- Location
- London
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- Thread starter Wilco
- Start date
Rossss
The Flying Scotsman
- Location
- Scotland
- Location
- London
Boston Broiler
Banned
So Rebels/UNMC can still join?
If there are limited Police and Rebels left and the gun fight goes stale then 5 minutes passes, you could essentially continue moving gold and the police would have to send someone in to re-initiate even though you are still in the HM? I feel this should be increased to ten minutes as I have been in situations before where Police have waited five minutes for back up to return to push as a larger group on a few occasions and this could get confusing resulting in RDM accusations being thrown around.
This is going to limit everyone's experience within playing the game as raiding these bases are becoming a large part of the game and finding Staff who are already at times hard to get hold of for support, to then take time away from either helping others or monitoring activity on the Server I feel there needs to be some form of mechanic which implements a cool down or something to the door if this could be coded in so that it can only be raided when X amount of players are online or once per X amount of hours, I understand this is to prevent the hop on situation from both sides of the raids due to recent events and disputes, and once the attack has started people need to use common sense and not hop on to help to tip the scale.
@CI Joe
That specific example was when there was 10-15 Rebels with one life vs 30 Police with infinite lives it was the other way around with Police gaining information via meta-gaming, and yes there hasn't been issues until recently when there's the same group of people coming on purely for the HM gun fight and then going off once its over and giving zero role play with anyone even when shooting has stopped and downed players are trying to interact. I personally feel the Police force has gotten larger over recent months and the resistance for Rebels in gun fights has gotten larger, and the gear lately isn't balanced as higher ups are giving out 7.62's to low ranked officers when a lot of rebels have access but don't use these due to cost as well as Hunters, rubber bullets, and flash bangs which we don't have access to, its arguable that we have the upper hand and have the defensive position yet when you guys come back every 15 minutes with your numbers you eventually know where each of us are and just flash us and rush us with no value for your lives. I would recommend when you got on Police holiday to tag along with a rebel group for a HM and see how it is for us from our perspective, I'm sure you may have done one before but see how much planning goes into some of these and how hard they can be.
@Vladic Ka What are the rules with non gang/HM scenarios, if a large group of Rebels/Police are doing something or are in a gun fight lets say for example at Kavala drug dealer or a gun fight somewhere, can players joining the server head towards and get involved?
Daniel 2sec
Well-known member
(7.2.5) You may not write in sidechat that you are robbing the bank. This is your operation with the friends/members that are there with you. You may not call for backup, only those on site at the beginning of the heist may take part. The UNMC or Police may return after NLR timer is up however non-whitelisted civilians may not.
YoCo
Master Criminal
- Location
- London
Funny you say this, tried to do one yesterday. Spent over an hour roleplaying, only for you to come in and order the bomb to be disarmed.
If people wonder why RP HM's are so rare, its because you need a 20 page document and a cop to go along with it to even have a chance to be rewarded.
I could make over a mil from iron runs in under an hour, and god forbid I ask for 10 gold bars in return for an hours RP.
in terms of the rules, I think a nice idea to stop all hop ons would be to implement the rule of no combat within 15 minutes of logging on (same cooldown as after getting revived) Applicable to all factions, because really and truly, if you want to spawn in and be shooting within 15 minutes you should just play TDM
G
GHOSTK1LL3R
Guest
I completely agree, it's a norm on this server where you are expected to write a document...
ya boy joe
Well-known member
- Location
- Durham, Durham City
First of all, in response to what you said related to my point, this has always been the case for HMs for around 2 years. Rebels prepare, police login to assist for the best response possible, as it would be in real life, yet for the most part rebels would still manage to win HM treasuries, so only one thing changed. It seems when all the new gangs appeared, complaints were the preferred method of combat and it's shifted the balance, furthermore, the police is the smallest it's been for quite awhile and our average weapon is a 5.56 with the exception of 6.5 on some higher ranks, when you have 7.62 available always we're apparently giving anyone 7.62s? Flashbangs have been irrelevant with people constantly lagging about recently, the one thing that wins us HMs is simply the fact that you're not using the defensive advantage you have available. You're the biggest gang by far, but no complaints came in after you got away with the truck one time, only after you lost, furthermore, on police holiday I've never lost a HM with around 15 rebels vs 40 cops, I'm sure I could dig up our old money trackers to prove it. In conclusion, it was completely fine how it was and you shouldn't be attempting a HM without expecting the most amount of resistance possible and you have the weapon advantage, positioning advantage, and overall advantage from the get-go, now with a minimum of 10 cops, but you complain that it's unfair when more come VS the amount of rebels you have. I even recall you had 28 rebels on one HM, the one you got away with one truck. Numbers aren't and never have been the issue, it's how you conduct yourself in the operation, something AR have been able to do very well, resulting in the outcome we want, but now our only defense are the 10 CSOs and PCSOs currently available, so, that's fun.
TL
R: you have the defensive advantage, better positions and weapons and you shouldn't expect them to be easy if you don't conduct yourself properly. HMs have been done with 15 rebels vs 40 cops and there were no issues, but now when a select example is shown, action is taken to something which hasn't been an issue for 2 years or more.This has never been the case, we've even been told several times by police command in our meeting 'if they provide bad RP, but have a great document, they won't get anything. Roleplay isn't tabbing out to read a document, it's how you conduct yourself in game. If they provide great RP with little to no document, then permit them an appropriate amount.', therefore, a mix of both is normally best, but RP will always come first over a document
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Boston Broiler
Banned
@CI Joe
Complaints were made regarding this but in a way to avoid any player reports being done but nothing was being done about it, you cant see side chat, every time we done a HM or another gang it would flood with people commenting about how many police were joining, where were they coming from? The other server or being messaged on team speak and purely coming on for the gun fight then leaving, they should go and play TDM, the complaints have hopefully shifted the balance and will hopefully now make it fair for both sides, even if its 15 Rebels vs 10 Police, I don't understand how that still isn't Police sided, I would happily if allowed come and do a HM as a Police with what ever gear layout you give to see it from your perspective and I encourage you to do the same.
We have never done a HM with more than 20 people to my knowledge because it wouldn't be worthwhile its typically 10-18, so you must be thinking of another gang? HM's have always been that case which I am in complete agreement with but the information players are getting to respond to the HM is via an external source and its meta-gaming the same people were just dropping what they were doing on Server 1 which as a white list faction is poor as it takes a part of the game play away from people on the other Server who want to interact with cops but they can't because they've gone off to have a 2 hour gun fight. We have gotten away countless times in a 10v30 gun fight but I feel you are missing the problem here, which I've just stated, Police were complaining that people were logging on and going to their gang bases when they were setting up for a raid, but that's not acceptable? Tell me what the difference is? There needs to be ground rules that everyone understands and can abide to which is what has happened, HM's quality as everyone from what I can see have been going downhill fast.
Regarding the weapons you use, that's a different issues which I'm aware is being addressed separately within the Police I have not seen in the past few weeks seen many Police at a HM without a MX/MK18/MK1 which is the same as what we are using apart from the access to some better scopes which you guys have and the fact that your gear is also, free... When we do HMs we're arriving with millions of gear and vehicles between us which we risk, I just wanted to mention that for possibly the third time, but we are slightly side tracking here.
Police's go to response is 'Defensive advantage' that is completely true, although you guys come back... So what's the advantage to that when you die and know where from then come back fifteen minutes later with full knowledge of where you died from and just wait in a bush far away waiting for us to peek at someone for you to kill us the advantage is lost when you guys come back.
Complaints were made regarding this but in a way to avoid any player reports being done but nothing was being done about it, you cant see side chat, every time we done a HM or another gang it would flood with people commenting about how many police were joining, where were they coming from? The other server or being messaged on team speak and purely coming on for the gun fight then leaving, they should go and play TDM, the complaints have hopefully shifted the balance and will hopefully now make it fair for both sides, even if its 15 Rebels vs 10 Police, I don't understand how that still isn't Police sided, I would happily if allowed come and do a HM as a Police with what ever gear layout you give to see it from your perspective and I encourage you to do the same.
We have never done a HM with more than 20 people to my knowledge because it wouldn't be worthwhile its typically 10-18, so you must be thinking of another gang? HM's have always been that case which I am in complete agreement with but the information players are getting to respond to the HM is via an external source and its meta-gaming the same people were just dropping what they were doing on Server 1 which as a white list faction is poor as it takes a part of the game play away from people on the other Server who want to interact with cops but they can't because they've gone off to have a 2 hour gun fight. We have gotten away countless times in a 10v30 gun fight but I feel you are missing the problem here, which I've just stated, Police were complaining that people were logging on and going to their gang bases when they were setting up for a raid, but that's not acceptable? Tell me what the difference is? There needs to be ground rules that everyone understands and can abide to which is what has happened, HM's quality as everyone from what I can see have been going downhill fast.
Regarding the weapons you use, that's a different issues which I'm aware is being addressed separately within the Police I have not seen in the past few weeks seen many Police at a HM without a MX/MK18/MK1 which is the same as what we are using apart from the access to some better scopes which you guys have and the fact that your gear is also, free... When we do HMs we're arriving with millions of gear and vehicles between us which we risk, I just wanted to mention that for possibly the third time, but we are slightly side tracking here.
Police's go to response is 'Defensive advantage' that is completely true, although you guys come back... So what's the advantage to that when you die and know where from then come back fifteen minutes later with full knowledge of where you died from and just wait in a bush far away waiting for us to peek at someone for you to kill us the advantage is lost when you guys come back.
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ya boy joe
Well-known member
- Location
- Durham, Durham City
In response to your first point, I've never seen someone join for the HM and then disconnect right after, people always remain on the server for at least an hour after to take part in other activities, furthermore, it's literally always been fair when we have people joining. People start it with the minimum of 10 then end up VSing 30, most of the time ending up with around 15 VS 30, considering the defensive advantage, better gear and positioning rebels have from the start, why would that be unbalanced in the slightest, also, another thing: it's literally a bank. If you shot a cop in real life or robbed a bank, do you think all of his mates wouldn't turn up, but if they did afterwards they'd have to sit a 1KM away? That's what people don't seem to understand, we have worse gear overall by far, our strength is literally in numbers, something we don't have now.
Also, I'd pretty confident it was Ascension doing the HM with 28 people exactly, I even remember looking on TS after I died when you retreated to your gang base with the trucks after the HM, something we also can't do now, in addition to that, though, none of us complained when people join for gang base raids, it's literally expected and embraced. Why wouldn't you want the best possible chance and get all of your gang mates available? In regards to the weapons you're seeing, that's because AR are rather active and we're the only people that use weapons abovfe a 6.5 caliber, besides, you can all get 7.62s anyway, furthermore, if you don't wanna take the risk, maybe don't try to rob a literal bank.
Hopping on has never been issues, it has balanced the police force's lesser weapons and equipment out with our greater numbers, allowing rebels to retain the advantage and play on it. If you're not able to do that, then you're the only gang that hasn't. Invictia managed to VS 40 cops with 10 people, most of which joining after the blasting charge, yet there was never a single complaint, even when they lost. This has just been the way of things for a long time and it has worked perfectly fine, just now it apparently doesn't because you can't win a HM. Also, making a report without the idea of 'getting people banned' is pathetic. If you wanted it sorting alternatively, go to liason. This forced staff to response, when you could of just requested to come to the police board meeting with a group rep/leader.
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James Travers
Travers
- Location
- Republic of Ireland
Yeah I agree, there's no point in fixing something that's not broken. So what about the rebels which "hop" on during a HM? Do they get banned or is it just a thing of, Police are a whitelisted faction, let's make them follow more rules than anyone else.
Vlad Vodka
Well-known member
- Location
- OG
I think most of us bat have been commenting ( @CI Joe @BennyBait @Daniel 2sec) can all see it from your perspective. We've been rebels for a long time. Personally before I joined the cops I thought the bank was unfair to cops ,too hard to assault, too much cover for defenders and the dmt's right around the corner. So I do not understand why you think the cops have such an advantage.
From what I've seen as a cop there are barely any 7.62's in use during fights as police. The only ones using them is AR and SI+. there are only 7 people si+ and there is only a select few who are AR. The reason it looks like you guys are only getting shot by 7.62's is because the people thay do use them know how to, therefore killing alot of you and then everyone seeing, "killed by EMR MK1 7.62" the only time i've ever seen lower ranks that werent supposed to have those weapons use them was when cso's had to defend themselves by picking up a weapon or people being out of ammo and needing another weapon.
You say our gear is free wich is true, but because of this there is very strict rules about using gear. Being that there is a few ppl that have 6.5 or higher and the majority have mk20c's because pc's are the most active rank. Id be happy to pay 800k for every loadout if that meant id be on patrol with a mk1, but we cant because then it wouldnt make sense RP wise. And it would be unfair.
the way the rebels vs police works is rebels can win through superior firepower, and cops get their strength in big numbers with bad guns. And now our biggest strenght has been taken from us...
HackerManCammal
Global Banned Btw
- Location
- Perth and Kinross
So as member of both paties here i mean if every gunfight wasent a zombie horde every 20 mins it would be fine but its when police come back 4 timesis what gets to me i know it supposed to replicate real life but ita as i said it like fighting zombies
But again my opion is more gang biased but surely anyone can see my point its just that an hm that lasts an hour can see officers return 4 time almost but rebels cant comeback i see how but surley when an officer comesback 4 times surely thats a point where enoughs enough that me means in essence that a 15 v 10 officer hm can mean 15 v 40 which is just ridicoulis but thats my opinon
But again my opion is more gang biased but surely anyone can see my point its just that an hm that lasts an hour can see officers return 4 time almost but rebels cant comeback i see how but surley when an officer comesback 4 times surely thats a point where enoughs enough that me means in essence that a 15 v 10 officer hm can mean 15 v 40 which is just ridicoulis but thats my opinon
Vlad Vodka
Well-known member
- Location
- OG
This only shows that your gang is bad at doing hm's. You are supposed to leave and fill the trucks not sit in the building for an hour and kill cops... back in morrisons we'd be 7 vs 25 and we'd be at our gold house within 20 mins of placing the charge. And because of this it seems unfair but if you would guys would look at what you could do better instead of what we could do to make it easier we wouldnt be here now.
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- Location
- South East UK
It was denied for multiple reasons. The main one, not your fault but the first anyone heard minus the negotiator about the bank op was when the blasting charge was placed. We looked at the map and we see one cop was there alone.
When we decide to head over to the HM we notice that the cop was in fact bleading out. Which is why the decision was made to try and defuse the bomb after speaking to everyone at the compound.
Boston Broiler
Banned
There is absolutely no issues whatsoever with Police getting back up to assist them, if they're on the server. You fail to see how additional Police joining is a form of meta-gaming. We are going in circles here I have covered what I wanted to, AR are not the only ones with 7.62s and I'll happily show you footage of a CSO and PC's with them if you would like during a HM? Are they AR now? Did they change the uniform and not tell anyone?
It is unbalanced because you can come back even a 10v10 the police will always have the advantage you have to kill everyone involved and close in on the HM this slowly happens and every single person who dies, re-spawns, re-gears and drives back to within 1/2KM, once the NLR timer is over they rush back in, which in a way is pretty cool because it adds to the role-play but is a huge Police/UNMC advantage which you guys fail to see for some reason.
I'm unsure as to why there's so many personal attacks on Ascension saying how we can't do it? I personally have only failed one time and its because I couldn't get passed level 20 on Zombies as I run out of ammo.
As for you guys using 5.56s? This is a very strange looking 5.56 where did you get this from if you don't mind me asking?
I've removed the name of the Officer as it's not a name and shame topic here. This is an example of the under powered gear you guys have lately.
What type of 5.56 rounds do Zafirs take these days?
It is unbalanced because you can come back even a 10v10 the police will always have the advantage you have to kill everyone involved and close in on the HM this slowly happens and every single person who dies, re-spawns, re-gears and drives back to within 1/2KM, once the NLR timer is over they rush back in, which in a way is pretty cool because it adds to the role-play but is a huge Police/UNMC advantage which you guys fail to see for some reason.
I'm unsure as to why there's so many personal attacks on Ascension saying how we can't do it? I personally have only failed one time and its because I couldn't get passed level 20 on Zombies as I run out of ammo.
As for you guys using 5.56s? This is a very strange looking 5.56 where did you get this from if you don't mind me asking?
I've removed the name of the Officer as it's not a name and shame topic here. This is an example of the under powered gear you guys have lately.
What type of 5.56 rounds do Zafirs take these days?
Vlad Vodka
Well-known member
- Location
- OG
Can we see this officers rank, because im fairly sure its either an si+ member of ar or a cso who needed it for selfdefense
Boston Broiler
Banned
They were not handed weapons to defend themselves, they turned and got out of Police marked vehicles with 7.62's in their hands...
The Officer was a high ranking one but the point you guys made were that its unfair as you have 5.56's I can give you more examples all day long of these "5.56's" in no way whatsoever do we have any advantage other than being able to rush in and set up quickly and possibly having the upper hand defensively for the first 15-30 mins until you guys come back.
The Officer was a high ranking one but the point you guys made were that its unfair as you have 5.56's I can give you more examples all day long of these "5.56's" in no way whatsoever do we have any advantage other than being able to rush in and set up quickly and possibly having the upper hand defensively for the first 15-30 mins until you guys come back.
Vlad Vodka
Well-known member
- Location
- OG
No.. the point was the majority has them out of 20 cops it will be at least 14 5.56 and the others maybe 6.5 probs a few unarmed cso's too