Concerning the AEGIS Contract.

[Vladic Ka]

Nothing is stopping you helping the civilians.......

 

[DemonPuppy]

Heated? If I seem heated then I apologise. It's not as if I'm making mindless and points without a viable argument, nor am I making my point in a cheap and childish way.

No need to apologise but just so you know, you are fighting a losing war

 

[Samatlewis]

No need to apologise but just so you know, you are fighting a losing war

I am sure from anyone's personal experiences that although you may be losing a war it doesn't mean you have to put your hands up and surrender. I am confident in fighting for my side of a debate and the problems and solutions that come with it. 

The fact of it being a 'losing war' doesn't exactly concern me, it was never believed that this or any post would lead to groups like AEGIS getting what we want, the aim was for answers and to raise awareness.

 

[DemonPuppy]

it doesn't mean you have to put your hands up and surrender

Brave, you will lose more men.

the aim was for answers and to raise awareness

You've got answers but you are still holding the line refusing to surrender even though your mission is over.

Just so you know, I am not siding with anyone but sometimes don't fight for too long, it won't do you any good. Especially with a nation far more superior than yourself.

 

[Rick Wolfe]

I couldn't agree with this more.

All your contract can be fulfilled legally by playing as a cop.... 

Don't be cops that chase bullets, go out and offer services... "community support" officers actually are there for a reason.. to support the community...

It's a shame this is forgotten almost immediately, and not stated in training

It's a shame how much effort you put into being against this.To avoid getting into trouble and being banned I wont say what i really wanna say here,But im ashamed at the amount of Immature "I want one to,it's not fair" crap i've seen involving this contract,While a few people make legit points,most where not.

Btw NATO/UN not only allows the Use of "Private Security Companies" it is currently using a few as we speak & with UK being a primarly member of the Security Council,They have voted "For" the use of Private Security to help overstressed goverments protect people.

I got bored one night and actually read the Articles & no where does it make a statement  against Private Security.

To reitirate There is a tremendous diffierence between Mercenaries & Private Security.as a matter of fact the only thing UN wants form PS is to regulate it to ensure they are doing it right.

*Edit* One more thing on cops protecting civs on legal runs,In my Entire time here,I've seen 4 cops at the old Multi processor,even though it was robbed literly every few minutes,and rareley see a officer checking in on civilians,This being because ebel gangs outnumber the police force at any given moment,So until cops stop intentionaly speeding by legal zones to avoid contact,AEGIS will be needed.

Nothing is stopping you helping the civilians.......

Your right,We can protect civs still,But because there are absolutely no Legal rifles or anything we can use to counter rebel weapons,we are forced to use illegal weapons and gt them taken away,So can we get at least a Legal TRG?

 

[adster mc]

But a group like the UNMC (military groupp) that is basically here to shoot and 'protect a border' or whatever is endorsed by the Altis government? Sometimes I fail to understand the mindset of the government. Yes it makes it easier for the group to do their bit but without access to the guns how are we going to make a difference? We're there in hope but not actually able to make a physical difference. Plainly and simply the police doesn't have the ability to train people to the standard needed nor the manpower in game due to the sheer population of a server at one time. Is it because there's no staff backing? Is it because there's no verification of the standard delivered or the ability to protect people? If so what's to stop that from being a problem and finding a solution?

This is not what the UNMC is about in anyway shape or form , we have and are working on a lot of stuff revolving around the UNMC so please don't assume

 

[Spunky Bumlove]

The moment people start playing as a cop they start using our slots and have to respond to the same things as the rest of us. Officers under fire is the most common issue we deal with and it takes priority over most everything else. If they are on in a cop slot then they to will have to respond to this.

The point of AEGIS, and the contract, was to have a group whose number one priority is assisting legal civilians. When told we could not give one group a free pass to carry MXCs and Vermins, we decided to nullify the contract as restricting AEGIS to using pistols would render them unable to protect people effectively, hence putting more innocent lives in danger.

At this time AEGIS members are to be treated as any other group carrying illegal firearms, thankfully we do not run into them so often as others because they do not generally involve themselves in activities that attract police attention. On the occasion that we do see AEGIS carrying firearms, their members are more often than not compliant and will hand over their firearms willingly.

 

[Rick Wolfe]

The moment people start playing as a cop they start using our slots and have to respond to the same things as the rest of us. Officers under fire is the most common issue we deal with and it takes priority over most everything else. If they are on in a cop slot then they to will have to respond to this.

The point of AEGIS, and the contract, was to have a group whose number one priority is assisting legal civilians. When told we could not give one group a free pass to carry MXCs and Vermins, We decided to nullify the contract as restricting AEGIS to using pistols would render them unable to protect people effectively.

At this time AEGIS members are to be treated as any other group carrying illegal firearms, thankfully we do not run into them so often as others because they do not generally involve themselves in activities that attract police attention. On the occasion that we do see AEGIS carrying firearms, their members are more often than not compliant and will hand over their firearms willingly.

Exactly,The sheer amount of rebel player & gangs makes police response hard & personally I think the hate it garnered was simply Immaturity because someone got something they wanted.

 

[MrRabbit]

I was here when AEGIS landed on the Island, and I will have to say, that they have been nothing else than helpful to each and everyone who have required their services.

Personally I think they do deserve the contract, since this is what they do, and they have done it since their first hours on duty.

However: Protecting civilians / New arrivals against the fierce rebels out there, couldn't this be something to be looked into by the "Safer Neighborhoods"





Would be something good to be doing as part of the Training for our Community Support Officers.

 

[Doohicky]

The UNMC are a whitelisted group. You are not. 

... @Vladic Ka  , sorry but I have to point out, This literally means: "The UNMC is a special group that has special rules"... as in, they don't play by the same rules the rest of us do.  (maybe not what you meant, but that's what I got from it)... Whitelisted or not, aren't we all supposed to be on equal footing here?

(it's not like the UNMC will be pro-actively protecting hobos on their copper runs).

Personally, I actually Would have the UNMC pro-actively protecting people doing legal runs (...within a certain RP story... so long as they sell their cargo to the UNMC at a reduced fee...etc)... but that's just me.

 

[Cao Yun]

Simple fact is the police is useless in 80% of the situations. At this point if the police was a gang they would have been disbanded due to the horrible shape they are in and the amount of horrible roleplay that is seen from them every day. AEGIS does attempt to make situations end without violence, and I can vouch for them due to me always stealing 5+ zipties off of their dead members. My friends and I have made several tests to check police reliability, and as things stand now you can rob a gas station and have police drive directly by you due to their beloved "BANK JOB OPERATIONS" (aka rubber bullet storm: 2 the second coming) or you can text police that you are in danger and wait for another rebel to show up and kill the rebel trying to kill you.

It saddens me that there has been such a reaction from the community and some staff that they fail to realize that the situation has been improved. Police simply cannot take care of the current island and if the "government" would prefer denying a roleplay contact and have these so called "just rebels" simply do their protection with zero form of RP from the police force, it proves that the current situation is volatile and no were near stabile.

The amount of hobos that I have helped, who would left the server otherwise due to the extreme amount of robberies and random murders has risen over the hundreds. I fail to see why a contract such as this is frowned upon, as it affects very few things except rebels who say "STOP OR DIE", and police who believe they are exempt from having to roleplay and think "LEAVE OR YOU WILL BE ARRESTED" is sufficient, come to think of it, they are probably the same group of people.

TLR
Police need to shape up, and until they do contracts are needed, rebels are too OP. Stop being salty, and accept it.

Sincerely,
Dr. H. Lecter

 

[PeachMaster]

I was here when AEGIS landed on the Island, and I will have to say, that they have been nothing else than helpful to each and everyone who have required their services.

Personally I think they do deserve the contract, since this is what they do, and they have done it since their first hours on duty.

However: Protecting civilians / New arrivals against the fierce rebels out there, couldn't this be something to be looked into by the "Safer Neighborhoods"



Would be something good to be doing as part of the Training for our Community Support Officers.

You gotta admit though, the new arrivals usually shout out the moment they step on the island: Where do i buy rebel licence xD 

 

[MrRabbit]

You gotta admit though, the new arrivals usually shout out the moment they step on the island: Where do i buy rebel licence xD 

I would be lying if I tried to refuse this..

 

[Pimpmauser]

You gotta admit though, the new arrivals usually shout out the moment they step on the island: Where do i buy rebel licence xD 

Or how much is a rebel licence

 

[Samatlewis]

This is not what the UNMC is about in anyway shape or form , we have and are working on a lot of stuff revolving around the UNMC so please don't assume

Only making assumptions based of what the UNMC turned into last time and what I've heard about them, surely that's only fair I presume the group to be what it once was? Fair enough there's new command but the gear/equipment and even name hasn't recieved any kind of rebranding to lead me to think it won't be what it was.

Its good to see I'm not the only one that realises that there's too many rebel groups that penalise the hobo. Is everyone else blind because they are these rebel groups? Or is it because they're safely sitting in their hundreds of millions and it doesn't bother them? Hmm...

 

[Vladic Ka]

How do you know the gear hasn't changed? Do you think we will let it be the same as last time? 

I can make assumptions too. I watched AEGIS both in game and on TS after I heard about this contract. The max gang I saw was three in game and most on TS was 5, barely enough for a gang channel. However I just assumed it was an off couple of days. If I was looking at gangs for any kind of contract that enables them to break the law legally it would be one with a fighting chance against against a medium sized gang. Based on my assumptions AEGIS would not be my first choice. 

Ofc the government didn't have any say in who was given the contract which is another can of worms all together. There is a reason that police around the world are not involved in making laws. Just enforcing them. 

 

[angellfall]

Simple fact is the police is useless in 80% of the situations. At this point if the police was a gang they would have been disbanded due to the horrible shape they are in and the amount of horrible roleplay that is seen from them every day. AEGIS does attempt to make situations end without violence, and I can vouch for them due to me always stealing 5+ zipties off of their dead members. My friends and I have made several tests to check police reliability, and as things stand now you can rob a gas station and have police drive directly by you due to their beloved "BANK JOB OPERATIONS" (aka rubber bullet storm: 2 the second coming) or you can text police that you are in danger and wait for another rebel to show up and kill the rebel trying to kill you.

It saddens me that there has been such a reaction from the community and some staff that they fail to realize that the situation has been improved. Police simply cannot take care of the current island and if the "government" would prefer denying a roleplay contact and have these so called "just rebels" simply do their protection with zero form of RP from the police force, it proves that the current situation is volatile and no were near stabile.

The amount of hobos that I have helped, who would left the server otherwise due to the extreme amount of robberies and random murders has risen over the hundreds. I fail to see why a contract such as this is frowned upon, as it affects very few things except rebels who say "STOP OR DIE", and police who believe they are exempt from having to roleplay and think "LEAVE OR YOU WILL BE ARRESTED" is sufficient, come to think of it, they are probably the same group of people.

TLR
Police need to shape up, and until they do contracts are needed, rebels are too OP. Stop being salty, and accept it.

Sincerely,
Dr. H. Lecter

I think you are failing to understand how the police works and what they do or then you just have had really bad experiences with the polices. When you see police just ignoring you is that they are most likely responding to something else. Police might see someone on roadside gun pointed to them when they are responding to something else. It is up to the individual patrol to make the assessment from the information they are given. If they are responding to issue where there is bullets flying already the police will respond to that, not to you by roadside. As medical professional I'm understand the meaning of triage. There are several police rules and guidelines what restrict our involvement on different situations and help us to make these decisions. 

As spunky stated, AEGIS has totally different priorities than police that is why they are very much needed, and the contract was IMO really helpful not just for police for it impact to roadside robberies, but also for the impact it had for normal working guys in the island.

But as vladic here stated, there was also downsides on this contract the way it was made, was little off.

 

[Samatlewis]

How do you know the gear hasn't changed? Do you think we will let it be the same as last time? 

I can make assumptions too. I watched AEGIS both in game and on TS after I heard about this contract. The max gang I saw was three in game and most on TS was 5, barely enough for a gang channel. However I just assumed it was an off couple of days. If I was looking at gangs for any kind of contract that enables them to break the law legally it would be one with a fighting chance against against a medium sized gang. Based on my assumptions AEGIS would not be my first choice. 

Ofc the government didn't have any say in who was given the contract which is another can of worms all together. There is a reason that police around the world are not involved in making laws. Just enforcing them. 

Assuming a lasseiz fair approach is being taken the same as last time yes, obviously uniform will Change but the other firearms are yet to be avaliable to the public so I'm assuming most will be the same with new additions and unfit for purpose items being taken away.

This is not solely for AEGIS; any group that wants to come along and help people the island without interacting in illegal trades is more than welcome to try get a contract like AEGIS has. 

Yes AEGIS doesn't have many members but I have always assumed it's because rebel life is more appealing and so is free gear and gun fights from the police. AEGIS itself has Spurs of activity but we're always there in the background whether or not people know it. I'm more than happy to state your research on my company as much as you like to make your point that we're not in the best shape, however I'll state my findings this afternoon or the end of the week with statistics I will have taken regarding the police to support my argument.

Atleast a group like AEGIS is trying to help weak civilians on an island so rife with crime.

 

[Supermoosey]

TFK back in it's infancy used to take new players and teach them the game from the ground up while having a gang to support them, they also protected the guys doing legal activity, they just didn't go around shouting about it looking for the attention or the praise, it was just an aspect of our gang. While the contract was active, I had 2 run ins with AEGIS, one good, one bad where they claimed they could break an aviation act and not wear the correct uniform to land at a gas station that we had dealt with as the police. 

Yes the police is in a constant state of flux with taking in new members to be trained and progressed through the academy to try to encourage the helping of Civs and responding to the right situations, the problem is, once they get to PC/SPC they are out of our hands and can essentially do what they want. 3 servers to fill with 90 cops, the argument for just taking up a slot is null, just the other day it was spoken about how we need members in server 3 and to a lesser extent server 2, surely AEGIS can take their aspect of RP into the police, possibly joining the academy to spread their help the little man attitude and it can grow from their into the police?

 

[Neo]

 that is basically here to shoot and 'protect a border' or whatever is endorsed by the Altis government?

I'm sorry, where is this written?

This is UNMC 2.0

We would not follow the path of that which failed, badly, in the past.

Whilst some leaders remain, it's a very different path and this time it's had oversight from the management not just its own "admin member" (as it was originally).

Can't let blueberries out on their own to do community supporting work because of the way rebels are

Read my message fully. I didn't say only CSO's and PCSO's should do it. That's stupid. What i said is in this server you start as community support, but I never actually see any "community support".

These are things that are not even mentioned in trainings.

I also said (paraphrasing) Be a cop and don't be a bullet chaser.

There is NOTHING in police rules or handbook that says "YOU MUST PATROL IN THIS MANNER!"

The issue with the police  is they're so focused on big ops, they forget the little guy. This littleguy will one day think "fk the police, they never helped me, so why should I ever help them", and become another rebel for you to deal with.

It's a shame how much effort you put into being against this.To avoid getting into trouble and being banned I wont say what i really wanna say here

Sorry, No-one gets banned for being constructive. But I put about as much effort into that post as pressing keys.

The decision was made by management, and that is that.

• The "contract" was made without the knowledge of anyone outside being involved.
  
• The Contract wasn't fairly tendered allowing other groups to compete for this right
  
• The gang in question had about 3 active members and 5 total listed members at the time. 
  
• The gang could get away with illegal weapons. How is that fair on other gangs?
  

Because of the way it was done and the conditions fabricated, we had to step in. Had this been organised in an entirely different manner, this could have been a different outcome.

Also, making comments such as "I wont say what I want to say" speaks volumes, how about think before you type.

As police we are EXPECTED to help our colleagues and then get moaned at if we don't attend to situations if police start losing.

So start the run, if an emergency pops up, you should have originally made the people you were helping aware of this.

Would this not apply to AGEIS too? let's say a member is doing a salt run and gets held up, you'd leave him stranded there? but police wise, you'd play lemmings with the other police?

im ashamed at the amount of Immature "I want one to,it's not fair" crap i've seen involving this contract

You're obviously close minded on your own problems here, obviously.... you're a member of Aegis so you have a problem. The contract wasn't fairly dealt, you did it under the table. Real life contracts are tendered out, yeah, some are done under the rug, but we're talking about "laws for one, laws for others" here, this affects many people, so stop being narrow minded.

One more thing on cops protecting civs on legal runs,In my Entire time here,I've seen 4 cops at the old Multi processor,even though it was robbed literly every few minutes,and rareley see a officer checking in on civilians,

Then join the cops and do something about it. Stop being another guy with a gun. You have no right to complain if you've never tried.

we are forced to use illegal weapons and gt them taken away

bullshit, called and nailed on this one... I've seen and myself roleplayed many times out of having a rifle due to saving someone's life.

And that makes the fact that it's another faction that's going to dwindle police numbers in total and their ability in-game to help the exploitable citizens?

When you assume! (go google it)

I'm done, I have no reason to reply to anything in this thread. The contract wasn't voided, the illegal weapons were.

Please think before you type. As I'm aware this was brought up legitimately, and to make a statement, but the attitude of some of the members of that gang, and things being stated are intentionally trying to cause shit, or light a fire.

Cool it.