The player count crisis.

[WhoisDan]

To me this is the last call and last chance to get things right... councils of players and 6 hour meetings do not work and won't work, Sorry to shut down a good idea on paper but what can that team of players do that I cannot ? I know for a fact you cannot argue for a suggestion to be done and put on the live server louder and with more weight than I can.

It's not about being able to do something that you can't, it's about handing the decisions to a democratic group of players that are experienced and active and that are better able to represent the entire community. I am disappointed that you're writing that idea off so quickly, but not really surprised. Whenever the community cries out for change, we get the same generic response. The amount of times I've heard 'yeah the changes took longer than expected' and 'factions run themselves' over the past six years is beyond count. And then we have a community meeting, the gun prices get changed and the redzones get removed only to be readded six months later and rinse and repeat. I don't think that's enough this time, we need widescale changes to the way things work to deal with the issues that have been pointed out here. I get that making this kind of changes is difficult after things have been the way they are for so long, but if the Altis server is to survive I don't think the little gameplay tweaks that keep it tickling along are going to cut it. 

 

[Wilco]

@Wilco

My arguments stems around the visibility or therefore lack of visibility of the management team and the accountability issue that has been prevalent for years.

I am not stating members of management should be completely ousted from their positions, I even offered a solution of them holding an honourary role to ensure they are still a part of this community.

I know members such as TBJ, Ciaran have other commitments and rightly so they should, this community cannot be the be all and end all of someone's life 24/7. But when looking at others such as Mr Cardoso, who I only engaged with briefly over Gang Beasts in early 2017 when I was staff. I won't try and make up a reason for his absence but he last visited the forums on the 27th July 2020. How can somebody provide their input without being able to potentially grasp the current state of the community? The idea of my suggestion is to have a board of perhaps 4-6 members of the community who have been longstanding members that possess individual ideas and the willingness to drive the community in a positive manner, not one controlled by agenda or personal views.

Now about accountability, over the past however many years, each member of the community is accountable to some degree, players are accountable for following the rules, if not they are banned. Faction members are held accountable to additional rules, if breached, they are sanctioned or removed. Faction leads are accountable for their actions on a larger scale whereby the mistakes they make are more public and as public figures need to be addressed appropriately to send the right message. I've seen NHS leads, Police leads be banned, removed for small things as well as large things.

But there is an inherent issue, I don't see the same level of accountability held towards management, this is in particular aimed at Vladic's streams. He will appear once a week on a Friday, proceed to log onto the server (Altis or GTA) and spectate or engage with players on at that time. Whilst doing so, Vlad has a duty to entertain his viewers, which he does by getting involved with RolePlay or by drinking, this results in a potential lack of stable mind and when combined with lack of knowledge regarding the meta of the servers, when something is seen he does not agree with, he will either go into an outburst or make rash decisions quickly. Proceeding to publicly humiliate that person in the process via means of swearing, throwing verbal abuse, which I will add, if somebody else did, would be banned on the spot. 

When his stream is all said and done, what happens next? The persons subject to his out of game abuse are left to feel stupid or lack the want to continue playing. Most people expect to get banned just for disagreeing with him. But what happens to Vlad? He goes away for a week to return Friday and do it all over again. That to me and I'm sure many other members, is not fair. I understand a reason for lack of knowledge of the current meta is down to him being deployed for months at a time, fair enough, but that doesn't excuse his demeanour or behaviour on stream towards others who are here every other day at the least and are trying to do what they can. 

As a TL;DR

Management for their own reasons are not around enough to show a definitive understanding of the direction of the server, as a solution, a team of long standing members could be formed to make these decisions in the interests of the community. As well as this, accountability on the server is askew, management are not held to the same standards of accountability that other members are, allowing them to get away with publicly humiliating members whilst also hurling abuse at them.

Honorary role for what exactly ? It sound's a little pointless to me moving people upstairs or to the side for no reason at all, You are either committed to the project or you are not.

Everyone in management has earned their position and the right to be there, there is a great mix of people from different background and different experience levels, It is up to that person to either resign or if more serious other management members to vote them out of the team (we have never removed anyone from management to this day)

Visibility, I make it my task to be visible on the forums and to provide the voice of the management team where possible, I also like to have a joke on here now and again but I am sure people notice when I am leg pulling and where I am being more official, I cannot see an Area where a voice from the management team is lacking on this platform which still remains our number #1 communication platform.

The staff team provide the visibility for upholding the rules and the development team provide the visibility of the development of the server however I do notice the GTA RP team do a better job of this however they do have a lot more numbers.

You name mentioned @Mr Cardososo I have tagged him her to provide his own response, You also go on to mention @Vladic Kaso its only fair they get the chance themselves to respond to your comments.

I cannot take on board your comments about Mr Cardoso, people do go inactive and have a more important IRL to deal with, what I will say during this past year we have brought in Aiden to fill void's in activity.

@Ciarandoes tons for this community, Who do you think is in charge of keeping everything online with little downtime and jumps in and codes something crazy when a solution is needed across the board, who checks code and provides advice and input where required?

@TinyBigJacko Is inactive currently correct but if we need a grown up in the room about something complex or needed input from him I know we will get an answer same day, He has done tons coding wise, His Roleplay ideas are endless, I know he isn't here right now due to IRL but cares massively about this community and the direction we move in.

There is no mention of me... perhaps you think your bollocks should be bigger first ? I know I am not perfect working 50+ hours a week I still find time for this place... maybe that's the reason why I have only ran 670 miles this year and my girlfriend and dog look at me strange 

I take on board your views @Pontybut I feel that moving half the management team upstairs will not bring the server count back, In fact it will do nothing but upset some good people and make the rest of us feel we cannot go inactive! 

We will have a community vote today on if the staff team can stream while performing admin duty's, I will obviously allow them admin camera regardless of the outcome and of course any views on stream are their own... Just as you in a teamspeak room moaning about someone else or another faction.

Again I do not think that will bring numbers back to Altis Life, thanks for taking the time to respond and bring this up.

I’m fairly sure the initial message behind WhoIsDans post was to iterate that roleplay and player based has decreased.

So seeing response such as money making ought to be easier when the economy is cracked or to make more deathmatch events seems counterintuitive does it not?

I agree... Put yourself in my shoes or more importantly the development teams shoes... they are in a tunnel with many directions which one to take ?

 

[Ji]

1. As stated above, the drug runs needs to be worthwile. Nerf the legal runs and maybe the drug runs great again as they were before. This should encourage more interaction between new players, rebels, police aswell as poseidon.

2. Sort out some QOL things that other servers have had for years such as being able to cancel heal, easier access for everyone to full NVG helmets, hex color customization, cars despawning faster in the capzones etc.

3. Something new for rebels. As @3FingerGamingstated; if we want the server to be healthy we need active rebel gangs. Without rebel gangs there is not a lot for police and poseidon to do. I made a suggestion to add a weekly event for rebels where they can duke it out over a gang base. I think it would be a good idea to get representatives from the 3 biggest gangs; Plebs, Ground Branch and Relic and fine tune the suggestion to their liking.

 

[Shambala12]

On the occasional visit to the forums to see my old passion. I think i can speak for quite a number of people, if there were a number of changes to improve the rp/activities to do plus revamp of the staff team etc (very good points listed above), i think a lot of people would return. But things need changing. Only 2-3 years ago a 3rd server was needed by 1pm on a sat and look at it now. Bring back the good old ALUK/RPUK days where gunfights were with a decent amount of rp instead of hands up or die. 

 

[Jesse]

1. Make illegal and drug runs ACTUALLY WORTH IT - make ME as a player with 180+ Million want to do a drug run in a hemtt. - make it pay around 3 mill for the best runs, so the money is actually worth it. I think it is key to make the use of land vehicles more viable as it encourages more encounters. 

Both Poseidon and regular drug runs should be returned to their price that it was at the end of 2019.
Literrally no one wants to do runs (Removes alot of player interraction) due to the fact that it's just utter garbage compared to the prices you pay for gear & vehicles.
600k for a HEMTT of poseidon weed in 2020... vs 2019: 1.200.000 cash per hemmt...

As long as runs are bad people can't be arsed to do them and like I said it removes one of the biggest chunks of player interraction.

 

[Wilco]

It's not about being able to do something that you can't, it's about handing the decisions to a democratic group of players that are experienced and active and that are better able to represent the entire community. I am disappointed that you're writing that idea off so quickly, but not really surprised. Whenever the community cries out for change, we get the same generic response. The amount of times I've heard 'yeah the changes took longer than expected' and 'factions run themselves' over the past six years is beyond count. And then we have a community meeting, the gun prices get changed and the redzones get removed only to be readded six months later and rinse and repeat. I don't think that's enough this time, we need widescale changes to the way things work to deal with the issues that have been pointed out here. I get that making this kind of changes is difficult after things have been the way they are for so long, but if the Altis server is to survive I don't think the little gameplay tweaks that keep it tickling along are going to cut it. 

Ok... lets do this another way

I will launch a community vote for an advisory group later today, It will last for 24 hours I will hold this vote on the forums, I will advertise it to all on Discord, Teamspeak, Twitter, Facebook and the Steam group to make sure current and previous members get their chance.

If that vote is accepted we will take an advisory group that report directly to me and I will directly report it to management... you will be chairperson and you will start a topic and get a team elected that cater for all groups including the gunfighters, the civs, the factions, you will come up with a name for this group and I will also submit items to you that I want input in from this group from time to time.

However! You must understand the current situation... @sciencefreak74 / @Jaffa Can one of you please report here the numbers and who is active in the Arma dev team and there coding capability's, as for the factions they do run themselves... They request changes but I will take future changes from the advisory group where necessary and submit to management and where we need to get involved we will.

You very much have me mistaken @WhoisDanI wonder if you are holding onto the past a little bit, I do not type responces for the fun of it... I am very honest in the way that things are, People did not like the steam roller that once was "Wilco"

This group will host a Altis Life team meeting once every 2 weeks or where not needed at least once a month, they will also have no input to the direction of GTA RP or the wider community (we are management of just not Altis Life)

The redzones will not be removed, It was a successful community vote, It was removed years ago not 6 months ago because I stamped my feet and said they had no place on a Roleplay server so I struggle with your rinse and repeat comment.

If we are going to do this then a line needs to be drawn so what's happened in the past drop that shit and lets move forward.

 

[Tadeusz]

1. Review of the licenses

2.  Review of the drugs. I know devs made some changes but the change log was a bit vague. 

3. Certain rules to be more relaxed 

 

[WhoisDan]

Ok... lets do this another way

I will launch a community vote for an advisory group later today, It will last for 24 hours I will hold this vote on the forums, I will advertise it to all on Discord, Teamspeak, Twitter, Facebook and the Steam group to make sure current and previous members get their chance.

If that vote is accepted we will take an advisory group that report directly to me and I will directly report it to management... you will be chairperson and you will start a topic and get a team elected that cater for all groups including the gunfighters, the civs, the factions, you will come up with a name for this group and I will also submit items to you that I want input in from this group from time to time.

However! You must understand the current situation... @sciencefreak74 / @Jaffa Can one of you please report here the numbers and who is active in the Arma dev team and there coding capability's, as for the factions they do run themselves... They request changes but I will take future changes from the advisory group where necessary and submit to management and where we need to get involved we will.

This group will host a Altis Life team meeting once every 2 weeks or where not needed at least once a month, they will also have no input to the direction of GTA RP or the wider community (we are management of just not Altis Life)

The redzones will not be removed, It was a successful community vote, It was removed years ago not 6 months ago because I stamped my feet and said they had no place on a Roleplay server so I struggle with your rinse and repeat comment.

If we are going to do this then a line needs to be drawn so what's happened in the past drop that shit and lets move forward.

I'd be open to this, as long as the suggestions and opinions of this advisory group are taken seriously. If it's just going to be an in-person suggestons forum then there's no point, but if this group is genuinely listened to then I think that's a great idea.

 

[Tadeusz]

1. Review of the licenses

2.  Review of the drugs. I know devs made some changes but the change log was a bit vague. 

3. Certain rules to be more relaxed 

Ultimately altis life is at or near the end of its lifespan. If we want to attract more players then it needs to be easier to get in to it. 

 

[Yello]

I think currently some of the reasons are:

- Christmas (obviously)

- Cyberpunk Release (10th December)

- GTA Online update 

These are just excuses, it’s not this... look at the other player counts of other servers and before cyberpunk was released we were in the same spot 

 

[PC Akula]

rework suggestions just get moved to the "to be considered" like there are posts there over a year old with 80+ votes

 

[Ponty]

@Wilco

I appreciate the response provided however the size of my bollocks are irrelevant to the fact I did not mention you. 
The main reason being what I was referring to didn’t apply to you.

Activity - You are active

Accountability - A long time ago you chose to step back as a result of community feedback, you were held accountable and made a decision to benefit everyone, therefore does not apply.

I also mentioned in my post about how I appreciate people are inactive for legitimate reasons, but you must appreciate the potential need for those who are active and have a profound understanding of the server should be able to assist.

Management should always have one hand on the wheel, but allowing us to help will be a positive thing for all.

 

[Zaka Riya]

If you believe that we need Radical change to the meta of the server, and we need to act like Reborn/GTA. Why not just play there?

People are playing elsewhere now because of these reasons, thats why there is a decline in players lol

 

[Yello]

A while ago I was asked by devs and management  to research what people wanted most, I did that with some help from the boys... https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E9ELeT41GkjGrvqj2wmvkqWSioDParkgay5WQyKksUI/edit

 

[Wayfarer]

A few points I want to offer but none of them will fix the issues;

When I stopped playing I had in the region of 50 million in my bank with two blackfishes . Back when I first started playing that would have put me in the top 10 or 20 richest people on the server. I think by now that makes me a middle to low tier player and entitled to emergency aid and food stamps.

Like Ponty is saying the economy got broken. Everyone has far too much money, nothing matters anymore to most people. There is no longer any consequence for anything. I don't believe gearing the server to combat will fix the issues. Too much ground was given towards fragging has already been given. Probably in the mad panic rush of a dwindling player base even more will be given. giving everyone mk200's, full nigh vision helmets,  no decamp scripts and guns at 1/4 price, will be a temporary  measure  that will not fix a thing, these are just cool toys that people want 

My reasoning for this is this. There is a certain psychology that that permeated though a large percentage of players, and that is the discharge of strength. Gangs used to go around and rob the weaker and alone people for "money" but it was more realistically for the fact that you were fucking someone over and it felt good. You took something away from them and it made you feel powerful. 

Gunfights work the same way. When you killed someone it would feel good because, unlike a game of call of duty, there was a cost to dying. When you killed that person, they had just lost a tangible thing in the way of money that took effort of maybe 30-40 real world minuets to obtain. 

Problem is now, there are no weaker person to rob, the gangs gathered so much money that they could afford the best gear that realistically nothing can stop them. Police are not really a threat to a group armed with mk1's. There was no real challenge or point to robbing someone because they couldn't fight back, and the 200 or 300k you got from them split between a gang wasn't worth the effort. In the process  these lone and weaker people got robbed into absolute robbed into oblivion by a force they couldn't hope to match. Even if they got a group together armed with rooks or mk20's they didn't have a hope. That's not fun, and no one likes feeling powerless so they most likely left. That is what happens to new players, there is no incentive to roleplay anymore and from when I last played Kavala was like a ghost town, the gunfights and the people are all at the redzones. 

These gangs moved  on to robbing banks or taking hostages, not for money or roleplay, but because they wanted to get a fight out of it for the thrill. I saw it happen time and time again. I got bored of being a cop and showing up to the 5th Athira bank robbery in an hour, and find one person standing inside with a mk1 but clearly being able to see helicopter and cars littered everywhere, and knowing full well where it was headed. They didn't need the 1 million split between 6 to 10 people, it was for the thrill of the fight.  

But constant gunfighting gets repetitive and boring, I know it did for me. And the only roleplay left is using it as a smoke screen to distract you while their mates get set up. Its gotten to the point now that everyone is chasing the hold high of what fights used to be like. But people will get bored of it again no matter how nice a gun or armored plane they have. 

This can become a fragging server and that might extend the life span by a little bit more. But I don't think it will help, the people who cared about roleplay and interacting with people are gone or leaving.

Before anyone replies asking what I think would fix the problem. I don't have any suggestions, just wanted to add a frame of reference. 

 

[sciencefreak74]

Can one of you please report here the numbers and who is active in the Arma dev team and there coding capability's

Jaffa - Busy at the moment/ semi active - Very very experienced when it comes to coding capability
Science(myself) - Active -  I don't want to comment on my own capability without coming off as an ego boost or something but in short I can code
DJHolyChirst - Other things going on at the moment/ can't be around - Capable of coding anything that needs coding
Nomad - Active but limited time - Fairly new to SQF but can handle simple/ medium difficulty SQF changes
LastNick - Active - Fairly new to SQF but can handle simple SQF changes. Also can make great skins
Gordon - Active - Can handle simple SQF changes and is an expert at changing config files

Pls no take offence any of you

 

[Jayray Holder]

I disagree on any advisory group / Council of members.

There's no one i can think of whatsoever who could do such a thing without being bias. Again, friends of friends will vote people in.

 

 

[Tadeusz]

A few points I want to offer but none of them will fix the issues;

When I stopped playing I had in the region of 50 million in my bank with two blackfishes . Back when I first started playing that would have put me in the top 10 or 20 richest people on the server. I think by now that makes me a middle to low tier player and entitled to emergency aid and food stamps.

Like Ponty is saying the economy got broken. Everyone has far too much money, nothing matters anymore to most people. There is no longer any consequence for anything. I don't believe gearing the server to combat will fix the issues. Too much ground was given towards fragging has already been given. Probably in the mad panic rush of a dwindling player base even more will be given. giving everyone mk200's, full nigh vision helmets,  no decamp scripts and guns at 1/4 price, will be a temporary  measure  that will not fix a thing, these are just cool toys that people want 

My reasoning for this is this. There is a certain psychology that that permeated though a large percentage of players, and that is the discharge of strength. Gangs used to go around and rob the weaker and alone people for "money" but it was more realistically for the fact that you were fucking someone over and it felt good. You took something away from them and it made you feel powerful. 

Gunfights work the same way. When you killed someone it would feel good because, unlike a game of call of duty, there was a cost to dying. When you killed that person, they had just lost a tangible thing in the way of money that took effort of maybe 30-40 real world minuets to obtain. 

Problem is now, there are no weaker person to rob, the gangs gathered so much money that they could afford the best gear that realistically nothing can stop them. Police are not really a threat to a group armed with mk1's. There was no real challenge or point to robbing someone because they couldn't fight back, and the 200 or 300k you got from them split between a gang wasn't worth the effort. In the process  these lone and weaker people got robbed into absolute robbed into oblivion by a force they couldn't hope to match. Even if they got a group together armed with rooks or mk20's they didn't have a hope. That's not fun, and no one likes feeling powerless so they most likely left. That is what happens to new players, there is no incentive to roleplay anymore and from when I last played Kavala was like a ghost town, the gunfights and the people are all at the redzones. 

These gangs moved  on to robbing banks or taking hostages, not for money or roleplay, but because they wanted to get a fight out of it for the thrill. I saw it happen time and time again. I got bored of being a cop and showing up to the 5th Athira bank robbery in an hour, and find one person standing inside with a mk1 but clearly being able to see helicopter and cars littered everywhere, and knowing full well where it was headed. They didn't need the 1 million split between 6 to 10 people, it was for the thrill of the fight.  

But constant gunfighting gets repetitive and boring, I know it did for me. And the only roleplay left is using it as a smoke screen to distract you while their mates get set up. Its gotten to the point now that everyone is chasing the hold high of what fights used to be like. But people will get bored of it again no matter how nice a gun or armored plane they have. 

This can become a fragging server and that might extend the life span by a little bit more. But I don't think it will help, the people who cared about roleplay and interacting with people are gone or leaving.

Before anyone replies asking what I think would fix the problem. I don't have any suggestions, just wanted to add a frame of reference. 

Yeah I agree money got ridiculous. I think there should've been a reset many years ago. It's became so convoluted because of the richness. It was the upper rich vs the poor new guy. It had an effect on everything. The only way I see forward is attracting new players and helping them get set up. I believe the reset could've been done when it first came up but now I believe it would be the death of it. 

 

[Kennedy]

What we need like ASAP is a change in money on the runs.

Back in the day people would do all illegal stuff to get their money and it was good because there was so much interaction and thats what we want. I remember back in the days you pull up to weed pro and 4 hemt boxes standing there you get in a big big gunfight when cops arrive to check it too and even if that didnt happen, your way to the drug dealer would be 100% a chase rebel or cops sometimes even both. Thats what we want back some action and interaction.

Right now people are doing not illegal runs like salt. Like wtf? Obviously people gonna do salt if a run gives them like a mill ish and weed gives lower or a little bit higher for way much risk. We need a change in runs money for example if we do salt 600k for full hemt box and a full hemt box with weed for 1.3m people gonna do that its more risk but a bit more than twice as much money. Now it has no point in doing illegal runs because not illegal runs give almost as much with no risk...

And for people saying people got rich we should have resets back in the day, because right now its more difficult for people to get started its kinda bullshit because when people like me back in the day started around 2016 I knew people that had 300 mil? I was getting robbed for doing copper that gave me 300k in a full hemt box? I got a rough start too so it has no point in resets. Its rough life out here on altis if you got the balls and you are a man you get the money mate. 

We need the interaction back, right now if you go to kavala you find 0 people. They are all doing salt or christmas trees (15 mins 900k for just cutting trees and selling it LMAO) the runs are so fucked honestly...

 

[Wilco]

I have considered a wipe many times over the years but always came to the same conclusion, It will end up with half the playerbase leaving as they have lost what they have spent 1 month to 7 years on.

Might actually be the nail in the coffin if its done wrong, then there would be a massive discussion on this price being wrong... this price being too expensive based on what other places have done with their prices etc.

A lot of this community wont play elsewhere... alot of this community play elsewhere and is trying to shape us like elsewhere which is killing it for the people who don't

Mindfucking times!