Sort out the police, or make it fair for gang members.

[Alex Moreno]

I wasn’t going to make this suggestion, but it’s gotten to the point now where we need to have a full community discussion with staff and developers about how the server is going with the police at the moment.

Firstly we need to talk about how overpowered the police are compared to gangs, In any situation with firearms majority of the time gangs will use pistols, firearms will have a SIG with 250 rounds + a fuck tonne more in the safe on there vehicle,  not only is that overpowered it’s unrealistic but that’s besides the point,  police will have anywhere from 5 to 10 armour on there person at anytime + more in there vehicle,  and then head armour same detail with that.  I’ve named 3 items and already police have a massive advantage over any gang in any situation, and your argument will be well gangs can have rifles and smg’s and armour and head armour,  but it’s not the same, on police it’s all free, and they have a vending machine of a vehicle where they can keep re supplying, in the case of gangs we have 250 max and 5 or so armour. 
 

to fix the problem of police being overpowered, police should have a single shot rifle, not automatic, this would help make situations more fair for gangs.

snipers shouldn’t be shooting from an armoured helicopter, snipers should be shooting from a building that can be overrun by gangs to give gangs a fighting chance

if I’m not wrong firearms has 32 slots, gangs have a max cap of 25, and half the time most gangs sit on around 13-15 people each night, the whole of the firearms team responding to shots is ridiculous.

CTSFO is counter terrorism not counter gangs, never in my life have I s The n CTSFO gunning down gang members who are fighting eachother, but ok it’s a roleplay server

this being said 

SAS since when does SAS attack a gang because they have robbed a police station but again it’s a roleplay server

also the win mentality of police needs addressing,  they have a drone, a helicopter, firearms, they can check plates, make a evidence report, why do they need 20+ firearms to gun down a person with a weapon it’s pathetic.

im not the only person who thinks this needs addressing.

take it upon your selves to argue in the comments staff are probably going to delete this anyway but honestly we need to talk about it, otherwise you’ll only see police on the sever you won’t see any gangs, we all talk, we all have opinions, let us talk about how we feel about the server .

people pay money to play here I don’t get why but fair enough each to your own. It’s alright your guys developing it but what are you gona develop when everyone’s gone because you don’t listen to us.

 

[Eden Nallebjorn]

-1 Big no 

In any situation with firearms majority of the time gangs will use pistols, firearms will have a SIG with 250 rounds + a fuck tonne more in the safe on there vehicle,  not only is that overpowered it’s unrealistic

But a gang trying to stick around and trying to fight armed response is realistic instead of doing the big brain move of idk running away? its almost as if gangs aren't meant to directly clash head on with police much like irl.

CTSFO is counter terrorism not counter gangs

I would class multiple armed people in the street shooting causing chaos and making the entire area a hazard to be in for citizens a bit of a terrorism issue.

In general i dont know maybe its just my mindset on police but if youre hanging round in a fight long enough that armed response turn up in numbers and your bright idea is to stay there and stick out the fight instead of attempting to run, thats not a police issue thats just dumb and unrealistic decision making.

 

[Alex Moreno]

I would class multiple armed people in the street shooting causing chaos and making the entire area a hazard to be in for citizens a bit of a terrorism issue.

Definition of terrorism

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

I see how you think gangs fighting gangs could be terrorism but it isn’t, it’s unlawful and it is making the area a hazard but it’s not political,  gang units should be fighting the crime not a terrorism unit.

if the gang was fighting police and that was there main aim then fair enough being in CTSFO I agree with that but when gangs are clashing against eachother don’t deploy CTSFO as it’s not needed. 
 

and regarding your statement of gangs trying to fight armed response is realistic?? From what I’ve seen recently no gang aims to fight police as there isn’t any chance of winning.  Gangs avoid police and then get forced into a gunfight as the police don’t back off, they stay around the area and then press the gangs into a situation.

 

[PinkSprinkles]

In general i dont know maybe its just my mindset on police but if youre hanging round in a fight long enough that armed response turn up in numbers and your bright idea is to stay there and stick out the fight instead of attempting to run, thats not a police issue thats just dumb and unrealistic decision making.

No one is talking about a single situation but if you do want to speak about it last night- ballas tried to leave and police decided to gun down, mechanics-occult-hangabouts- random server people not just ballas. Where does the line end? We tried to leave and got sprayed? We were told to go and got shit on whilst trying to do so.

+1 on the option to minor downgrade on the police equipment or their ability of when they use it as being gunned gown by 99 at a shop robbery just isn't it. 

We all had a long chat last night with staff being there about the server and what it used to be and there is no way forward with the attitude of police now. 

A change in equipment for police or a lesser in their numbers for a max cap at situations should be something that's at least looked at. 

we are all here to have fun, not just police. 


Another thing to think about in the standard of police, My house, cars and containers were raided (fair enough tbh) but not a single warrant? Not a single even mention of it to me? its been months now aswell and they found guns,coke ect ect. Where has the fun gone from being 'on the run' the dumb chases ?

 

 

[Samuel Shire]

Well let's be real here police are supposed to be more geared up and able to handle street gangs, in reality when the police appear on site with a waring groups those groups should be going shit scramble and trying to get away, instead they try to bunker down and continue the war, unless you have no choice you should be trying to escape to fight another day

It has been mentioned many times but police have to combat the gangs, so when the gangs get more ballsy and go all out guns blazing then the police have to be upped to combat that anti, if gangs only used guns in extreme situations and say went to fight with mele most of the time you would find more basic officers attending and less armed response

I get it you want to be in a gang where your like gods of your turf and the police are scared to come near you but that's never going to happen, if they come after the lost they are most definitely coming after street gangs

On a note officers only carry max ammo if it has been authorised by the higher ups otherwise it's like 60rounds

Also if you don't want the police there maybe don't have gunfights in the middle of the city go do it out in the wilderness or something like that

 

[Ben Clark]

This discussion is 100% needed ive playing a crim character 2+ years now is not fun no more. You wake up in the sever police see that gang is awake and they radio it through and next thing you know you got fire arms following you because they are trigger happy and excited to frag on them gangs that are just about to beef. Before any fed here in the community says take it up north in Sandy or Paleto area and you will be left alone. Yeah we tried that in paleto last week MRAP, Fire arms, and the black hawk showed up and shot us. 

Back in the day Feds didn't get involved with gang fights until the fights was over and it was RARE to see the MRAP or the black hawk now you see it every day.

In my opinion Police are over powered in the city there needs to be a balance how many feds can show up to a Gang vs Gang situations because police just get the win 100% of the time there should be a 50/50 where that gang can get away then the police can create future roleplay and put arrest warrants on the people who have been identified shooting.

 

[Kate Anderson]

You are aware that you are playing on a roleplay server, yes?

 

[Nikolai]

and then head armour same detail with that

we can only carry one helmet armour on us and that has to be equipped before we leave PD essentially

firearms will have a SIG with 250 rounds

needs to be authed

if I’m not wrong firearms has 32 slots

it's not really relevant how many slots firearms have, for the same reason as you said with gangs, we might have 31 firearms officers trained, but most days we might only get like 10 of those on duty at once, other days we get lucky and have more, that's just the way it works

police should have a single shot rifle, not automatic,

don't really see how that would make a difference if your main issue is the amount of cops on duty with said training?
gta doesn't tend to have a limit on how fast you can shot guns by tapping, so you could still spray a whole mag in no time
besides, we were using guns the IRL british police uses prior to them being reverted to base game weapons

snipers shouldn’t be shooting from an armoured helicopter,

it's not armoured, almost certain the window is one shot and the sniper simply doesn't have any cover to hide behind and heavily relies on how good of a pilot is controlling the heli

snipers should be shooting from a building that can be overrun by gangs to give gangs a fighting chance

they do, do that sometimes, depends on the situation really

CTSFO is counter terrorism not counter gangs, never in my life have I s The n CTSFO gunning down gang members who are fighting eachother, but ok it’s a roleplay server

this being said 

CTSFOs are normal firearms officers with more training, limiting them to not go to a gang shootout because of the uniform they have one seems counter intuitive

SAS since when does SAS attack a gang because they have robbed a police station but again it’s a roleplay server

SAS afaik have never attacked a gang for "robbing a police station" the military was around at some point to get x amount of weapons back that was gained rather wierdly at late hours by like 2 people

also the win mentality of police needs addressing

could unfortunately say the same about gangs, both sides have people with a win mentality, no way to avoid it and a suggestion won't change peoples mindset

why do they need 20+ firearms to gun down a person with a weapon it’s pathetic.

it's their job

staff are probably going to delete this anyway but honestly we need to talk about it

bit of a weird thing to say, no? this isn't causing any drama or anything that would directly break the forum rules, so why should it be deleted?

 

[Samuel Shire]

Back in the day Feds didn't get involved with gang fights until the fights was over and it was RARE to see the MRAP or the black hawk now you see it every day.

The more violent and aggressive gangs become the police have to match that to keep the civilian population safe

Also have to take into account that back in the day like 80% of the police were corrupt and either let you get away with it or helped

 

[Alex Moreno]

I get it you want to be in a gang where your like gods of your turf and the police are scared to come near you but that's never going to happen, if they come after the lost they are most definitely coming after street gangs

regarding the max ammo, it’s always authorised, I’ve been a police officer enough to see that,  again I’m a police officer, I’ve been on radio I see the win mentality of the police, I took a break starting last December before then the police where perfect, they did everything perfectly, now I come back first thing I see is a group of armed response gunning down anything that moves in the area, a helicopter with a sniper gunning down unarmed people from the sky,  this wouldn’t be happening in real life so why let us happen ingame,  I’ve seen it in both sides police and gang? And quite honestly police needs to be sorted.

 

[Lugi]

regarding the max ammo, it’s always authorised, I’ve been a police officer enough to see that,  again I’m a police officer, I’ve been on radio I see the win mentality of the police, I took a break starting last December before then the police where perfect, they did everything perfectly, now I come back first thing I see is a group of armed response gunning down anything that moves in the area, a helicopter with a sniper gunning down unarmed people from the sky,  this wouldn’t be happening in real life so why let us happen ingame,  I’ve seen it in both sides police and gang? And quite honestly police needs to be sorted.

I can personally guarantee that it's not always authorised, that is pure misinformation.

 

[Alex Moreno]

we can only carry one helmet armour on us and that has to be equipped before we leave PD essentially

needs to be authed

I see police applying head armour on the streets, seen it many times, there is many videos of it happening aswell, this being said it’s always auth’d

it's not armoured, almost certain the window is one shot and the sniper simply doesn't have any cover to hide behind and heavily relies on how good of a pilot is controlling the heli

might need to be tested as I’ve seen many times a marksman pistol shooting the sniper and nothing happens, and before you say range, it’s within range

CTSFOs are normal firearms officers with more training, limiting them to not go to a gang shootout because of the uniform they have one seems counter intuitive

CTSFO patrol quite regularly we have all seen it.

SAS afaik have never attacked a gang for "robbing a police station" the military was around at some point to get x amount of weapons back that was gained rather wierdly at late hours by like 2 people

I’ve seen it happen a few times not just the one with the army

bit of a weird thing to say, no? this isn't causing any drama or anything that would directly break the forum rules, so why should it be deleted?

I’ve seen reports closed after mentioning the police a few times that’s why I mentioned it probably shouldn’t have 

You are aware that you are playing on a roleplay server, yes?

No Kate I thought I was playing fortnite

 

[Delilah]

You are aware that you are playing on a roleplay server, yes?

Nah kate I wasn’t aware to be honest, thought it was game of CSGO

i expected to have Npas and Blackhawk over my arse when I go to the shop n everything.

its a conversation that’s being high topic for awhile now, crims and police will never see eye to eye. I remember the day Barry came around all gang turfs and told all gangs to fight more out of the city as it would be less heat, but yet when people fight out of the city now even if it’s up in Paleto there is still police there.

i will never agree with police 3rd partying fights and will never agree with the “snatch and grab”, if us as civs have to value our lives then quite frankly police should have to value theirs when they’re pushing gangs/gang turfs where they know a fight is going to happen and or is already happening, I’ve seen this happen way too often and happened when I was in Ballas too.  Hustlers were mid gunfight with us and instead of trying to dispurse everyone police then decide to run in, 10 firearms (with a gang turf filled with over 20 people) and start chasing people and causing a gun fight between cops and Ballas, and their excuse to that was “oh we didn’t know” 

Police will always and forever have the upper hand since they have access to way more than what crims do, and at the end of the day police can go back to the PD grab more ammo and more armour pieces and come back.

ive seen the server from both sides and neither sides are great, but the state of the police and how their equipment has been used over the past couple of months has changed the server, police never used to charge mid fight they would wait till the fight finished and or just warrent people for their behaviour, quite frankly yes cops should be quite hands on when it comes to gangs shooting but I still don’t believe that “hands on” should be pushing gang turfs and gang fights. 
 

and for all the cop mains that are saying it’s rare to see mrap and Blackhawk are straight up chatting shit, I’ve seen more of them 2 in the past 2 months than I have in over a year and a half. 
 

Anyways, I am my character my character is me, fuck the police

 

[d1xtr0_ttv]

No Kate I thought I was playing fortnite

Not a good idea, know from experience.

The server has in all honesty been damaged by the way police act and RP.

It is one of the leading reasons as you will check the player count on a Friday night and it will only be around 150-200, look back 6 months ago way closer to the max and at times a queue as well.

“It’s their job” it’s a game and at times I think police forget that, do everything to get an arrest off, by far the most win hungry group and with access to so much and it being such a large faction does make the overall experience of the server lacking.

This isn’t the opinion of one person or one particular group, but give or take the entire crim player base. 
 

Something needs to change before police don’t have anyone to throw their flash bangs at.

 

[Berkan21]

-1 Big no 

But a gang trying to stick around and trying to fight armed response is realistic instead of doing the big brain move of idk running away? its almost as if gangs aren't meant to directly clash head on with police much like irl.

I would class multiple armed people in the street shooting causing chaos and making the entire area a hazard to be in for citizens a bit of a terrorism issue.

In general i dont know maybe its just my mindset on police but if youre hanging round in a fight long enough that armed response turn up in numbers and your bright idea is to stay there and stick out the fight instead of attempting to run, thats not a police issue thats just dumb and unrealistic decision making.

this^^^^

dont fight the police head on if you stick arround a crime scene long enough for a large armed response to show up then sorry but you didnt quite understand this whole criminal stuff. If you then decided to still stay then dont be suprised that a fully armed police force in a large city is putting in effort to stop a large scale shootout. 

We make a big effort for everyone to be given a chance to leave (and be dealt with later) and issue many many warning before we confront anyone in the area additional time for you and your friends to stop shooting and leave. When ppl take the piss and keep shooting infront of a large armed response then those people should expect to be confrotnted at the end and at that point its not a "balance" issue anymore but a decision making issue. 

Its called "asymetric" balance both sides if you wanna put it that way have different tools they can utilize. "The crims" if you wanna call it that have speed and agility on their side which the armed response massivly lacks. The armed response has large calibar and firepower, if you can utilize your "strenghts" properly and try to head on fight the clearly better equiped players (which imo isnt the case btw but whatever) thats again bad decision making. 

I hope this cleared some of the quesions marks up, im happy to provide a more indepth look into how we operate to avoid any sort of confusion regarding procedeurs or balance going forward. 

These type of post are usually the result of a lack of emphatie and not understanding how the police side of things work, this is a two way issue btw not blaming anyone here cops have the same tunnel vision sometimes but thats why i think its important to communicate these things and clear things up so we can all enjoy our experience and not be confused about what each side does to on and another. 

 

[Nikolai]

I see police applying head armour on the streets, seen it many times, there is many videos of it happening aswell, this being said it’s always auth’d

they shouldn't apply them on the streets, but that's whole other thing that's not relevant to the suggestion per se.
and yes, it's always authed as it's a part of the normal firearms kit, firearms is meant to be "the top dogs" within police when it comes to gear

might need to be tested as I’ve seen many times a marksman pistol shooting the sniper and nothing happens, and before you say range, it’s within range

i'll happily test and relay back, i've done that before with the MRAP aswell.

CTSFO patrol quite regularly we have all seen it.

yes, but that's all down to how the current scale of APSTRA is, and how firearms seniors/command see things whilst patrolling
for anyone unaware of apstra, it's just a scale to see what it pre authed for the time and stuff, unsure of it's current degree atm

I’ve seen it happen a few times not just the one with the army

it's not happened as much as it might seem from what i know

nothing will change how can you expect change when they think there is nothing wrong let them rp with themselves cba with this one sided argument 

poor way of looking at things with all due respect, but if that's the way you feel, you're more than welcome to just read along

 

[Chilli]

see how you think gangs fighting gangs could be terrorism but it isn’t, it’s unlawful and it is making the area a hazard but it’s not political,  gang units should be fighting the crime not a terrorism unit.

CTSFOs also assist with high risk firearms issues. I think a war in the street with guns counts as high risk enough. Unfortunately you can't use any irl sources for many reasons.

1. Gangs are not like rpuk gangs they are quiet and most not as armed as a rpuk gamg

2. Police irl wont diclose anything regarading ctsfos or gang warefare in streets

No one is talking about a single situation but if you do want to speak about it last night- ballas tried to leave and police decided to gun down, mechanics-occult-hangabouts- random server people not just ballas. Where does the line end? We tried to leave and got sprayed? We were told to go and got shit on whilst trying to do so.

+1 on the option to minor downgrade on the police equipment or their ability of when they use it as being gunned gown by 99 at a shop robbery just isn't it. 

We all had a long chat last night with staff being there about the server and what it used to be and there is no way forward with the attitude of police now. 

A change in equipment for police or a lesser in their numbers for a max cap at situations should be something that's at least looked at. 

we are all here to have fun, not just police. 

ive played on servers with caps. Its not fun. For either side. Like say 5 gang and 7 police. If we see all 5 gang members then it removes any fear. Unlike times where people have shot police from the crowd etc

 

[Timmy Abeba]

could unfortunately say the same about gangs, both sides have people with a win mentality, no way to avoid it and a suggestion won't change peoples mindset

Realistically, how can a gang have a win mentality when they physically cannot win? If there is MRAP, Blackhawk and 20 Firearms with h.a and sigs out there is no way any gang is going to win against police, and even lets say a gang does win ONE situation they will still end up losing in the long run. Police have a very different perspective to crims because they dont have to grind for literally hours upon end to make money to be able to get a half-decent gun (Shit compared to what feds get) and then to lose it because police all have COD loadouts. Its tiring and to be honest i can 100% see why crims are tired of it.

 

[Delilah]

this^^^^

dont fight the police head on if you stick arround a crime scene long enough for a large armed response to show up then sorry but you didnt quite understand this whole criminal stuff. If you then decided to still stay then dont be suprised that a fully armed police force in a large city is putting in effort to stop a large scale shootout. 

Okay…. So mid gang fight when you’re trying to grab your injured? Wanting to make sure that your RP friends/family get out safe, and instead of trying to protect lives like the police are meant to do just want to focus on the gun fights? 

I’ve seen this happen multiple times myself and had it happen to me, where police have had a fight with a gang, the fight is over and police are still running round like headless chickens, provided no sort of roleplay at all and then complain when people bleed out. 
 

There has to be RP there to go along with, it’s merely impossible at the moment to roleplay correctly with police, the only time you get some sort of roleplay is in the cells once the police have got what they want. 
 

Also there is no sort of fair warnings, I’ve been in situations where I’ve been told to leave once I’ve tried to have a laugh and tried to roleplay and then within 5 minutes I’m shot and that’s it done? 
 

And the whole thing of shooting infront of police, hold up let me just radio to the opposing gang and tell them to stop shooting at me as there is police infront of me, you need to understand from a gang side. You are actively been shot at, you’re not just going to stop trying to defend yourself just because they are police there lmao.