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The State of Roleplay and “Initiations”

LastNickLeft said:
@Dredd the Destroyer I absolutely agree with what you are saying, but I believe that sometimes officers should give a bit more chance to roleplay with them rather than just do their thing because they already checked you on a PNC and want you to slip, make a mistake and get caught on it. Sometimes I feel like I’m being creative, make it fun for them, roleplay for a while and then I get the same treatment as if I was just hostile and refusing to talk. 

It’s not just a police problem, if people learned that you don’t always have to win, you don’t always have to be right and accept the fact that sometimes you really just die or loose your weapon it would be a much more enjoyable environment for everyone.

People also complain a lot about “Stop or you will be tased”... well if you are running away from the police what else are meant to say? “Please sir stop running from me to that alleyway or I will be forced to use my power as a police officer and use non lethal force to stop you escaping, and if you pose any threat to me or my officers we will have to defend ourselves with lethal force”... that just doesn’t work. If you are trying to run away and get away from the police accept the fact that they will try to stop you as soon as possible.. which is absolutely normal and relatable to real life. 
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Good point man +1

 
Thanks for the clarification its seems to be needed for new players, I am back after a long time not playing and it seems the RP level is decreased from what I was used to...
Hope its will rise with the time.

 
I totally zigzag, when taking fire you are encouraged to zigzag, duck and cover. Running in a straight line is dumb as hell. 

 
How creative do you expect a simple robbery to go? It does not feel like staff want us to give high quality role play, but to instead, say anything but "Hands up or die". As long as we saying anything but that, it seems to be fine. 

For example:

If i am initiating on someone robbing them or taking them hostage, the main role play begins when the victims agrees to surrender, you don't sit there explaining the reasons to why you are robbing someone in the middle of an open road. Once the victim agrees to surrender or you take them by force then you should engage in high quality role play. The fun and role play begins when they are in your hands. If they decide to pull a gun once you have initiated then that is their choice and they have signed their own death warrant. 

You can really only rob someone  or take someone hostage by saying "Put your hands up pal this is a robbery" or "Mate, throw them hands above your head your coming with me", going up to someone nicely and asking them politely does not work. Some form of initiation has to be made because 1. It scares them 2. Realism, the situation should be intense and startling if you want it to be. 

I feel like staff are getting too involved in role play to the point it is becoming forceful. When i first started here role play was happening, it always has, The more rules and changing of the rules the more confusion there is and the less fun it will be. What i am mainly trying to say in simple is the staff should deal with the rule breakers, and in turn let roleplayers do their thing. I don't understand how staff make it sound so sophisticated to make such a simple initiation, and the thing that is the worst is that all staff have a different interpretation of the rules making it hard for a "set in stone" version to be made. 

Personally when i take someone hostage or rob them (I rarely rob) i like to let them know what is happening as shown in examples above, this gives them the time to react, they have 2 options, surrender or have force used upon you wherever that be you being shot, or you being smacked over the head.

Anyways im just airing my views, not targeting staff, if you could clarify and analyse what i've said that'd be great. Also please be constructive about what i've said, i know some staff like to jump down peoples throats.

 
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@Jayray Holder I don't understand, this change of view has done the opposite of what you're claiming. This removes all the unwritten rules regarding when you can and cannot shoot someone, it means you need to roleplay more before you can shoot someone. We want to encourage roleplay, we don't want people shooting at the first opportunity, we don't want people searching for any reason to shoot someone. The rule is very clear, that has not changed yet instead we've made it simple and removed any unwritten interpretations that were different between staff members based on opinion. 

We want people to step up their roleplay, give more than the minimum and we felt it needed a poke in the right direction. This rule ensures you always give and recieve roleplay before you kill someone. If you feel you can't rob someone without the opening line of "Put your hands up" then I feel you need to broaden your horizons, tell them who you are, why you want their stuff, what your group stands for and believes in etc etc etc etc. I mean feel free to open with that line but know you can't kill the chap without good roleplay that follows it. 

 
Jayray Holder said:
How creative do you expect a simple robbery to go? It does not feel like staff want us to give high quality role play, but to instead, say anything but "Hands up or die". As long as we saying anything but that, it seems to be fine. 

For example:

If i am initiating on someone robbing them or taking them hostage, the main role play begins when the victims agrees to surrender, you don't sit there explaining the reasons to why you are robbing someone in the middle of an open road. Once the victim agrees to surrender or you take them by force then you should engage in high quality role play. The fun and role play begins when they are in your hands. If they decide to pull a gun once you have initiated then that is their choice and they have signed their own death warrant. 

You can really only rob someone  or take someone hostage by saying "Put your hands up pal this is a robbery" or "Mate, throw them hands above your head your coming with me", going up to someone nicely and asking them politely does not work. Some form of initiation has to be made because 1. It scares them 2. Realism, the situation should be intense and startling if you want it to be. 

I feel like staff are getting too involved in role play to the point it is becoming forceful. When i first started here role play was happening, it always has, The more rules and changing of the rules the more confusion there is and the less fun it will be. What i am mainly trying to say in simple is the staff should deal with the rule breakers, and in turn let roleplayers do their thing. I don't understand how staff make it sound so sophisticated to make such a simple initiation, and the thing that is the worst is that all staff have a different interpretation of the rules making it hard for a "set in stone" version to be made. 

Personally when i take someone hostage or rob them (I rarely rob) i like to let them know what is happening as shown in examples above, this gives them the time to react, they have 2 options, surrender or have force used upon you wherever that be you being shot, or you being smacked over the head.

Anyways im just airing my views, not targeting staff, if you could clarify and analyse what i've said that'd be great. Also please be constructive about what i've said, i know some staff like to jump down peoples throats.
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We don’t intend to control how people roleplay or to take away the freedom of role playing certain scenarios.

We want to get away from almost all robberies having the first phrase of “hands on to of your head”  more detail in the run up to the situation, yaknow like deceiving the person into thinking that you’re their friend, turning around and then thinking ‘actually I’m not going to rob him’ but continuing on the little thing you’ve got going with the player. Sure the character you are might be part of some big gang that wants to be renown for robbing, but that really can’t be that fun always saying the same thing and getting the same outcome in the same outlined situation, jump it around more and make it more in depth.

Broaden the roleplay from the quick 2 minute robbery’s which really aren’t the funnest for either party (more so for the poor sod that has spent 30-60 minutes collecting the goods you’re stealing) or even the guy that the police is detaining. Avoid going immediately for the withdrawal of the weapon in every scenario; police, UNMC and rebel alike. If the other player really doesn’t want to go down the peaceful routes even though you’ve tried all sorts of negotiation with them, then so be it; shoot them.

As I said, the quick robbery’s can still happen, provided that they still show the actual CARE for the roleplay that the longer ones do. Roleplay the situation in a FUN way once their hands are on their head, make them chat shit, sing, play a game of life or death, give them a chance to keep X amount of their shit before taking it (applies to cops too)

as @TCK Matt said, we also want to remove these unwritten player made rules that are based on opinion. They sweep through the server from one situation and move on to become server wide misconceptions of what a player or a staff member intended to say.

If you or anyone else can think of a better way for us to approach this, then put up a suggestion post or say it to a staff member to bring up at a staff meeting. We (staff) arent here to model the server into what WE as people want, we’re here to make it into what the COMMUNITY wants. If it turns out all the community wants are one phrase situations that always lead to one shit outcome, then I honestly don’t know what to do.

 
@Samatlewis @TCK Matt 

I understand what you guys are saying completely and agree. Role play should be fun for bother victim and suspect. But sometimes the situation won't always be fun. For example when I throw someone in UNMC the victim will a lot of the time refuse to role play and become a salt flat. How are you supposed to rp this?  Also using robberies as a primary example due to the vast majority of gangs doing it.  

But no matter how well or in depth you rp the robbery the victim is still losing out on his or hers hard work. The issue is if I hold someone up and they the  pull out a gun, they have made their choice,  so if they are then shot then the can't scream "wah bad rp". Sammat made a good rp scenario abput luring to rob someone, and this is good, but not everyone wants to do this, albeit I will be stealing this scenario from you ;).

We need to think realistically from both sides.

The robber wants the assets of the victim, he is willing to use force to get what he wants. The victim wants to protect his assets and had spent a lot of time earning what he has, he is willing to fight. I want to go back to before where if you are initiated on you are able to fire, but maybe an exception to this would be if you are initiated on you must try rp by Saying "I won't comply" etc. 

Something important is we look at it from at player perspective and not a staff perspective. And also if you want better role play why don't you add in 3 to 1 ratios to civilian life? Would that nor make for more value of life? When cops surrender it allows us to give them good roleplay  (speaking from myself)

 
_Jesse_ said:
I dont mind having a little convo and some longer rp to initiate, but as a cop whenever i approach anyone they usually just run away or continue selling their stuff or proccessing... how would you say handle that? Cuz it makes it hard to rp with people who do that.
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Sorry forgot you was a cop Ex INS Vlad Vodka [AR] 

 
I personally hate gunfights as I am one of the first to go down lol.

What about situations where cops talk over each other?

 
I personally also think that victims should be able to 'roleplay it out'. Whenever me and my mates are planning on robbing someone we ofcourse come in and tell them our demands and what would happen if they don't comply. After that we ask them what they're doing at this location, why they are doing it and some other commen questions. If the victim(s) answer the questions nicely and we have a nice conversation we change our minds (usually taxing them for 50k, or doing nothing at all). When we rob our goal is not to make profit. We deal drugs for that. When we rob we do it to get some interaction and show players that not all robbers are douchebags. 

When do we shoot? Almost never at the target unless they shoot at us. We mostly shoot at their tires because we don't want them to get away. 

 
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TCK Matt said:
We will not give a black and white definition of when you can shoot someone, you need to ensure you engage in roleplay of a high quality before you shoot someone. Nor will we give you an example of the minimum.
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The "Black and white" part is what is confusing people. 

High quality roleplay is questionable to the person receiving the roleplay. I can be giving my best but it may not be good enough.

Black and white areas cause confusion that gets people banned, having something set in stone is easier for people to follow.

For example players have been banned for the following

"Put your hands on your head now" *While he points a gun at said person", when the victim shoots he gets banned, even though he was initiated on, that is really dumb in my opinion, why does it have to be the person being initiated on to give good rp? (Evidence can be provided from past reports/bans etc)

 
Jayray Holder said:
The "Black and white" part is what is confusing people. 

High quality roleplay is questionable to the person receiving the roleplay. I can be giving my best but it may not be good enough.

Black and white areas cause confusion that gets people banned, having something set in stone is easier for people to follow.

For example players have been banned for the following

"Put your hands on your head now" *While he points a gun at said person", when the victim shoots he gets banned, even though he was initiated on, that is really dumb in my opinion, why does it have to be the person being initiated on to give good rp? (Evidence can be provided from past reports/bans etc)
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We got to the point where every time someone mentioned shooting the other person they'd turn around and kill them without saying a word. It isn't good RP and we expect better. Of course the 'victim' should have to roleplay back, tell the attacker to sod off because you're head of the Altis Duck Farmers society and don't take orders from anyone.... etc etc and actually make an interesting and tense roleplay situation. If we say "you can only shoot someone when you do X, Y and Z" you will only ever get roleplay in the form of X, Y and Z (boring).

 
TCK Matt said:
We got to the point where every time someone mentioned shooting the other person they'd turn around and kill them without saying a word. It isn't good RP and we expect better. Of course the 'victim' should have to roleplay back, tell the attacker to sod off because you're head of the Altis Duck Farmers society and don't take orders from anyone.... etc etc and actually make an interesting and tense roleplay situation. If we say "you can only shoot someone when you do X, Y and Z" you will only ever get roleplay in the form of X, Y and Z (boring).
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"Put your hands on your head"

"No, i am head of the altis duck farmers, We will defend ourselves if you try to kill us"

BANG BANG BANG BANG, it forces the victim to force the initiation to defend himself. 

 
Dredd the Destroyer said:
There is another perfectly viable option to 'counter initiating'. You can accept that you've been caught and do your best to make the most of the time leading up to being dropped off at the prison, or talk about how you've learned from your mistakes, or about how you feel awful about all the bad things you've done.

In my time in the police, I've seen hundreds of situations end in a small ticket and a gun being taken because the perp has offered a civil, engaging conversation rather than immediately alerting officers to he presence of 'friends in the area'. 

This new way of looking at situations, I hope, will take the state of the layer base on this server back to how it was when I first found it, back when people didn't get all fired up and threaten to post complaints or reports each and every time they were shot.
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Well put, in general I believe that Police may be too quick to get cuffs on people which obviously diminishes RP quite a bit however as a member of academy Im trying to improve this area for more higher quality RP

 
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