Police Changes

[Ben Clark]

Before Reading this suggestion dont make it into a Crims vs Police in the comments we are all adults and everyone can put there opinions in how they are feeling about it.

I Think some of the police RP in the city lately is shocking I'm not saying all the police But some these police. I can say i can have good RP with some police. But some are acting like gang members posting tweedle posts trying to get a reaction. Driving past certain gangs and saying "Fuck that gang" when driving past" Police should be acting professional and not trying to trigger a gang.

I have done my fair share of shop robberies before and i noticed that firearms show up first it should not be firearms to first respond to the situation it should be Normal police turning up to the situation addressing the situation and requesting firearms if they are needed at the situation

I've also noticed unmarked police using vehicles as weapons lately. A situation starts and when it turns into a fight why are police using unmarked champions and non police clothing to run people over how are we meant to identify that is a police officer and not a civilian. Police have the equipment to counter a lot of situations in the city using vehicles should be a last resort such as if you ran out of ammo or your the only person left and its time to get out of there

its not only issue with gangs. Yesterday i was in my G6 Character we has a 1 PIC trying to lock pick there way outside prison they didn't get far as our response time was quick so G6 are running inside with tazers and Police was running in with firearms and have there AR's out ready to shoot. The PIC didn't even get close to escaping all the outside doors are still locked the most that PIC is going to have on him is a mele weapon. So why is is necessary for 4+ firearms to charge at the PIC with AR's. Police have other weapons to counter that such as tazers i can guarantee that 4+ Police with tazers are going to win against 1 prisoner trying to escape.

Now you cant buy a Marksman Pistol or repair them. I think its time for a police change to balance to the server. I think head Armor should be removed from the police to make it fair instead of police tanking bullets. Police have a big ass armory what most crim characters don't have. I just don't think head armor is not needed anymore if the marksman pistol is out of the picture. I think there also should be a limit on how many police turn up on a situations. I get some situations need a lot of police are needed to shut of a road when a bank robbery is going on. I have witnessed in the past 10+ police cars chase 1 drug dealer or chasing a stollen police vehicle i think only a set amount of police should be authorized at certain situations if one police member goes down then yh fair enough radio another unit to come in.

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with the clip above why is the police officer acting like a gang member "What's Up Ivan Pussy" that's the sort of stuff you see gang members do why is the officer being the aggressor there?

I thought i would make this suggestion as I'm seeing many gangs dropping in the server and a lot of gang turfs are very quite. I will say my self i dont enjoy playing my crim character as much any more. I think the balance between police and crims is a mess we should be working together to sort the issue out between us getting everyone's opinions and sorting the issues out. Its not about winning or loosing its about how long a situation goes on for and enjoying the RP both sides. Most times with police and crim situations are not lasting long at all id rather have a 20min - 2h roleplay situation than a 5 minuet roleplay situation boom arrested and in prison.

 

[Nikolai]

I just don't think head armor is not needed anymore if the marksman pistol is out of the picture.

it's still somewhat needed(shock police main says this lol) but if the marksman has been removed/not sold anymore for x reason, it might be worth polcom discussing if a change should go in about helmet armor policies

I have witnessed in the past 10+ police cars chase 1 drug dealer or chasing a stollen police vehicle

i've only really seen that happen when fuck all else was going on in the server, but it's a valid point

with the clip above why is the police officer acting like a gang member "What's Up Ivan Pussy"

not everyone can act professionally, just something you need to expect at this point


might be worth gang leads to try and get a meeting going with polcom instead of a suggestion(nothing wrong in this suggestion) to see what can be done from both sides to possibly make it more enjoyable for everyone

 

[AlexBarclays]

I agree with whats been said here. I can't stress enough how long it takes of peoples IRL time to earn money, buy guns, buy cars, buy armor and bandages, containers, shops and whatever else a crim needs just for police to be able and swoop in and take stuff so easily and win almost any situation all the time, especially when it comes to gunfights with police. Don't wanna veer off topic too much there. But the W mentality and shocking RP from police is getting worse over time (not calling out all police but there is a fair few). A few examples as of recent:

Ballas had pawn shop taken from them after hostile encounters with feds for 2 weeks and then as we are getting our shop taken from us a police officer decides to take a selfie with the shop knowing what they are doing trying to wrile us up. What kind of RP is that? You've just gotten your win and then to follow it up with taking a multi million dollar business, you now decide to show off to the whole server as if you are untouchable with whats going on and that you've taken something long standing from a gang that's very valuable. Kinda shocking, nothing good from a police stance coulda came from that interaction except piss a lot of people off. Seems like baiting to me but I guess that's subjective.

Ballas also trying to do bobcat. We have multiple hostages and as we are shooting the guards to get to the money (literally the only way to get to the money is to kill the guards) police breach to "preserve life". Police came in with their SIGS, head armor, flashbangs and massacred everyone including the hostages. It really seems like they didn't care to the RP situation or even try to create RP and just wanted the win which they got. Not even a chance for escape as barley any words were spoken from the police side, just breaching. (these are just 2, I could go on for longer but its a waste, I think the point has been provided).

As shown above officers calling people pussies and then again on Bens initial post just the sheer amount of unnecessary actions from police. I'm not gonna sit here and just shit on police only, us crims could also be doing a few things better too but police is exceptionally bad right now. (Again not all but a fair few).

The community has been complaining for awhile now but it seems not much is done except being told to make a complaint in game but it seems we're past that and things need to be talked with OOC. Seems almost impossible to have a fun encounter with police now a days with both sides satisfied as there's almost always a new report every single day due to someone losing (both sides).

 

[Nikki Nixon]

+1 everything you said is bang on mate. and as if he tased 2 people with guns and insta cuffed them. Also may i add to this with the taser and beanbag gun. Why are they remotely allowed in GUN fights. Non lethal should not be allowed in lethal gun fights. The police know its a one tap / cuff. So its abusing the system of it IMO. IRL you wouldnt pull a taser or a beanbag gun if someone is shooting at you with "put you in the forever box flying metals" It makes 0 sense. No other gang or faction can so that so why should they. It should be used for its intended use not to win GUN fights.

 

[Welsh]

not everyone can act professionally, just something you need to expect at this point

Why should people need to expect subpar RP from what is meant to be a professional faction though? Not having a personal dig at you or the officers involved in this situation, just seems odd imo

 

[Dwayne Spike]

Give crims blackhawk and MRAP so they can get a taste

 

[Pest]

Although I agree with a good few of your points, your 1st, 2nd and 3rd points should really be brought up within RP, PolCom takes things like that seriously and in game complaints could fix some of those issues, Making a post on the forums to force the police to change just wont really happen like that.

 

[Pest]

+1 everything you said is bang on mate. and as if he tased 2 people with guns and insta cuffed them. Also may i add to this with the taser and beanbag gun. Why are they remotely allowed in GUN fights.

This is something they shouldn't be doing as part of their training but it CAN be used if its a last resort, for example in that video the guy started shooting and there was no other option but to tase the guy with the gun, Although I'm not a massive fan of the probie diving at a guy actively shooting

 

[Cheddar]

I agree with the rough premise of the suggestion, whilst I do disagree with some particular examples / points you've raised but as you said yourself it's a minority causing the majority of issues. What I've seen time and time again is claims / suggestions made on the forums with little actual proof to substantiate them, or people very intentionally twisting the facts situations to make one party look worse than they really were.

If there was a more robust process of gang leaders raising specific examples to PolCom, backed up with the clips from the situation in question, then I hope that the individual people causing these issues can be dealt with in one way or another. I don't think making a blanket "fix police" suggestion is going to do much good for anyone really '

 

[Ben Clark]

Although I agree with a good few of your points, your 1st, 2nd and 3rd points should really be brought up within RP, PolCom takes things like that seriously and in game complaints could fix some of those issues, Making a post on the forums to force the police to change just wont really happen like that.

The thing is its easier to mention it all on the forums ive made many complaints at MRPD front desk and no one gets back to you so i dont know where to go from there if its not getting delt with in RP

 

[Avion Solar]

The thing is its easier to mention it all on the forums ive made many complaints at MRPD front desk and no one gets back to you so i dont know where to go from there if its not getting delt with in RP

Have you ever asked about what happened to your complaints? if so what were you told?

 

[Avion Solar]

Ok So I police main it is well known but I have had a read through this post a couple of times now and do have a couple of comments to make about it, in terms of full disclosure I was aware of this video before this posted as I was asked to have a chat with the probationary constable in it. And I agree with you about the attitude of both officers involved. Members of the Los Santos Police Service should be acting in a professional manner however this in an in-character issue. Now this time last year we had the professional standard team that would look into things like that however it has since disbanded and each unit handles looking into issues for its own officers. Personally, I am not a big fan of this as it makes it harder for people to be impartial IMO and also removes centralised regulation of standards thus making them easier to drop. PSDF didn’t work in the end people didn’t want to do it after awhile and it died off but maybe there should be a middle ground someone who monitors the complaints and ensures they’re dealt with and also deals with the individual who made the complaint?

Next we move on to the shop robberies. while I see what you're saying and IRL it should be response attending these first however in the city all officers can go to any despatch. Let us look at this afternoon, as a firearms officer have responded to around 5 shop robberies. The reason for this? nothing else was happening and i didn't even have my rifle with me when i attended them because it wasn't needed. So being as this is a video game and we should be enjoying ourselves are we expected to just sit around and do nothing until some one pulls a gun I would argue not. What I would suggest however is something that started to be implemented a few months go and that is firearms officers keeping rifles in the weapon safes until they respond to a firearms incident. however. This is a 2 way street if the risk to officers gets too high because of things like shootings and kidnappings then firearms officers are authorised to carry their rifles because the time it takes to get the weapons out of the boot is enough for the officer to be car to be killed. What I would suggest is that the bar to proactively carry rifles is raised.

I agree that officers should not be unmarked for getting involved in gun fights however by the same token i believe that gangs should be marked in some way if they get involved in firefights my reasoning is that there are cases when individuals in all black just start shooting at officers now there are civs in area the police think the situation is over then a seemingly random individual starts shooting officers. This seems random until it turns out its the same gang. it also leads to innocent people being shot in error. I dont think this part of my response should just be for Civ V police i think when it comes to civ V civ it should be a think too. That being said I also understand the RP aspect of it that IRL gangs wont always advertise themselves so its a sticky one. If you do get information about police engaging in these activities its an in RP issue and there are police policies in place to deal with it.

With regards to the Gruppe 6 prison incident lets us look from the police perspective what information was passed to th epiclike over the radio? Was it communicated what was happening because if it was then I agree it was out of proportion however if it wasn’t the Police only know that there is an escape attempt happening they don't know if its a gang with weapons breaking someone out or a simple incident as you have described. If the information was passed once again raised in IC then it can be looked into and changed made it policy to deal with it we have recently done a fair few joint training with G6 so this is something that could be brought up at one of the communications between the factions



In relation to the helmet armour I think it should be controlled more and used less a much as I love the aesthetic of wearing a helmet there is a time and a place for it however it is used far too often right now. I hope that now marksman pistols are gone that helmet armour will be used less



My final point would be in regard to the number of officers chasing someone there is already a policy in place for pursuits. i dont think adding an authorisation or limiting numbers would be useful above what is already in place however it needs to be enforced more

Now apologise for the spelling and I hope what I have said here makes sense in general think you make some very good points however most of them appear to be IC problems and as such there are some things IC that can be considered to look into this

 

[Dwayne Spike]

Now apologise for the spelling and I hope what I have said here makes sense in general think you make some very good points however most of them appear to be IC problems and as such there are some things IC that can be considered to look into this

To be honest it wouldn't make much sense in character for a crim to go to MRPD and start making complaints. Would look very bad in RP if a gang walked in to the building ringing the bell saying oh i need to make a complaint , not saying they should just start lighting people up but you get what i mean.

Now that marksman pistols are essentially unobtainable , any conflict with police is essentially unwinnable. With the fact police have access to heavy weaponry , MRAP and blackhawk with a sniper hanging out of it , Crims are just going to think what's the point. Recently at bobcat im sure ballas can attest to this , the fact we were breached because we had to kill the guards inside is pretty much a joke. Think of what goes into doing a activity like that , a thermal drill which takes a lot to get (Value of 1.2-1.5 mil) explosive putty and bringing guns along to do something that was meant to be fun for crims. To lose all that because suddenly now they decide the guards are worth saving is crazy.

While crims dont have to do all the paperwork that police do , we have to sit there for hours grinding just to be able to buy a weapon and thats not even including the ammo. Police get all the equipment for nothing and can just respawn and rearm. I do understand however that police are meant to be strong , they are not just able to wiped and call it a day , but us crims need at least a fighting chance. Seeing head armour on a dog was the final straw for me i think , why the hell is that even a thing? (Is funny though)

 

[Kate Anderson]

Before Reading this suggestion dont make it into a Crims vs Police in the comments we are all adults and everyone can put there opinions in how they are feeling about it.

I Think some of the police RP in the city lately is shocking I'm not saying all the police But some these police. I can say i can have good RP with some police. But some are acting like gang members posting tweedle posts trying to get a reaction. Driving past certain gangs and saying "Fuck that gang" when driving past" Police should be acting professional and not trying to trigger a gang.

I have done my fair share of shop robberies before and i noticed that firearms show up first it should not be firearms to first respond to the situation it should be Normal police turning up to the situation addressing the situation and requesting firearms if they are needed at the situation

I've also noticed unmarked police using vehicles as weapons lately. A situation starts and when it turns into a fight why are police using unmarked champions and non police clothing to run people over how are we meant to identify that is a police officer and not a civilian. Police have the equipment to counter a lot of situations in the city using vehicles should be a last resort such as if you ran out of ammo or your the only person left and its time to get out of there

its not only issue with gangs. Yesterday i was in my G6 Character we has a 1 PIC trying to lock pick there way outside prison they didn't get far as our response time was quick so G6 are running inside with tazers and Police was running in with firearms and have there AR's out ready to shoot. The PIC didn't even get close to escaping all the outside doors are still locked the most that PIC is going to have on him is a mele weapon. So why is is necessary for 4+ firearms to charge at the PIC with AR's. Police have other weapons to counter that such as tazers i can guarantee that 4+ Police with tazers are going to win against 1 prisoner trying to escape.

Now you cant buy a Marksman Pistol or repair them. I think its time for a police change to balance to the server. I think head Armor should be removed from the police to make it fair instead of police tanking bullets. Police have a big ass armory what most crim characters don't have. I just don't think head armor is not needed anymore if the marksman pistol is out of the picture. I think there also should be a limit on how many police turn up on a situations. I get some situations need a lot of police are needed to shut of a road when a bank robbery is going on. I have witnessed in the past 10+ police cars chase 1 drug dealer or chasing a stollen police vehicle i think only a set amount of police should be authorized at certain situations if one police member goes down then yh fair enough radio another unit to come in.

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with the clip above why is the police officer acting like a gang member "What's Up Ivan Pussy" that's the sort of stuff you see gang members do why is the officer being the aggressor there?

I thought i would make this suggestion as I'm seeing many gangs dropping in the server and a lot of gang turfs are very quite. I will say my self i dont enjoy playing my crim character as much any more. I think the balance between police and crims is a mess we should be working together to sort the issue out between us getting everyone's opinions and sorting the issues out. Its not about winning or loosing its about how long a situation goes on for and enjoying the RP both sides. Most times with police and crim situations are not lasting long at all id rather have a 20min - 2h roleplay situation than a 5 minuet roleplay situation boom arrested and in prison.

NGL, I like your post. I agree with the majority you wrote here. I'm a Chief Inspector for two years now and I can tell you those points are frequently on my agenda. The problem is though, it's like with any larger group in society. Some stick to the line they should walk on and some don't. It is down to every higher up in police to enforce those points. Points like external effects of behaviour (which I personally see just as fail RP if you act like gangster in uniform), attendance and balance of incidents or pursuits (very frequent topic), roleplaying situations out etc. Those are unfortunately no suggestions, those are paramount goals.
So coming back to being a large group in a society. Enforcing rules in an artificial environment that doesn't have direct consequences or only soft punishment is hard. Especially if you can do whatever you want as long as you are not reported (to the superior of or ooc) or caught. And I'm not talking about server rule break. Unless someone is reporting this fail RP to us higher ups or this 10:1 drug deal chase, then we can't act on. Then further more, you educate and warn and push people to do the right thing, they turn around "yeah whatever" and just do it anyway.
It is a pain in the ass to manage this large police force, since people come and go, many have very different concepts and ideas of what is fair. The 8th car of the pursuit should think of: hey wait a minute what has this guy done? We are too many cars, I'll break off. That is very rare, since the majority here are young lads below 30yo and attention seeking wh***s (sry ), so what do they do when something is happening? GO HAVE A LOOK!!!

So you will have very quick too many police attending for a very well planned shop or bank robbery with your 5-6lads and outside are like 20 police with 1 interceptor and 1 helicopter and 1 drone and 4 firearms cars, you think wtf?!

So unless a senior is managing actively what's going on, you won't find many normal police constable that's will regard the bigger picture unless they want to or have experienced the other side.

The balance point: yes there has to be some kind of balance and from police it is reviewed regularly in view of the state of the server/daily happening. I'm sure the head armour thing will be reviewed and at some point MRAP and NPAS 99/sniper will be reviewed, because that's the job of the commanding seniors and police command. If you think you can bring forward good arguments (no whining or waffle) address directly the respective commanding seniors OOC and chat.

Make sure to name, because if you say "police is doing this", you are generalizing. You said yourself some do it some don't. That's exactly my view point, some are no worries and some are big trouble. But those positions alter over time and you begin from the start to educate and teach and fight for the right thing: roleplay and somewhat fairness

Cheers
Peace
(If you find nonsense or grammar errors you can keep them, wrote this on my phone lol)

PS: Bottom line those are not to be suggested changes, but constant goals and guidelines to follow.

 

[Ben Clark]

Have you ever asked about what happened to your complaints? if so what were you told?

This what you mentioned is a big issue. A person has had a bad experience with a police officer in RP so the person goes through the effert in fileing a detailed complaint. Why should that person chase the complaint up. You leave your phone number on the complaint form. The officer should be spoken to by a higher up police to tell him what his done wrong then contact the person who made the complaint and tell that person what you done to resolve the issue. Even if they dont pick up the phone leave them a text. At no point the person who makes the complaint should have to chase it up. Why make the complaint forms if no one is getting updated on the situation it just makes it look like they are not botherd then people are not going to fill out complaints no more

 

[Chilli]

What I would suggest however is something that started to be implemented a few months go and that is firearms officers keeping rifles in the weapon safes until they respond to a firearms incident. however. This is a 2 way street if the risk to officers gets too high because of things like shootings and kidnappings then firearms officers are authorised to carry their rifles because the time it takes to get the weapons out of the boot is enough for the officer to be car to be killed. What I would suggest is that the bar to proactively carry rifles is raised.

Issue us we tried this and some gangs ruined it for the rest, As soon as they knew we wasn't proactively carrying (Via probable meta means but not pointing fingers at anyone or said gang) Gangs started to be very aggressive. As soon as we proactive again that same gang piped back down.

 

[Chilli]

Seeing head armour on a dog was the final straw for me i think , why the hell is that even a thing? (Is funny though)

While @1A3 wears the helmet i dont think he actually has helmet armour on because I dont think it has a great hitbox to protect him

 

[Dannalad]

just to chime in here, with regards to police "acting professionally at all times", it isn't unrealistic for an officer to say what was said (what's up Ivan pussy?). were there a formal complaint made to the police would the officer be dealt with for it? absolutely, respect and courtesy being a large part of the police code of ethics. unfortunately police officers are human beings not robots, you build relationships and rapport with the people you interact with regularly.

OOC experience here (unsure if appropriate) but if i am engaging with the member of the public or a suspect, that I have good knowledge of and have interacted with on a number of occasions, I will be more relaxed, the police have not and never have had a "blanket behaviour" policy other than racism, sexism and the like. you treat people in a manner that is appropriate for the situation, you either want RP or you want robots.

Whilst i completely agree that complaints should be actioned, if this is RP, are we at least going to RP it realistically, or is it going to be an idealised version of the police. I would suggest that should police conduct become formally enforced by command, there should be clear guidelines, policy and officers should have the chance to justify or defend their actions. From what I have seen in my admittedly short time in the server is that PSD doesn't appear to exist anymore. should criminals have a system for a fair prosecution and the right to defend themselves, so should police officers, remember gang, the police are the public and the public are the police.

I guess what i'm trying to say is this, if it is to be formally enforced there needs to be clear policy, an investigation independent of management (presenting the findings to management) and above it IT MUST BE REASONABLE

 

[VikRambo]

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with the clip above why is the police officer acting like a gang member "What's Up Ivan Pussy" that's the sort of stuff you see gang members do why is the officer being the aggressor there?

Since you've used me an example, I'll add this. CONTEXT IS IMPORTANT. You can't just use an evidence clip and then say this is bad RP. There is a reason why Ivan has not made a complaint or made this post. What you don't know is my cop has interacted with Ivan Kane and his group many times and has a rapport with him. Literally a minute before this clip, I was in a foot chase with Ivan when he got picked up by his boys and he shouted "SEE YA LATER WATNEY YOU PUSSY", Hence in RP I thought it would be funny to say what's up IVAN PUSSY as I happen to come across him by chance coming back to the previous spot. Why hasn't Xavier the other person shooting, made this post? Again in RP he knows me well and we have a rapport, he found the whole interaction to be very funny so did Ivan once he calmed down about losing an expensive gun. My RP is many thing and half the crims in the city can back me but it is not shit or low RP. If you want us all to act like robocops you'd have dead city with no personality across anyone. We are not bots or NPCs, we are humans and hence act like humans.

Secondly, not sure if you were addressing my clip with the using unmarked non police cars, I was in the banshee because you can even see in the clip our car was stolen, I had picked up the probie to go back to PD when Ivan just happened to be getting dropped back. Also your points about not using non-lethals in a lethal situation? What was I supposed to do in that situation? put my hands up and hope he stops shooting? What was the probie meant to do? You think after they killed me they weren't gonna frag the probie? Leave it out mate, don't be silly, this is going back to the infamous rubber bullets arguments from Arma 3 when a single PCSO took down 9 UNMC soldiers robbing HM Treasury with just rubber bullets and cuffs. If you are so worried about being tased, then shoot from outside the taser radius. Only select AFOs carry beanbags on normal patrol so I'll leave addressing that to one of them lads.

 

[Pest]

Only select AFOs carry beanbags on normal patrol so I'll leave addressing that to one of them lads.

For this nowadays its (I think) Mandatory to have at least 1 beanbag gun in every AFO's car as a non lethal option although not a lot of us really do it, I personally love going out with the beanbag gun as its a means for everything to not end in a bloody mess.