- Location
- West Midlands, UK
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Economy Feedback Thread (The 27/07/16 update)
- Thread starter Neo
- Start date
- Location
- In a Ifrit or Orca by HM
After beeing able to play a few hours and test some of the new economy, I think we are getting on a good level.
The same with the leves for trucks/clothes etc.
I used some time trying some of the jobs ive not tested yet. And I feel this still needs some working on:
Crocodile:
Atm 1 Crocodile is 50 inventory space. And that is perfecly fine. Its a big reptile, so fair enough.
But you use alot of time doing the run. Around 40 minutes it takes, and that is if you have someone who can stand ready with a car to get to Luxyry shoes.
If not you would have to do a detour, and it will take around 5-10 minutes more i think.
When you prosess the Crocodile, you get 1 shoe, and 1 shoe ways 30 inventory space. Thats something I feel seems abit unrealistic.
If you catch a big crocodile, and you make shoes out of it, Im pretty sure you get more that 1 shoe from the whole crocodile skin.
And 1 shoe should not be so big that your not able to carry 1 pair of shoes on you even.
So suggestion:
Keep the 50 invetory space on a crocodile
Make it so you get 2 pair of shoes (4 shoes) out of one crocodile.
1 shoe should not way more than 10-12 inventory space in my oppinion.
Tobacco/cigarettes.
Tobacco is also a very long and hard run compared to what you get cash wise. But you get a HUGE ammount of XP if you decide to make cigarettes.
First when you dry the tobacco you get 10XP per item prosessed. You can carry 26 tobacco on you, meaning 1 carryall backpack gives you 260XP.
Meaning I got 780XP from drying the tobacco, then 780XP again for making that in to cigarettes.
The pay for 1 backpack was close to £700.
Suggestion:
Nerf the XP on said runs to half, to see if it balance out the run abit more.
Mby move one of the prosessors back to the main land, or move the Tobacconist to main land.
Licenses:
With the current prices on drugs I feel its getting to a realistic point.
The licenses might be abit to low, compared to the income you get tho.
I think the coke license should go back up to 10-12k
And get weed up to 8k.
This is because if there is 5 cops online. The income you get compared to the license price dont match.
(Dont get me wrong, the sell price of coke/weed etc is on a good lvl now! But license might be abit easy to get)
The same with the leves for trucks/clothes etc.
I used some time trying some of the jobs ive not tested yet. And I feel this still needs some working on:
Crocodile:
Atm 1 Crocodile is 50 inventory space. And that is perfecly fine. Its a big reptile, so fair enough.
But you use alot of time doing the run. Around 40 minutes it takes, and that is if you have someone who can stand ready with a car to get to Luxyry shoes.
If not you would have to do a detour, and it will take around 5-10 minutes more i think.
When you prosess the Crocodile, you get 1 shoe, and 1 shoe ways 30 inventory space. Thats something I feel seems abit unrealistic.
If you catch a big crocodile, and you make shoes out of it, Im pretty sure you get more that 1 shoe from the whole crocodile skin.
And 1 shoe should not be so big that your not able to carry 1 pair of shoes on you even.
So suggestion:
Keep the 50 invetory space on a crocodile
Make it so you get 2 pair of shoes (4 shoes) out of one crocodile.
1 shoe should not way more than 10-12 inventory space in my oppinion.
Tobacco/cigarettes.
Tobacco is also a very long and hard run compared to what you get cash wise. But you get a HUGE ammount of XP if you decide to make cigarettes.
First when you dry the tobacco you get 10XP per item prosessed. You can carry 26 tobacco on you, meaning 1 carryall backpack gives you 260XP.
Meaning I got 780XP from drying the tobacco, then 780XP again for making that in to cigarettes.
The pay for 1 backpack was close to £700.
Suggestion:
Nerf the XP on said runs to half, to see if it balance out the run abit more.
Mby move one of the prosessors back to the main land, or move the Tobacconist to main land.
Licenses:
With the current prices on drugs I feel its getting to a realistic point.
The licenses might be abit to low, compared to the income you get tho.
I think the coke license should go back up to 10-12k
And get weed up to 8k.
This is because if there is 5 cops online. The income you get compared to the license price dont match.
(Dont get me wrong, the sell price of coke/weed etc is on a good lvl now! But license might be abit easy to get)
- Location
- West Midlands, UK
At this time, I can't make the processor give back "more" items, what I could do is keep the weight at about 40, and increase the value to be worth more in terms of you no have a "line" of shoes.. however, a law may be passed against croc hunting.... I want more feedback about this....
I'm looking into balancing these more, however the run is now more valuable than diamond. Hopefully if the actual locations for diamond change I can boost it back up too...
I've nerfed the xp a bit based on feedback (for next update), as it's now becoming the new "xp run"... I don't mind putting them up again soon, however i need to find a way to boost the income from this.
In terms of licenses, I'll talk to Genesis about this.
Last edited by a moderator:
Scott1sh
Banned
Doing a diamond run is more valuable than tobacco
Number of Players Needed
1
Vehicle:
Tempest Transport
Route
Diamond Mine > Ring Maker > Tanoa Jewellery :
Profit
112 x 65 = £7,280
Time
30-40mins
Number of Players Needed
2-3
Vehicle:
2 x Tempest Transport & RHIB Boat
Route
Tobacco Field > Transport from boat to tempest on the tobacco dryer island > cigarette roller > boat to transport to tobacconist
Profit
£9000
Time
1Hour +
The problem with tobacco is you have to have boat and 2 trucks (a heli is far too expensive 125k for an m900) and for a legal run spread over 3 islands it isn't worth it over diamonds at the moment.
- Location
- West Midlands, UK
CI Wasted
Well-known member
- Location
- SE London
So I've ventured away from Diamonds to do Tobacco and here are my findings.
Firstly Tobacco seems and is providing difficult to complete a run purely via a truck, I suspect this is intended ?
I've complete a few Tobacco > Cigarette runs and hes what I've found. (this was done with a Tempest Cover Truck, Rhib boat and Jet ski)
Diamonds
- Diamonds uncut weigh 6 and processed they weigh 4
- 1 Diamond run (Mine > Ring Maker > Tanoa jewellery) you can store in a Tempest Cover 104 + 8 in a carryall backpack totalling 112. Once processed and sold for £65 each this will generate £7280 this run taking around 40 mins give or take.
- If you decided to process the 112 load and then return to the mine to fill up a little bit extra you can then store another 29 uncut diamonds in the truck plus another 8 in a large carryall back pack. Once these have been processed and sold at Tanoa jewellery you stand to make £9658, This will add around 15 mins extra to the trip and take almost an hour.
Tobacco
- Tobacco leaves, Dry Tobacco and Cigarettes all weigh 2 (you must leave some space either in the truck or your inventory or after processing there is no space to move them around. This meaning you have to drop some and a penalised loosing a small amount of XP)
- If using only a Tempest covered you can storage in it 312 Tobacco leaves. and with nothing in your inventory and using a Carryall backpack hold a further 26 totalling 338. However after the first attempt at this i removed 4 so this totalled 334 (to allow me space to move these from my inventory to truck)
- First time i did this run i had loaded my truck with Tobacco, the truck was sync'd and the server restarted. I then spawned in at Katkoula on restart. From here i went to dry the Tobacco and make Cigarettes, I then hit a problem. How do i get my truck from Katkoula to the main Island or the south eastern island. I asked a member of member support if i store my truck then physically travel by boat am i able to then collect my truck from another garage ? the answer i received was 'Yes, this is ok for now, as the truck could be shipped in RP, but you cannot teleport your player character there. This is a bit of a grey area (according to the staff team member i also asked) as it could be seen as vehicle teleportation ? However my intentions here were to test Tobacco and not exploit. (Some clarity is needed for this unique situation) So i then purchased a Jet Ski and travelled to Lijnhaven, retrieved my truck at the cost of £970 or so and then went off to sell the Cigarettes at the Tobacconist.
- Selling 334 Cigarettes for £25 each generated £8350 but having to store and retrieve your vehicle twice to complete this costing £970 x 2 you loose almost £2000 of the run.
- This complete trip took around 1 hour 20 mins
- I decided to buy a boat (Rhib boat) and use this instead of the Truck being stored and found that my clean up script, cleaned my truck up while i was processing the first batch of Tobacco so i was unable to compare the 2 different style runs.
- We also have tested this by doing this by helicopter, however due to the lack of storage in helicopters this takes a shorter time but nets way less ££ and is not worth doing VS Diamonds. Having to purchase a boat will cost around £15000 depending on the boat and your truck will despawn. Purchasing a Helicopter to do this will cost £100,000+ depending on the helicopter / storage.
- The XP is great but for a solo effort is difficult to complete in a timely manor VS Diamonds.
My Conclusion
With the current locations of the Tobacco dryer, Cigarette roller and Tobacconist this is not an easy or very worth while item to process and sell. My suggestions to this are the following;
- Either the places you need to visit for Tobacco need to moved elsewhere (potentially onto the main island and the most south eastern island)
- A ferry system could be introduced (dependant on work required to implement), so you store your vehicle at a dock for example, small fee or free travel via a water vehicle to and from a specific place on the Island then retrieve your vehicle for free or smaller fee for retrieving.
- Based on the above Diamonds are way more profitable and quicker/easier to process and sell, rendering Tobacco not worth the hassle. Also people you cant smoke / use the Cigarette's and smoking is bad anyway !
Hope this is insightful and the work done so far is amazing guys !
@TinyBigJacko @Neo @DI INFO @Khandamir
Firstly Tobacco seems and is providing difficult to complete a run purely via a truck, I suspect this is intended ?
I've complete a few Tobacco > Cigarette runs and hes what I've found. (this was done with a Tempest Cover Truck, Rhib boat and Jet ski)
Diamonds
- Diamonds uncut weigh 6 and processed they weigh 4
- 1 Diamond run (Mine > Ring Maker > Tanoa jewellery) you can store in a Tempest Cover 104 + 8 in a carryall backpack totalling 112. Once processed and sold for £65 each this will generate £7280 this run taking around 40 mins give or take.
- If you decided to process the 112 load and then return to the mine to fill up a little bit extra you can then store another 29 uncut diamonds in the truck plus another 8 in a large carryall back pack. Once these have been processed and sold at Tanoa jewellery you stand to make £9658, This will add around 15 mins extra to the trip and take almost an hour.
Tobacco
- Tobacco leaves, Dry Tobacco and Cigarettes all weigh 2 (you must leave some space either in the truck or your inventory or after processing there is no space to move them around. This meaning you have to drop some and a penalised loosing a small amount of XP)
- If using only a Tempest covered you can storage in it 312 Tobacco leaves. and with nothing in your inventory and using a Carryall backpack hold a further 26 totalling 338. However after the first attempt at this i removed 4 so this totalled 334 (to allow me space to move these from my inventory to truck)
- First time i did this run i had loaded my truck with Tobacco, the truck was sync'd and the server restarted. I then spawned in at Katkoula on restart. From here i went to dry the Tobacco and make Cigarettes, I then hit a problem. How do i get my truck from Katkoula to the main Island or the south eastern island. I asked a member of member support if i store my truck then physically travel by boat am i able to then collect my truck from another garage ? the answer i received was 'Yes, this is ok for now, as the truck could be shipped in RP, but you cannot teleport your player character there. This is a bit of a grey area (according to the staff team member i also asked) as it could be seen as vehicle teleportation ? However my intentions here were to test Tobacco and not exploit. (Some clarity is needed for this unique situation) So i then purchased a Jet Ski and travelled to Lijnhaven, retrieved my truck at the cost of £970 or so and then went off to sell the Cigarettes at the Tobacconist.
- Selling 334 Cigarettes for £25 each generated £8350 but having to store and retrieve your vehicle twice to complete this costing £970 x 2 you loose almost £2000 of the run.
- This complete trip took around 1 hour 20 mins
- I decided to buy a boat (Rhib boat) and use this instead of the Truck being stored and found that my clean up script, cleaned my truck up while i was processing the first batch of Tobacco so i was unable to compare the 2 different style runs.
- We also have tested this by doing this by helicopter, however due to the lack of storage in helicopters this takes a shorter time but nets way less ££ and is not worth doing VS Diamonds. Having to purchase a boat will cost around £15000 depending on the boat and your truck will despawn. Purchasing a Helicopter to do this will cost £100,000+ depending on the helicopter / storage.
- The XP is great but for a solo effort is difficult to complete in a timely manor VS Diamonds.
My Conclusion
With the current locations of the Tobacco dryer, Cigarette roller and Tobacconist this is not an easy or very worth while item to process and sell. My suggestions to this are the following;
- Either the places you need to visit for Tobacco need to moved elsewhere (potentially onto the main island and the most south eastern island)
- A ferry system could be introduced (dependant on work required to implement), so you store your vehicle at a dock for example, small fee or free travel via a water vehicle to and from a specific place on the Island then retrieve your vehicle for free or smaller fee for retrieving.
- Based on the above Diamonds are way more profitable and quicker/easier to process and sell, rendering Tobacco not worth the hassle. Also people you cant smoke / use the Cigarette's and smoking is bad anyway !
Hope this is insightful and the work done so far is amazing guys !
@TinyBigJacko @Neo @DI INFO @Khandamir
Last edited by a moderator:
TinyBigJacko
Management
Management
Dev Team
Los Santos Police Command
Los Santos NHS
Los Santos Firefighter
Gruppe 6
Judge
- Location
- Vinewood Casino Management Office
Wasted - you utter hero! Thanks so much for this. This is PRECISELY the kind of information we so desperately need.
I'm going to discuss this in due course with the dev-team and see what we can think up. You've raised a couple of interesting points that we had completely missed (not going to say which ones, but I'm sure you can guess).
The point is, yes, Tobacco *is* intended to be a higher-level job, that requires some previous investment and commitment, and is not intended for vanilla-spawn hobos to even think about attempting. Yes, it is meant to get players to use boats initially, and be a reason for them to want to invest in boats. Yes, the idea of a ferry has already been bandied about internally - in the short term, we are hoping that players will RP a ferry trip themselves, and provide access to boat storage - but there are technical issues involved in this (vehicle key-swapping, etc). It's all such new stuff - and thus we are running into all sorts of interesting conundrums that never happened before on Altis!
Ultimately, tobacco is a top-tier job, and should be a wealthy turn. It's clearly not quite there yet, and so we'll tweak it more.
Oh - and yes, don't worry - cigarettes WILL be useable, in time. It's on my list of things to add. Half the code is already in there, from the weed-smoking stuff I wrote years ago... but I'd like to solve the problem of where the attached 'smoke-generator' goes, when you are in a vehicle. Currently, it gets dropped on the floor (thankyou ARMA), and I would like to solve this to make it more convincing, before I roll it out to the rollups!
Thanks again Wasted - really top-notch stuff - gives us tons of useful info and saves us HOURS of personal research time. Good man.
I'm going to discuss this in due course with the dev-team and see what we can think up. You've raised a couple of interesting points that we had completely missed (not going to say which ones, but I'm sure you can guess).
The point is, yes, Tobacco *is* intended to be a higher-level job, that requires some previous investment and commitment, and is not intended for vanilla-spawn hobos to even think about attempting. Yes, it is meant to get players to use boats initially, and be a reason for them to want to invest in boats. Yes, the idea of a ferry has already been bandied about internally - in the short term, we are hoping that players will RP a ferry trip themselves, and provide access to boat storage - but there are technical issues involved in this (vehicle key-swapping, etc). It's all such new stuff - and thus we are running into all sorts of interesting conundrums that never happened before on Altis!
Ultimately, tobacco is a top-tier job, and should be a wealthy turn. It's clearly not quite there yet, and so we'll tweak it more.
Oh - and yes, don't worry - cigarettes WILL be useable, in time. It's on my list of things to add. Half the code is already in there, from the weed-smoking stuff I wrote years ago... but I'd like to solve the problem of where the attached 'smoke-generator' goes, when you are in a vehicle. Currently, it gets dropped on the floor (thankyou ARMA), and I would like to solve this to make it more convincing, before I roll it out to the rollups!
Thanks again Wasted - really top-notch stuff - gives us tons of useful info and saves us HOURS of personal research time. Good man.
TinyBigJacko
Management
Management
Dev Team
Los Santos Police Command
Los Santos NHS
Los Santos Firefighter
Gruppe 6
Judge
- Location
- Vinewood Casino Management Office
I'm going to cherry-pick a few of these to respond to - no reason other than I am pushed for time and need to get on with some coding today or Wilco won't feed me... But there are some key points worthy of feedback or explanation in this list imho:
This is very easily doable and will fit in with our existing codebase. Literally all that's needed would be some weight-figures and ARMA classnames added to a pre-existing table. I'll discuss this with the team as a possibility. I like it very much.
- Police to have a Police Truck for RP/Prison transport such a a Tempest Covered (Zamaks are extremely top heavy and tip over LOTS)
Problem with this is that it would then mean we could not give the same Tempest Covered to the civs or rebels as a vehicle they could use. I think. Maybe I'll have to study that bit of the code more closely (because we manage to give the cops Police-skinned SUVs, which the civs can't buy). Hmm. Been a long time since I looked at that particular spaghetti-ball, and I remember skating over it when I enabled the uncovered Zamak Transport for use as a bus, and thinking how hard it was to make sure it didn't turn up in the truck shop! That is why there is currently only a COVERED Zamak in the truck shop. Will look into this. You people love giving me the tricky jobs, don'cha?
In any event, it would require a kind skinner/texmapper to draw us up a new skin for this vehicle, if I could get it in... any takers?
- Being able to see a dead/unconscious player on the map/gps like the NHS on Altis
I like this. I think this is doable. Will explore, after discussions with the team.
- Civs being able to rob things like Fuel stations, Banks and even supermarkets would generate more on the wanted list police people to deal with (however due to abuse we see on Altis, maybe limit the amount of robberies that players can commit on stores to a set number per hour)
Definitely want the ability to rob places - and fuel stations are one of them. We currently haven't built any fuel-station shops but I definitely believe that every fuel station should have a market and be robbable. Logically follows that supermarkets should be too. And maybe the jewellers, even (but his would take a LONG time and be on a redcare instant alert to the cops imho).
The only mixed feelings here is with artificially limiting the frequency of robberies by a simple timer. Timers are processor hungry (well, wasteful) on the one hand, and a bit 'dead-hand-of-the-designer' on the other. Why shouldn't a robber go on a spree, if he is minded to do so? It happens in RL, and it could happen in Tanoa. However, I think that there needs to be some sort of 'logical' limitation that works in RP terms. Maybe once someone has robbed a store, he is marked on the cops GPS for an X-minute period (yes, more timers, but hey - more worthwhile use of resources maybe). Or maybe only once he has robbed a second or third store? Equating to maybe the TV news having received descriptions from the townspeople, or wanted 'CrimeWatch' type info received from police, making the guy much less able to hide in plain sight? Dunno. But repeat robbery definitely needs to have some sort of risk-increase, and likelier chance of detection and capture. Will think about this.
- Maybe add carry weight to vests and rigs ?
This is very easily doable and will fit in with our existing codebase. Literally all that's needed would be some weight-figures and ARMA classnames added to a pre-existing table. I'll discuss this with the team as a possibility. I like it very much.
- Police to have a Police Truck for RP/Prison transport such a a Tempest Covered (Zamaks are extremely top heavy and tip over LOTS)
Problem with this is that it would then mean we could not give the same Tempest Covered to the civs or rebels as a vehicle they could use. I think. Maybe I'll have to study that bit of the code more closely (because we manage to give the cops Police-skinned SUVs, which the civs can't buy). Hmm. Been a long time since I looked at that particular spaghetti-ball, and I remember skating over it when I enabled the uncovered Zamak Transport for use as a bus, and thinking how hard it was to make sure it didn't turn up in the truck shop! That is why there is currently only a COVERED Zamak in the truck shop. Will look into this. You people love giving me the tricky jobs, don'cha?
In any event, it would require a kind skinner/texmapper to draw us up a new skin for this vehicle, if I could get it in... any takers?
- Being able to see a dead/unconscious player on the map/gps like the NHS on Altis
I like this. I think this is doable. Will explore, after discussions with the team.
- Civs being able to rob things like Fuel stations, Banks and even supermarkets would generate more on the wanted list police people to deal with (however due to abuse we see on Altis, maybe limit the amount of robberies that players can commit on stores to a set number per hour)
Definitely want the ability to rob places - and fuel stations are one of them. We currently haven't built any fuel-station shops but I definitely believe that every fuel station should have a market and be robbable. Logically follows that supermarkets should be too. And maybe the jewellers, even (but his would take a LONG time and be on a redcare instant alert to the cops imho).
The only mixed feelings here is with artificially limiting the frequency of robberies by a simple timer. Timers are processor hungry (well, wasteful) on the one hand, and a bit 'dead-hand-of-the-designer' on the other. Why shouldn't a robber go on a spree, if he is minded to do so? It happens in RL, and it could happen in Tanoa. However, I think that there needs to be some sort of 'logical' limitation that works in RP terms. Maybe once someone has robbed a store, he is marked on the cops GPS for an X-minute period (yes, more timers, but hey - more worthwhile use of resources maybe). Or maybe only once he has robbed a second or third store? Equating to maybe the TV news having received descriptions from the townspeople, or wanted 'CrimeWatch' type info received from police, making the guy much less able to hide in plain sight? Dunno. But repeat robbery definitely needs to have some sort of risk-increase, and likelier chance of detection and capture. Will think about this.
MrChee
Well-known member
- Location
- United Kingdon
I did a short audit this morning and these are a few things i picked out. Firstly, the update has moved it in vastly the right direction. My comments now are mostly to do with player satisfaction rather than testing job economy.
1) Weather forecast is a nice touch
2) Licences are better now too (value wise)
3) I think this came up already, but it would nice to have a basic hint card on each (maybe only legal) job, with levels required, so that people dont spend ages traversing the island, just to find they are two levels short. Maybe t could be formatted like a job advert to meet the RP specs? It is a difficult island to get across - which brings me onto the next two points.
4) That damn hatchback... My suggestion is that you remove the hatchback as the first unlocked car, and replace with with the offroad, for a variety of reasons. Firstly, it is a soul crushingly slow way to move around, in many cases slower than the Quadbike. As far as retaining players goes, if you allow then the starting capital to buy a decent car off the bat which fits RP, they will be much happier to do jobs in it than saving up for a car which is fundamentally not designed for the island And in RP terms -> what crazy business man would import a hatchback to an island with 80% unmettaled roads when he could import a load of cheap rugged offroad cars which will make him more profit ? This is a player retaining suggestion, a £4k offroad will make the roads busy and scenario appropriate again, and i cant think of a downside to this?
5) I think the box truck needs to be cheaper, by half or more. (maybe trunk capacity down to 250?) If you buy your first 5k car, which puts you at effectively 0 balance, you then have to do about 15 hours of money making before you can buy the licence and truck (pure hours, exclusing rp). As an entry level to industry on the island i think it is too off putting. RP - a cheap second hand imported transit van with 90k miles shouldn't be a bank breaker for someone starting a mining business.
6) Boat prices are better, however due to their low accessibility to inland (requiring multiple transitions of goods) and low speed, i think there should be a compensation by them having larger capacities. This would mean the cross island jobs could be more worthwhile in a boat. I dont see any reason why the motorboat, or others for that matter, couldn't have a capacity larger than the boot space of an offroad, (200?) bearing in mind a boat is mostly air space. Boats are the last choice for players atm, just because they are so impractical and the capacity doesn't make up for it.
Thats what i picked up from 20 mins this morning, i think the points most important for me are 4 and 5. They are monotony breaking changes which i think would help significantly.
1) Weather forecast is a nice touch
2) Licences are better now too (value wise)
3) I think this came up already, but it would nice to have a basic hint card on each (maybe only legal) job, with levels required, so that people dont spend ages traversing the island, just to find they are two levels short. Maybe t could be formatted like a job advert to meet the RP specs? It is a difficult island to get across - which brings me onto the next two points.
4) That damn hatchback... My suggestion is that you remove the hatchback as the first unlocked car, and replace with with the offroad, for a variety of reasons. Firstly, it is a soul crushingly slow way to move around, in many cases slower than the Quadbike. As far as retaining players goes, if you allow then the starting capital to buy a decent car off the bat which fits RP, they will be much happier to do jobs in it than saving up for a car which is fundamentally not designed for the island
And in RP terms -> what crazy business man would import a hatchback to an island with 80% unmettaled roads when he could import a load of cheap rugged offroad cars which will make him more profit ? This is a player retaining suggestion, a £4k offroad will make the roads busy and scenario appropriate again, and i cant think of a downside to this? 5) I think the box truck needs to be cheaper, by half or more. (maybe trunk capacity down to 250?) If you buy your first 5k car, which puts you at effectively 0 balance, you then have to do about 15 hours of money making before you can buy the licence and truck (pure hours, exclusing rp). As an entry level to industry on the island i think it is too off putting. RP - a cheap second hand imported transit van with 90k miles shouldn't be a bank breaker for someone starting a mining business.
6) Boat prices are better, however due to their low accessibility to inland (requiring multiple transitions of goods) and low speed, i think there should be a compensation by them having larger capacities. This would mean the cross island jobs could be more worthwhile in a boat. I dont see any reason why the motorboat, or others for that matter, couldn't have a capacity larger than the boot space of an offroad, (200?) bearing in mind a boat is mostly air space. Boats are the last choice for players atm, just because they are so impractical and the capacity doesn't make up for it.
Thats what i picked up from 20 mins this morning, i think the points most important for me are 4 and 5. They are monotony breaking changes which i think would help significantly.
Griffin_Trojan
New member
I don't play tanoa but after reading this thread I have something to chip in.
Just really the last point of robbing spree getting said criminal on a watchlist (aka gps on map for cops) Perhaps there could be a few "safe houses" around that said criminal could head too and get removed from the gps marker? The police shouldn't know where they are and perhaps they could be random after each restart?
Just a thought
Just really the last point of robbing spree getting said criminal on a watchlist (aka gps on map for cops) Perhaps there could be a few "safe houses" around that said criminal could head too and get removed from the gps marker? The police shouldn't know where they are and perhaps they could be random after each restart?
Just a thought
CI Wasted
Well-known member
- Location
- SE London
*idea for this*
If someone starts to rob a store, maybe a bar could pop-up (like repairing a vehicle) once it completes then they have successfully robbed the store. This would stop abuse from people robbing stores for 1-2 secs just to gain a bounty like on altis.
The police cant see criminals on the map or gps, they find you by ANRP'ing a car, RP or catching you in the act of a crime.
Last edited by a moderator:
Griffin_Trojan
New member
I was adding that in response to your previous idea
angellfall
Well-known member
I feel that there should be something more into the police work just like you presented here. Gathering evidence what then would show whereabouts of the person involved in crime. I think many of the polices would like that there would be some "investigation work" to be done. Good idea would be if a person is killed it would drop "evidence bags" for police. Police would then gather information about what happened from those bags in form of who is the shooter, what gun was used, etc. This would actually give so much more to the normal routine police work. Currently it is basicly anpr anpr anpr, what is your name, oh your car is wanted but i guess you are not, as you just told me different name, have a nice day sir. Would be so nice to collect gunpowder residues from person and match it with evidence and actually do some police work like that also. Hopefully people get my point. But then again this sidetracked so badly from the topic.
TinyBigJacko
Management
Management
Dev Team
Los Santos Police Command
Los Santos NHS
Los Santos Firefighter
Gruppe 6
Judge
- Location
- Vinewood Casino Management Office
Some great ideas here Angellfall. There are a number of things we could try. An easy win would be to make some of the illegal processors retain a list of names for a while - rather like the drug dealers (police haven't forgotten about interrogating the drug-dealers have they? I hope not!)
I wasn't aware that the ANPR which I made so, so long ago, had become such a crucial and central point of cop RP. On the one hand, it's nice to know that something I created simply for a bit of extra realism and fun has become so much of a fulcrum for police gameplay - but on the other hand, it shows that the rest of Tonic's original game-balance for the cops was pretty weak. We maybe need to address that.
What if I were to start with making the processors 'grass' to the cops, like the dealers do? It would give the cops a legitimate reason to visit the processors more (without camping), and it would keep the naughty-boys on their toes about reccying the processors a bit more, too. Opportunities for gunplay and RP.
Evidence bags is a tricky one - the cleanup script currently deletes things every few minutes if nobody is about, and I'd have to rewrite all that if the evidence bags were to persist (or at least persist predictably). We can't risk the server filling up with lots of crap that never gets found and which slows it down too much - but there might be a balance I can achieve. It'll take some thinking about, but I'll do just that.
We always *used* to consider that if we did a licence search on someone and came back with 'cocaine licence' then it was a sure sign that someone was worthy of further inspection - but I personally HATED the terminology. Having a 'licence' to do cocaine is a fucking nonsense, so we reworded it to 'training', as a means of making it clear that it wasn't a 'state-sanctioned activity' and more a sign that it was being done by this person, either now or recently, and could be construed by police as being a signal that someone was dicky-dodge. But I confess I don't like how any of that works. Maybe we should just dump the whole license/training idea completely, or rather, shift 'training' out of the licensing area totally. Training be something you get from a shady dude when learning how to make coke - not a man in a suit at the town hall. So it should not show up when cops do a licence-check... but maybe it should show up as 'residue of drugs/coke/smack' when the cops do a BAG or PERSON or VEHICLE search, maybe. Maybe only if the cop has a roadside drug-detection kit on him, perhaps? Dunno. There is room here for improvement, for sure... but I must move slowly, within the confines of what management and the dev-team allows...
- Location
- Under a rock
Sorry, I just laughed when I saw this :')
I reported to ed that the zamak transport bus was in the truck shop with the bus skin :')
To add onto this, maybe instead of evidence bags, you could go up to the service person in the store and then police gets 2 options
1. Interrogate Clerk / whatever
2. Search for evidence within the gas station
That was there won't be a need for said evidence bags
Would give police a drastic turn in their RP abilities, that I'd sure like!
(Also, maybe the clerk could give a "description" so it tells you what the player is wearing, and if possible, his face coming on the screen)
My idea onto this!
angellfall
Well-known member
As quick idea about the evidence bags. Would it be possible to do a kill trigger within normal processors and popular markets what would work so that when a player is killed inside certain range it would then start a counter what after ~3min would inform police that "Gun crime reports are incoming to dispatch from these coordinates". Trigger would then watch for nearby polices arriving to the scene and then spawn a suitcase to those coordinates. If none would not come withing next 5 min it would remove the spawned suitcase. That i know that system like that would not work in altis, but maybe in tanoa there is just that little bit less gun crime. Nor do I have any idea how much it would suck server power in a full server having a triggers like so in place. Atleast on normal "clear" environment triggers like that tend to not take too much of a power, but then again its life mod.
Last edited by a moderator:
Lincoln
Well-known member
- Location
- Wales
Okay so I have decided to wait a while before posting some serious feedback, so I had time to understand everything fully.
The server is great so far, it truly is. However there are some things I personally think are too hard.
The arrival to Tanoa
The first couple of days on Tanoa were truly difficult. I arrived and met the lovely Ian Foot and tried to have a chat with him. However I do not think he liked me very much and just stared at me. I was hoping he would give me some information on where to begin my new life in Tanoa. I exited the airport to see a bike rental stand to my left, I ran over to ask how much it is to rent and I was shocked to see it cost a large sum of £288 for my first rental. Luckily my grandmother gave me £5,000 to start off with. So I got some cash out and rented a bike. Although I did not have a license to do so. Damn corrupt rental guys!
Once I sat my sweaty bottom on the quad, I looked at the map on the leaflet I received on the plane to find out where I can find my first job. I found it pretty hard to figure out where to start. I saw job opportunities doing all sorts. Such as, mangos, sugar, copper. However it did not states how to do such things. So I decided to go to George Town to find a fellow civilian to ask for advice. I found a man that told me I should start with sugar, it is good money and I can gain decent knowledge on the farming industry. So I began my unnecessary journey and took risks on treacherous roads on my beautiful quad. It took many hours to finish my first round of sugar farming, the sugar exports is a long way to drive on such a slow vehicle. The sweat was getting worse and eventually made some money. I did the math and realised I would need to do this seventeen more times to gain enough money and knowledge to be able to buy a hatchback. So the grind began!
After doing such calculations, I realised at the sugar exports that there is little to no ATM's on the island and feared being robbed for my hard earned money that took so long to make. I saw on my map there was an ATM 2.8 KM from sugar exports, past a airfield to the north. I thought to myself, what a wonderful world. This is where my journey begins.
The coming days
Day after day I struggled through the soaring heat and terrifying storms on my little quad, I made enough money to finally buy a hatchback! I raced to George Town as fast as I could to buy my first ever car. There I was, huge smile on my face, sat in the driver seat of a beautiful hatchback that I could call my own. I drove around the town and explored all the wonderful shops, I met some police officers, the first I had seen in days. I spoke to them and I had a wonderful interaction with them. They asked me how my time has been on the island so far and I responded with my thoughts; "Officer, my time so far has been great, it is a beautiful island. I even have a job and made enough money to buy my car just over there" The officer asked if I was saving up for a larger vehicle, maybe an offroad. I said I had not thought about it yet. He made me think about that, so I did some more calculations. I figured to further myself I need to do a better job and applied to be a copper miner, I did not expect to have to spend £3,100 to be fully licensed to do such a thing. I thought of my god no, I need to do another thirteen sugar runs to afford this, I surely can not do all this labour for such little pay. So I told the officer this and he said to hang in there and I will eventually make it to where I want to get in life. This gave me the inspiration and motivation I needed to strive to the top! To be the very best! So I thanked the officer and jumped in my hacthback and continued with my sugar farming job.
The copper miner
Later that week I accumulated the funds I needed to start my copper job. I got my license and was taught by a fellow miner how to do the job. This was all too exciting for me. I knew I would gain more money doing this job and I expected correct. I made just over £900 doing my first load in a hatchback. I did this as much as I could on my first day and I quickly gained enough money to buy an offroad. I thought this will get better and better as the offroad has a huge truck and I can fit much more copper inside. I mined like no other miner, I swung my pickaxe as fast and hard as I could until I could collect all the ore I could fit in my trunk. I drove to the refinery and began smelting the ore into ingots and then brought it all to Daltgreen Industries. This is what I still do as my job today and I believe it is the best job on the island.
This is my first week on the island and I have already gone much further than this small article for Tanoa News. Just remember, life has it's hard tims but if you put in the work and effort you will get there eventually, the words of a wise man.
-----------------------------------
All in all the server is fantastic, there is plenty of roleplay to be had and plenty of money once you get stuck in.
The start thought maybe is a little bit difficult. this can be changed by everyone.
So to do my part, I have given two new tanoa hobos a tour of the island and tutorial on how to get started within RP. I brought them both on their first sugar runs and then left them with my offroad to get them started. If we all help the newer people the server will grow.
The server is great so far, it truly is. However there are some things I personally think are too hard.
The arrival to Tanoa
The first couple of days on Tanoa were truly difficult. I arrived and met the lovely Ian Foot and tried to have a chat with him. However I do not think he liked me very much and just stared at me. I was hoping he would give me some information on where to begin my new life in Tanoa. I exited the airport to see a bike rental stand to my left, I ran over to ask how much it is to rent and I was shocked to see it cost a large sum of £288 for my first rental. Luckily my grandmother gave me £5,000 to start off with. So I got some cash out and rented a bike. Although I did not have a license to do so. Damn corrupt rental guys!
Once I sat my sweaty bottom on the quad, I looked at the map on the leaflet I received on the plane to find out where I can find my first job. I found it pretty hard to figure out where to start. I saw job opportunities doing all sorts. Such as, mangos, sugar, copper. However it did not states how to do such things. So I decided to go to George Town to find a fellow civilian to ask for advice. I found a man that told me I should start with sugar, it is good money and I can gain decent knowledge on the farming industry. So I began my unnecessary journey and took risks on treacherous roads on my beautiful quad. It took many hours to finish my first round of sugar farming, the sugar exports is a long way to drive on such a slow vehicle. The sweat was getting worse and eventually made some money. I did the math and realised I would need to do this seventeen more times to gain enough money and knowledge to be able to buy a hatchback. So the grind began!
After doing such calculations, I realised at the sugar exports that there is little to no ATM's on the island and feared being robbed for my hard earned money that took so long to make. I saw on my map there was an ATM 2.8 KM from sugar exports, past a airfield to the north. I thought to myself, what a wonderful world. This is where my journey begins.
The coming days
Day after day I struggled through the soaring heat and terrifying storms on my little quad, I made enough money to finally buy a hatchback! I raced to George Town as fast as I could to buy my first ever car. There I was, huge smile on my face, sat in the driver seat of a beautiful hatchback that I could call my own. I drove around the town and explored all the wonderful shops, I met some police officers, the first I had seen in days. I spoke to them and I had a wonderful interaction with them. They asked me how my time has been on the island so far and I responded with my thoughts; "Officer, my time so far has been great, it is a beautiful island. I even have a job and made enough money to buy my car just over there" The officer asked if I was saving up for a larger vehicle, maybe an offroad. I said I had not thought about it yet. He made me think about that, so I did some more calculations. I figured to further myself I need to do a better job and applied to be a copper miner, I did not expect to have to spend £3,100 to be fully licensed to do such a thing. I thought of my god no, I need to do another thirteen sugar runs to afford this, I surely can not do all this labour for such little pay. So I told the officer this and he said to hang in there and I will eventually make it to where I want to get in life. This gave me the inspiration and motivation I needed to strive to the top! To be the very best! So I thanked the officer and jumped in my hacthback and continued with my sugar farming job.
The copper miner
Later that week I accumulated the funds I needed to start my copper job. I got my license and was taught by a fellow miner how to do the job. This was all too exciting for me. I knew I would gain more money doing this job and I expected correct. I made just over £900 doing my first load in a hatchback. I did this as much as I could on my first day and I quickly gained enough money to buy an offroad. I thought this will get better and better as the offroad has a huge truck and I can fit much more copper inside. I mined like no other miner, I swung my pickaxe as fast and hard as I could until I could collect all the ore I could fit in my trunk. I drove to the refinery and began smelting the ore into ingots and then brought it all to Daltgreen Industries. This is what I still do as my job today and I believe it is the best job on the island.
This is my first week on the island and I have already gone much further than this small article for Tanoa News. Just remember, life has it's hard tims but if you put in the work and effort you will get there eventually, the words of a wise man.
-----------------------------------
All in all the server is fantastic, there is plenty of roleplay to be had and plenty of money once you get stuck in.
The start thought maybe is a little bit difficult. this can be changed by everyone.
So to do my part, I have given two new tanoa hobos a tour of the island and tutorial on how to get started within RP. I brought them both on their first sugar runs and then left them with my offroad to get them started. If we all help the newer people the server will grow.
TinyBigJacko
Management
Management
Dev Team
Los Santos Police Command
Los Santos NHS
Los Santos Firefighter
Gruppe 6
Judge
- Location
- Vinewood Casino Management Office
I'll give both of these some serious thought in the coming days. Certainly I am behind the ideas in principle - the execution though, is kinda making me scratch my eyes and wince a bit.
Store Clerks remembering playermodel types, and having a valid set of all possible replies (bearing in mind it would need to remember things like hats, glasses, vests, backpacks - at least to a broad-degree, even if it didn't identify the exact type - which imho it shouldn't) might be difficult or costly in terms of stored information that might never get used. It'd also all be new code (whereas we already have code that does the drug-dealer remembering names and grassing, so that'd be an easy drop-in).
Regarding triggers... my arsehole does the double-tap everytime someone mentions triggers. They can be killers on an MP server, and they are notorious at not firing properly in MP (as anyone who remembers the triggers-based automatic barrier I made at Kavala Police HQ once, will tell you!) We normally do the same job, but in a different, script-based way that is less flawed. Even so, there is still plenty of scope for a cop to never actually go to the right spot, or to die on the way, after we've dropped the bag... and if he took too long, the cleanup script could quite possibly zap it before he ever saw it!
However, there are ways that I can take the core principles of these ideas and maybe cook up something nice. We shall see. Right now, my main focus is on getting players back on Tanoa - without that bridge being crossed, nothing is going to be possible.
Store Clerks remembering playermodel types, and having a valid set of all possible replies (bearing in mind it would need to remember things like hats, glasses, vests, backpacks - at least to a broad-degree, even if it didn't identify the exact type - which imho it shouldn't) might be difficult or costly in terms of stored information that might never get used. It'd also all be new code (whereas we already have code that does the drug-dealer remembering names and grassing, so that'd be an easy drop-in).
Regarding triggers... my arsehole does the double-tap everytime someone mentions triggers. They can be killers on an MP server, and they are notorious at not firing properly in MP (as anyone who remembers the triggers-based automatic barrier I made at Kavala Police HQ once, will tell you!) We normally do the same job, but in a different, script-based way that is less flawed. Even so, there is still plenty of scope for a cop to never actually go to the right spot, or to die on the way, after we've dropped the bag... and if he took too long, the cleanup script could quite possibly zap it before he ever saw it!
However, there are ways that I can take the core principles of these ideas and maybe cook up something nice. We shall see. Right now, my main focus is on getting players back on Tanoa - without that bridge being crossed, nothing is going to be possible.
Scott1sh
Banned
Tanoa Vault
Last night we robbed the Vault of Tanoa, we took all but 10 bars and we were in and out in less than 7 minutes. I feel as a rebel that is far 2 easy, yes its nice getting 75k worth of gold each but if there is no risk its kind of boring and overpowered.
One officer turned up as we were leaving in the Orca but only because we was across the way at the Prison doing RP, a second officer was a few hundred metres away but only because he was a few kms away at the time of the robbery.
The time it takes cops to gear for a Vault Operation then drive to the Vault we are in and out.
We flew to the south east gold buyer and cops had no chance to intercept us.
Police Response Time To Vault = 7-10 Minutes
Vault Robbery & Gold Sell = Under 15 Minutes
Solutions
Blasting Charge: Increase timer to between 8-10mins, this will give cops at least time to respond.
Vault Rules: I believe the the rules for the Vault should differ from Altis in which as soon as the Blasting Charge has been placed negotiations are over, i think a negotiator should still be able to approach and either be told 1. We want to negotiate or 2. No we don't want to negotiate and then act accordingly.
Gold Buyer: It is very hard for cops to get to the gold buyers without helicopter support, but not much can be changed until NPAS is implemented
Last night we robbed the Vault of Tanoa, we took all but 10 bars and we were in and out in less than 7 minutes. I feel as a rebel that is far 2 easy, yes its nice getting 75k worth of gold each but if there is no risk its kind of boring and overpowered.
One officer turned up as we were leaving in the Orca but only because we was across the way at the Prison doing RP, a second officer was a few hundred metres away but only because he was a few kms away at the time of the robbery.
The time it takes cops to gear for a Vault Operation then drive to the Vault we are in and out.
We flew to the south east gold buyer and cops had no chance to intercept us.
Police Response Time To Vault = 7-10 Minutes
Vault Robbery & Gold Sell = Under 15 Minutes
Solutions
Blasting Charge: Increase timer to between 8-10mins, this will give cops at least time to respond.
Vault Rules: I believe the the rules for the Vault should differ from Altis in which as soon as the Blasting Charge has been placed negotiations are over, i think a negotiator should still be able to approach and either be told 1. We want to negotiate or 2. No we don't want to negotiate and then act accordingly.
Gold Buyer: It is very hard for cops to get to the gold buyers without helicopter support, but not much can be changed until NPAS is implemented
Last edited by a moderator:
CI Wasted
Well-known member
- Location
- SE London
As Scottish mentioned, we did rob the treasury on Tanoa last night. (Police holiday is pretty fun)
And as mentioned there are currently some issues to mention. Here is my feedback from this experience.
First to note we had 8 guys as the heist team, and the vehicle of choice for this operation was a helicopter.
We flew in and landed inside the compound, all jumping out from the helicopter but the pilot. Our pilot then flew up around 150-200m to keep an eye out for police attending. By this time we had moved to the vault buildings to find the vault. Firstly to point out here all the doors on both building were not locked and opening them, entering the building and planting a blasting charge on the vault took around 45 seconds.
We then started fanning out to cover the compound. And found only 2 entrances, 1 hole in the wall at the West side and the main gates at the east (we did check for more but didn't notice any) This is a little bit unfair for the police to try and enter the compound, as these 2 entrances create bottlenecks. The only vantage point to the compound visible was slightly raised hilltop to the North East. This from what i have seen would be the only external vantage point.
Anyway, we saw 1 police vehicle moving towards us from the prison. This was a single officer who took cover in some bushes as there wasn't any backup on scene as we had planted a charge within 45 seconds of landing. So in under 6 minutes we had the vault open and were able to start taking gold bars.
I believe there was a total of 26 gold bars in the vault, and we managed to take 2 each, leaving behind 10. Myself and the guys involved felt that the gold bar amount in the vault, and the weights are pretty spot on. The value they sell for is fair also. (Its not too little nor to high)
We then all climbed into the chopper and flew off into the night. Headed for the gold seller on the Tobacco drying island. (We chose this one as it was the furthest away. However while doing so it became apparent that the police would have little to no chance in getting close to us in time, let alone stopping us from selling)
We then banked our cash and disappeared.
So as fun as this was, we all talked about the ease of the operation and unlike the first Treasury robbers we would provide much needed feedback. I recorded the whole thing (12 mins long) for you too take a peek at @TinyBigJacko(hopefully this provides further insight. I will PM this to you)
Feedback and Suggestions
- The entire operation, from landing to selling was less than 15 mins. This was extremely fast and encourages no RP in the current build.
- Doors to the vault buildings could do with being locked like Altis, this in return would slow down the entrance of rebels. (Bolt cutters were not needed at this current attempt)
- The entrances to the vault make it extremely hard for the police to get in the compound
- Given the condition of the roads in Tanoa, lots of the police on patrol at this time had not much chance of getting anywhere close to Vault/Treasury.
- With no NPAS currently the police were fairly helpless to track, follow or engage
- The blasting charge timer DESPERATELY needs to be increased. To a minimum of at least 8-10 mins to allow police to get there.
- Bolt Cutters could have a limited use amount. Say 3 times ?
- The gold buyer on the south western Island is extremely inaccessible for the police. The only way for them to currently get here is via boat. (boats aren't all that quick vs helicopters) maybe Police could get a FAST boat that is capable of maybe 200 km/ph
- Boats could do with lights
Anything i missed here guys @blaze1981@Khandamirplease mention it.
hope this helps
And as mentioned there are currently some issues to mention. Here is my feedback from this experience.
First to note we had 8 guys as the heist team, and the vehicle of choice for this operation was a helicopter.
We flew in and landed inside the compound, all jumping out from the helicopter but the pilot. Our pilot then flew up around 150-200m to keep an eye out for police attending. By this time we had moved to the vault buildings to find the vault. Firstly to point out here all the doors on both building were not locked and opening them, entering the building and planting a blasting charge on the vault took around 45 seconds.
We then started fanning out to cover the compound. And found only 2 entrances, 1 hole in the wall at the West side and the main gates at the east (we did check for more but didn't notice any) This is a little bit unfair for the police to try and enter the compound, as these 2 entrances create bottlenecks. The only vantage point to the compound visible was slightly raised hilltop to the North East. This from what i have seen would be the only external vantage point.
Anyway, we saw 1 police vehicle moving towards us from the prison. This was a single officer who took cover in some bushes as there wasn't any backup on scene as we had planted a charge within 45 seconds of landing. So in under 6 minutes we had the vault open and were able to start taking gold bars.
I believe there was a total of 26 gold bars in the vault, and we managed to take 2 each, leaving behind 10. Myself and the guys involved felt that the gold bar amount in the vault, and the weights are pretty spot on. The value they sell for is fair also. (Its not too little nor to high)
We then all climbed into the chopper and flew off into the night. Headed for the gold seller on the Tobacco drying island. (We chose this one as it was the furthest away. However while doing so it became apparent that the police would have little to no chance in getting close to us in time, let alone stopping us from selling)
We then banked our cash and disappeared.
So as fun as this was, we all talked about the ease of the operation and unlike the first Treasury robbers we would provide much needed feedback. I recorded the whole thing (12 mins long) for you too take a peek at @TinyBigJacko(hopefully this provides further insight. I will PM this to you)
Feedback and Suggestions
- The entire operation, from landing to selling was less than 15 mins. This was extremely fast and encourages no RP in the current build.
- Doors to the vault buildings could do with being locked like Altis, this in return would slow down the entrance of rebels. (Bolt cutters were not needed at this current attempt)
- The entrances to the vault make it extremely hard for the police to get in the compound
- Given the condition of the roads in Tanoa, lots of the police on patrol at this time had not much chance of getting anywhere close to Vault/Treasury.
- With no NPAS currently the police were fairly helpless to track, follow or engage
- The blasting charge timer DESPERATELY needs to be increased. To a minimum of at least 8-10 mins to allow police to get there.
- Bolt Cutters could have a limited use amount. Say 3 times ?
- The gold buyer on the south western Island is extremely inaccessible for the police. The only way for them to currently get here is via boat. (boats aren't all that quick vs helicopters) maybe Police could get a FAST boat that is capable of maybe 200 km/ph
- Boats could do with lights
Anything i missed here guys @blaze1981@Khandamirplease mention it.
hope this helps