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The State of Roleplay and “Initiations”

Matt

Matt

Well-known member
Location
Southampton
Recently we’ve had a change of view from the staff team regarding the question of “at what point can you shoot someone?”. Can you shoot someone when they point a gun at you? Can you shoot someone if they threaten you?

I point you at the rule below.

(7.1.3) Killing someone must be carried out with high quality roleplay, “put your hands up or I will shoot” etc is considered low quality RP and may lead to a ban for RDM/Fail RP. Executing another player must also be carried out with high quality roleplay, the only exception to this rule is if both you and the victim are engaged in a gunfight together.

Today the staff team is clarifying it’s interpretation of this rule and the way we deal with reports for RDM/Fail RP.

The answer you will now receive to questions like “at what point can I shoot?” “Can I shoot him if he does X?” will be, have you engaged in high quality roleplay before you shot him?

We will not give a black and white definition of when you can shoot someone, you need to ensure you engage in roleplay of a high quality before you shoot someone. Nor will we give you an example of the minimum.

We have listened to your concerns, we have seen the incidents and we want the standard of RP to increase server wide and we want to help everyone to learn how to do that instead of banning for breaking of black and white unwritten rules.

My best advice is make your roleplay as interesting as you can, instead of running up to that guy you want to rob and telling him immediately to put his hands up give him a bit more, ask him what he’s up to, make a comment about this truck or his lovely pair of sunglasses.

BE CREATIVE!

- Matt and the Staff Team

Update 25/11/2019

So back in October 2017 in the above we discussed when can you shoot someone?

Then I wrote this post and we discussed 'Who is allowed to shoot'?:



Upon many requests from the community we'll now discuss 'Who are you allowed to shoot?"

"Who are you allowed to shoot?"

You've reached the course of your excellent and tense roleplay scenario, the bullets are flying and the gloves are off. A guy drives past in a car, can you shoot him? A guy points a gun at you, can you shoot him? Here's the official guidance of the RPUK staff team to put these questions to bed.

'As a rule, you may only shoot those who you know are directly involved in the course of roleplay leading up to the fight. Unless they meet one of the following criteria:

  • The person has been seen with a visible weapon either on their back or in their hands (this does not include holstered pistols) in the immediate vicinity of the gunfight.
  • The person is assisting the opposition by attempting to provide medical aid, dragging them to safety or by trying to secure their assets or vehicles.
  • The person is interfering in the gunfight such as stealing the vehicle which both sides are fighting for, attempting to capture or rob someone involved in the gunfight.
If the person does not meet any of the three criteria items above you must provide some form of roleplay to warn them to leave, that a gunfight is on-going and their continued presence will put their life in danger making it very clear they should leave. If they fail to heed your warnings, they are fair game."

Be prepared to defend your decisions if the reason you have killed the person is 'borderline' or 'iffy' and provide evidence to back up your claims that they were seen with a weapon etc, killing some random person driving past because they were seen 30 mins ago with a weapon would be a weak claim and will require you to back up your claims or face punishment. If in doubt, ensure you have good reason to shoot.

This guidance and ruling is to ensure entire areas do not become instant redoznes as soon as a gunfight starts, new players should not be shot on sight because they are unaware of what's going on, that's not roleplay. This rule also provides protection to those in a gunfight from people trolling or hiding behind the protection of "I don't have a gun, you can't shoot me". Tell them to sod off, if they fail to listen then they'll face the consequences.

 
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I totally agree with this mate, sometimes i am in situations where i get shot and i feel that more role play could of been engaged😄

 
Thank god for this, no more getting sprayed down after a few words, any other outcome would've been not so good 😀

 
So we as police can still be shooting we tell someone "stop or you will be tazed / non lethal force will be used against you."

 
DSGT Fergus said:
 "stop or you will be tazed / non lethal force will be used against you."
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If that's the first thing you say to someone then expect someone to be pissed that you have not given them any RP. 

Being tazed/rubbered is as good as being shot. As in my book as soon as you can not defend yourself due to being restrained  (because of non-lethal force being used on me) it's very much one sided. You generally end up with a ticket, losing your gear or prison. 

You leave said individual no real choose but to counter initiate on you. This will result in someone's death, then a report for RDM or fail RP.  All of which this post is try to end.  

 
I dont mind having a little convo and some longer rp to initiate, but as a cop whenever i approach anyone they usually just run away or continue selling their stuff or proccessing... how would you say handle that? Cuz it makes it hard to rp with people who do that.

 
_Jesse_ said:
I dont mind having a little convo and some longer rp to initiate, but as a cop whenever i approach anyone they usually just run away or continue selling their stuff or proccessing... how would you say handle that? Cuz it makes it hard to rp with people who do that.
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As long as you give your best quality RP and give them the opportunity to do the same there's nothing more you can do if they simply don't want to return that roleplay.

 
OK serious question here, if I'm doing a 'snatch and grab' hostage taking, and clearly the whole point is to get them as soon as possible with minimal fuss and then RP with them whilst they are a hostage. If you begin to threaten them and a cop decides to use this RP rule against you, as in refuse to put their hands up after you've threatened them as they know in theory you can't really shoot due to you having to give high qual RP what would could you do?

Example, I jump out of a vehicle and draw my weapon, there is a cop standing there. I tell them 'Place your hands above your head right now, do not radio in your location and do no draw a weapon, if you fail to do so you shall be shot/rubbered / knocked out' etc. (You have to be blunt I mean you're taking them hostage if you piss around they shall call for back-up, regardless of whether or not you're hostile to them)

If they fail to comply and you carry out these actions is this still breaking the rule? Because like I said the whole point is you RP after you have them not whilst you're in the process of getting them. Obviously as UNMC backup is often called the second you get out of the car. I'm assuming this would just be common sense? Value your life or face being shot sort of thing?
 

 
I think applying the appropriate roleplay in the appropriate situation would be a more ideal rule. For example you shouldn't strike up a conversation with someone, if you're planning to snatch and grab them. You would realistically tell them to comply and use force, if they didn't. I think it using common sense would be much easier.

 
This could make situations like this much more interesting, especially situations where both party’s have guys in the area might lead to party’s calling It quits and leave each other alone  and might decrease the amount of gunfights that happen. I see a lot of reports coming in against people that haven’t seen this though. 

 
CST Alfred H said:
If that's the first thing you say to someone then expect someone to be pissed that you have not given them any RP. 

Being tazed/rubbered is as good as being shot. As in my book as soon as you can not defend yourself due to being restrained  (because of non-lethal force being used on me) it's very much one sided. You generally end up with a ticket, losing your gear or prison. 

You leave said individual no real choose but to counter initiate on you. This will result in someone's death, then a report for RDM or fail RP.  All of which this post is try to end.  
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There is another perfectly viable option to 'counter initiating'. You can accept that you've been caught and do your best to make the most of the time leading up to being dropped off at the prison, or talk about how you've learned from your mistakes, or about how you feel awful about all the bad things you've done.

In my time in the police, I've seen hundreds of situations end in a small ticket and a gun being taken because the perp has offered a civil, engaging conversation rather than immediately alerting officers to he presence of 'friends in the area'. 

This new way of looking at situations, I hope, will take the state of the layer base on this server back to how it was when I first found it, back when people didn't get all fired up and threaten to post complaints or reports each and every time they were shot.

 
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@Tommy Shelby it's up to you to interpret what's going to be good RP or not.

For me a lot of people need to learn that RP isn't about winning or losing as @Dredd the Destroyer says.

The rule says you can't kill or execute without that element of high quality roleplay, as long as you give that quality you're good to go. We want these situations where someone just suddenly shoots the other guy because they suddenly feel they qualify to shoot them to vanish for good. We went tense stand offs, we want shit to hit the fan suddenly when the guy dashes behind his truck and you lose sight after he's distracted you and the chase begins, RP ALL THE THINGS!

We understand this will take some adjustment so staff have all been briefed on how we're handling situations from now on and for me it's a fantastically positive step towards new heights of quality RP.

 
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