Hostage situation

[crazyone]

@Ciaran the rules seems great, I don't know if you should add that the money has to be delivered physical by an officer, and not wire transferred.

 

[Simon-]

@Ciaran the rules seems great, I don't know if you should add that the money has to be delivered physical by an officer, and not wire transferred.

That is a police rule rather than a server rule I believe... Not something one should be banned for. 

Also @Ciaran I think a minimum number of officers needs to be added to the rules as has been discussed before. Maybe ~5-6? 

 

[unconnected]

In this situation I doubt you would be texting the police telling us you want some money for him... Although I am not condoning that as it sounds like a terrible RP situation...

Maybe we've taken members of a gang we're enemies with hostage and we want to negotiate with them, maybe we want the hostage to pay for his own release. There are numerous reasons why we shouldn't be forced to negotiate with the police and frankly I've had much better RP in every situation than the interactions I've had with police hostage negotiations which have all been terrible RP.

 

[RAMBEAU]

I have no problem that hostages are killed, I am taking issue with the fact that they were killed because they thought it had been too long, poor role-play IMO...

i agree with you, i think hostages should only be executed as a last resort. not just an excuse to exercise RDM

 

[unconnected]

i agree with you, i think hostages should only be executed as a last resort. not just an excuse to exercise RDM

If you truly understand RDM, then I think you're well off the mark in thinking anyone who has been taken hostage is a victim of it. Who spends 20K on zipties, carts someone off in a car and then shoots them dead without a single thing being said. I'd imagine the total is close to 0.

 

[Chelston]

Whilst playing as a civ in kavala, I was restrained, escorted to an ifrit, and driven up a mountain. I was then informed that he had just tested my blood and found me positive for ebola. He executed me.

I was secretly hoping for some great hostage role-play, but I guess he had more important things to do? 

 

[unconnected]

OK it looks like my plea for removing 1B isn't getting through, so here is why 1B in it's current form of

1B: The rebels MUST negotiate with the police.

doesn't work:

1. We can't negotiate with other gangs for the release of their men, going through the police doesn't make sense
2. We can't extort people anymore, they aren't going to allow it
3. We can't take UNMC hostages anymore, as negotiating through the police certainly doesn't make sense
4. We can't have fun RP like the sacrifices to cthulhu anymore as the end result is always death

I'm sure I could spend another 5 minutes coming up with more reasons, but from those alone can we please remove 1B from the list as it doesn't make sense and is just a complete cockblock for lots of great RP situations that the police have no business being involved in.

 

[Daanish]

You sir highlight the exact problem with many hostage situations...The person you have hostage is on your side and compliant in the situation and has nothing to loose. IMO it looks like you are only in it for the money and reflects badly on GC as a whole, this is a RP server. So Stop trying to con money out of the police and complaining when it doesn't go your way...

When I say fake, I didn't mean that they were on our side, I just meant that we had kidnapped and robbed a semi-well known player (Don't know who as it didn't start till after I left), and then asked them to be our hostage for a little longer so that we could actually do this. The main reason we used a "fake" hostage was so that we could set up this whole thing and have some really good RP rather than it being just a hobo in kavala who no one cared about.

 

[Simon-]

OK it looks like my please for removing 1B isn't getting through, so here is why 1B in it's current form of

1B: The rebels MUST negotiate with the police.

doesn't work:

1. We can't negotiate with other gangs for the release of their men, going through the police doesn't make sense
2. We can't extort people anymore, they aren't going to allow it
3. We can't take UNMC hostages anymore, as negotiating through the police certainly doesn't make sense
4. We can't have fun RP like the sacrifices to cthulhu anymore as the end result is always death

I'm sure I could spend another 5 minutes coming up with more reasons, but from those alone can we please remove 1B from the list as it doesn't make sense and is just a complete cockblock for lots of great RP situations that the police have no business being involved in.

@unconnected

Perhaps revised to?

1B: The rebels MUST engage in any negotiations with relevant parties.

 

[unconnected]

No, I still don't think we should be forced to negotiate with anyone. This is supposed to be an RP sandbox, where we can do anything. Make rules to protect from obvious abuse sure, but when the rules are in place to guide gameplay in a certain direction it just hampers creativity.

When the PLF guys did a series of sacrifices to cthulhu before xmas, for those involved it was excellent fun. They went the whole hog, chanting, smoke everywhere, beautiful location on the cliffs. We all knew that the end result was death, but we didn't care as it was FUN.

The point I'm trying to make, is if we get rules forced on us like having to negotiate then we curtail this creativity. If someone RDMs, or does piss poor RP then there are already existing channels to report that kind of behavior in.

Don't limit us.

 

[Edgar Ville]

We've been here before and it seems like half of the thread don't understand this...

Kidnapping and hostage taking are not the same things.
If you want to take someone prisoner to ultimately just kill them, you are abducting them, or for the sake of keeping this simple, it is a kidnapping.
A hostage is defined as: hostage

ˈhɒstɪdʒ/
noun
 

1. 
   
   a person seized or held as security for the fulfilment of a condition.
   
   
   
   

If you are taking someone hostage, by definition you need to RP it, otherwise you are not fulfilling any conditions other than murder.

Edit: Kidnapping; fine. Murder; fine. Hostage taking; needs to be roleplayed and negotiated.

 

[unconnected]

We've been here before and it seems like half of the thread don't understand this...

Kidnapping and hostage taking are not the same things.

If you want to take someone prisoner to ultimately just kill them, you are abducting them, or for the sake of keeping this simple, it is a kidnapping.

A hostage is defined as: hostage


ˈhɒstɪdʒ/
noun
 

1. 
   
   a person seized or held as security for the fulfilment of a condition.
   
   
   
   

If you are taking someone hostage, by definition you need to RP it, otherwise you are not fulfilling any conditions other than murder.

Edit: Kidnapping; fine. Murder; fine. Hostage taking; needs to be roleplayed and negotiated.

I don't think anyone here has any issues with the definitions because as soon as I start requesting anything from anyone (including the victim) he/she automatically becomes a hostage, I think some of us are more worried that there is a chance it will be codified into a rule that we have to negotiate with the police or a specific party.

 

[Ben_Banned]

You have to realize that the amount of hostage situations a day (about 3-5) and the amount they want (200k - 1m) for a hostage is RIDICULOUS. Why can't you just ask for a crumpets? tea? 5k max? We have NO PROBLEM letting you guys go if you ask for a crumpet or 5k for each hostage you have - absolutely none.

We tend to take hostages and ask for spike strips that works quite well, bank jobs are still an issue though.

 

[Simon-]

So the situation you have described above with PLF is clearly a kidnapping rather than a hostage situation so would be unaffected by these rules. 

Although I see where you are coming from I am unsure what the the best solution is, as these complaints tend to come from the civilian side with the intention of somewhat scripting police work which as you can guess would be rather dull. I understand your desire for creativity but as we have seen earlier in this thread the actions of rebels taking hostages is often monotonous with extortionate demands. 

I don't think I have ever seen anyone punished here for RP. I mean, you can do almost what ever you want as long as you use some common sense and RP everything... 

I don't want to see you constrained but I think the intention is only to encourage rebels to make an effort in negotiations rather than saying we are only accepting this and not actually having the conversation. Too often rebels seem reluctant to engage us with something creative and new, it gets tiring wading through same old repetitive stuff for the few glorious moments that people make an effort. 

I just think we need to up the creativity from both sides really. I'm all for as few rules as possible, but unfortunately there are too many people that need that in order to understand the game. Personally I would be happy if only one rule was added "Ransoms can only be demanded of genuine hostages" or something similar.

 

[Mr Laurens]

i was part of the hostage situation and i got a small part on record

 

[unconnected]

I personally don't bother taking police hostages anymore as I've not had great outcomes with them. Someone earlier in the thread said police value their life even more than rebels (a ridiculous notion, considering how much expense a geared out rebel has spent), but they are willing to sacrifice their colleagues over trivial sums of cash like 10K (I don't need 10K any more than I need 1mil, but it's more realistic than to say 10 quid).

I honestly think some sort of central pot which accrues money over time like the gold bars in the vault would be a better solution for the people who do use cash as a driver for a hostage scenario, as you could simply say there isn't enough money on hand to deal with it and then the hostage takers would know this too and you'd be able to continue negotiations till a price was agreed to.

Either way, I still don't like 1B as it doesn't make sense and even if it says relevant parties it's not any more helpful as who are the relevant parties for a given scenario.

As for your last comment, then yes, if someone is using a member of their own gang or a known friend to game the system (like the bounty hunter rules forbid), then they are deserving of punishment and this should be codified (unless it's for pure RP and the demands are trivial).

 

[Kris!]

Remember this, we'll negotiate as much as possible. It's all about the RP. But in RP we do not want you to get the gold. We have to stop you.

You always complain about negotiations but when you fire on officers and bring massive guns it gets boring. Create a good rp story and you might get some gold.

But we could say the same to you.

We can go to a bank and role play, yet police will come in with guns, start restraining people and with little discussion blow the RP out of the window.

These last few days have been horrendous.

If we PLF, UNMC or Ti or anyone attempted to role play the bank; we swiftly get shot down, regardless of the role play, police will role in to restrain, push weapons around and generally will not let anyone besides the police win. There's little chance of getting a single gold bar out of the treasury if we completely role play the situation. This has been confirmed by the Commander of police.

If we go to the treasury with the intention of killing every cop and taking every single gold bar, we get messages on Teamspeak along with forum posts pointing out that what we did is wrong and the police want role play.

Tell me, please.. what is it you want from us?

 

[JohnJoeegan]

To Do with bank jobs, This happens a lot....

 

[PLF Wolf]

also wanna point one thing here, 

if the hostage takers start execute hostage, put the police in a very very hard position that action are need to be taken i rather fast manor,

in real life the police will either try to calm down the situation or take lethal force to save the hostage, if a hostage taker are on a hill try to spot for he's fellow gang members and are killed in 1 shot , he can not report in at all what going on at the scen since he is dead,, that means that someone need to control the last know location of the guy, but in this case you guys assumed he got sniped by a police, 

by the metagame rule you guys can not know that, because you haven't been and investigated the guy who just got sniped, for example 

we tried to solve the situation like proper police dose but you guys failed RP big time in that case, by starting execute hostage without any reason really, it take's time for the police to get the money you are looking for,

i refereed to a  very very sad story but i true one, look at what happened in the grouser store in french, police stormed the area 4 ppl died but most hostage where alive,  you guys can not always think about what is best for your own sake, in the best of worlds you guys should get the money without any blood spilled , whats the point having a police when it always in your point  should lead to a rebel win and you guys taking a bath in money by fooling the cops

we tried to negotiate , but it ended up in a bloodbath because your gang assumed that police sniped your sniper on a hill witch was true but he died in 1 shot from behind so he can not report in anything at all towards the hostage taker's

this is just my point off the situation i am not accusing anyone just wanted to clear it up a little

Best regards CI ziN 

The same very very hard situation yesterday? in which it took what 6? 7? cops to kill 2 people who had no intention of fighting back? i had a 6k bounty and a zamak lol but you message me on TS after blowing my truck up that the situation was very dangerous, when your guys where the ONLY guys shooting? gg CI

 

[PeachMaster]

Holy fuck almost 60 replies. Yeah... I'm just going to leave... Have fun all! With what ever.. We are... Writing about.