Sort out the police, or make it fair for gang members.

[Alex Moreno]

I wasn’t going to make this suggestion, but it’s gotten to the point now where we need to have a full community discussion with staff and developers about how the server is going with the police at the moment.

Firstly we need to talk about how overpowered the police are compared to gangs, In any situation with firearms majority of the time gangs will use pistols, firearms will have a SIG with 250 rounds + a fuck tonne more in the safe on there vehicle,  not only is that overpowered it’s unrealistic but that’s besides the point,  police will have anywhere from 5 to 10 armour on there person at anytime + more in there vehicle,  and then head armour same detail with that.  I’ve named 3 items and already police have a massive advantage over any gang in any situation, and your argument will be well gangs can have rifles and smg’s and armour and head armour,  but it’s not the same, on police it’s all free, and they have a vending machine of a vehicle where they can keep re supplying, in the case of gangs we have 250 max and 5 or so armour. 
 

to fix the problem of police being overpowered, police should have a single shot rifle, not automatic, this would help make situations more fair for gangs.

snipers shouldn’t be shooting from an armoured helicopter, snipers should be shooting from a building that can be overrun by gangs to give gangs a fighting chance

if I’m not wrong firearms has 32 slots, gangs have a max cap of 25, and half the time most gangs sit on around 13-15 people each night, the whole of the firearms team responding to shots is ridiculous.

CTSFO is counter terrorism not counter gangs, never in my life have I s The n CTSFO gunning down gang members who are fighting eachother, but ok it’s a roleplay server

this being said 

SAS since when does SAS attack a gang because they have robbed a police station but again it’s a roleplay server

also the win mentality of police needs addressing,  they have a drone, a helicopter, firearms, they can check plates, make a evidence report, why do they need 20+ firearms to gun down a person with a weapon it’s pathetic.

im not the only person who thinks this needs addressing.

take it upon your selves to argue in the comments staff are probably going to delete this anyway but honestly we need to talk about it, otherwise you’ll only see police on the sever you won’t see any gangs, we all talk, we all have opinions, let us talk about how we feel about the server .

people pay money to play here I don’t get why but fair enough each to your own. It’s alright your guys developing it but what are you gona develop when everyone’s gone because you don’t listen to us.

 

[Alice]

yeah blackhawk is so high quality roleplay i really love roleplaying with the blackhawk

have you ever used a Jester during a gun fight???

 

[Baron Butcher]

The clue is in the sentence “being forced into it” we back off we do as they say, then next minute we are being gunned down and none of us open fire

How are you forced in to it? Its simply comes down to are you a threat to life/ did you aim a gun .... Yes? = shot.. No= not shot

 

[Alex Moreno]

have you ever used a Jester during a gun fight???

Mate the fucking police use jesters when there unmarked, they use rumpo’s snd everything this argument doesn’t mean shit 

 

[Samuel Shire]

Reading alot of these comments, the whole back in the day argument can't be used, your referencing a time when gangs diden't have full on street wars or if they did it was short and dispersed quickly, cops were mostly corrupt and flooded the streets with guns and there was hardly any firearms cops ans they weren't needed

Nowadays everyone has stockpiles of weapons, and is very much gun first then think later honestly the gangs have forced the police to need to up their tactics so all in all the gangs have brought this on themselves if they think the police are to tough on them now days

You might not Wana hear it but it's the truth

 

[Alex Moreno]

I can guarantee you it’s not always authorised, I’ve been in the Police for coming up 2 years now, and although I’ve never been an AFO, I can genuinely count on 1 hand how many times anything more than 100 bullets have been authorised.

That’s funny because I can’t, you don’t understand how many times I’ve seen and heard 250 is authorised

 

[DarrylYang]

OK apologies if I have missed something but how are you forced into shootouts?  Is running not an option? Surrender?  are you being forced to rob, assault, kidnap officers? 

Im sorry but if you dont want to get in a shoot out with the police dont give the police a reason we dont just go into situations and start shooting usualy there is a cause. 

Here is a situation of being forced into a gunfight by police  https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/1DRCDgeHZ_HwK0/d13379zTncNi?invite=cr-MSxZY24sMTM2NDU5MzUyLA 

Half the server are people who like to rp as crims and as you seen in the playcount its going downhill with how these feds act. They shut down any chance of crim RP and just want a shootout. 

 

[Baron Butcher]

That’s funny because I can’t, you don’t understand how many times I’ve seen and heard 250 is authorised

And how many of them times is it because a massive gang decides to play call of duty ingame. You have never been in firearms but yet you think you know how we work. You simply are wrong. Max ammo is used when police are getting battered/operation. Other than that we do not carry max

 

[Bren104]

This person gets it.

I could not agree more with this. 

I think we can all see from the above input by contributors that there has been a rapid decline in the substance of the argument. People have resulted to name calling and nasty belittling comments all because people are disagreeing with them and countering their arguments. Its childish and if you have anything productive to state as to your opinions on the matter, why are you resorting to school ground behaviour instead of continuing the discussion at hand?

 

[Alice]

Here is a situation of being forced into a gunfight by police

More accurately a situation of you pointing a gun at Police next to a hostage therefor creating a risk to life and as such leading to lethal force being taken.....

 

[Baron Butcher]

Here is a situation of being forced into a gunfight by police  https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/1DRCDgeHZ_HwK0/d13379zTncNi?invite=cr-MSxZY24sMTM2NDU5MzUyLA 

Half the server are people who like to rp as crims and as you seen in the playcount its going downhill with how these feds act. They shut down any chance of crim RP and just want a shootout. 

I do not know the content of the sit but just because you have a one hostage doesn't mean you are wrapped in a shield. 

 

[Alex Moreno]

Here is a situation of being forced into a gunfight by police  https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/1DRCDgeHZ_HwK0/d13379zTncNi?invite=cr-MSxZY24sMTM2NDU5MzUyLA 

Half the server are people who like to rp as crims and as you seen in the playcount its going downhill with how these feds act. They shut down any chance of crim RP and just want a shootout. 

This is a prime example, hostage situation and they didn’t even value the hostages life, just started shooting at the people robbing the bank,  it’s pathetic fuckin waste of time, how is anyone meant to enjoy the server if people in gangs can’t do anything without police forcing gunfights, raiding a bank while they have hostages and then shooting first inside the bank while a hostage is there

 

[Samuel Shire]

Here is a situation of being forced into a gunfight by police  https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/1DRCDgeHZ_HwK0/d13379zTncNi?invite=cr-MSxZY24sMTM2NDU5MzUyLA 

Half the server are people who like to rp as crims and as you seen in the playcount its going downhill with how these feds act. They shut down any chance of crim RP and just want a shootout. 

Why not have oh I dno 10 hostages, have them all lines up on their knees standing over them with guns ? This hostage doesn't seem like he was in any danger really

 

[DarrylYang]

I do not know the content of the sit but just because you have a one hostage doesn't mean you are wrapped in a shield. 

We had 2 hostages and were negotiating. Some feds just ignore it break into the roof see us and start shooting thats all. 

 

[Snuffles]

Definition of terrorism

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Hello mate. 

Not to be a dick or anything, but if you want to define terrorism, you should look at what the UK defines it as since it's a UK server. 

Here's link to prove this statement:
https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/terrorism
https://justice.org.uk/counter-terrorism-human-rights/
However, that's besides the point.

My 2 cents on the suggestion, and before anyone comments, I've only read the first page as of writing this.

Coming from a police POV, then I'd disagree. 
Police have rules in place in regard to all the items, which you've listed. These are as follows:
- Max of 150 AR/SMG ammo, unless max ammo have been authorized. 
- You can carry 1 helmet armor in your helmet, not on your person.
- If you carry an AR/SMG, you can only have 60 pistol bullets. 
- If you carry a bean bag, that substitutes the AR, and therefore allows for 100 pistol bullets.

As you've mentioned, police are designed to "always win" in the long run. However, gangs completely ignoring police, heck even telling them "We'll leave once we've shot the opposite site", means police eventually have to get involved. You're playing on a roleplay server, not a TDM or KOTH server. Quite frankly, if you're only true motive to play is to shoot a rival gang, and start a gang war over someone telling your online girlfriend she's as pretty as a cow's backside, then this is the wrong server for you.
 

if I’m not wrong firearms has 32 slots, gangs have a max cap of 25, and half the time most gangs sit on around 13-15 people each night, the whole of the firearms team responding to shots is ridiculous.

The firearms cap is higher but is also mandated based on certain criteria. And, at no point have we had 32 firearms on duty at the same time. The highest I've seen is 15-18 during operations.

SAS since when does SAS attack a gang because they have robbed a police station but again it’s a roleplay server

Right. A lot of background knowledge is missing here.

SAS is a staff thing. It's requested by POLCOM and is used when a staff lead+ says yes to it. The reason I know it was because gangs got into a trend of jumping on at 3 AM, kidnapping an INS+, and then forcing him to pull guns out from the evidence locker with a bare minimum RP. Hence why it was locked, so people could only put stuff in, not out. 

also the win mentality of police needs addressing,  they have a drone, a helicopter, firearms, they can check plates, make a evidence report, why do they need 20+ firearms to gun down a person with a weapon it’s pathetic.

Right. Once again, something where some points are missing or have been left out, who knows?

Yes, police are designed to win. They are funded by the government and have a way larger budget than your average gangs, etc. However, you also need to see it from a police POV. Do you really expect police to sit and watch 2 gangs shoot each other when they deliberately tell police they'll leave once they've killed the other gang? No? Yes?
However, police have these tools to use them, so why wouldn't they? And, trust me on this, both CID and MOCU do a lot of intel gathering and seize millions in a month, so it does get used. If you want numbers for what MOCU has seized this year alone, feel free to ask and I'll provide it.

people pay money to play here I don’t get why but fair enough each to your own. It’s alright your guys developing it but what are you gona develop when everyone’s gone because you don’t listen to us.

That's just pure misinformation. People don't pay to play here, and never have, and never will. People donate because they want to, not because they're forced to. This community has always been funded by its players, and will always continue to be so. So, the money they have are donated, because people want to, not because they have to.

to fix the problem of police being overpowered, police should have a single shot rifle, not automatic, this would help make situations more fair for gangs.

And, gangs should only have melee weapons. See what I did there?
If you want police to have single-shot rifles, that's fine. But, then gangs shouldn't have access to combat PDWs, Assault rifles, Service rifles, etc. At this point, the police are fighting a militia, not a gang. So, if gangs started acting like a gang and not a Colombian drug cartel, then it might be worth discussing. But given the current state of the server, I'd rather we not make it worse, okay?

but it’s gotten to the point now where we need to have a full community discussion with staff and developers about how the server is going with the police at the moment.

We've tried this in the past, and it's made it better for a week or two, but it just reverts back to its old self.  Gang leads and faction leads have a direct way of messaging each other, and both sides are doing their best to make it more fair and fun for everyone, but it's hit or miss.                                                                                          
 

This is just my opinion and not a staff opinion.

 

[Alex Moreno]

More accurately a situation of you pointing a gun at Police next to a hostage therefor creating a risk to life and as such leading to lethal force being taken.....

If the weapon wasn’t aimed at the hostages police would have just shot them and said they didn’t pose a direct threat to the hostages and they pounced on the opportunity, the fact you think this is the right thing to do, is pathetic

 

[Avion Solar]

More accurately a situation of you pointing a gun at Police next to a hostage therefor creating a risk to life and as such leading to lethal force being taken.....

Want just about to say that they're robbing a bank as well with guns

 

[Baron Butcher]

This is a prime example, hostage situation and they didn’t even value the hostages life, just started shooting at the people robbing the bank,  it’s pathetic fuckin waste of time, how is anyone meant to enjoy the server if people in gangs can’t do anything without police forcing gunfights, raiding a bank while they have hostages and then shooting first inside the bank while a hostage is there

They have one hostage in the main bank, it doesn't mean we have to agree and listen to everything you say.. If you wanna have more leverage get more hostages. so we don't breach. act rp and do not go " no npas, spikes" Lets see a clip of the whole situation and see how it really went shall we ?> 

 

[Scott]

The issue is contingent on winning, as is with everything. 

I don't think gangs realise just how powerful they are. Without fail, any gang which enters a gunfight with police that have strong numbers and weaponry (Revolvers and Marksman Pistols seem to be the favourite) will every single time down all police on foot in a gunfight. Every-single-time. Most gunfights, especially toward the end, exists solely as a time to recover our own and ensure the last couple remaining are safe whilst they do so. 

Gangs are insanely good at what they do and their strategies when taking on the police, but you think we have the upper hand due to 2 assets (We do when it comes to these 2 assets, the countering capabilites exist but are extremely difficut). 99 & MRAP. These two function and have only functioned as a way to ensure police survive in reaction to a gunfight with police. Back when we didn't or couldn't deploy them, we'd get royally fucked by any gang with common sense & numbers. 

That being said, we do deploy these 2 proactively as a deterrant or give us the upper hand in engaging a gang or group if we wish to conduct some policing (S&S etc.) or action some warrants, depends on the situation. But mostly, these assets are deployed as a reactionary force and when doing so, they are there to ensure we survive. Without it, you would quite literally wipe the floor with us.

I'll also give you good examples of how these 2 "OP" assets have been countered/almost countered.

MRAP; 229 fought the MRAP. They took its tires, then focused on flipping it by pushing/ramming it off of a cliff or other such height where it will land on it's side/roof. They successfully did this and countered it. It is absolutely possible, difficult but possible. Also depends on the locale which will make this harder or easier. It is possible. Or push it into water, wouldn't fair well whilst its occupants are drowning.

99; Ballas fought 99, with the sniper rifle in it. They did this by being in a helicopter, a few of them armed with revolvers and marskmans, and shot the living shit out of the helicopter & the guy with the rifle. It doesn't take much to force 99 to pull off, and another helicopter is the best way to achieve this. Now, will you be able to down the guy with the rifle, possibly, Aztecas have achieved it in the past but it's moreso reliant on taking advantage of the mistakes made by the pilot such as flying too low to the ground. 

You're probably thinking, "What about QRA and their jets, wont they shoot us down" - Yes they will, but they're not around 24/7. You might get lucky, you might not. The windows on 99, are also not bulletproof or bullet resistant. They smash, easily. If you're a cracking shot, it is entirely possible to shoot the pilot and down them, however, not an easy task. 

Now, these counters aren't easy. But I think that's by design. If you're going to take on the police, be prepared for the MRAP and 99 being deployed - this should be an expectation. Be ready to try and counter one or both, in what order and how you're going to achieve this. If you sink some time and planning into the question of "How can we deal with them?", you might find your fights with police could end up shifting to your side if planned and executed properly. 


I also think it's good to point out the difference between a gang vs gang fight and a gang vs police.

If two gangs are going at it, police will and always should issue the warnings to disperse and if gangs comply, the police will quite simply leave you alone. Does this mean they won't action the intelligence later on that day or the next day, or pass it forward to CID to further their investigations, no. But it will grant you all a period of time to stash your guns and cars away before we come knocking.

If it's a gang fighting the police, you will find no mercy being shown. I'd expect the same from the gangs fighting us as well. We won't let you drive off or give you a chance to disperse if you've taken the conscious decision to engage the police. If you're going to engage the police, be it in an ambush or otherwise, be absolutely prepared. 

If it was an accident, as has been seen previous with Aztecas, police will respond in kind, however if you have the contact details you might be able to discuss with officers on the ground to cease fire assuming a fair and reasonable understanding can be reached - personally, if this was to happen and the misfire was understandable, if they reach out and say 'Look, my guys shot one of yours accidentally, we didn't mean to, can we stop shooting as we both know it won't end well for either of us'. Odds are you might find the police agree and stop shooting. Police stop shooting what??? I thought they were all fraggers!!! It is worth highlighting, not all share the same opinion as me and I don't have the final say on situations so there isn't a guarantee, but I'd hope if this were to happen we can resolve it without bullets.

TL;DR - Gangs do much better against the police than you think. Be prepared to counter the MRAP and 99, it is difficult but possible, maybe worth knocking some heads together and coming up with a plan. If a gang is fighting a gang, we have specific tactics designed to give both sides the opportunities to disperse, if you comply, you'll find police more willing to engage and give you more chances in future. If a gang fights police, be 100% prepared, show no mercy and good luck to the winner.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

 

[Alex Moreno]

Why not have oh I dno 10 hostages, have them all lines up on their knees standing over them with guns ? This hostage doesn't seem like he was in any danger really

So now you lot are contradicting you selves because one is saying pointing a weapon is a direct threat and should have raided and the other is saying no weapon pointed not a direct threat and then pounced on the opportunity,  this is the win mentality we are trying to talk about 

Want just about to say that they're robbing a bank as well with guns

So you disregard the hostage and out his life at risk?? Roger I’ll remember to rob the bank with my hands and put the hostage outside next time 

 

[DarrylYang]

The whole point is we where negotiating with the feds. Some feds just ignore it and want a gunfight go in gunsblazing shooting everyone including hostages.