Disallowing gang alliances

[Liam]

Gangs should not be making alliances to overpower the LSPS or bully other gangs, it makes no sense. Majority of the gangs on the server have been at war a fair few times then all of a sudden they're allied and dominate the server. It doesn't make sense in RP, it feels very unrealistic.

Gangs don't even care when the LSPS arrive on a situation, they continue shooting in their OWN personal car, screaming down the radio with no fear factor that they could be shot, caught and sentenced to life for numerous murders. In a real life scenario, most gangs would scatter as soon as they heard police arriving or seen them so that they aren't caught but the most I've heard when arriving is - 

"Police won't do shit, keep shooting"

In reality, a gang wouldn't mess with the police as they know that they'll just get fucked by the police. This also counts as locking down hospitals with their massive weapons on display, attacking a PD. Majority of the real life situations of police stations being attacked are either in movies in the US and IN THE US. We shouldn't make the police overpowered and I understand it is a game but gangs shouldn't treat police as vending machines nor as pets.

I have played both sides before anyone comes in here criticising that I only main Police, that would be wrong. I don't see the need for gangs to team up to overpower a gang or the Police. Gangs have a max cap of 25? I RARELY see 20 cops on at the one time. The fact that gangs are dominating the server and overpowering Police so that we aren't capable of doing anything is horrendous. It not only makes is extremely unfair but it doesn't give us the motivation to play.

I was told a few weeks ago that two gangs were fighting each other and as soon as Police arrived to you know POLICE THE SITUATION as that's what they do, these two gangs just stopped fighting each other and both started shooting the police, how does that make sense? It doesn't. Someone being married from a rival gang shouldn't just make all gang feuds end and all the history of these gangs fighting to just disappear, it cuts off even more RP.

Sure you could say some of these alliances came from a strong standpoint in RP such as two individuals from different gangs marrying each other in RP, well another suggestion could be actual server rules in place to stop gangs circumventing the Gang cap of 25 and not involving themselves in the other gangs feuds.

 

[Coozer]

This

I do miss the times of when the gang update was first released and all these gangs were doing accents based on their gangs lore. @ConnorTheGreattstraining to keep up with the Triad accent same with @Ponty, @Joshuakeeping up with the marabunta accent. Was really immersive.

Funny that, @ConnorTheGreattdid the accent for about a week then left it, Fair to ponty he did it for longer but his playtime was far less. And @Joshua has stopped playing his char but out of all mentioned he did the accent the longest. 

But then we have me  still doing the accent to this day but people take it for granted and no longer praise people for going the extra mile. kinda demotivating TBH

 

[aqnr]

Would like to say that I love that the community is coming together to talk about this subject and sharing their opinions and matters.

 

[Luke]

Gang alliances should stay, and stay exactly how they are. They weren't a problem before Apostles and Azteca's merged into one, and still aren't in my opinion. In character, people see the Coalition as 2 gangs still, and likely will for a very long time. They have 2 turfs, 2 car parks, 2 colours even, everything you've done besides make a tweedle and dress the same, screams 'still 2 gangs'. So if Ballas have a problem with you guys, they're going to see it as a 2 on 1, so they get Triads involved to even gang numbers out. Alliances were never a problem before the Coalition, but you guys need to assert yourself more and really double down as a single gang to stop being in an 'unfair 2v1' situation.

When it comes to people mentioning how '2 gangs were trying to wipe each other out and are now chums it doesnt make sense' I see a couple issues here, and please just say it with your chest, its Triads and Ballas you're talking about. Firstly, no one is ever just trying to wipe people out, it may be said in RP in heated wars, for example Aztecas and Vagos back in the day, the amount of times it was said by both Aztecas and us was pretty mad, but thats because it was a deep rooted, lore driven rivalry that went on for a VERY long time. Secondly, when it comes to Tri-Ballas, yes a couple months ago there was a heated war, a few of them, Ballas had a big change, their toxic people were gone, their roster started getting filled with people that were friends of some Triads, so the heat died down, friendships and relationships formed etc, we settled differences and became friends and then allies, it all makes sense if you were there and not just assuming based off of an outside perspective.

(to whoever mentioned Ballas being there in the Vagos Vs Azteca wars to 'medic', the amount of times they purposefully got in the way, got themselves shot and started fighting too because they were bored was unreal, Triads stayed well out of the way and didn't even get us all in case they got in the way half the time. And don't get me started on the time you had 3 or 4 gangs Vs Vagos and we still didn't call Triads straight away)

When it comes to Police and gangs, again the purpose of alliances isn't purely to fuck up the Police, its always just in case some help is needed, no matter the context. The police always come to turfs swinging their dicks around to get a reaction. 2 days ago a lone CID officer on a BF400, wearing nothing to identify himself was going back and fourth past Ballas turf, radioing and getting close, stopping in front of the gates etc, when he knew that there was potentially something stirring between Tri-Ballas and the Coalition, which he's putting himself in the direct centre of. He was checked, but put his frontline cap on and panicked, with guns to his head, and a bunch of Trojan turned up, we gave the guy back, apologised for the mix-up, told them we don't intend to start anything with the Police and spoke nicely to them, asking them to leave. Moments later the Trojan units just started shooting, against 2 gangs, 4 officers. Stuff like this is why the Police aren't trusted and always told to fuck off, because at the first convenience they will start something that'll escalate wildly into something uncontrollable and messy, all because of a single officer who thinks its a good idea to antagonise 2 gangs and place themselves in the middle of a potential warzone. So having an allied gang to help combat this type of thing is perfectly valid in my opinion. 

Gang alliances make sense and should stay, thats my point. They're never made to 'wipe out another gang' or to 'completely fuck over the Police'. They're made so if needed, one gang has the other to back them, whether that be fighting, grinding, even just messing about and having fun. I will agree that recently it has been a shit show. There have been Tri-Ballas shootouts with Police and Coalition. So I see exactly where you're coming from. I just ask that people think about it a bit more and see the reasons behind it all in RP.

2 Recent Examples:

Police shootout at the power station a week or so ago, Ballas leader is on the way to jail, after Ju-Long getting RIDICULOUS jail time in the past, they dont want to risk it, to make sure it went well as there were Blackhawks out etc, they asked for our help, we hit the convoy and got him out, it makes sense to help so we did it. 

The Coalition over the past few days, as stated above, you're still seen as 2 gangs, to be blunt, I know you guys have put a lot of effort into this already, but you need to put more effort in to be seen as one. So Ballas asked for us to back them, we did, it was a 2v2 from our side, it made sense, so we did it. 

 

[Liam]

Funny that, @ConnorTheGreattdid the accent for about a week then left it, Fair to ponty he did it for longer but his playtime was far less. And @Joshua has stopped playing his char but out of all mentioned he did the accent the longest. 

But then we have me  still doing the accent to this day but people take it for granted and no longer praise people for going the extra mile. kinda demotivating TBH

Tbh, I haven't played enough and came into contact with you to say that I've noticed that you've still used the accent, the only times I've met you recently on three of my characters you have been using a voice changer.

Trust me, people do praise people for keeping up the accent.

Gang alliances should stay, and stay exactly how they are. They weren't a problem before Apostles and Azteca's merged into one, and still aren't in my opinion. In character, people see the Coalition as 2 gangs still, and likely will for a very long time. They have 2 turfs, 2 car parks, 2 colours even, everything you've done besides make a tweedle and dress the same, screams 'still 2 gangs'. So if Ballas have a problem with you guys, they're going to see it as a 2 on 1, so they get Triads involved to even gang numbers out. Alliances were never a problem before the Coalition, but you guys need to assert yourself more and really double down as a single gang to stop being in an 'unfair 2v1' situation.
 

Your post is too large for my current reply as going to see the new spiderman film but I will say the Aztecas and Apostles as The Coalition are a total of 25 members. In my eyes that's one gangs, not two. Yes they have 2 safes, 2 turfs but that's SoonTM to be removed as they no longer see themselves as The Apostles nor The Aztecas.

Also what about a Triad gang member threatening to blow himself up for another gang member (Ballas)? Doesn't make sense imo

Let's just try and keep this on topic for the next few posts so that this doesn't get lost in the piles of forum posts due to the amount of comments 

 

[Luke]

Also what about a Triad gang member threatening to blow himself up for another gang member (Ballas)? Doesn't make sense imo

Not every choice made is to represent your gang, if he has a strong enough friendship with that person to be willing to do that, then it doesnt have to be seen as a gang thing you know? Were all individuals at the end of the day and just because we make choices and are in a gang, doesnt mean its a choice that is made as a Triad if you get what I mean.

Aztecas and Apostles as The Coalition are a total of 25 members. In my eyes that's one gangs, not two. Yes they have 2 safes, 2 turfs but that's SoonTM to be removed as they no longer see themselves as The Apostles nor The Aztecas.

As stated before, I see what's being attempted, how ever as of right now, with the 2 turfs etc, it just seems within roleplay that it is 2 gangs and will probably be treated that way until the RP and the group develops further.

 

[iSky0]

Alliances of gangs against police is powergaming as long as we dont have an army to deploy from Fort Zancudo, change my mind 

Jokes aside though in real life if a gang or two happen to go against police, first of all its very rare, second of all if it happens they'll probably get the army to intervene due to it becoming terrorism at that rate, because it's taking advantage of understaffed police, fair enough a group of 4 people up to a gang can sometimes win over police and kill them all but two gangs ganging up on police as if we're a group of people that have beef with them doesnt simulate the real world.

My recommendation is when something like that happen, allow for a superior panic button that allows certain people to deploy from Fort Zancudo with army level powers and take down these gangs and if they die then can respawn and go again (the army) 

The ideal approach that needs to be taken by gangsters is for them to escape a gang shootout when police arrive at scene like it is in movies or real life, thats one way to roleplay it.

 

[Ade]

Fascinating thread. I see the arguments for and against but the overarching theme here, that is clear from all sides, is that this is something everyone is very passionate about.

That said why not let it all play out in RP (just like everything else).

Instead of trying to implement rules that may or may not get enforced easily/adequately (pressure on the staff team being the biggest if everyone plays the report game) and instead look to combat this "issue" from within.

At the end of the day guys and girls this is a roleplay server. It has a deeper level of intrigue and subterfuge for some people and at its core it provides far more excitement than a regular gta lobby. Its the relationships, alliances, vendettas and everything else in between that is created and destroyed in interactions.

Both sides should really be thinking about what it is they are bringing to the server, exercise a little grey matter and think carefully about how they can assuage, resolve or improve the situation, WITHIN RP.

The police can set up an Anti Gang Task force. Recruit or promote from within the ranks of officers to build a proper solid squad of officers to combat this. If need be then ramp up recruitment for the Police to pad out numbers, give the recruits a reason to log in and get active, set times for Anti gang operations (they call it raid times in other games ) and bulk up the presence. Rico cases can be used to extend jail times of members who get caught. punish them IN GAME for their actions instead of bringing it to a forum war. (If you haven't seen it go watch Den Of Thieves and see Gerard Butler and the regulators. or the shield.

On the flip side the gangs themselves can build more cohesive units together, alliances and pacts form. they have to be more cautious about what activities they undertake in and out of colours for fear of getting grabbed. They will be fighting against other gangs and even more if the police get sorted and organised and only the strongest alliances will prevail as it will take some truly strong leadership to prevail over this one.

Personally speaking, id be even more inclined to play not less if this was played out more in RP and less on the forum. A full on server war with Weasel News capturing the ingame events could be just what the server needs to increase popularity, just remember, you as community members are all representative of the success or failure of the server.

TLR. This could be bigger than EVE and its subterfuge if you play it out right. This is dynamic content on a server wide scale but it needs to be implemented by the players and not let this devolve in to a shitflinging episode like it (in part so far) has done.

I think this is one of the best threads of discussion Ive read in a while and its fascinating to see what happens next.

 

[HyperG1]

In my honest opinion, if 2 gangs have the same beef and have any business that's at risk of course they will join up and push back the gang that is causing the issue. personally, I don't see this being a problem at all gangs will sometimes come and work as one to protect their interests and deals always so -1

 

[Chilli]

The police can set up an Anti Gang Task force.

unless that task force is 100 members big it literally is the problem stated in liams post of the police get outnumbered massively with all PCs vs 2 gangs. let alone only AFOs vs gangs. so that part still wont help

 

[Ade]

unless that task force is 100 members big it literally is the problem stated in liams post of the police get outnumbered massively with all PCs vs 2 gangs. let alone only AFOs vs gangs. so that part still wont help

So start recruiting. Then start organising yourselves (the police) and then start arresting the criminals and putting them on life sentences so that the numbers are declining slowly and it sends a warning to other crims about forming up huge alliances........

Its not gonna happen overnight but if youre smart about it, it will happen. Its a game of inches. Surely I made that part clear?

 

[Liam]

So start recruiting. Then start organising yourselves (the police) and then start arresting the criminals and putting them on life sentences so that the numbers are declining slowly and it sends a warning to other crims about forming up huge alliances........

Its not gonna happen overnight but if youre smart about it, it will happen. Its a game of inches. Surely I made that part clear?

Police have a max online cap of 30/35 whilst these gangs combined are at a 50 gang cap. Life sentences need to be approved by Staff Leads, Dev Leads and Management AFAIK.

 

[Ade]

Police have a max online cap of 30/35 whilst these gangs combined are at a 50 gang cap. Life sentences need to be approved by Staff Leads, Dev Leads and Management AFAIK.

Understood the Life Sentence thing isnt easy or handed out willy nilly and yes I got you with the 50 vs 35 thing. I didnt know the police cap but yes I get it with the gangs being 50 max plus all the hangers on, of which there are no doubt plenty of extras but still if enforced properly within RP i see it being the best way to take it down. Makes it more immersive for all involved.

Maybe the police cap needs to be raised to combat this kind of thing. And then let it play out in rp?

 

[Liam]

Understood the Life Sentence thing isnt easy or handed out willy nilly and yes I got you with the 50 vs 35 thing. I didnt know the police cap but yes I get it with the gangs being 50 max plus all the hangers on, of which there are no doubt plenty of extras but still if enforced properly within RP i see it being the best way to take it down. Makes it more immersive for all involved.

Maybe the police cap needs to be raised to combat this kind of thing. And then let it play out in rp?

The police max cap should be raised but I'm not entirely sure what the cap should be at to make it fair for police and the civilian population on the server. Life sentences have been proposed before and people have gotten life but, I don't think it would be fair nor fun to send the entire gang population of Triads, Ballas and whomever helps them into a life sentence, it is a game at the end of the day. 

 

[Stavik]

As we are nearing the end of the year and all there will be no more rule meetings. But we are planning one for early next year and this post is on the agenda.
It's run its course i think and i will look it until we've had the meeting.

Thank you all!