Player Tags vs Tilda key

[ICE]

So, for the past months I have been reading a lot of ban reports and also took the time to look at the evidence video's. 
Within the video's you will frequently see two things:
1) a player A uses the tilda key (by accident, who knows?) and get's a storm of remarks against him. We all know the story.
2) you see an other player B with 'player Tags' activated and gets the name (and locations when players are issuing complians in cover) of the player.

For me this goes two ways but both could be classed as 'metagaming'. Why is it that within a report; one player can call out the reporter because of usage of tilda key whilst the other player, with the player tag activated can continue the RP (getting in-game advantages, example name not matching) without any complaints? 
 

These are two ways of identifying a player where 1 is considert as a rule breaking action while the other uses an ingame-mechanic for his advantage and goes away freely...
Imho both should be concidert on the same scall. Because either way both situations can/will influence the gameplay... indirectly or even directly.

De-activating the "player tags display" seems a fair solution... what do you think?

@Ciaran

@Steph

@Neo

 

[Daanish]

I believe they can be manually turned off.

Otherwise this is a good idea. Maybe make it so that it shows player tags for gang members only?

 

[crazyone]

I believe it was tried once, but it didn't work and was very glitchy.

 

[Tidus]

With the lack of player faces and lack of clothing possiblities its hard to tell who is who without it. For instance ur gang members and which member is which, how do u give somebody an order without their name

 

[Washington]

With the lack of player faces and lack of clothing possiblities its hard to tell who is who without it. For instance ur gang members and which member is which, how do u give somebody an order without their name

If you're giving orders from the very start of an operation, if done correctly, you should always know where your guys are. 

I think names should be disabled automatically, for everyone, no matter how much you may deny it you know for a damn fact that when you see somebody with [TI] or [LOV] or whatever in their name that you base your next actions around that (whether that be deciding not to engage or changing your RP style) 

 

[Junior]

I believe we have tried turning off player tags for a period of time! It then got reverted due to people not really liking it (correct me if I'm wrong)

The only problem with turning off player tags is that you can't even recognise very close in-game friends, which is kind of unrealistic as in most cases you wouldn't simply forget someone's face if you know them so well. Arma 3 doesn't really have the option to customize faces so there needs to be a way to solve this issue too!

Direct quote from the Altislife.co.uk rules: [SIZE=medium]metagaming is the act of using information that your character would not know to influence your characters actions/reactions inside the game.[/SIZE]

In my opinion the current system is fine, if you want to turn off player tags; Go ahead and deactivate it by pressing Y then disabling it at Settings! If you don't want to be recognized by even your friends: just wear a Baraclava or a Shemaq!

That's just my 2 cents! Maybe some people disagree with me!

 

[ICE]

@Junior Is see where you are comming from but if you can't even recognise a verry close in-game friend by listening to his voice... it could also mean that you didn't do much RP with him... and don't know this "very close friend" )) Besides verry close friend will also and mostlikely be in the same gang, I think.)

It is not that I want to breakdown your opinion but IF you are in an RP session and you have a player tag activated, willing or not you will use that advantage into your gameplay (pointed out by Agent Washington). We could discuss the fact that active player tags influence the gameplay endlessly, I guess... but de-activating it 
could closedown that discussion, don't you think? Apart from not recognising verry close friends

With the lack of player faces and lack of clothing possiblities its hard to tell who is who without it. For instance ur gang members and which member is which, how do u give somebody an order without their name

I want to go a bit deeper on this one.... because if you are in a gunfight (on a larger distance)... I fully understand that you want to point out 'an order' to a 'friendly gangmember' but in no way you can do that without using the tilda key/scroll wheel and identifing your gangmember 'metagaming-wise'... because at a certain distance you cannot see the player tags even when he is speaking....

 

[Junior]

Surely you can recognize your close friends if you hear their voice! But that wasn't my point!

The nametag is the identification that people have in real life. In-game you don't have that recognition when looking at someones appearance, so you have to use the player tag  instead so you recognize people you know or not know.

If the player tags are removed and I walk past someone from my point of view it's just some stranger even if I met him and played with him in-game before. This means that I can no longer go and have a talk like: "Hey man! Good to see you again! It was really fun making that cider with you earlier! Did you manage to repair your truck that you slammed into Kavala pub on accident?"

Instead, you will now run past him without recognizing him at all. For all you know it could just be a random guy that you have never met at all. There's even a chance I'll hold him on gunpoint for his wallet or whatever, even though I would have never done that after the time we spent together.

Disabling the function will only open up more discussion I believe instead of ending it.

P.S This section of the forum is made for discussion!

 

[ICE]

Fair enough BUT.... if you pass-by your friend and he isn't speaking... wouldn't you also be needed to "metagame" his name with the same scroll wheel/Tilda key action to recognise him as a friend?  Otherwise it's just another stranger on the island....

 

[Junior]

Direct quote from the Altislife.co.uk rules: metagaming is the act of using information that your character would not know to influence your characters actions/reactions inside the game. So nope! Wouldn't count as metagaming

(unless he suddenly has a mask on and you decide to 'recognize' him anyway)

EDIT: Oh! I believe I misunderstood your question! Did you mean the fact that you have to 'scroll wheel' in order to confirm it's your friend?

 

[ICE]

Okey fair... but when do you determine when you correctly used the tilde-key (wich isn't allowed unless you wanna identify rule breakers)? Without knowing who's in front of you... My main point is: Players that use the tilda key or activate the "player tags" should be adressed in the same manor.

"Disabling the function" has it been done, really? And what type of discussion would we have? I don't know, tried the search option but could find an active thread of it.

I sometimes hear/read in reports: "I felt.." / "I assumed.." .. being metagamed.... Where and when do you draw the line between a "tilda key-way" and a "player tag activation"way...?  Imho "player tag activation" is an advantage wich authorize an ingame-metagaming-wize-mechanics

 

[Junior]

I suppose it´s a bit hard to explain over text! How about I clear it up a bit in a 1 on 1 chat on teamspeak? I think it's a bit easier to explain there, and I can instantly answer the questions you have!

Let me know if you're up for it! @INS ICE

 

[ICE]

I'm always up for a discussion

Edit: But now i'm going to bed

 

[crazyone]

I think, if possible, to go about name tags as they are on king of the hill, but tweaked for the liking of altis life, so you have to press a button, in order to see name tags, but only for the duration that you're keeping the button pressed.

But the way you can use the Tilde key. You can use it, see the name of someone, dont mention the persons name to anyone, and pretty much forget his name, but if he starts shooting at you (in terms of RDM), you keep RP'ing, hopefully survive the situation, but didn't kill him. - You how ever know his name because you used the tilde key.

It is purely for out of character purposes.

 

[Mycaelis]

To be honest, as Junior has mentioned, the existing name tags is about close range identification. People you know and recognise, friends, gang-members etc.

The problem with Tilde key is that people are using it for long range identification which shouldn't be possible, could you identify someone as a friend or foe when they are 100 meters away? Of course not.

I think within the same range as nametags, the use of tilde key is irrelevant, as you can see their name tags anyway. Anything beyond that is abusing a mechanic of the engine to allow identification of players at a range you shouldn't be able to identify them from.

Lets put a few scenarios into the mix shall we?

- Person A with a player name of [GANG] Steven robs you. You see a random person on a hill nearby watching intently with a gun out, but you don't know who they are. You get into a fight with Steven, you kill Steven... Do you shoot the guy on the hill instantly without a shadow of hesitation? Probably not.

Same scenario, but you've meta-gamed with Tilde key the guy on the hill with the notion of "I won't use it in my roleplay". The guy on the hill is [GANG] Bob.. same gang as Steven. Fight breaks out again... this time, you probably would shoot at the guy on the hill without any hesitation as you know he's probably going to shoot you as you killed his friend.

Is this kind of reason why the tilde key rule is in.

The only change to the rule I would like to see is that if you are within name-tag range, you can see their gang name. I think you should be able to identify gangs within this range, without the need of the squad.xml (XML should be used for when you're in a vehicle). So when I see 4x "Lord of Valhalla", although I may not know the individuals names, I should be allowed to recognise that they are all the same gang without it being considered Meta-gaming. It means that if you see a guy on the hill and get close enough for name-tags to appear, if you see he's in the same gang as someone you killed earlier or are in a fight with, they're fair game. Think of the gang-name as a gang symbol, or like an XML, a way to identify them, as in that sort of range, you'd probably notice a badge, or symbol for the gang if it were real life.

 

[ICE]

But the way you can use the Tilde key. You can use it, see the name of someone, dont mention the persons name to anyone, and pretty much forget his name, but if he starts shooting at you (in terms of RDM), you keep RP'ing, hopefully survive the situation, but didn't kill him. - You how ever know his name because you used the tilde key.

It is purely for out of character purposes.

 @crazyoneyou cannot use the tilde key pro-actively: "  we do not allow metagaming on any of our Altis Life Servers that we host."

Rule : 4C) Using tilde key for anything other than identifying people who break rules

The only way you can use it is when you see a rule breaker... but that's AFTER the situation. Like how you discribe it you are using the key BEFOR the situation. And also when doing that your undoubtly adapting your gameplay....

 

[crazyone]

If you adapt accordingly, you aren't great at roleplaying. Roleplay is acting, and actors usually know whats gonna happen, and they pretend like they don't know it.

It's as easy as pretending not to know. I could do it, everyone I know could do it, and would do it, so you should be able to do it, as well as everyone else. If they can't they might as not do it, or just not play? It's as simple as that.