Sort out the police, or make it fair for gang members.

[Alex Moreno]

I wasn’t going to make this suggestion, but it’s gotten to the point now where we need to have a full community discussion with staff and developers about how the server is going with the police at the moment.

Firstly we need to talk about how overpowered the police are compared to gangs, In any situation with firearms majority of the time gangs will use pistols, firearms will have a SIG with 250 rounds + a fuck tonne more in the safe on there vehicle,  not only is that overpowered it’s unrealistic but that’s besides the point,  police will have anywhere from 5 to 10 armour on there person at anytime + more in there vehicle,  and then head armour same detail with that.  I’ve named 3 items and already police have a massive advantage over any gang in any situation, and your argument will be well gangs can have rifles and smg’s and armour and head armour,  but it’s not the same, on police it’s all free, and they have a vending machine of a vehicle where they can keep re supplying, in the case of gangs we have 250 max and 5 or so armour. 
 

to fix the problem of police being overpowered, police should have a single shot rifle, not automatic, this would help make situations more fair for gangs.

snipers shouldn’t be shooting from an armoured helicopter, snipers should be shooting from a building that can be overrun by gangs to give gangs a fighting chance

if I’m not wrong firearms has 32 slots, gangs have a max cap of 25, and half the time most gangs sit on around 13-15 people each night, the whole of the firearms team responding to shots is ridiculous.

CTSFO is counter terrorism not counter gangs, never in my life have I s The n CTSFO gunning down gang members who are fighting eachother, but ok it’s a roleplay server

this being said 

SAS since when does SAS attack a gang because they have robbed a police station but again it’s a roleplay server

also the win mentality of police needs addressing,  they have a drone, a helicopter, firearms, they can check plates, make a evidence report, why do they need 20+ firearms to gun down a person with a weapon it’s pathetic.

im not the only person who thinks this needs addressing.

take it upon your selves to argue in the comments staff are probably going to delete this anyway but honestly we need to talk about it, otherwise you’ll only see police on the sever you won’t see any gangs, we all talk, we all have opinions, let us talk about how we feel about the server .

people pay money to play here I don’t get why but fair enough each to your own. It’s alright your guys developing it but what are you gona develop when everyone’s gone because you don’t listen to us.

 

[zycho]

I do not know the content of the sit but just because you have a one hostage doesn't mean you are wrapped in a shield. 

Lol where is the roleplay even staff stepped in saying what happened was ridiculous, and may i add that staff was involved in that situation and the excuse for doing what they did was because " we are bored with the same bank rp" go make a new character then, like me saying i am fed up of police coming ballas turf baiting for a fight so i am going to rdm everyone makes 0 sense.  Do me a favour if you do not have a crim character go make one try get 1 war car and 1 gun and let me know how you get on because if its not from the vending machine at PD you guys wont "roleplay" to make money and progress your character. ( dont tell me you got a crim and sit outside AE all day :/)

 

[Snuffles]

Right. Let's stop this argument about negotiations and the bank. You've made your point. Any further comments about it will be removed.

 

[Baron Butcher]

We had 2 hostages and were negotiating. Some feds just ignore it break into the roof see us and start shooting thats all. 

Can we see the full clip?

 

[Alex Moreno]

The issue is contingent on winning, as is with everything. 

I don't think gangs realise just how powerful they are. Without fail, any gang which enters a gunfight with police that have strong numbers and weaponry (Revolvers and Marksman Pistols seem to be the favourite) will every single time down all police on foot in a gunfight. Every-single-time. Most gunfights, especially toward the end, exists solely as a time to recover our own and ensure the last couple remaining are safe whilst they do so. 

Gangs are insanely good at what they do and their strategies when taking on the police, but you think we have the upper hand due to 2 assets (We do when it comes to these 2 assets, the countering capabilites exist but are extremely difficut). 99 & MRAP. These two function and have only functioned as a way to ensure police survive in reaction to a gunfight with police. Back when we didn't or couldn't deploy them, we'd get royally fucked by any gang with common sense & numbers. 

That being said, we do deploy these 2 proactively as a deterrant or give us the upper hand in engaging a gang or group if we wish to conduct some policing (S&S etc.) or action some warrants, depends on the situation. But mostly, these assets are deployed as a reactionary force and when doing so, they are there to ensure we survive. Without it, you would quite literally wipe the floor with us.

I'll also give you good examples of how these 2 "OP" assets have been countered/almost countered.

MRAP; 229 fought the MRAP. They took its tires, then focused on flipping it by pushing/ramming it off of a cliff or other such height where it will land on it's side/roof. They successfully did this and countered it. It is absolutely possible, difficult but possible. Also depends on the locale which will make this harder or easier. It is possible. Or push it into water, wouldn't fair well whilst its occupants are drowning.

99; Ballas fought 99, with the sniper rifle in it. They did this by being in a helicopter, a few of them armed with revolvers and marskmans, and shot the living shit out of the helicopter & the guy with the rifle. It doesn't take much to force 99 to pull off, and another helicopter is the best way to achieve this. Now, will you be able to down the guy with the rifle, possibly, Aztecas have achieved it in the past but it's moreso reliant on taking advantage of the mistakes made by the pilot such as flying too low to the ground. 

You're probably thinking, "What about QRA and their jets, wont they shoot us down" - Yes they will, but they're not around 24/7. You might get lucky, you might not. The windows on 99, are also not bulletproof or bullet resistant. They smash, easily. If you're a cracking shot, it is entirely possible to shoot the pilot and down them, however, not an easy task. 

Now, these counters aren't easy. But I think that's by design. If you're going to take on the police, be prepared for the MRAP and 99 being deployed - this should be an expectation. Be ready to try and counter one or both, in what order and how you're going to achieve this. If you sink some time and planning into the question of "How can we deal with them?", you might find your fights with police could end up shifting to your side if planned and executed properly. 


I also think it's good to point out the difference between a gang vs gang fight and a gang vs police.

If two gangs are going at it, police will and always should issue the warnings to disperse and if gangs comply, the police will quite simply leave you alone. Does this mean they won't action the intelligence later on that day or the next day, or pass it forward to CID to further their investigations, no. But it will grant you all a period of time to stash your guns and cars away before we come knocking.

If it's a gang fighting the police, you will find no mercy being shown. I'd expect the same from the gangs fighting us as well. We won't let you drive off or give you a chance to disperse if you've taken the conscious decision to engage the police. If you're going to engage the police, be it in an ambush or otherwise, be absolutely prepared. 

If it was an accident, as has been seen previous with Aztecas, police will respond in kind, however if you have the contact details you might be able to discuss with officers on the ground to cease fire assuming a fair and reasonable understanding can be reached - personally, if this was to happen and the misfire was understandable, if they reach out and say 'Look, my guys shot one of yours accidentally, we didn't mean to, can we stop shooting as we both know it won't end well for either of us'. Odds are you might find the police agree and stop shooting. Police stop shooting what??? I thought they were all fraggers!!! It is worth highlighting, not all share the same opinion as me and I don't have the final say on situations so there isn't a guarantee, but I'd hope if this were to happen we can resolve it without bullets.

TL;DR - Gangs do much better against the police than you think. Be prepared to counter the MRAP and 99, it is difficult but possible, maybe worth knocking some heads together and coming up with a plan. If a gang is fighting a gang, we have specific tactics designed to give both sides the opportunities to disperse, if you comply, you'll find police more willing to engage and give you more chances in future. If a gang fights police, be 100% prepared, show no mercy and good luck to the winner.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

I respect what your saying Scott lad I do,  but the weapons in question cost a lot of money, it takes an hour to make 100k if your lucky, a marky cost 750k sometimes, that’s 7 and a half hours to grind just for that gun excluding ammo and armour and all the other stuff you loose when you die,   It might be overpowered yes, but it’s a big loss when it’s gone, not only that if you miss your shot it takes approximately 3-5 seconds to shoot again.

again police get there equipment for free and have unlimited of it so it’s not a major factor,  gangs arnt overpowered because the amount of weapons you guys have in the streets instantly outnumbers ours normal response officers can have a glock,  again a sniper can be used in a helicopter and it’ll just pick off the gang members like it does every time, we are not overpowered, I just think everybody needs to have a proper chat rather than arguing in a suggestions

 

[DarrylYang]

Can we see the full clip?

dont have it since it was a while ago but after a liason staff let us all go and lets u keep our money and guns cause it was piss poor from the feds. its just an example of many situations I had with police and honestly made me quit the server for now till feds sort everything out and actually want to roleplay. 

 

[ReggieW]

Police mains in this thread claim they give plenty of warnings. For the past few days they have chased us around the entire map for hours on end until they finally get a gunfight. Just yesterday they chased a vehicle until it resulted in a gunfight and then after they lost it, they followed me in the blackhawk instantly opening fire and breaking NLR with the entire PD coming back to the gunfight, this time in bulletproof cars etc.

You CANNOT claim that because things need to be 'authed' that it makes it not as common as there is ALWAYS someone around that can. Too many people can auth things like this, hell, if you even punch a cop you see the blackhawk and MRAP out nowadays.

'Police can only carry a certain amount of helmets and ammo' - Okay but there are 3 PDs in the city alone, and one in each other major location, they will just return to the closest PD and re-arm, that makes literally NO difference.

 

[Samuel Shire]

So now you lot are contradicting you selves because one is saying pointing a weapon is a direct threat and should have raided and the other is saying no weapon pointed not a direct threat and then pounced on the opportunity,  this is the win mentality we are trying to talk about 

So you disregard the hostage and out his life at risk?? Roger I’ll remember to rob the bank with my hands and put the hostage outside next time 

I'll point out I'm not in Police my time in the server I have been

Viking - aztek hang around - officer in TFA - lost hang around then ended up as G6 after having all my memory's wiped of all gang related stuff so I'm makeing a viewers point of 1/2 hostages seems abit light seeing that you would know the response to a bank robbery

 

[Alex Moreno]

Right. Let's stop this argument about negotiations and the bank. You've made your point. Any further comments about it will be removed.

I agree it needs to stop mate but no one is seeing where we are coming from, it’s not on, we are trying to enjoy the server and then the whole situation just gets fucked off and police can bypass the hostages life?? 

 

[Alex Moreno]

I'll point out I'm not in Police my time in the server I have been

Viking - aztek hang around - officer in TFA - lost hang around then ended up as G6 after having all my memory's wiped of all gang related stuff so I'm makeing a viewers point of 1/2 hostages seems abit light seeing that you would know the response to a bank robbery

The point of them situations is so police and gangs can have a good situation, enjoy roleplay and don’t care about win or loose,   If the roleplay is good no one cares if they loose, but that was fuckin stupid and you can’t deny it

 

[Snuffles]

I agree it needs to stop mate but no one is seeing where we are coming from, it’s not on, we are trying to enjoy the server and then the whole situation just gets fucked off and police can bypass the hostages life?? 

Right. Each hostage situation is different. So, one situation can't be used to describe the actions of the rest.

 

[Alex Moreno]

Thank you for the insults, nice to know you're not capable of having a normal discussion. But yes I have indeed read the thread quite thoroughly and i can confidently say it appears to be just you or a very small percentage arguing you are "forced" into shootouts. I find it very very very hard to believe the police actively chase you down, Purposely plan to corner you in a place where there is NO ESCAPE AT ALL leaving you with no other option to fight and would argue I'm sure in 80% of the situations that have clearly left you quite unhappy you probably could have escaped if you planned it and not stuck around for a gunfight.

Would you like videos? Because I’m sure everyone has a lot more, have you seen the one of the bank situation?

 

[__saiint__]

I'm not going to say much, but I will say this. The police are not a gang, the police are here for a different purpose to gangs. Police provide RP through preventing and combatting crime, gangs don't like it because they lose items and it bruises their ego... Gangs will try and push their luck with fully armed police and kick off when they lose... This is a roleplay server at the end of the day, if you hang around long enough for police to show up, that's your own fault if things don't turn out the way you want them to. If gangs weren't constantly trying to war the police and just stuck to more realistic and RP friendly ways of attacking each other - 99, the MRAP and CTSFO wouldn't be deployed so much. When I'm on as police I love the occasional firefight don't get me wrong - but every man and his dog just wants to dome each other atm. When was the last time gangs had a knife fight? maybe try playing smart. I play both sides, and quite honestly I have no idea why people are complaining, if you just want to gang war and frag each other in broad daylight with no repercussions is roleplay your thing? On the opposing side, I can understand the frustration, as sometimes it may seem like the police arrive too quickly - but as far as I see it, that's just bad luck and I enjoy the aspect that sometimes, stuff just don't work out the way I want it to. This is a great community, and arguing amongst ourselves is pointless, RP is RP - sometimes it doesn't happen the way we want it to but that's the fun.

 

[Alex Moreno]

Right. Each hostage situation is different. So, one situation can't be used to describe the actions of the rest.

But do you think police ignoring the hostage is a good idea??  Because I can’t lie that hostage was shot by police in that situation,  that hostage could sue the police for a fuck tonne, not only that but if it was real life your playing with a man’s life.  I just want a honest answer and not one that’s gona make it seem like what the police done was good roleplay??  I understand where your coming from but I don’t think you understand where we are 

 

[ReggieW]

Gone are the days of police showing up and letting gangs fight for a certain amount of time, only intervening when either one side has lost or it's gone on for like an hour. They used to use the MRAP as a threat and as a dispersal tactic with the sirens etc. Now, you can't even have a fight in paleto without the first car showing up telling you to leave or they'll open fire within 2 minutes. Things have changed and none of it is for the better.

 

[zycho]

I'm not going to say much, but I will say this. The police are not a gang, the police are here for a different purpose to gangs. Police provide RP through preventing and combatting crime, gangs don't like it because they lose items and it bruises their ego... Gangs will try and push their luck with fully armed police and kick off when they lose... This is a roleplay server at the end of the day, if you hang around long enough for police to show up, that's your own fault if things don't turn out the way you want them to. If gangs weren't constantly trying to war the police and just stuck to more realistic and RP friendly ways of attacking each other - 99, the MRAP and CTSFO wouldn't be deployed so much. When I'm on as police I love the occasional firefight don't get me wrong - but every man and his dog just wants to dome each other atm. When was the last time gangs had a knife fight? maybe try playing smart. I play both sides, and quite honestly I have no idea why people are complaining, if you just want to gang war and frag each other in broad daylight with no repercussions is roleplay your thing? On the opposing side, I can understand the frustration, as sometimes it may seem like the police arrive too quickly - but as far as I see it, that's just bad luck and I enjoy the aspect that sometimes, stuff just don't work out the way I want it to. This is a great community, and arguing amongst ourselves is pointless, RP is RP - sometimes it doesn't happen the way we want it to but that's the fun.

mate we don't give a shit about the guns we give a shit about how we lost them same way you don't give a shit about your police issued gun but hate being treated like a vending machine 

 

[Alex Moreno]

Gone are the days of police showing up and letting gangs fight for a certain amount of time, only intervening when either one side has lost or it's gone on for like an hour. They used to use the MRAP as a threat and as a dispersal tactic with the sirens etc. Now, you can't even have a fight in paleto without the first car showing up telling you to leave or they'll open fire within 2 minutes. Things have changed and none of it is for the better.

I agree mate

 

[Samuel Shire]

I'm not going to say much, but I will say this. The police are not a gang, the police are here for a different purpose to gangs. Police provide RP through preventing and combatting crime, gangs don't like it because they lose items and it bruises their ego... Gangs will try and push their luck with fully armed police and kick off when they lose... This is a roleplay server at the end of the day, if you hang around long enough for police to show up, that's your own fault if things don't turn out the way you want them to. If gangs weren't constantly trying to war the police and just stuck to more realistic and RP friendly ways of attacking each other - 99, the MRAP and CTSFO wouldn't be deployed so much. When I'm on as police I love the occasional firefight don't get me wrong - but every man and his dog just wants to dome each other atm. When was the last time gangs had a knife fight? maybe try playing smart. I play both sides, and quite honestly I have no idea why people are complaining, if you just want to gang war and frag each other in broad daylight with no repercussions is roleplay your thing? On the opposing side, I can understand the frustration, as sometimes it may seem like the police arrive too quickly - but as far as I see it, that's just bad luck and I enjoy the aspect that sometimes, stuff just don't work out the way I want it to. This is a great community, and arguing amongst ourselves is pointless, RP is RP - sometimes it doesn't happen the way we want it to but that's the fun.

I think it was @Edwago - R Hendersonhad some nice clips of ballas in the back of a Benson with bats on a drive over to grove ? Those kinda fights look fun as hell and they are, as TFA we went up against the hustlers and all we had was machete, much more fun than guns but yea a bit off topic from me

 

[Scott]

I respect what your saying Scott lad I do,  but the weapons in question cost a lot of money, it takes an hour to make 100k if your lucky, a marky cost 750k sometimes, that’s 7 and a half hours to grind just for that gun excluding ammo and armour and all the other stuff you loose when you die,   It might be overpowered yes, but it’s a big loss when it’s gone, not only that if you miss your shot it takes approximately 3-5 seconds to shoot again.

again police get there equipment for free and have unlimited of it so it’s not a major factor,  gangs arnt overpowered because the amount of weapons you guys have in the streets instantly outnumbers ours normal response officers can have a glock,  again a sniper can be used in a helicopter and it’ll just pick off the gang members like it does every time, we are not overpowered, I just think everybody needs to have a proper chat rather than arguing in a suggestions

Oh I absolutely agree the grinding part of it is hard. Selling drugs or the daily trips to the mine, smeltery rinse repeat - the economy IMO is fucked, need a wipe, but that besides the point. At the same time though, it's a UK server, getting guns shouldn't be easy. Even if the stockpiles are fucking huge - again, the economy. It's fucked.

I understand it's not easy, but overall, you guys do steamroll us and fairplay to you all  . Just need those extra steps and planning, and you could do some real damage. As I said though, seems it is by design. There are also things in the works AFAIK but I cannot comment, time will tell.

We do get our equipment for "free", it costs money but from the police budget. I never said you're overpowered, but you are powerful, gangs have many tactics they can employ. The point overall is it shouldn't be easy. If you're prepared, you'll fair much better, if you aren't. You'll get fucked. Same goes for the police if they aren't prepared.



I'm glad some are willing to have a constructive debate, but please everyone reading, don't let it devolve into a cesspit of aids and cope. We're all adults, let's behave like it. Goes for both sides  

Also hostage situations are a whole other kettle of fish, worth keeping it on topic my lovely gents and ladies.

 

[JordanDMK]

The Police in many ways will always have the upper hand. It will always be difficult to fully compare the game to real life with its limitations. The community relys on the player base to give back as good as they get.

I will say from experience that I've had a lot more cops NVL than gang members, I understand from police perspective why sometimes they do it and the repercussions that can follow if police do not follow their duty but that is down to staff and their leniency on the members who want to be in the police.

The common arguement I am seeing here is that people are saying avoid the police in general or leave before they arrive. That is a lot easier said than done considering altercations last longer than expected and often times you more likely going to die trying to run away than trying to stay with everyone else. It makes sense to value your life aswell as the lives of those around you. 

It is true that police do not have to grind for anything and often don't have to worry about going into combat situations. I do however find it unrealistic when a few cop cars drive into a middle of a combat situation to defuse the situation. In my eyes this is NVL to throw yourself into the battlefield. In my opinion police should only move in when the combat has died down or if the extent of the battle is reaching further than the gang members at war (If civilians start getting injured) 

The criminal life can be played in multiple ways unfortuately the meta of the server is to be loud. This could be because of the economy, personal ego's or even just the lack of forward thinking. 

To summaries I do think police should have the upper hand but often step in too soon to allow the player base to have some achievement given the grind required to reach some of these situations they find themselves in. Police can always combat crime without guns via raiding, scrapping cars and collecting infomation this is often done but is it done enough?

 

[Snuffles]

But do you think police ignoring the hostage is a good idea??  Because I can’t lie that hostage was shot by police in that situation,  that hostage could sue the police for a fuck tonne, not only that but if it was real life your playing with a man’s life.  I just want a honest answer and not one that’s gona make it seem like what the police done was good roleplay??  I understand where your coming from but I don’t think you understand where we are 

Mate. I fully understand where you're coming from, having just read and deleted comments there to cause issues and/or not relevant to the suggestion.

The general attitude throughout this entire suggestion is appalling. And that goes for both sides. If you can't have a civil conversation, then yes, I'll just lock this suggestion till people learn how to act maturely. 

Once again, I'm not gonna comment on a situation I wasn't part of, nor do I feel any need to do so.