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Bank Ops - Do me a favour pleeaaassseeeee

& now for my second favourite bank robbery story.

It was about a week or so after the UNMC arrived, we didn't have the wall or anything yet so we decided to rob the bank.

We got into positions, opened the door, placed the charge and messaged the cops saying we had all the bank workers hostage. It worked, a negotiator came in and not a single shot was fired the entire time we were in the bank. We told them we were only going to take 5 million worth, and be on our way. I can't remember what reasoning we gave for taking it, but the negotiator was good and the cops went along with it.

After we had our 50 bars (yes, we held true to our word), we left without incident, but we were tailed by a hummingbird and an offroad from the bank all the way to the salt flats, us stopping along the way to try take them, or their tyres out. Another police offroad joined in just before the salt flats so we lead them onto it knowing we could surround and crossfire them. The HEMTT with the gold ended up with no tyres, so we all hopped out of our cars and literally massacred maybe a dozen cops while only taking 1 casualty - The joys of firing upon coverless and flanked opponents :D . We got the gold back to the base and divvied it up.

Strange that my 2 favourite bank jobs out of the countless ones I've done in my time here are completely different when it comes to the actual robbery part, yet both were very enjoyable.

End of story, if you don't wana read it

Personally, I do agree with you that the negotiator thing should be tried more often than not, however the mistrust that has developed recently is a big factor. The joys of being WLR is that we can still see the civ sidechat, and being privvy to the majority of the servers concerns on a daily basis is what I'm basing this on, seeing as the bank is a hell of a trek for us UNMC to embark on, and we have alot of crap to deal with ourselves regularly, which is why we don't do it too often.

With our wall and checkpoint suddenly being dismantled, maybe we will do more bank jobs in this style in the future, maybe mix it up a little as well. Making all our hostile encounters fun for both sides is a big priority for us.

 
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FriendlyFireGuy said:
Cheers Jay. Totally understand, if using a negotiator is a ploy to stall it will inevitably hold no value in the future.

I'm not saying there should never be a shootout, or there should always be negotiation, I'm just unsure why anyone actually enjoys going to a bank op every day knowing the outcome will either be: cops dead / robbers dead. Well, for the record, If i'm unlucky enough to be involved in a bank job and if i'm running it on that occasion, I'll try and come up with something a little different, if it fails then hey ho, it's worth a try.
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Negotiators have always been a ploy in any situation which is the problem. I also forgot to mention they're also sent in to report who the robbers are and how many are inside the bank,which again is a tactical advantage people don't want to give away.

The question of why is simple really. A fun firefight with a massive payoff for rebels. The police side is pretty much the firefight,because their meant to stop it due to RP reasons. I'd also like to note that way back in the old days Jay spoke of about 6 months ago certain cops would wait until the bank job was over (because the player robbing would have the money physically on them when the timer ended.) and then kill them to pick up the money off of their corpse to profit.Thankfully this was countered when the bank was moved away from Pyrgos. 

Essentially nobody will give ground,because the money will help the robbers in the long term and police will stop it so that they do not have that advantage of staying well supplied and armed for an extended period. Neither side will give way due to the long term implications.(Long term as in a week or two depending on how liberal the robbing party spends their money after it is divided.)

 
Snap, somebody should try to rob the bank.and say that they're Snowwhite and all she wants is some money for her midgets. Dammit, why hasn't this been done yet?

 
I am sorry sovereign, this is where I believe you are mistaken the police never use the Negotiator as a ploy or diversion, we actually want to RP, we do not profit from it and no we are not their for a fight we actually get pissed off hoping that one day someone will actually try to RP with us.

we do not use the negotiator to get into positions we actually get into positions before the negotiator goes in, just in case the negotiations go south.

but all we ever get is "Leave or Die"

Similar to the bank job last night 

where you guys took the gold to UNMC territory because you know we can not follow you good job.

 
DI Fuel said:
where you guys took the gold to UNMC territory because you know we can not follow you good job.
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The only UNMC involved in this was Bob the rest were LRG as far as I could tell. I wouldn't like to accuse the UNMC in general. On top of this sovereign has stated in a post a week or so ago on the forums that he was happy for us to enter UNMC territory with the exception of their base and if we do so to expect extreme hostility from the UNMC. The rule about entering their zone is a police rule which 

Personally I'd like some clarification on this type of situation from Maratek, Vlad & Neo... I can understand that a lone officer should turn around if they're chasing someone into their for speeding... (Although with the new checkpoint rules [when the checkpoint was there] negated that) But when we've been perusing from the bank, got a hellcat following, humming bird with multiple officers in it and several cars in pursuit are we (Or Di's and above) able to make a judgement on the situation and decide if it is worth continuing, rather than sitting at the boarder as we did last night, all a bit annoyed about the situation with no one CSI or above reachable and everyone else concerned about the implications of strolling across the line...

Should this be accepted by our Police leaders I certainly hope no one from UNMC gets the great idea that they will sit with the gold in their base... 

Despite this I quite enjoyed the chase until the point they hid in UNMC's area with some nice spike traps set by some conveniently placed new recruits as well as getting the tyres out on the hemmt again right at the UNMC boarder... Lots of excitement but a disappointing end with the guys hiding where we can't touch them as they did... Personally I would have liked it if they split the gold between the strider, iffrits and hunter that they had and seen them scatter over the map where we would have to decide the high value target... Or take it straight to the gold buyer in kavala and lock down the area and try to sell it... Keep the hemtt driving around slowly siphoning the gold out of it with other vehicles and storing it at houses around the map... there are so many opportunities that its a shame they chose to end it as they did

 
There is not enough time for negotiations... They take at least 10 mins to set up and and then actually making a trade takes another 10-15 mind pluss driving to and from the bank and when you have gangs exploiting to plant the charge before they have even broke into the bank (yes I have seen you do this) it throws all negotiations out the window...

If you want a proper negotiation at the bank you will need to make the bank impenetrable for atleast 15 mins then another 10 mins for the vault, this gives chance for police to actually negotiate instead of having to rush in and stop you from leaving... It also is quite fair to rebels that are robbing the bank because they can come back one their NLR is up.

 
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The Shadow said:
There is not enough time for negotiations... They take at least 10 mins to set up and and then actually making a trade takes another 10-15 mind pluss driving to and from the bank and when you have gangs exploiting to plant the charge before they have even broke into the bank (yes I have seen you do this) it throws all negotiations out the window...

If you want a proper negotiation at the bank you will need to make the bank impenetrable for atleast 15 mins then another 10 mins for the vault, this gives chance for police to actually negotiate instead of having to rush in and stop you from leaving... It also is quite fair to rebels that are robbing the bank because they can come back one their NLR is up.
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If those robbing the bank succeed and recognise that leaving will result in a shootout, it can always be RP'd before they leave the bank but after they've filled up with Gold - Admittedly, everyone would really WANT to have to do some RP though otherwise the cops will simply move in anyway.

I think the general situation is this: Out of those I ask in the police if they'd be willing to to be more creative and go for the RP over the shootout there is a resounding yes and an eagerness to do so.

So let's see what happens, we need rebels / criminals to get on board also.

 
I think the RP from the rebel side is really the issue here, unfortunately when it comes to the bank they get very greedy very quickly... I'd like to see a group of people set up, request a negotiator, take a back pack full each and secure their release by chopper. would be a lot more fun to do this rather than the person who goes in there being told all police shall leave or we will kill everyone... Making the bank time longer would work, giving the rebels more need to negotiate... I look forward to the day that 3 people manage to rob the bank... 1 to negotiate, 1 to get some gold in his bag and one to evac in a chopper... 

 
DSGT Simon said:
I think the RP from the rebel side is really the issue here, unfortunately when it comes to the bank they get very greedy very quickly... I'd like to see a group of people set up, request a negotiator, take a back pack full each and secure their release by chopper. would be a lot more fun to do this rather than the person who goes in there being told all police shall leave or we will kill everyone... Making the bank time longer would work, giving the rebels more need to negotiate... I look forward to the day that 3 people manage to rob the bank... 1 to negotiate, 1 to get some gold in his bag and one to evac in a chopper... 
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Agree...BUT on the other hand, we do have plenty of cops who are itching to run in an "fuck em up" (Possibly mainly newer cops that aren't bored of it yet) so I don't think it's quite 100% rebel side to be honest.

 
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Maybe we should stop with oh (P)CSO go and negotiate because you haven't got a gun... get some high ranking guys, and maybe some guidelines for negotiations... As is the thing with lower ranking members they often don't let the rebel's "win"... maybe the best thing is to let them get the gold and get them while they are transporting it... I feel that the call should be made by someone with more experience of the force and what is really possible...

 
My previus robbery I had a hostage, i attempted to establish contact with the police, which i finally acheived.

The response to i have a hostage was we do not believe you and we will carry on.

I tried to show the cop that I indeed had a hostage in zipties, and the first response was again they just thought the person was part of the robbery, which he wasn't.

Finally they believed me it was a hostage, the response was that the superior had already set thing in motion. So i chose to go back to the treasury and let the civ go, because he  did not serve any perpose.

During this i never let myself show completely incase of i was didn't want to be  insta detaint.

So the last robbery i was in on, we just texted the cops if they get close we would shoot them. Which is shitty for RP. I wish there were a way both parties can get some RP going, and not just after the shootout.

 
DSGT Simon said:
Maybe we should stop with oh (P)CSO go and negotiate because you haven't got a gun... get some high ranking guys, and maybe some guidelines for negotiations... As is the thing with lower ranking members they often don't let the rebel's "win"... maybe the best thing is to let them get the gold and get them while they are transporting it... I feel that the call should be made by someone with more experience of the force and what is really possible...
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Absolutely - In fact, Perhaps we should designate a certain rank as the minimum rank permitted to act as negotiator to give it some "weight".

I'd like to think if rebels saw perhaps a SGT and above as negotiator they'd take it more seriously. Especially if it was clear the negotiator was unarmed i.e. no back pack, no tazer, etc etc.

Good call Simon.

Furthermore perhaps we should have a set procedure such as: Always make contact with the robbers (RP'd obviously) and always assign a negotiator and make it known this has happened (as in IRL). Rebels don't "have" to negotiate at all, but if it becomes known one is always assigned and present it may make them consider it more?

If cops arrive on scene first and make contact they can set up a perimeter and inform the robbers a negotiator is enroute and as long as they stay in the bank nothing will happen until the negotiator arrives? Again, there is no requirement for the robbers to play ball, just a police procedure that offers out the possibility of RP and negotiations if the rebels choose too.

Needless to say, if the negotiator is harmed, it removes the offer of negotiation completely.

Opinions from "higher ups" ref this?

Opinions from rebels ref this?

 
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FriendlyFireGuy said:
Absolutely - In fact, Perhaps we should designate a certain rank as the minimum rank permitted to act as negotiator to give it some "weight".

I'd like to think if rebels saw perhaps a SGT and above as negotiator they'd take it more seriously. Especially if it was clear the negotiator was unarmed i.e. no back pack, no tazer, etc etc.

Good call Simon.

Furthermore perhaps we should have a set procedure such as: Always make contact with the robbers (RP'd obviously) and always assign a negotiator and make it known this has happened (as in IRL). Rebels don't "have" to negotiate at all, but if it becomes known one is always assigned and present it may make them consider it more?

If cops arrive on scene first and make contact they can set up a perimeter and inform the robbers a negotiator is enroute and as long as they stay in the bank nothing will happen until the negotiator arrives? Again, there is no requirement for the robbers to play ball, just a police procedure that offers out the possibility of RP and negotiations if the rebels choose too.

Needless to say, if the negotiator is harmed, it removes the offer of negotiation completely.

Opinions from "higher ups" ref this?

Opinions from rebels ref this?
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Rebels see high rank.

They know it's not a PCSO.

They take high rank hostage.

Suddenly a lot harder for cops.

Still a shooting range.

Watdo.

 
SGT Starsky said:
Rebels see high rank.

They know it's not a PCSO.

They take high rank hostage.

Suddenly a lot harder for cops.

Still a shooting range.

Watdo.
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Possibly, but it opens up several other possibilities too. I'm not saying every bank job should result in a negotiating, of course not (i love a good shootout now and again) but if people do take a higher ranking cop (or middle management cop) hostage it will soon become known that it isn't tolerated and the police are much more likely to "Fuck them up".

Like training a dog - you should know about that Starsky, Good boy.

 
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FriendlyFireGuy said:
Absolutely - In fact, Perhaps we should designate a certain rank as the minimum rank permitted to act as negotiator to give it some "weight".

I'd like to think if rebels saw perhaps a SGT and above as negotiator they'd take it more seriously. Especially if it was clear the negotiator was unarmed i.e. no back pack, no tazer, etc etc.

Good call Simon.

Furthermore perhaps we should have a set procedure such as: Always make contact with the robbers (RP'd obviously) and always assign a negotiator and make it known this has happened (as in IRL). Rebels don't "have" to negotiate at all, but if it becomes known one is always assigned and present it may make them consider it more?

If cops arrive on scene first and make contact they can set up a perimeter and inform the robbers a negotiator is enroute and as long as they stay in the bank nothing will happen until the negotiator arrives? Again, there is no requirement for the robbers to play ball, just a police procedure that offers out the possibility of RP and negotiations if the rebels choose too.

Needless to say, if the negotiator is harmed, it removes the offer of negotiation completely.

Opinions from "higher ups" ref this?

Opinions from rebels ref this?
Click to expand...
My personal opinion on the bank is that both parties; Police and Rebels have too much built up tension prior to anything being engaged. I get it...it's an intense scenario, robbers are stealing from her majesty's treasury and it needs to be dealt with! However think of the age old saying 'Don't poke the hornets nest'. Pretend the bank robbers are metaphorical hornets congregating around their beloved nest that they cherish so much, if we (Police) storm in there, lights and sirens blazing, regardless of if our intentions are non-hostile, those hornets are going to start getting pissed. 

A suggestion i have, and attempted a week or two ago was that officers back off from the close vicinity but not entirely. A single negotiator is sent in and you have 2 groups of officers awaiting either end of the road out of the treasury waiting on standby. Sadly when i tried it the robbers where in my opinion a little hasty with their demands and didn't allow us enough time to comply, unfortunately ending in an inevitable showdown with guns.

It's the shear lack of and in some cases refusal to communicate with each other. A sole party is not to blame for this, it comes from both ends of the stick. As a whole it is essential that both sides at least attempt to engage in some sort of worthy role-play. People can point fingers and play the blame game for as long as they like, but this situation will not come to a stop until people realize it is both groups who are at fault.  

Up until this day arrives the bank will remain a hell hole suitable only for deathmatch arena style events.  

DI Nozeinho

 
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