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Concerning the AEGIS Contract.

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Lemmen

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I feel like this post is long overdue and now is finally the time for it to reach the surface.

So many of you know me, My name is Lemmen and I've been here for soon 2 years and I'm currently a Director at AEGIS. 

As many of you know around a month ago AEGIS received a contract with the Police Constabulary, link: http://www.altislife.co.uk/topic/52538-aegis-agreement/

This contract was met with a whole lot of criticism from members of the community as you can see in the topic, saying that the police shouldn’t be working with mercenaries, and something with it being against the geneva convention, well the part about it being against the geneva convention isn't exactly right nor is it wrong, however the UN's mercenary convention covers this, It's a treaty from 2001 that prohibits use, training, recruitment and financing of mercenaries. However a lot of countries hasn't ratified this convention, this including both Greece and the UK. However AEGIS is anything but mercenaries, since the real definition of a mercenary is: “A person who takes part in an armed conflict who is not a national or a party to the conflict and is ‘motivated to take part in the hostilities by the desire for private gain’.” with emphasis on Gain. We have no private gain from protecting civilians other than the satisfaction and the knowing we might just have made a new member to this community we all dearly love.

But this contract was voided, none of us really knows the details of it, other than the police were allegedly forced to void it by the Staff team. And I'm not trying to blame anyone, I'm just trying to sort things out as I am clueless of the reasoning behind this.

Maybe you don't know this, maybe you're part of this, but these weak civilians are the most targeted victim of Robberies, often with deadly outcome for the civilian, primarily because they're unarmed and incapable of protecting themselves against a group of say 5 armed rebels who are looking for some easy money. Due to the heavy load on Police from armed rebel conflicts especially on Server 2, the police are not capable of protecting these civilians.

This is where AEGIS comes in, we offer free protection to those who can't protect themselves. To some people it doesn't make sense that we're not charging for our services but the year that AEGIS has been on the server we've never done it for the money, we do it for the satisfaction.

Because when we go out there and protect one civilian doing his copper run, that's maybe one more community member, because currently new players log in, read the rules, get their licenses and get a truck with the 100k they start with. But when they try to make some money by doing a copper run, literally invested the whole 100k they started with depending on their truck and trusty pickaxe to mine some copper, process it and sell it, they get ambushed at the trader, heavily outmanned, heavily outgunned, These people steal all the money the civilian would have earned, they take his truck and I've even heard some people take their clothes and shoot their legs and leave them on the ground, and what do they do then? They log out of the server and go to the next one. We don't want it to happen that way, we want people to play on this server and with AEGIS at their side, they have good protection, and a good introduction to what good RP is, showcasing the high standards our community prides itself in.

AEGIS Will continue to protect civilians with or without a contract, however this contract helped us in the way of getting trust from civilians, and instead of worrying for cops taking our guns we could be out and protect the new players to make them enjoy the game as much as we do! We will always comply with officer and we would even surrender to a cop who's unarmed because killing or harassing cops is not anything that we stand for.

AEGIS Director Lemmen

I haven't made this post in an attempt to make a huge mud throwing competition so please keep it clean. 

 
The police were told that they could contract anyone they want just that they would not be allowed to let any Altis citizens break the law. Eg carry illegal firearms.

The government set the laws. The police just enforce them.

 
The police were told that they could contract anyone they want just that they would not be allowed to let any Altis citizens break the law. Eg carry illegal firearms.

The government set the laws. The police just enforce them.
Alright Vladic, how about a proposal then? Since AEGIS is one of the oldest if not the oldest gang on the server currently, We work hard to try and keep civilians safe where the police are unable to. How about a meeting between management, AEGIS and Police command to discuss the possibility of a proper Contract?

The Copper miners we protect are the new generations of quality roleplayers and scaring them off because they're inable to financially keep going is not something we want. As AEGIS we're doing our very best for this cause, and all the concerns and problem can be adressed in a said meeting?

 
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Alright Vladic, how about a proposal then? Since AEGIS is one of the oldest if not the oldest gang on the server currently, We work hard to try and keep civilians safe where the police are unable to. How about a meeting between management, AEGIS and Police command to discuss the possibility of a proper Contract?
Why would we need to meet you? Its up to the police to contract who they want and they know the terms. On another note these kinds of contracts should not be exclusive to a single gang and should be tendered out if a contract is offered. If you want to do the job of the police join the police.

Edit: Ill just add something about the sentence about joining the police. I said that because as a whitelisted faction they have a role and their own rules that they have to follow with consequences of not following them. A gang, oldest or not, only has to follow server rules. 

Edit 2: No one is stopping you from protecting copper miners. You will just have to abide by the same laws as the rest of the island.

 
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I must say from my perspective things have been getting worse at the copper trader over the last few months, and the amount of moaning I hear in side about being robbed of everything they have is getting worse too. I'm forever keeping an eye on this spot as it's rife for RDM, and I feel I need to keep an eye on our new blood to make sure they're not cheated of their hard work here.

Either way AEGIS will continue to fight the good fight. With a contract they have one less thing to worry about, and likewise, the police have one less thing to worry about too. Win/Win.

Keep up the good work Lemmen, I really do hope things work out for your company.

 
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I did enjoy seeing that a organisation such as AEGIS got a contract like that, however what I thought was wrong about it was that it was done in secret. This kind of contract should be handed out to the top qualified organisation after a fair application process that everyone would be informed of. I have no doubt that AEGIS would get the contract due to the documentation that AEGIS have. But I still would like to see everyone have a chance.

Good luck lemmen. Keep up with the good work at the iron trader and hopefully we will meet there once I arrive on Altis

 
Just to add mercenaries and Private Military Contractors are two different thing.

Mercenaries are illegal, goes into combat operations to fight

PMCs are not, take Academi/Blackwater which provide security and does not go into combat operations to fight. They go into provide security

AEGIS is not a mercenary group as far as I know, you guys dont go and wage war/fights, right?

You provide security services therefore you are a PMC just as much as we are, though we fight the Police due to the fact they take our guns away >.>

So dont label yourselves as mercenary cause you aint.

To be honest, hate me all you want but I'm kinda glad the contract got voided due to the fact it wasnt announced that contract can be taken and yours was done in secret. We, ASF applied to have our guns legalized, we got rejected (T_T)

But when we found out about a contract, you guys were really nearly done with the contract as the guys we talked to kinda boasted you guys in a way stating that AEGIS has this and that, AEGIS is free and so on.

 
Just to add mercenaries and Private Military Contractors are two different thing.

Mercenaries are illegal, goes into combat operations to fight

PMCs are not, take Academi/Blackwater which provide security and does not go into combat operations to fight. They go into provide security

AEGIS is not a mercenary group as far as I know, you guys dont go and wage war/fights, right?

You provide security services therefore you are a PMC just as much as we are, though we fight the Police due to the fact they take our guns away >.>

So dont label yourselves as mercenary cause you aint.

To be honest, hate me all you want but I'm kinda glad the contract got voided due to the fact it wasnt announced that contract can be taken and yours was done in secret. We, ASF applied to have our guns legalized, we got rejected (T_T)

But when we found out about a contract, you guys were really nearly done with the contract as the guys we talked to kinda boasted you guys in a way stating that AEGIS has this and that, AEGIS is free and so on.
The reason as Axolotl stated was that we approached with a spreadsheet of our activity, we always abide by the law, and we've been here since September 2014 (Alot of things has changed and some things stayed the same) And for well over a year we've been offering free services to civilians and will continue to do so.

And we've never labeled ourselves as mercenaries, we've been labeled as mercenaries.

 
If you want to do the job of the police join the police.
I couldn't agree with this more.

All your contract can be fulfilled legally by playing as a cop.... 

Don't be cops that chase bullets, go out and offer services... "community support" officers actually are there for a reason.. to support the community...

It's a shame this is forgotten almost immediately, and not stated in training

 
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I couldn't agree with this more.

All your contract can be fulfilled legally by playing as a cop.... 

Don't be cops that chase bullets, go out and offer services... "community support" officers actually are there for a reason.. to support the community...

It's a shame this is forgotten almost immediately, and not stated in training
Can't let blueberries out on their own to do community supporting work because of the way rebels are, so they lost their meaning the second the island becomes a hostile place (which is permanent) plus, community support (cso/pcso) either don't have a gun or have rubbers. I am sure everyone knows that although rubbers are OP, it's a danger to run up to someone in an open area and restrain them if they're down because you'll only get a bullet from their friends. Then if they're rubbered and you keep them pinned whilst someone goes to get their friend, you'll get moaned at for excessive force.

As police we are EXPECTED to help our colleagues and then get moaned at if we don't attend to situations if police start losing. If cops started to stop attending these situations because they're protecting a newbie on their copper run (most people shrug them off because it's a low value run and someone that they don't personally know) they would non stop get moaned at. 

AEGIS doesn't seek police work so telling AEGIS that they might as well be cops doesn't really have any statue. We're not here to respond to crime or prevent it. We're good minded people that if we see someone getting robbed, hell yeah we will help because we are good citizens, not wannabe cops. Completely different type of group. Simply a group that basically helps 'hobos' and people doing the legal trades, a group that tbh is needed on a server where almost every group will penalise and exploit the new and vulnerable. How often do you see a group that doesn't ask for payment for protection and will go out of their way to HELP people and not shoot/rob them? I personally can probably count it on one hand.

Simply, having police as a neutral party eliminates 30 players from being potential hostile/a threat to the ability to help citizen. Yeah we could use rooks to protect people but facing a 7.62 which is 1 hit death, there's no chance. When people are out to rob they won't settle for a negotiation half the time; they want all or nothing. What's a small group of guys with rooks 16rnd mags going to do against a potential group of 30rnd 6.5/ 20rnd 7.62? Almost nothing. When was the last time you got a response from a cop when you was getting robbed at the copper processor? Or even see a cop show up in time to save you and/or your truck that was all you could afford? Personally about 3 months ago.

If the police openly offered and made a contract of their own terms and conditions, that satisfied that of staff and was given to a reputable and trusted group, for example AEGIS, would that not be beneficial to literally all that join the server? (excluding the criminals that attempt to rob contracted citizens) If it could provide leeway in the sense that firearms of some calibre were made available to a group with the sole intention of protecting the vulnerable hobos then the retention of players would probably be higher. I have seen and known many people that join the server, spend 3 hours on their FIRST run and get shat on. Will they come back? More than likely not. Yeah it's all part of the game but when it's people are already established financially and in a group then that's not fair at all. 

The police could get a say in who's accepted into said contracted group (if they think their quality of roleplay would be sub-par then that person would be urged to get more experience). And/or work alongside the group to bring training and roleplay standards higher. (Examples)

Comparing Altis to the UK on all fronts doesn't exactly work, due to the fact that many arguments contradict themselves 'oh would you see that in real life in the UK?' no but would you see pistols be legal in the UK? Would you see the death rates of an island of this size be so high? Or a financial system so stable? There's countless things that ARMA itself limit, however it's not the game that is limiting the possibility for a group to server the hobo, it's the people controlling and playing the game that's doing that. As displayed by a member of staff, it's getting worse for your new average Joe to even get started on the island. Simply shutting down a request to allow a practical group to obtain and maintain arms is bizarre in my opinion. The return of a group that gets firearms for free and is almost designed to use those firearms frequently with no real benefit for a particular persons (it's not like the UNMC will be pro-actively protecting hobos on their copper runs).

 
The only thing that you have for you argument is that it makes it easier for you to protect people with a contract from the police allowing you to use illegal weapons. You do not need this to continue protecting civilians it simply is something that makes it easier. It is something that we will not allow for the foreseeable future so I suggest you continue your awesome work and build on that well earned reputation for being a large, active and long serving gang and work within the the rules that we have here for all of our regular players. 

 
The only thing that you have for you argument is that it makes it easier for you to protect people with a contract from the police allowing you to use illegal weapons. You do not need this to continue protecting civilians it simply is something that makes it easier. It is something that we will not allow for the foreseeable future so I suggest you continue your awesome work and build on that well earned reputation for being a large, active and long serving gang and work within the the rules that we have here for all of our regular players. 
But a group like the UNMC (military groupp) that is basically here to shoot and 'protect a border' or whatever is endorsed by the Altis government? Sometimes I fail to understand the mindset of the government. Yes it makes it easier for the group to do their bit but without access to the guns how are we going to make a difference? We're there in hope but not actually able to make a physical difference. Plainly and simply the police doesn't have the ability to train people to the standard needed nor the manpower in game due to the sheer population of a server at one time. Is it because there's no staff backing? Is it because there's no verification of the standard delivered or the ability to protect people? If so what's to stop that from being a problem and finding a solution?

 
The UNMC are a whitelisted group. You are not. 

 
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UNMC is WHITELISTED and were not about protecting a border and shooting everything. let us come back and you'll see.

 
The UNMC are a whitelisted. You are not. 
And that makes the fact that it's another faction that's going to dwindle police numbers in total and their ability in-game to help the exploitable citizens? Take the time away from the police that could otherwise be spent helping and escorting hobos is made okay because it's a whitelisted faction that's doing it? Fair enough if it's always high quality roleplay but looking with a wider eye it's easy to see that out of the 124 slots, most 'CIV' should be renamed 'Rebel'.

This is starting to get out of hand...Samat, you seemed pretty heated.
Heated? If I seem heated then I apologise. It's not as if I'm making mindless and points without a viable argument, nor am I making my point in a cheap and childish way.

 
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