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UNMC/COP Deals? (Discussion)

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PeachMaster

PeachMaster

Destroyer of Apples
Location
Sweden
First things first, keep it civil, no god damm arguments, just your views on the matter at hand.

Due to couple of "small" incidents involving  a lot of gunfights the police has realised they are now able to "hire" UNMC in their times of need.... as in, they are working together as a professional force making all other small rebel group instantly surrender or get slaughtered outright, 

It's fine if it's something special or the backstory is amazing but simple gunfights? Cmon.. 

It's a tactical move sure but it's getting annoying...

Example: Hostage OP, we demand 5 berries and 5 vests, negotiator: NO CAN DO negotiations are off, shots fired, 5 min later oh look here comes the big brother and their snipers  and ifrits.. so this negotiator decided to fight us knowing that we are about to be slaughtered by the UNMC... and what did he sacrifice? a single cop... 

One day you see police fight the UNMC and accusing them of terrorism and such and the very next day they are best friends? 

I have spoken to the generals and from their point of view it makes sense, huge amount of reward is given if the UNMC takes the fight to us instead of them... if its in their interest they will intervene in civilians businesses...

But here is the loophole!

They can constantly keep offering UNMC huge amounts of money or other inner circle things that we do not know as in turn a blind eye to crimes or what ever... while they sit in their  cars and take it easy...

So what's the polices idea on this? One day your fighting them, next friends, next your throwing them in prison etc? 

If i remember correctly police are in no conditions at all to NEVER EVER work with rebels.. has this changed? You might as well merge if this keeps increasing. 

Whats the backstory? I can understand that you are currently undermanned but still...

 
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This literally makes no  sense

Why the hell would what's considered terroists by the government work together with them and (sorry for adding this in nobody is to comment on it) not let the police hire a PSC? Like this is getting stupid, why is this considered ok?

this is only my opinion.

 
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Personally I'd be extremely wary of 'paying' the UNMC.. Sure if here a rebel gang and the UNMC had beef with them and wanted to deal with them I'd stand down if I didn't have the man power or the roleplay advantage. Then just go and get the remainders if any. Tactical as you said yes, right thing to do? No. The orientation of people is gunfight=win. Roleplay? Not so much. It's hard to find a neutral solution when there's keyboard warriors surrounding you, on all sides (even your own).

I also don't see how the backstory of the UNMC helping the cops is plausible, unless the cop is sympathetic for the cause and all that...  Very strange IMO...

As a DI, I don't think I'd allow my colleagues to work with them to take out a rebel group, it sets a poor example to lower ranks and newer officers..

 
I don't think I've ever worked WITH the police, but I'm certainly not hostile to them. I do have friends in the police, but I also don't work WITH them. 

That being said, didn't the Rebel groups all band together at one point? That's bad for the Police and UNMC, so why don't we occasionally band together to deal with our common enemy? 

 
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from my point of view its very rare we get asked to assist the police in there incidents but the times we do it is always in the best interests of the unmc , for example being in the unmc is terrible for your bank balance as we are limited to the time we can make money and with alot of rebel attacks the need to re gear is often and expensive so if the chance to make a nice 20 million in lost gold for the heads of a few rebels is whats on offer then who are we to refuse ?

 
When we said we get incentives we never meant we get paid money. They turn a blind eye to us stealing the gold from rebels because in the end the rebel gangs are the ones using the gold to fight the cops. We aren't. So it makes sense for them to let us take it instead if they can't stop it themselves. Today for the first time we were asked in on a hostage op, it was a mess and it won't happen again.

Our loyalty is to ourselves and ourselves alone. If the police are willing to turning a blind eye to us stealing rebels gold, or let us use our guns and ifritts to destroy enemy factions and gangs, we are happy to accept. We stay out of their way, we don't rob the bank, we don't do massive drug convoys, we don't do roadblocks, we don't kidnap cops. Can you see how we are more inclined to be lenient and co-operate with cops?

If you read our background story it clearly says we are not here to use violence to impose our will upon others, such as the Altis Government. We will show them our ways are better in different ways. When we are confronted, we fight back. We will do so with police as much as with rebels. But police, in general, are smart enough to realise that if the UNMC is willing to co-exist, that benefits us all.

Mistakes were made tonight and lessons will be learned. Hostage situations are not for us to step in to and unless the circumstances call for a exception, we will not step in anymore.

 
As a rebel who finds "questionable" activities fun, the UNMC turning up really kills the mood. Tense hostage situations turn into "lol 10 ifrits turned up wonder how that happened."

Cops shouldn't work with rebels and vice versa. Just my 0.02

 
Maskedrussian said:
As a rebel who finds "questionable" activities fun, the UNMC turning up really kills the mood. Tense hostage situations turn into "lol 10 ifrits turned up wonder how that happened."

Cops shouldn't work with rebels and vice versa. Just my 0.02
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I just heard there were 8 hostages taken from cop side today and 3 of which at the same time. I mean, I can imagine them needing a hand. I'm just not feeling comfortable helping out with those, it's too much of a mess with 3 sides there. So as I said, we will have to let those slip.

 
Khandamir said:
I just heard there were 8 hostages taken from cop side today and 3 of which at the same time. I mean, I can imagine them needing a hand. I'm just not feeling comfortable helping out with those, it's too much of a mess with 3 sides there. So as I said, we will have to let those slip.
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I just think cops need to be more careful in general. Not sure which cop it was, but I have had 2 officers in a standered cop car trying to pull over my ifrit with 4 heavily armed rebels. One even tried to shoot out the tires with rubber bullets. Luckily for them we were on our way to a gang meeting so we didn't take them hostage. 

 
As i private of the UNMC i can say we do not work with the police. We just have an agreement in which we don't fuck with each other. This is because we both don't want pointless gunfights occurring between the police. Police still treat us like rebels , an example of this would be them taking away our guns if we are in the queens land. At times the police have asked for help. This is due to a gang having a 3 hour and 20 minute gun fight with the cops and they just did not have the man power or the numbers. They were just getting destroyed and it was unfair on them as they were unable to have any high quality RP as they had to keep responding to gun fights and bank ops.

 
Without me writing out an essay explaining the whole reasoning behind this and when it started, just read Khandamir's comment above.

Khandamir said:
When we said we get incentives we never meant we get paid money. They turn a blind eye to us stealing the gold from rebels because in the end the rebel gangs are the ones using the gold to fight the cops. We aren't. So it makes sense for them to let us take it instead if they can't stop it themselves. Today for the first time we were asked in on a hostage op, it was a mess and it won't happen again.

Our loyalty is to ourselves and ourselves alone. If the police are willing to turning a blind eye to us stealing rebels gold, or let us use our guns and ifritts to destroy enemy factions and gangs, we are happy to accept. We stay out of their way, we don't rob the bank, we don't do massive drug convoys, we don't do roadblocks, we don't kidnap cops. Can you see how we are more inclined to be lenient and co-operate with cops?

If you read our background story it clearly says we are not here to use violence to impose our will upon others, such as the Altis Government. We will show them our ways are better in different ways. When we are confronted, we fight back. We will do so with police as much as with rebels. But police, in general, are smart enough to realise that if the UNMC is willing to co-exist, that benefits us all.

Mistakes were made tonight and lessons will be learned. Hostage situations are not for us to step in to and unless the circumstances call for a exception, we will not step in anymore.
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Also to add to this, @Zippey mentioned the fact that

Zippey said:
One day you see police fight the UNMC and accusing them of terrorism and such and the very next day they are best friends? 
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yet, we haven't had aggression towards the police in weeks for a reason. In the earlier days, we robbed the HM Treasury twice, on both occasions the gunfights lasted a long time and the police suffered a huge loss of life, same with our drug runs, we had a 3 hour long gunfight with the police force when all we wanted to do was leave, you see in that 3 hours the police could have been away stopping crime, other drug runners or helping people. Protecting and serving per say but instead they were taken away from their "normal" jobs because we were doing stuff against the police.

Our generals were then confronted, rightfully by the police and an agreement was made. It was in the best interest of both factions to stay out of eachothers way, therefore, we don't rob the treasury, we don't target officers, we don't do drug runs unless there roleplayed and we sure as hell don't have a gunfight for the whole restart with them.

You also mentioned that the police can call us on, that's untrue, it has happened in total twice and one of those was todays mission which was just a clusterfuck and the other time was weeks back when a certain gang that is now gone spent the whole day, through every restart fighting police, making the polices life hell, we were then called in just to help clear the rebel problem.

I hope what I have wrote has cleared things up a small bit and I see where you are coming from but try see it from our side aswell.

Linking @ and @Spunky Bumlove just in case the police want an input.

 
Its not really an issue of  being friends I don't think. However when mutual interest align the police tend to overlook what would normally be punished by "hands up" for a normal rebel gang e.g. when the police just watch the  UNMC kill rebels and don't bat a eye providing it helps them and don't really intervene. With that being said i don't see it being any different to two rebel gangs fighting at drug dealer and the police waiting a bit before making a move. Although  the police never seem to make moves on the UNMC in these situations for some reason in my rather limited experience with them.

 
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Khandamir said:
When we said we get incentives we never meant we get paid money. They turn a blind eye to us stealing the gold from rebels because in the end the rebel gangs are the ones using the gold to fight the cops. We aren't. So it makes sense for them to let us take it instead if they can't stop it themselves. Today for the first time we were asked in on a hostage op, it was a mess and it won't happen again.

Our loyalty is to ourselves and ourselves alone. If the police are willing to turning a blind eye to us stealing rebels gold, or let us use our guns and ifritts to destroy enemy factions and gangs, we are happy to accept. We stay out of their way, we don't rob the bank, we don't do massive drug convoys, we don't do roadblocks, we don't kidnap cops. Can you see how we are more inclined to be lenient and co-operate with cops?

If you read our background story it clearly says we are not here to use violence to impose our will upon others, such as the Altis Government. We will show them our ways are better in different ways. When we are confronted, we fight back. We will do so with police as much as with rebels. But police, in general, are smart enough to realise that if the UNMC is willing to co-exist, that benefits us all.

Mistakes were made tonight and lessons will be learned. Hostage situations are not for us to step in to and unless the circumstances call for a exception, we will not step in anymore.
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Best answer so far, thanks a lot Khandy.

 
(Reasoning/explanation to why UNMC help is occasionally required/used)

Regardless of this situation which you seem to be unhappy about, I would like to make a point. 

As many of you know, many police officers have recently resigned from the Police; and joined/created rebels gangs; creating extra pressure on an already undermanned police force (most were higher ranks DSGT+). 

The Police are practically forced to work with UNMC in some instances where the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mindset comes in, especially as the Police would obviously rather work with another whitelisted faction in an operation rather than an ordinary rebel gang (more trust). Also you mentioned the Police are not allowed to work with rebels whatsoever? I'm afraid you were either misinformed, or are just not aware of Police rules as it states in the Altis Police Handbook V.2 Page 39 under section 7 of the handbook;

"Rebel Groups (Rule)

You are not permitted to work with any rebel group without the authorisation of a SI+, if granted once it does not give you permission to work with them in the future, authorisation needs to be granted on each occasion."

From what I've been hearing the situation that seems to have triggered the making of this post is quite similar to many situations I've been in, and witnessed quite often, with one instance where UNMC were authorised to come and assist the Police Force. 

Many rebel gangs such as (I'm sorry, but I will not refrain from naming gangs as I usually do because it has to stop!) LOV, PLF, rM (no longer there I believe), etc.. Tend to either take several officers hostage at a time providing poor quality RP to the negotiator by demanding 15 carrier rigs (really happened before for two PC's!), but there are times quite similar to what seems to have happened today where either one or several gangs take a total of 8-10+ police hostages at a time with intent of killing them with giving ridiculous demands such as insane amounts of carrier rigs, or what has even happened once a rebel gang asked for a Ghost Hawk, which are all obviously things that are never going to happen. Police's hands are tied in such situations where it's all up to a few officers because the rest of the cop force is taken hostage by rebel gangs with 6.5-7.62 caliber rifles while the majority of the active cop force at best will have a 5.56 suppressed with a RCO scope..... ON TOP OF THAT, I would like to also add rebel gangs also like to take advantage of such situations by robbing the HM while the majority of the cop force is taken hostage by rebels, so the remaining units of the Police are threatened to be taken hostage; or forced to split up into 2 officers per situation against 5-8+ rebels. With all honesty, it's becoming quite ridiculous and is no fun for officers when we are constantly baited into gunfights every 5 minutes (don't get me wrong, gunfights can be fun; when they're not every 15 mins with the same gang.)  It is ridiculous! You want gunfights? Then go ahead fight other rebels; don't waste our time every 5 mins taking advantage of the fact most are armed with 5.56 which isn't a problem as it is an RP server. In such instances; it is absolutely necessary to ask for UNMC's assistance; which is well rewarded by leaving them with the gold of the HM; or whatever. 

Police Constable Mikeoneill 

 

 
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I think Khandamir and a few of the others covered it nicely. As stated above police have actively worked with UNMC a total of two times, the second being tonight. It is no big secret that the police are often undermanned, being that we are requested to split among three servers where others are not, as well as various other factors. Our rules and regulations have also played a part in the police's current state of castration (for want of a better word), an issue which is being looked into by command at this time.

I could type paragraphs upon paragraphs on the various issues facing the police and the factors that are causing them, instead I'll say this;

Our job is to police the island and stop crimes being commited, the majority of which are violent gun related crimes.

Sometimes we find ourselves without the tools or manpower to bring large criminal groups to justice.

Us working with the UNMC is simply a case of doing what it takes to get our job done.

 
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