Bank Ops - Do me a favour pleeaaassseeeee

[nozeinho]

I would just like to add to my post that obviously not at all times can a shootout be avoided, sometimes it just HAS to happen, but we are capable of keeping this at a minimum if we actually give it some good effort. 

 

[FriendlyFireGuy]

I would just like to add to my post that obviously not at all times can a shootout be avoided, sometimes it just HAS to happen, but we are capable of keeping this at a minimum if we actually give it some good effort. 

Yep - Good post and agree completely. Hopefully this topic will raise awareness for all. Thanks Noz.

 

[FriendlyFireGuy]

Ref my previous post - I'm basically trying to say that perhaps sometimes (often?) there's an expectation the Police will come in guns  blazing - change the expectation, change the result?

 

[NooSe]

Ref my previous post - I'm basically trying to say that perhaps sometimes (often?) there's an expectation the Police will come in guns  blazing - change the expectation, change the result?

Reffering back to what Fuel said earlier, a lot of the time, its maybe one or 2 units on scene then the shortly behind, the first couple of units there arrive before any communication has gone into play its either shot at/killed/told to fuck off, I think this has become the norm (not ideally but just has come around) but I completely agree with you FFG changing our approach to a "Bank Job" would defiantly be a good thing, however this being said if we change our approach the rebel must change theirs. 

 

[FriendlyFireGuy]

Reffering back to what Fuel said earlier, a lot of the time, its maybe one or 2 units on scene then the shortly behind, the first couple of units there arrive before any communication has gone into play its either shot at/killed/told to fuck off, I think this has become the norm (not ideally but just has come around) but I completely agree with you FFG changing our approach to a "Bank Job" would defiantly be a good thing, however this being said if we change our approach the rebel must change theirs. 

Again, another valid point. I think it's clear to everyone reading this that those that have posted here are receptive to change, cheers Snapey.

I do think if the police have a "known" procedure (combined with an experienced officer as negotiator - as mentioned by Simon ) this at least extends an opportunity for more RP at bank ops, then rebels only have themselves to blame if it's never taken.

Again, it's a 50:50 thing but it takes one side to start the ball rolling, and I think we, as cops could do that.

Rebels etc: If the police always gave you the option of anything other than a gunfight, would you take that option more regularly?

 

[Sovereign]

 

I am sorry sovereign, this is where I believe you are mistaken the police never use the Negotiator as a ploy or diversion, we actually want to RP, we do not profit from it and no we are not their for a fight we actually get pissed off hoping that one day someone will actually try to RP with us.

we do not use the negotiator to get into positions we actually get into positions before the negotiator goes in, just in case the negotiations go south.

I disagree as in a situation not even involving the bank robbery or hostages such as the cocaine event it has occurred on my end.

For example at the cocaine event we saw the police land their helicopter on a hill and Spenny(Now Mr. Tickle.) texted to me that he would come to negotiate and I agreed as long as his men don't move to which he agreed. With past experience of police repositioning we watched them and they started moving east down the hill so I immediately texted him that I'm calling negotiations off,because we do not tolerate these tactics and negotiations didn't even start yet. He then kept asking to negotiate a few more times,because he believed it wasn't to late. I appreciate the willingness to RP and negotiate,but negotiations can and will be called off within seconds of suspicious behavior which I told him. 

Additionally when the treasury was near Telos the town and hills would be infested with police taking positions (Sometimes rebels would have snipers at the windmills and see them doing this.) and the NHS Hospital was removed from between Telos and the airport,because it was used as a sniping position by both parties which I've seen myself when I was RPing with the NHS. 

I also recall telling God about police behavior and reputation of behavior a very long time ago the exact day Vladic Ka joined the police which was the day BRC were asked to hold a staged hostage situation to see if the server wide hostage taking ban could be lifted.(This resulted in the blueberry safety rules). It was one of the best RP experiences I've ever had on the server and in the end he ordered everyone to open fire after he drove out of sight with a hostage and and his fake family that I RPed existed.Once more around the time PLF got their base in the Red Zone,when he asked us for help. My response was the same both times. "I've expected integrity with police behavior and I have seen none." (God this isn't an attack on you,I've just told you this before in situations that match the criteria of this thread.)

Again, another valid point. I think it's clear to everyone reading this that those that have posted here are receptive to change, cheers Snapey.

I do think if the police have a "known" procedure (combined with an experienced officer as negotiator - as mentioned by Simon ) this at least extends an opportunity for more RP at bank ops, then rebels only have themselves to blame if it's never taken.

Again, it's a 50:50 thing but it takes one side to start the ball rolling, and I think we, as cops could do that.

Rebels etc: If the police always gave you the option of anything other than a gunfight, would you take that option more regularly?

The sentiment is nice,but the incentive is little. As I've stated typically the offer is about 200K to leave and it fails in comparison to 20 million. Snipers and SOS scopes would never be given and a shits and giggles "prison bus full of apples" still would not work,because of the sheer amount of money at stake. I honestly believe the gold bar limit has to be reduced if this approach is to be taken,but to what extent and rage of the profiting robbers I do not know. Even then it may fail,because when it was a mere 150K of on hand money it was still a beacon for a gunfight on the server,you went for the fight and the money was just a bonus.

It's generally seen as a city attack you don't need permission for,pays you, and doesn't involve innocent civilians. RP suffers from this situation,because it is not a requirement and can hurt you if you try it. In the police perspective they only get to fight and they want the RP to have more fun and I understand that,but it has been tainted,because of what has and can happen. In the rebel perspective the fight is the fun and the gold is a very large and very nice reward. The risk/reward factor combined with past experiences of tainted negotiations has lead to a no-negotiations policy,because it increases the risk of the rebel in both the fight and the reward.

Police Get

-A fight

Rebels Get

-A fight

-Money

Optional

-Negotiation RP

Admittedly police get less out of the situation and negotiation RP is the only current thing they can get other than a fight,but if anyone can think of something else to add for them I'm open to suggestions. I'm thinking CCTV or something along those lines.

On an unrelated note rebel negotiators have no server rule protection. Thankfully I've only seen this used against rebels once in a strategic move,but it will also piss of rebels to not negotiate as well.

As anyone who has been reading my comments all through this thread can tell, the negotiator problem(in every form) has literally existed in the lifetime of the server and I'm very weary of this subject.

 

[Jay]

k lads, we'll rob the bank and I'll negotiate with you.

If I can get an SI to fork over money for a driving violation I'm sure I can talk enough nonsense for long enough to whip some gold away.

I want recordings from every angle, make it look like a bloody sitcom, I want fake laughter, unrealistic lighting, a dumb blonde and a womaniser and we'll show the world what RP can do.

Even if it fails, I still want to try it.

 

[Vlad Vagin]

Here's another 1:

Take 1-2 cops hostage, keep them at an undisclosed location. Have 2-5 people robbing the bank with one unarmed individual waiting for the police.

When the cops arrive, calmly tell the cops you have a couple of police hostages and if they move with 2K of the bank you'll execute them. Tell the cops they have 10 minutes to follow a series of "waypoints" (which are miles away from the bank) to find the hostages, which coincidently, is about how long you'll need to complete the robbery. Send the cops count down messages every minute to add drama. (Have a heli watching to make sure all cops at the bank follow those way points)

If the cops find the hostages in time, they can move in on you safely - but of course you may already be gone. If they don't then who knows!

I agree with you. But last time we had a officer hostage at the bank, the police used the nagotiation to stall and get in possition. Then they said nagotiations is off, and started shooting a few minutes later.

And we didnt get a good reason. I'm more than happy to try and RP the bank. And I have tryed solo and with 1 friend a few times. But it never works. We allways gets shot down. Even if we ask for a nagotiator.

I know we have alot of trigger happy rebels on this island. But the cops have the same eager to go in to combat it seems like. And it's understandable, combat is awesome in arma!

But what PLF do is play wastland/koth to get that shit out of your system, and altis when you want to use your mouth as a weapon.

Mby some of the trigger happy people on the island shoud try it.

Headsup popo: I forgot some of my grandmas gold at the bank. So I might call you from there later

 

[FriendlyFireGuy]

OK Vladi and Sov - Thanks for your input, really appreciate it. I'll have a chat to cops and see if there's something we can do. I do feel that bank op guidelines that always provides at least an option for some RP could/would be a good idea.

Ref negotiation, it doesn't always need to end with cops giving you 200K, there are other possibilities.

Let's see what we can do.

On another note, I know the TI gang are keen to try and vary the RP at the bank so there appears to be a general willingness to try something different.

So is it fair to say we have the following?

(at least elements from

• UNMC (presumably)
• PLF
• TI (from my TS conversation with 1 of them this week)

3 known organisations (or members of said organisations) that are at least "open" to the possibility of "different" RP at the bank?

If that's the case, I'll bring it up at the next cops meeting and suggest we try to put some sort of guidelines in place which means everyone robbing the bank & cops are aware that there is a POSSIBLE way out rather than a gunfight. Furthermore, perhaps guidelines that will also give any negotiation chance to work (to avoid cops repositioning during negotiations etc etc).
 
If I can do that, would you guys be on board?
 
At the end of the day I can only suggest all this, I'm just a lowly Desk Sgt but I'm happy to (try and) drive it if everyone reading this is willing to try. It will fail at points but we can improve it going forward. The past is the past and we've evolved as a community big time this year so I'm sure we can get this improved and make it jolly good fun for rebels and cops alike.
 
If the cop higher ups are open to trying it I'd be happy to work with you all on putting the guidelines together so it's in the interest of all where new forms of RP are concerned.
 
Again for any casual observers, this is not a quest to stop gun fights, it's a quest to vary the bank jobs and give us all some entertainment in the process.
 
Thanks everyone for the input, I'll pass it upwards. Cheers.

 

[FriendlyFireGuy]

k lads, we'll rob the bank and I'll negotiate with you.

If I can get an SI to fork over money for a driving violation I'm sure I can talk enough nonsense for long enough to whip some gold away.

I want recordings from every angle, make it look like a bloody sitcom, I want fake laughter, unrealistic lighting, a dumb blonde and a womaniser and we'll show the world what RP can do.

Even if it fails, I still want to try it.

I'll be the womaniser the dumb blonde. You're on!

 

[Starsky]

Here is an example of one of the reasons why we move in position:

PLF begins heist.

Message is broadcasted to all users.

Police arrive.

Negotiations begin.

TI arrive and are moving into position.

LRG arrive and move into position.

DC arrive and move into position.

Cops have no idea what the fuck is going on.

Snowflake gets into position.

Someone other than PLF kills a cop. (Most likely Snowflake because he is at EVERY bank heist).

RIP cops because we are out of position and suddenly everyone is a threat.

Bye bye gold.

 

[FriendlyFireGuy]

Here is an example of one of the reasons why we move in position:

PLF begins heist.

Message is broadcasted to all users.

Police arrive.

Negotiations begin.

TI arrive and are moving into position.

LRG arrive and move into position.

DC arrive and move into position.

Cops have no idea what the fuck is going on.

Snowflake gets into position.

Someone other than PLF kills a cop. (Most likely Snowflake because he is at EVERY bank heist).

RIP cops because we are out of position and suddenly everyone is a threat.

Bye bye gold.

Fair point. Let's address that then.

Are the police too inward looking then? I.e. All eyes on the bank itself and not on a perimeter as well? How could we stop that happening in your opinion?

I haven't experienced exactly that myself in honesty. (OF course I've seen other gangs helping but in my experience it isn't to the extremes you mention and it's certainly not 100% of the time.)

 

[Starsky]

Fair point. Let's address that then.

Are the police to inward looking then? I.e. All eyes on the bank itself and not on a perimeter as well? How could we stop that happening in your opinion?

I haven't experienced exactly that myself in honesty. (OF course I've seen other gangs helping but in my experience it isn't to the extremes you mention.)

No were not that its the message that blares on screen telling everyone and their mother that the bank is being robbed. Then one of us gets killed and I stand there like wtf as ALL of it falls to pieces. I asked Maratek to bring it up and get the message to only show for police but no response since then.

 

[FriendlyFireGuy]

No were not that its the message that blares on screen telling everyone and their mother that the bank is being robbed. Then one of us gets killed and I stand there like wtf as ALL of it falls to pieces. I asked Maratek to bring it up and get the message to only show for police but no response since then.

OK again I see the point and it makes sense. I agree and the global message is bound to invite further participation from other gangs / rubber neckers.

So i'll add that to my suggestion to improve RP opportunities and cut down on gun fights then: Bank robbed message only for cops.

(Don't you think though sometimes other rebels seeing the bank being robbed offers other opportunities? And if other gangs were to get involved they could pre-plan it anyway?)

Good dog Starsky.

 

[Kris!]

PLF often arranges bank jobs with its allies, but only those you can see on our gang page. As far as it goes with other gangs, they're turning up on their own accord and will likely be threated, shot and if surviving, shot again.

I completely agree with removing the bank announcement to everyone BUT the cops.

 

[Sovereign]

No were not that its the message that blares on screen telling everyone and their mother that the bank is being robbed. Then one of us gets killed and I stand there like wtf as ALL of it falls to pieces. I asked Maratek to bring it up and get the message to only show for police but no response since then.

I remember this and it would help with the third party problem,but not the core problem. Still baby steps toward a common goal is something.

 

[lionel]

PLF often arranges bank jobs with its allies, but only those you can see on our gang page. As far as it goes with other gangs, they're turning up on their own accord and will likely be threated, shot and if surviving, shot again.

I completely agree with removing the bank announcement to everyone BUT the cops.

Would be nice if medics were informed too, although 12 dead at the bank is a pretty good giveaway

 

[Sovereign]

Would be nice if medics were informed too, although 12 dead at the bank is a pretty good giveaway

Honestly probably not, as both sides get paranoid medics will revive either police or rebels before it is officially over,usually in a lull in combat when many are dead and gunfire is less frequent,but it's not over as it can tip the scales in combat.