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Right, a situation today led to both of the following rules being broke, [SIZE=medium](6.2.5) Retreating to a blue zone while being engaged in a gunfight is not allowed.[/SIZE] and [SIZE=medium](6.2.1) You must not attempt to kill anyone in a blue zone [/SIZE], thankfully both parties, me and police were able to clear it up with the help of the staff team, I think these rules are quite conflicting, we are engaged on police officers and them going into the bluezone is forbidden but if they do it they still can't get shot? My suggestion is to adapt both the rules into one, something along the lines of, You must not attempt to kill anyone in a blue zone unless already engaged in a gunfight with them.

What I don't mean by this is; You can shoot all police or people with guns in that bluezone, no I don't mean that, what I mean is those you were shooting at before they were over an invisible line are still liable to being shot, freshspawns or just people wondering around are still not to be shot at but those who are being shot at half a second before should be shot imho.

The reason I see the 2 rules listed above as conflicting is because obviously 2 wrongs don't make a right but if fleeing to a bluezone is a rulebreak I don't see why they can't be shot. A blue patch on the map shouldn't mean you are protected from bullets you are already being shot by before entering.

Once again thanks to staff and those police members for clearing this situation up with me and hopefully an adaption or rethink to these rules could make future situations around bluezones less complicated, especially the fact playing with borders which are coloured on a map is quite hard when you are worrying about getting your hat knocked off by bullets. Thanks

 
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“(2.2) Random Deathmatch (also known as RDM) - Shooting at someone without engaging in any form of quality role play (eg. Giving enough time for them to comply with your order. Count downs are not considered quality roleplay, please at least attempt to create an interesting roleplay story before considering shooting.) is considered RDM. (Punishment is a ban).”

This is the one and only rule stating about initiation. I feel that there needs to be an expansion for initiation. A section for it like how NLR has it’s own section etc.

Initiation needs to be clear when you can disable vehicles, shoot people out of vehicles, shoot air crafts, shoot people etc. I’m not sure if other’s will agree with me but I feel that how initiation works on this server is quite dodgy and has massive grey areas as “quality roleplay” is an opinionated topic, it cannot be measured. I don’t know I just think initiation should be expanded on and further developed as at the moment it’s very quesionabe.

For example, initiation on tires: this is a hige grey area because as far as I know  there aren’t any rules stating you need to initiate on vehicles (except for MRAPS for ramming) so technically right now you should be able to just open fire on the tires to disable a vehicle, however this is still something which is punishment. After shooting out the tires you would obviously then have to initiate on the person before shooting at them in any way.

Let me know what you guys think. Personally I feel that how the * initiation rules work are perfect and RPUK should do something similar or the same as theirs.

 
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bloom said:
“(2.2) Random Deathmatch (also known as RDM) - Shooting at someone without engaging in any form of quality role play (eg. Giving enough time for them to comply with your order. Count downs are not considered quality roleplay, please at least attempt to create an interesting roleplay story before considering shooting.) is considered RDM. (Punishment is a ban).”

This is the one and only rule stating about initiation. I feel that there needs to be an expansion for initiation. A section for it like how NLR has it’s own section etc.
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Actually i think you'll notice that it does infact not mention "initiation" what so ever. Instead it says to engage in high quality roleplay before throwing bullets. 

combine that rule with common sense (1.7) And it should be pretty clear, besides, if you add more rules encouraging "initiation" and how players should go about doing it would supress how we roleplay.

Rebels and police have already established their own kind of "rules" (i like to call it "rebel etiquette") which has become the standard that most people will use, such as "initiation for friends" wich there is no mention of in the rules. Arguably, if you see your friend get shot, you would retaliate and shoot back wich to me sounds like common sence. 

Every situation is different, thats a good thing, if we make the rules for initiating specific then we would probably have more of the same thing every time and the community would fall over to the people who should play KOTH.

Regarding the point about disabling vehicles, did you consider the fact that there is a person inside it? and by shooting the vehicle you are effectively shooting at the person driving it? again, there is no rule saying you have to initiate but according to "Rebel etiquette" you should.

If this point is brought up at staff meeting id like for staff to discuss what "initiation" actually is, on one end initiation isnt real and it rather should be up to common sence when the fight breaks out, on the other end initiation helps clarify to all parties involved when the fight starts (potentially with Little to no roleplay at all).

 
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Is it possible for rule 5.4 to be changed from 

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[SIZE=medium](5.4) [/SIZE]When you are revived/downed:

[SIZE=medium]You may not actively enter or continue any combat situation for the next 15 minutes.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]to [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium](5.4) [/SIZE]When you are revived/downed:

[SIZE=medium]You may not actively cause, create or continue any combat situation for the next 15 minutes.[/SIZE]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The word "Enter" is quite vague can be misleading, because technically you can enter a combat situation in the next 15 minutes but you can't cause one yourself e.g "Put your  hands up before I shoot you" however sometimes you are forced into a gunfight (especially as a police officer). Say you shoot tires and they jump out and shoot at you, you're technically entering a gunfight before the 15 minutes and breaking 5.4 but you are forced into a situation that you did not cause or create. 

 
It appears that police gain what i perceive to be an unfair advantage when it comes to greenzones.

Specifically in relation to threats to rubber/tase those for having an un-back-packable weapon , an illegal vehicle , but also in general it seems unreasonable that police officers can effectively diasable you , detain you , take everything you have , etc . and we as rebels have to defense as any such option would breach gz rules.

The rule that currently best covers what im saying is :

(6.0.1) You must not abuse the boundaries of any marked zone on the map. Using the boundary to troll/taunt or temporarily gain protection is forbidden.
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it could be interpreted that by 'hanging around' greenzones in order to enforce actions as a police officer , you are abusing the protection afforded to you by the zone to gain temporary protection.

It is incredibly frustrating when you spawn your taru in airport and an officer is suddenly telling you he's scrapping it , an officer that seemingly appears out of knowhere and theres not a thing you can do because he will simply rubber you . 

 
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jamesjsm said:
It appears that police gain what i perceive to be an unfair advantage when it comes to greenzones.

Specifically in relation to threats to rubber/tase those for having an un-back-packable weapon , an illegal vehicle , but also in general it seems unreasonable that police officers can effectively diasable you , detain you , take everything you have , etc . and we as rebels have to defense as any such option would breach gz rules.

The rule that currently best covers what im saying is :

it could be interpreted that by 'hanging around' greenzones in order to enforce actions as a police officer , you are abusing the protection afforded to you by the zone to gain temporary protection.

It is incredibly frustrating when you spawn your taru in airport and an officer is suddenly telling you he's scrapping it , an officer that seemingly appears out of knowhere and theres not a thing you can do because he will simply rubber you . 
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Could not agree more. I feel as a rebel that a police officer initiating on you in a green zone in totally abusing 6.0.1. Once I got a out a quilin to help a dyeing friend. Then next second there is a hunter and loads more. They tell me to get out of the car or I'll be pulled out. There was nothing I could do to defend myself. No gun, I could not reverse. The only thing I could do was drive forwards hitting 5 officers that We're standing in my way. And hitting a car. That was my only escape. I also Feel that the VDM rule could be changed so if there is someone standing in front of your car stopping you from going anywhere you can continue to run them over. As IRL you would do the same to save your life. 

 
Hi guys, I hope you are all doing well, please give me feedback as to what you think of the below suggestions

New Life Rule For Police

5.5.

  • Police are exempt from the NLR rule
Reasoning for this is:

  • When in game and you are robbing the back for example, and there are 5 cops on scene, somehow you manage to kill all 5 of them now all 5 cops have to wait 15 mins before the can respond back to the bank - In real life it is impossible to kill the entire police force so to counter this the police officer is exempt from the NLR so he/she may respond back to the bank.
OR

  • Instead of the Police officer having to wait 15 mins they may rather wait 5 mins before responding again
 
Nabster said:
Hi guys, I hope you are all doing well, please give me feedback as to what you think of the below suggestions

New Life Rule For Police

5.5.

  • Police are exempt from the NLR rule
Reasoning for this is:

  • When in game and you are robbing the back for example, and there are 5 cops on scene, somehow you manage to kill all 5 of them now all 5 cops have to wait 15 mins before the can respond back to the bank - In real life it is impossible to kill the entire police force so to counter this the police officer is exempt from the NLR so he/she may respond back to the bank.
OR

  • Instead of the Police officer having to wait 15 mins they may rather wait 5 mins before responding again
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-1 if anything , stop anyone rebel or police from re attending the same situation... it’s already annoying that the police drag stuff out for hours by having a couple of them hide to keep it active , rebel’s tend not to go back as much when they’ve died . Besides your idea doesn’t account for the amount of rebel’s either , not to mention police already have advantages over rebel’s already 

 
jamesjsm said:
-1 if anything , stop anyone rebel or police from re attending the same situation... it’s already annoying that the police drag stuff out for hours by having a couple of them hide to keep it active , rebel’s tend not to go back as much when they’ve died . Besides your idea doesn’t account for the amount of rebel’s either , not to mention police already have advantages over rebel’s already 
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Everything strix has mentioned is true. If anything there should be an expansion to the 5.4 (I believe it’s 5.4) rule that doesn’t allow anyone to return back to an active gunfight but have this rule exempt to red zones,  remain them with the 15min NLR timer.

 
(10.4) The Ghosthawk is not allowed to shoot at any ground targets (below 25 m). No armed vehicle is allowed to be sling loaded and used to shoot at ground targets. (punishment is a ban)

Changed to:

(10.4) The Ghosthawk is not allowed to shoot at any ground targets (Including Landed Air Vehicles). No armed vehicle is allowed to be sling loaded and used to shoot at ground targets. (punishment is a ban)

Reason:

This allows for a wider range of flying styles to be used to escape the Ghosthawk, and then allows the 25m rule to still be in place for the police(NPAS Handbook). I do not understand why the 25m is there as many pilots regularly fly bellow this and they would have to increase altitude etc. I don't see any issues which could be caused my changing this as it is still the same thing enforced, but just does not allow for a "Ghosthawk Greenzone" to be a thing on the server. It may be there to stop ground targets being fired upon, but even if flying at 26m you can be shot at and it would still cause just as much harm from that distance.

 
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I know that ARAC should not do illegal things. But sometimes it would help a lot, both in our work as ARAC, as well as in roleplay to be able to lockpick vehicles to tow them. So my question is if it is possible to change the rules about lockpicking for ARAC? I would think it's ok if there are limitations. Just as long as we can, in a easier way tow vehicles.

Even though we have access to a new nice Tow truck, there's not much we can do more than repairing vehicles. Very often, vehicles that are in the middle of the road or vehicles crashed in police chases or the like are locked. And since there are no specific rules about it, most often the police will say they handle it, and impound the car. I myself feel like police events is our biggest chance of roleplay. But when we turn up, most often there is not much we can do.

The problem is that if the individual is capable of unlocking their car, they are often also able to drive the car. So no towing needed. When towing is needed, it is when the owner of a car can't drive it, for example the person is dead, or being transported to the police station. And then it's often locked, or the police will just impound it.

So as it is now we are loosing a lot of roleplay because of this, and the fact that we are not that helpful.

 
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tobbz said:
I know that ARAC should not do illegal things. But sometimes it would help a lot, both in our work as ARAC, as well as in roleplay to be able to lockpick vehicles to tow them. So my question is if it is possible to change the rules about lockpicking for ARAC? I would think it's ok if there are limitations. Just as long as we can, in a easier way tow vehicles.

Even though we have access to a new nice Tow truck, there's not much we can do more than repairing vehicles. Very often, vehicles that are in the middle of the road or vehicles crashed in police chases or the like are locked. And since there are no specific rules about it, most often the police will say they handle it, and impound the car. I myself feel like police events is our biggest chance of roleplay. But when we turn up, most often there is not much we can do.

The problem is that if the individual is capable of unlocking their car, they are often also able to drive the car. So no towing needed. When towing is needed, it is when the owner of a car can't drive it, for example the person is dead, or being transported to the police station. And then it's often locked, or the police will just impound it.

So as it is now we are loosing a lot of roleplay because of this, and the fact that we are not that helpful.
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+1

I fully agree with this and would like to see ARAC being able to do more roleplay as I had an encounter where Mr Tobbz was on ARAC duty and came across many crashed Vehicles on Devil's bend, he asked me if He could lock pick it and I unfortunately had to decline as it is against the law (Illegal)

This was a good roleplay opportunity for him and his friend that was doing arac with him at the time, however they were extremely limited to it.

I myself would much rather use ARAC if they are down the street and let them deal with it than stand there exposed impounding a Vehicle

 
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