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Why does it seem everyone in managment/devs/staff is so against "war."

HitAndStand

HitAndStand

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This isn't a complaint, I'm genuinely intrigued with the logic behind the distaste for two warring factions. 
It just seems to make little to no sense to me, but I'd love to hear opinions!

I also realise that I used the word "Everyone" and don't go ahead and blow that out of proportion please. 

 
I'll give my simple opinion 

1. People will start a war because someone called someone else fat

2.War's getting carried over into hospital and other unrealistic places  

Now exactly like you've stated not everyone but, this is how I've seen it go in the past

Something silly happens > War terms start > terms broken people getting shot in/out colours and in hospitals > dumping > crying in OOC and in RP > Not acting downed > Repeat 

Unless you switch things up and make them less toxic it's the same shite I continue to see. 

War will literally break out because two people had a run in with eachother so the whole gangs want to scrap ? 

War should be the last outcome possible for gangs, let's say these two people have had a run in and hate eachother? Can't you get them to have a fight or a rap battle or something entirely stupid and different/ unique.

Personal Opinion 

 
I agree, wars do happen for the stupidest of reasons. However, I can only speak on behalf of scenarios I have been in and for many of the wars caused by Aztecas/Coalition the only reason we've been pushed to that sceneario is because we give chance after chance to fix a situation and there is no return. 

I think the biggest reason is peoples "egos" on the server. 

I can strongly say this current war we are apart of (Coalition vs Vagos) was well justified and hasn't ended up with people crying in ooc or a forum war taking place. I would say for the most parts, both parties are having quite a fun time and yet, we're being told that we need to calm down? I just don't quite understand the logic behind it. 

I won't disagree with you, I have seen some ridiculous wars break out for the stupidest of reasons, but trying to end a sceneario through means bar RP just seems way out of pocket for me. 
 

 
I think you have to realise aswell, yes I agree a build up in RP is something that should be done anyways but you have two gangs with 25 people in them each, there is always going to be a few in each side of that gang that want to skip the build up and start shooting, kidnapping etc etc. It sometimes can't be helped how quick it jumps to war and all those shootouts that happen because it only takes 1 person out of those 50 people to start it.

I also agree that hospitals should be left alone, it's meant to be somewhere you feel safe and where you get better and also where the NHS staff are.

Also Drew A RAP BATTLE?? I would DIE, we are meant to be a gang of GANGSTERS there's no other way to settle stuff other than violence imo but yeah I do wish things had more of a build up OR a better reason. I do believe if it's a minor issue just sort that out yourself personally but yeah idk I feel like war can be fun which rn with the Vagos and Coalition is great.. no toxicity, no reporting etc I just hope it doesn't get intervened and both gangs can solve it themselves.

 
Personally I enjoy war in the server adds some variety to your routine and creates tension between gang members. That being said it can be caused over petty things we all know that and its no secret that a lot of recent wars/big gun fights are over stupid things but I think a good justified war with good RP can be really fun and good for the server in a way (Obviously staff dont want the server to look like a Frag/RZ server) but if its justified and both gangs take everything in RP meaning no stupid ass reports over small things that staff have to wade through for ages just for it to be sorted with a day ban. From what I've heard the current war between Vagos and Coalition has had some good RP in it as they all should. Regardless of getting smoked or not both gangs should enjoy the RP behind and in the wars as at the end of the day we are all here to have fun.

 
I know I'm not staff, but I have been around RPUK for over a year now and experienced gang wars through out my time on the server. 

Before hand, I was all up for wars but as Drew has stated, it all just starts with stupid reasons and no real RP behind it most of the time and ends with toxicity in the side chat. Unfortunately our standards of RP for war at the moment seems like GTA Online. It's a shame as it has a lot of potential and I do genuinely think that good RP can happen in gang wars. It is what we make it at the end of the day. Once people realise that it's not all about losing your stuff and making a storyline out of it, the server would be such a better place. 

Don't get me wrong, I love war on the server but I do agree with Drew and most likely a lot of other members of the community when he says war should be the last option to a certain extent. War should be after a build up of beef over the course of a longer time than just one scenario. Before hand there just be meetings, fist fights, melee battles etc. 

Thats just my opinion, but overall, gangs should provide better RP and don't get me wrong, I have been guilty of stuff in the past, but I am trying to set an example more so recently. I hope other gangs can do the same.

 
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Gangs are constantly reminded that they have to provide realistic RP so I don't know if I should laugh or cry over the suggestion of having a rap battle? No "real" gang would just sit by after one of their members got killed or injured.. but I think this is where the issue often starts, petty arguments or conflicts that lead to people/gang members mindlessly killing others and then things progressing from there. I think Gangs and their Leaders need to remind their members that realistically they shouldn't just go off and kill or injure others on their own accord. I feel that in "reality" these decisions need to be discussed with their Lead first because as we seen many times before a lot of wars or conflicts started because a gang member went on to act before seeking approval, often times forcing their Gang to back them up and creating a scenario that wasn't wanted in the first place. 

But I also agree with @Hayleythat there often times are situations where the build up RP to a war is done properly and over time and where both sites genuinely enjoyed the war and I feel this should be something that should be encouraged instead of being frowned upon by staff. Maybe others will follow the example of the Coallition and Vagos and create wars with clear set of rules that are enjoyable for BOTH sites and keep the innocent citizens out of it. 

And @Drew, I do believe that your idea of rap battles etc. are actually quite funny when it comes down to petty beef between gangs. I personally for example find the beef between Ballas and Grove quite funny where we push each others turf with blunt melee weapons and afterwards take each other to the hospital. No insults, no toxicity, just some "harmless" fun. But sadly this only work if the beef is "playful" or building up. In moments where someone seriously and with ill intentions harms and dumps one of your gang members there is a line being crossed already. But then again Gang Leaders should prevent this from happening imo. 

 
I'm not saying btw you should have a rap battle if people have been murdered and shot at 😅

I'm taking about ways to solve beef before that murder shit starts, example I've seen two gang members crash into one another in the street and they've just given eachother shit talk.. Next minute a whole gang rolls up to the others turf and wants to start something because of it? Gang leaders should always be looking at ways to calm the situations and resolve in a way that benefits them and doesn't make them look any less of a gang. 

Wars should always be last option, no IRL gang in my eyes would wanna start risking their lives because someone called their nan a horse or some shit.

I like seeing the melee stuff always seems less toxic for some reason, I'd love to see two gangs meet up in a bar get their characters drunk af and have a pool cue fight or something

We've all got to play a character and try not bring ego into it, like is it really good for a gang's progression to start a war because of miniscule things that could be resolved in numerous fun RP ways?

I

 
Immature minds that feel they are entitled to do certain things or act a certain way because they are a gang is the root cause of the problem. For them its about power, control and dominance. They want all 3.

Maybe ultimately its the badge that says they are a gang that's the problem.

The gang allows them to declare war under the guise of the gang and lets them avoid the risk of rdm for a while.

Whatever happens its a tricky one to solve. And it wont happen over night. It requires an attitude adjustment and a culture shift in some of the gangs with leaders providing examples of how to do this differently.

Personally speaking i am not sure id like to log in and clean up other peoples messes in a game but that's me. I don't say this lightly however.

Rap battles. Definitely.

 
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The part of it that grinds my gears is where you big gangs are "allied" and "just helping clean up"

None of that even with RP makes sense to me that gangs are teaming up just because they are friends. There is from what i have seen no benefits to one side helping another in there fight. 

If you want to call it a war then dont involve every man and his nan and get on with it, bash heads and go again. 

The issue from my side as staff is when you see a war with  FOR EXAMPLE Vagos vs Mara then triads jump in on vagos side, coalition/hustlers jump on mara side you all of a sudden go from 50 people fighting to potentially 125 people all bring involved in one situation. I know those numbers are not accurate but you see my point. 

As staff i would love to see all gangs beefing/rping as enemies and not getting on but i think people prioritise friendships over colours. I think wars have to be staged with set rules to STOP the OOC crying which in itself fixes the crying problem but if people RPd there character properly there would be no need for staged wars in the first place. 

 
Charles Vane said:
The issue from my side as staff is when you see a war with  FOR EXAMPLE Vagos vs Mara then triads jump in on vagos side, coalition/hustlers jump on mara side you all of a sudden go from 50 people fighting to potentially 125 people all bring involved in one situation. I know those numbers are not accurate but you see my point. 
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When Vagos beefed mara we weren't involved in the side of hustlers/mara , but we did have a mini fight on mara turf against vagos when we chased them, but I agree with what you mean, id love all gangs to be able separate and have no alliances 

 
"War" as you call it is basically school playground fights played out with a keyboard. It devolves into that level of anarchy and is childish and futile. It is driven by ego and a lack of "respect" (which people fail to appreciate) that needs to be earned, not freely given on demand. There is an entire psychology behind this that isnt worth going into here suffice to say the term is freely used when its just a falling out between two (or more) people. War is just a bruised ego waiting to be salved, often the cause is forgotten by the end of the conflict. 

The amount of tears that flow by the end affect a far wider audience than the original disgruntled party, thats when it becomes a chore. 

Games are meant to be fun, "war" is usually only fun for the winner. Everyone else gets salty AF. 

 
William Antrim said:
"War" as you call it is basically school playground fights played out with a keyboard. It devolves into that level of anarchy and is childish and futile. It is driven by ego and a lack of "respect" (which people fail to appreciate) that needs to be earned, not freely given on demand. There is an entire psychology behind this that isnt worth going into here suffice to say the term is freely used when its just a falling out between two (or more) people. War is just a bruised ego waiting to be salved, often the cause is forgotten by the end of the conflict. 

The amount of tears that flow by the end affect a far wider audience than the original disgruntled party, thats when it becomes a chore. 

Games are meant to be fun, "war" is usually only fun for the winner. Everyone else gets salty AF. 
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I do understand your view point here as from an outsider perspective a war can seem pointless, drawn out and like a game of TDM or domination. That being said it can also be really fun for example the current fights between Grove and Ballas whilst not being classed as a full war do have connotations of such but so far neither side have come to one another to express and dismay or feelings of anger on the situation as it is all in good fun and we are doing what we can to ensure no toxicity is exhibited.

There is Tweedle beef and name calling on Tweedle but that's all said in good fun in character to convey how both sides are opposed I think I speak on behalf of a lot if not all of us when I say I genuinely have no issues with anyone on the opposing sides as characters or as players for example I know two members of Grove who are ex Hustlers who I can still have a civil conversation and a laugh with due to not having an issue with them my character may not agree with their decision to be apart of an opposing side but its their characters choice to make not mine.

Wars can be fun and both parties can enjoy them but we all know a large majority of them do unfortunately turn toxic as egos do come into play and a lot of people forget they are a character and not themselves.

 
What is the benefit of war? There's really none that I can think of. There's no mechanic to expand turf, increase profits etc, so there's no point to be at war.

 
M said:
What is the benefit of war? There's really none that I can think of. There's no mechanic to expand turf, increase profits etc, so there's no point to be at war.
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The point of a war is to prove you wont be stepped on by others and are no push over, I've been in plenty of wars during my gang life in the server. One was about the lack of respect shown to members of the gang which resulted in more respect being shown by our opponents and one not so long ago was to do with how completive the coke market had become not to be the only ones that can sell it but to ensure that we had more than our competitors enabling us to make more profit from it and more customers meaning we would be the biggest coke supplier in the city.

Some wars are petty I will admit it and the outcome is normally a decently large some of money to call of the attacks which is then distributed amongst the gang to ensure you are not lacking in any department.

As I have said in my previous post from an outsider perspective war can seem pointless and maybe some of them are but when your in one its a different story, you fight for your gangs reputation and defending their name regardless of if you win or lose you know you stood up for yourselves. 

 
Ill give you my 2 cents which are personal opinion on the matter.

First of all to me it seems people forget this server is a roleplay one not something to make frag montages on, showing how you shot bunch of other gang members , people seem to look for pointless fights with little justification rp wise, once the war starts theres a lot of drive by shootings with little to no RP and the way theyre currently done during a war theres very little actual roleplay situations (dont get me wrong some people do them and for that I commend them but its definetly a minority in the grand scheme of things.)

The wars are dragged on for to long, dont know why it makes sense to anyone you would go and kill some gang 10+ over, kill them once or a few times make your point take the win and adios or something instead of turning Los Santos into a war zone.

I really enjoyed the time when guns were hard to get and the gangs fought melee fights, that was fun and filled with RP afterwards and before, guns just ruin everything people choose the bullet over talk and its sad to see on a roleplay server, The wars the way they are currently are turning more people into crosshairs on screen shoot first kind of players...

Nothing against a good war dont get me wrong, but not when its over a comment on tweedle saying "your turf smells or something stupid", but first have a good roleplay reason make it enjoyable for BOTH SIDES.

 
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Well well well. People immediately start talking about war and shootouts now that NE3 are on top. 

In all seriousness though, alliances are cringe and well RP'd wars between two groups after building up tension are good and fun. Warring over tweedle beef and small issues is pathetic and highlights your inability as a gang to communicate effectively on tweedle and through RP verbally. We need to do better.

I also agree with the point made about "friendship over colours". Gang should always come first. I do think it's ok to be on good terms with some people, after all, you can't be an arsehole to everyone. You should  just be mindful that you are in a criminal enterprise and you are competing with these other groups. However, don't even get me started on inter-gang marriages/relationships that start huge gang alliances, even soft alliances. 

 
I think I see a pattern with wars in the server. People seems to be able to start a war with amazing RP and during the war everyone tries their best to provide quality RP. The problem starts to come after several days of war, when the same cycle keeps occurring over and over again, turf push / kidnapping / robbing of the opposing gang. The real issue here is : No one knows how to properly end a war, or rather, no one can set aside their ego and take the L.

Everyone sees a new day as a new opportunity. No matter if you lost during a push, or you lost during defending a turf, tomorrow we’ll do better and improve. But this just makes the war last forever. It is now TDM and not Roleplay anymore. If you want “reality”, once a group of people get injured from a gunfight and survive, it would take them days to recover and be able to fight again. But it is a game and you instantly get better with the help of hospital beds/ NHS. 
 

So, how do you end a war ? There are multiple ways to end it, but the only problem right now is people’s egos. No one wants to take the L, no one wants to do a mutual agreement to stop it cause it’s a pussy move. “Why are you ending the war ? They shot at us / they treated us like dog shit / now we look like pussies or we look weak cause we agreed to end it / why are we ending it we have the guns and ammo to last for another week/ we wanna keep fragging them to show who’s boss/ They need to be given a lesson not to mess with us so we’re continuing this war” With this kind of win mentality obviously no war will ever stop. 
 

So to the people who want to start wars and want wars to keep happening. My question is this : Can you end a war ? 

 
@Ravenzzz I can agree with that to a certain extent. Yes gangs never want to back down due to ego's. But in reality, a gang would only ever want to quit if they are severely losing the war. You make good points of at the start of a war, there is genuine good RP and speaking from a Ballas perspective, we have tried to build things up with Grove over time and gradually make it more serious. 

We haven't exactly ended stuff with Grove as we have literal history of always fighting each other and not getting a long for the most part. But since last night, we came to a mutual cease fire. So to answer your question, it's hard to take an 'L' in terms of gang wars tbh. No one wants to quit and that's what makes it interesting. But maybe as you say, there should be some kind of limit and not waring each other for months on end. I believe war should only happen over a series of RP events that give you no other choice such as the constant shit talk/drive byes/kidnapping/robbing etc. It's hard to just answer that if you are not seeing it from a gang POV or have no experience in a gang.

 
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