Weapon Crafting

[ufff]

i like the idea of guns being traceable back to whoever makes them,  that way if a certain person or group made and sold guns too much then it gives a reason for the police to raid them and keep pestering them, or you could use more materials and get it without the serial number or tracing or you have to take the weapons somewhere to get it done for money. 

no i haven't tbh, feels too similar to arma atm with the gun meta so it just put me off playing. 

Which is why I feel like this, or something similar needs to happen. Too many guns, too much hands up or die. 

 

[DJ]

Which is why I feel like this, or something similar needs to happen. Too many guns, too much hands up or die. 

Yeah I agree, the only thing Im against is it being locked behind gangs really, the server is already a gang vs police server or what it feels like, your at such a disadvantage without being in a gang. 

 

[ufff]

Yeah I agree, the only thing Im against is it being locked behind gangs really, the server is already a gang vs police server or what it feels like, your at such a disadvantage without being in a gang. 

You'd be surprised, a lot of 1/2 man groups roaming around doing bits recently. 

 

[Charles Vane]

From the POV of someone that has always been in the centre of the gun trade and the whole RP behind it, ill add my 2 cents. 

So, when it was possible for anyone to craft pistols initially i/we (as lost) were really against it for this exact reason. There was always going to be a point where it was everyones 'go to' and every new comers 'goal'. Which we all know from a RP standpoint is fucking daft. Everyone at the time wanted it and i do get the argument "why do you need to be in a gang to be a gun dealer" which technically you wouldnt. You just would if you want to craft guns.. i think for the average player it just adds another layer of RP of gaining trust of these gangs to get them to sell to them so they can then sell on. 

The changes to crafting and steel and such were a massive help and have limited it slightly because it is a massive chore. This is good. 

I think the idea of changing recipies and stuff isnt so great because your all only thinking about pistols.. if you compare that to bigger things other people might need to make its already a hugeeee amount. 

The people that are saying "locking weapon manufacturing behind gangs would reduce a RP storyline for any other civ" i can assure you. As we have tried so many times to buy pistols in bulk nobody ever wants to do it. Because of how flooded the market has got with pistols and everyone crafting they only do it for there self. Nobody in my whole time here has managed to become a full time arms dealer outside of a gang. Yes, people have made and sold pistols in bulk once or twice but then soon realised the time and the money is not worth it. People selling for 80 - 100k are completely under cutting themselves and thats where the problem began. If you go to mr whites and buy all the resources needed to make a pistol it would cost a minimum of 140k for a standard (rough numbers, we have this all worked out somewhere). So people are selling for near half of thr value and thats just buying the resources. Nobody is valueing the time it takes to mine, drive, smelt, drive and sell and thats the problem. 

Gun crafting should absolutely be locked behind gangs and if a small group want to be arms dealers they should have to gain the trust of a gang and build good relations with them. If the gangs value the time and value of the weapon to sell to someone else to sell to someone else then the price naturally goes up every time. I have said this from day 1. (The firm all know about my ladder speech haha)

As for big guns, trust me. The price is not the issue there.. you see them more because people are so rich. But thats a whole other story. 

I believe no new player should come here and be able to just make a gun.

I believe gangs/organisations should be behind the manufactoring of weapons

I believe gang leaders should be trusted enough to control a sensible price to sell to any tom, dick an harry on the street. If not.. then they probably shouldnt be leading a gang. 

And i believe the problem in the pistols being so normal is the fact that anyone who dont mind a couple of hours of grind will sell for 100k. Thats where it all went wrong. 

 

[JB_]

What about if instead of completely locking it away from everyone you just take the guns off the public benches and turn the gang benches public? They’re all behind closed doors so access can be managed but it still gives the opportunity for people who build a relationship with a gang to be given access to do what they do. Alongside this gangs can agree a minimum sale price on standard pistols to drive the price up and make them less accessible. 

 

[Melondwarf]

I believe no new player should come here and be able to just make a gun.

I believe gangs/organisations should be behind the manufactoring of weapons

I know I'm nitpicking on your post here, but I'm returning to my own post. I don't believe ANYONE wants new players to be able to craft guns, but if long time player wants to go into business for themselves, are we going to force them to either join a gang or make connections with them?
Don't gangs have enough perks without getting a full monopoly on weapons?
From what I'm seeing as NHS, gangs are already out of control with power and doing mostly whatever they want on a daily basis... I barely see any gunshots or stabbings where there is no gang colours involved...

I just think there should be a possibility for players to craft weapons, it just shouldn't be as easy as it is now, and giving gangs exclusive rights just gives them more power than they already have.
Just imagine what will happen to import prices when gangs (who already own quite a few of them) also gets monopoly to put whatever prices they want on guns. You'd lock every other player even harder to fishing/trucking, and the lack of things to do outside gangs is already pretty bad.

 

[Charles Vane]

How do you think the gun trade works at the minute? 

Its a monopoly. Thats exactly why it works, large guns are controlled, expensive and more rare. 

Its not like its only 1 group there are loads of groups that can craft and sell. The fact is to get a gun nobody has to RP currently. Whats the process currently roleplay to get info on how to craft, mine no rp, smelt no rp, craft no rp then we wonder why the roleplay is so shit when it comes to the end result with a gun.. 

Atleast with gangs doing it for the average new comer they have to RP a lot to get the gun.. then they will value it more. 

Also, i did say for anyonr who wanted to be a arms dealer.. yes they should have to go up the ladder and buy from someone who then buys from someone else.. thats just business. Thats how life works. Make relations with gangs and go from there. Its really not that limiting locking crafting behind groups..

 

[JustHamzaPK]

I think the fact the gangs sell guns just for the sake of it with no RP is the problem as well as too many people know about WHERE and How to make guns. This was due to people selling locations and Pistol recipes for fucking 100k or 50k . Also cops should raid people selling guns on Tweddle . I am not sure if removing the gun-crafting from civilians will make things any better as people will still sell to make the cash once they got too many.( Maybe a limit to how many we/each gang can make a month? ). In regards to time -taking  It does take good amount of time to make steel to then craft and make Pistols.

Mining about 45min to an hour and 20 , Smeltery about 35/55 min , Gun crafting it self about 150/30 min. 

I personally think each gang should have a special thing only they can make which will give more interactions.

One more thing to highlight is we all need to play our part to organize things for the city for people to do , at the moment is pretty dead tbh is Either Grind or go kill some cops / fight another gang or sit around doing nothing, If we get more interesting things to do it will take the grind away as people will have fun without Grinding and making guns everyday.

The above it what I think , no personal feelings. 

Hamza

 

[Melondwarf]

Atleast with gangs doing it for the average new comer they have to RP a lot to get the gun.. then they will value it more. 

Also, i did say for anyonr who wanted to be a arms dealer.. yes they should have to go up the ladder and buy from someone who then buys from someone else.. thats just business. Thats how life works. Make relations with gangs and go from there. Its really not that limiting locking crafting behind groups..

In there lies one of my points with the skill based system, not every average newcomer could make guns because it takes a long time to learn how to do it and a failure rate would mean it would be a waste to do if you're not thinking long-term. 
The trouble I have with making it Gang locked is that gangs already seem to have a lot of power and control, and you're asking to give them more.
There are gang shootings all the time, every night...and you're asking that gangs should be the ones that have the guns? They would literally control all crime in the city, every crime RP would HAVE to go through gangs with no exceptions unless you want to go full on melee...

The only people that would benefit at the end of the day is gangs getting a bigger share of the money passing through the city

 

[JB_]

I think the point everyone is missing who is against locking it behind gangs saying gangs will have too much power is… the gangs are supposed to have the power. They are the cartels, the mafias etc. Everyone else are CIVS. It’s GTA RP so obviously everyone wants to get a gun to do illegal shit but that’s not the intention of a British themed serious RP server. Guns shouldn’t be the norm at all but right now any old baldy can get a gun and troll people within a few hours. 

 

[DJ]

I think the point everyone is missing who is against locking it behind gangs saying gangs will have too much power is… the gangs are supposed to have the power. They are the cartels, the mafias etc. Everyone else are CIVS. It’s GTA RP so obviously everyone wants to get a gun to do illegal shit but that’s not the intention of a British themed serious RP server. Guns shouldn’t be the norm at all but right now any old baldy can get a gun and troll people within a few hours. 

if your going down that route though no one in a turf gang should own a legit business.....  but that would annoy too many people and upset the balance.

 

[JB_]

if your going down that route though no one in a turf gang should own a legit business.....  but that would annoy too many people and upset the balance.

That’s an entirely different suggestion and discussion and not even related. 

 

[Melondwarf]

the gangs are supposed to have the power. They are the cartels, the mafias etc. 

Funny, and here I thought gangs and mafia tend to try and fly under the governments radar, operating through deception and corruption, using shell companies to keep their actual activities from being investigated by the police/government instead of starting massive outright wars with the police.

It seems like everyone dances around the whole "make it so that not everyone can craft guns with ease, but don't lock it entirely to gangs" and instead skip the key parts of making it more difficult, but rather just straight up taking it away from anyone but the gangs. 

Believe it or not, gangs ordinarily don't create weapons, they steal them/buy them off shady people and sell them on for profit.
ie an entirely stand alone manufacturing faction/gang to keep the existing gangs from controlling every single thing in the city.
Want to get drugs? You have to go through gangs
Want to buy a sandwich? Gangs own shops (though not all of them obviously)
Want to get a gun? Gangs make the guns
Want to play as police? The gangs will shoot you for pulling them over for speeding
Want to play NHS? The gangs will either tell you to go away, or start chasing ambulances around and ditching shot up members at your feet demanding that you treat them.

 

[TinyBigJacko]

Can I say something very simple but rather overlooked? At the moment, the only things that can be produced with matrials from the mine are.. Guns, bullets and lockpicks.. If there were more 'legal' items that we could craft, such as repairkits, tools. ANY other use for steel would drive up the prices of guns. Alternativley, guns could be 'maintained' meaning you'd need to use further resources from the mine to keep your gun in working condition.

Locking guns behind Lost, Ballas etc won't fix anything imho.

On our list of dreams, tbh. I want 'decay' to be a thing with certain items, particularly weapons, and maintenance to be a counter to that. And as for more 'legal' items, yes, I agree. Question is, what, and what systems they will end up creating as a result. Things need to have a purpose or they are just window-dressing, and the minmaxers won't go for them, so they don't slow down the 'get-me-a-gun' crowd unless there is a good reason for them to craft these things. I'd love to see 'fake number-plates' being a craftable thing (at least for certain factions) but that involves a shit-ton of backend rethinking, but again, it's on our dream list.

First on my dream list though is "make a day have 48 hours" so we have time to do it all!

 

[FragstarGames]

Funny, and here I thought gangs and mafia tend to try and fly under the governments radar, operating through deception and corruption, using shell companies to keep their actual activities from being investigated by the police/government instead of starting massive outright wars with the police.

It seems like everyone dances around the whole "make it so that not everyone can craft guns with ease, but don't lock it entirely to gangs" and instead skip the key parts of making it more difficult, but rather just straight up taking it away from anyone but the gangs. 

Believe it or not, gangs ordinarily don't create weapons, they steal them/buy them off shady people and sell them on for profit.
ie an entirely stand alone manufacturing faction/gang to keep the existing gangs from controlling every single thing in the city.
Want to get drugs? You have to go through gangs
Want to buy a sandwich? Gangs own shops (though not all of them obviously)
Want to get a gun? Gangs make the guns
Want to play as police? The gangs will shoot you for pulling them over for speeding
Want to play NHS? The gangs will either tell you to go away, or start chasing ambulances around and ditching shot up members at your feet demanding that you treat them.

Couldnt of said it better tbh! Gangs do have the majority of everything when realisticaly thats not how it is. I mean the police vs gangs as it is is just ridiculous at the minute i mean no one seems to fear the police at all because punishments are just not as severe as they should be hence why people dont see police as a threat but thats a whole other story but what you have listed is true imo

 

[Colin Forester]

How do you think the gun trade works at the minute? 

Its a monopoly. Thats exactly why it works, large guns are controlled, expensive and more rare. 

Its not like its only 1 group there are loads of groups that can craft and sell. The fact is to get a gun nobody has to RP currently. Whats the process currently roleplay to get info on how to craft, mine no rp, smelt no rp, craft no rp then we wonder why the roleplay is so shit when it comes to the end result with a gun.. 

Atleast with gangs doing it for the average new comer they have to RP a lot to get the gun.. then they will value it more. 

Also, i did say for anyonr who wanted to be a arms dealer.. yes they should have to go up the ladder and buy from someone who then buys from someone else.. thats just business. Thats how life works. Make relations with gangs and go from there. Its really not that limiting locking crafting behind groups..

Completely agree. I think people are forgetting that civ arms dealers act like a middle man buying them off the groups who have the means and them selling them on to others further down the chain.

People forget these civ gun dealers have a duty to provide high quality rp while doing so. If you are really invested in becoming an arms dealer/war dog middle man you need to create a good "buyers experience" and backstop of your character.

Too many times people just stand on a street corner and are like you have the money sweet here it is and then they just walk off like they finished a weekly shop at tesco.

But I agree something needs to be done about it weather that is increased recipie cost for civs and gangs can make em with fewer resources but removing them completely takes away that possibility for small groups to experience that side of rp in the city.

Just my opinion

 

[ufff]

On our list of dreams, tbh. I want 'decay' to be a thing with certain items, particularly weapons, and maintenance to be a counter to that. And as for more 'legal' items, yes, I agree. Question is, what, and what systems they will end up creating as a result. Things need to have a purpose or they are just window-dressing, and the minmaxers won't go for them, so they don't slow down the 'get-me-a-gun' crowd unless there is a good reason for them to craft these things. I'd love to see 'fake number-plates' being a craftable thing (at least for certain factions) but that involves a shit-ton of backend rethinking, but again, it's on our dream list.

First on my dream list though is "make a day have 48 hours" so we have time to do it all!

Fake plates, How one can dream

Funny, and here I thought gangs and mafia tend to try and fly under the governments radar, operating through deception and corruption, using shell companies to keep their actual activities from being investigated by the police/government instead of starting massive outright wars with the police.

It seems like everyone dances around the whole "make it so that not everyone can craft guns with ease, but don't lock it entirely to gangs" and instead skip the key parts of making it more difficult, but rather just straight up taking it away from anyone but the gangs. 

Believe it or not, gangs ordinarily don't create weapons, they steal them/buy them off shady people and sell them on for profit.
ie an entirely stand alone manufacturing faction/gang to keep the existing gangs from controlling every single thing in the city.
Want to get drugs? You have to go through gangs
Want to buy a sandwich? Gangs own shops (though not all of them obviously)
Want to get a gun? Gangs make the guns
Want to play as police? The gangs will shoot you for pulling them over for speeding
Want to play NHS? The gangs will either tell you to go away, or start chasing ambulances around and ditching shot up members at your feet demanding that you treat them.

If they're doing any of what you've said you have the means to stop that happening with player reports. Low Quality RP is not what we're looking for & gangs out of everyone should be held to the STRICT RP that we expect. Report them if they're shooting you for pulling them over. But, cops also have to stop acting lick cock ends and needing to win all of the time, anyway, that's another suggestion not for this one. 

 

[DrewK]

Not me personally just from what I've seen lately I haven't experienced it but

Ide just like to mention aswell that alot of the issues is gang related / gang members being out of colours and robbing people....  Which I guess is part of the game and there isn't alot else to do in terms of criminal stuff but this needs to be acknowledged as I know and see it all the time. Especially just as of late with the fishing etc etc in the reports to me camping a location is power gaming there is literally no way any one else can react in time or even stand a chance really...

The problem with the whole thing is not the easy access to guns it's peoples perception on RP like regardless if ur a gang member or not like if someones giving u shit don't just go straight to killing them weigh the situation up. Aswell ur gangs in a war so hostile rp is going on yet your rolling out of colours to Rob civilians like meh... The excuse is there charector is like that... Nah that doesn't mean you can just initiate and kill some one Whoose told u to fuck off or shut up like...    

In order to implement a change that does unbalance a server in my opinion there needs to be ways to make legal money or something only "Civs" can offer gangs...   

For example if ur in a gang you shouldn't be able to have the best of both worlds forcing gangs and civs to help each other out and pursue opportunity's. Creating a better place and experience for every one so like an example could be like if your in a gang you shouldn't be able to do mechanics that way. Maybe this would produce more interest in people actually doing the call outs or rping that way...  But again the money is shit and doesn't appeal to the core of the player base who wants guns an money. 

 

[JB_]

I also think drugs should be re worked price wise as currently Coke is still worth the money and the rest aren't worth doing even though they require more work. You could hire civs to gather these kinds of things as a way of proving themselves.

A totally crazy idea that will probably get shot down completely, remove all standards and standard pistol parts from gang benches and only allow gang engraved pistols. Then change the recipe and increase the difficulty but leave them on the public bench. This might force gangs into selling engraved pistols which obviously would require more RP and caution as they are traceable by colour.

 

[Kate Anderson]

Although I'm pretty new to the city, I think I can also comment this on that level, that I started not with the purpose oh grind money get a gun. But what I can tell now (after 3 weeks), every new player asks himself: How do I get money. The legal options are really limited and you will find yourself not much later in that chain: Food Delivery -> Mechanic/Taxi/delivery-> hired or seek out to make more money, bc appartments or nice cars are very expensive and with grinding taxi/mechanic its not going to happen. That hiring is most likely drugs. With drugs come involvement in gang turf comes around the corner and not much further you will think about being able to defending yourself. 

How can you break up that chain? Offering more or more divers legal options and make RP more valuable. There are the idealists that join NHS/Police, that gives you a solid foundation to do RP. But aside from gangs and NHS/Police there is not much you would find yourself in with the feeling: Yeah I like to login again to RP my life as ... yes as what? Mechanic, doing the same job for hours, to get really limited money. Probably not currently, since you have no interaction at all with other players, aside maybe a call or the clusterfuck happening at impound lot after storm. 

What does this have to do with guns? Well my approach is the foundation currently. The hard part is to catch a new player and offer him/her something valuable that is interesting and keeps him/her coming back and interact with the city. As someone said before, currently it feels a bit like the server is a police/gang server, a bit pointed, but yes a bit like that, it is.

If only gangs can sell guns or not or produce them or what not is changing the topping of the cake and not how it tastes.