Submitting Admin Complaints?

[Tornadium]

So it has went from "submitting admin complaints" to "requesting clarification"? The ban will stick. You can appeal at any time.

No?

I was accused of demanding a ban but I was not demanding anything. With regards to this thread I was interested in speaking to a head admin about how that was handled and if required submit a complaint if I felt one was warranted. To make it clear, I was referring to your accusation that I was demanding things not the purpose of this thread. This thread was made to find out where I submit a complaint or who I would talk to. That has been answered.

To this point however, I still haven't received any answer to my question about how I was meant to try to resolve this. I wasn't willing to drop it, they weren't willing to admit guilt or any wrongdoing. I don't know where I am meant to go from that point or if I'm just obligated to waste more of my time in the early hours of the morning in order to tick a box on a form?.

Can you tell me what the reasoning for the ban was at least? I don't have any information for that form at all. Nothing shows up in the ingame message. Preferably I'd like some specifics regarding what triggered the 1d ban as well as your reasoning so I can correctly defend myself. I'd like to reiterate I have not at any point demanded anything and I have not been rude nor have I had a bad attitude. I suppose you could argue that is your interpretation of it but I can't really defend myself from an interpretation. For example you think I'm demanding a ban but I'm simply requesting a ban as that is the only form of resolution I can see. It is entirely up to you whether or not to accept it. I can't make demands of you.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Vladic Ka]

Your 1D ban is because I feel you are being disruptive and are here to cause issues. Every so often we get someone just like you who writes long thought out reasoning of why they are right and why everyone else is wrong. 1D covers people like that quite nicely.

 

[Tornadium]

Your 1D ban is because I feel you are being disruptive and are here to cause issues. Every so often we get someone just like you who writes long thought out reasoning of why they are right and why everyone else is wrong. 1D covers people like that quite nicely.

How am I meant to defend myself against that kind of accusation?

What did I say that was disruptive? Was I rude to you in this thread? What issues did I cause? I'm not sure how to even go about appealing that? I'm just asking for assistance, I was griefed along with other people and I made a request. I feel the request got dismissed out of hand without taking into account the context of the situation and I asked for information about which admin I would talk to if I wanted to discuss this further and make a complaint.

Again, not trying to be rude here but you still haven't told me what I should have done. How am I going to be able to improve to meet whatever standards you believe I am failing to meet if you don't give me guidance of what I should have done?

Can I have a little bit more information please? It's really not anything I can create real appeal from at all right now.

 

[Vladic Ka]

They expect you to talk it out with the player on teamspeak, preferably in the presence of an unbiased 3rd party - the Mentor team. Even if they are griefing you - be the bigger man. You can't claim to want to adhere to rules and policies of the server - and then not follow the reporting policies and complain about it when rejected.

In your report you said:

---------------

There is nothing to resolve.

I want a ban handed out. Opening up on people in the Green Zone is literally as awful of a player as you can possibly get. I do not want gear, I do not want money. I want a ban handed out for this.

---------------

That's demanding, yo. 

Zeito said it perfectly. 

 

[Tornadium]

Zeito said it perfectly. 

This might sound rude, but I need an answer to this.

Am I expected to waste even more of my free time by jumping into Teamspeak to be yelled at by 3 people about how they didn't do anything wrong and they were perfectly justified in their actions because I was driving a car that looked like one of theirs?. Myself and others felt there was literally zero chance of resolving it on teamspeak as they were perfectly clear in being unrepentant over their actions ingame and were also perfectly clear in believing they were right.

I don't understand am I expected to jump into Teamspeak to listen to a group of griefers continue to troll and say things like "You got merced kid stop crying" just to be able to tick a box? I mean I tried resolving it ingame so why would I have to jump through the same hoops in teamspeak and waste more of my free time on yet another session of unpleasant interaction?

Regardless of what I just asked I would very much appreciate it if you could give me more information about why you think I'm being disruptive, specifically what I am doing that is disruptive and what I can do to correct this behavior.

Please.

 

[Zeito]

This might sound rude, but I need an answer to this.

Am I expected to waste even more of my free time by jumping into Teamspeak to be yelled at by 3 people about how they didn't do anything wrong and they were perfectly justified in their actions because I was driving a car that looked like one of theirs?. Myself and others felt there was literally zero chance of resolving it on teamspeak as they were perfectly clear in being unrepentant over their actions ingame and were also perfectly clear in believing they were right.

I don't understand am I expected to jump into Teamspeak to listen to a group of griefers continue to troll and say things like "You got merced kid stop crying" just to be able to tick a box? I mean I tried resolving it ingame so why would I have to jump through the same hoops in teamspeak and waste more of my free time on yet another session of unpleasant interaction?

Regardless of what I just asked I would very much appreciate it if you could give me more information about why you think I'm being disruptive, specifically what I am doing that is disruptive and what I can do to correct this behavior.

Please.

Yes. As we have all said. Repeatedly here. Yes - you are expected to talk it out with them, regardless of their attitude. If you think it's wasting your time, then don't bother filing a report. Regardless of what you THINK the outcome on TS will be, you are expected as part of the Report a Player rules, to try and resolve it. You didn't, so it was denied. I'm not sure how many times this needs to be reiterated.

As for your last question, I can't answer that @Vladic Kais the only one who can - if I had to guess, it would be you not wanting to resolve it and repeatedly stating you wanted the players banned. That's not the community spirit. But i believe it is also the admins prerogative.

 

[Tornadium]

Yes. As we have all said. Repeatedly here. Yes - you are expected to talk it out with them, regardless of their attitude. If you think it's wasting your time, then don't bother filing a report. Regardless of what you THINK the outcome on TS will be, you are expected as part of the Report a Player rules, to try and resolve it. You didn't, so it was denied. I'm not sure how many times this needs to be reiterated.

As for your last question, I can't answer that @Vladic Kais the only one who can - if I had to guess, it would be you not wanting to resolve it and repeatedly stating you wanted the players banned. That's not the community spirit. But i believe it is also the admins prerogative.

Alright, I can't say I understand the purpose of that at all. They made it clear they weren't going to budge when we were talking ingame. We had talked it out ingame and it was literally getting nowhere and starting to get ugly. It just to me at least seems like an exercise in futility as everything had already been discussed ingame and it was going in circles. I'm not really going to want to talk about it on Teamspeak either when I'm constantly getting insulted when being told to get on Teamspeak. Just seems to be like it's incredibly easy to grief and piss people off to the point where they won't bother reporting it because they would genuinely rather not talk to them on Teamspeak because the interaction is that unpleasant.

I don't know really. I just can't grasp the logic behind tossing a ban request out of someone blatantly and repeatedly breaking the rules just because they managed to anger someone some much that they were done communicating with them.

As for the second part, I had attempted to resolve it. Just not on Teamspeak. I wasn't interested in getting compensation for the gear I lost. I was interested in them understanding the server rules and understanding why what they did was not kosher.

Something they singularly failed to do hence the ban request because I don't believe people should have to play with people who are interested only in toeing the line and griefing every possible chance they get.

I'll wait for @Vladic Kato reply with more information before making an appeal.

 

[Vladic Ka]

You make it clear in both the report and here that all you wanted to do is get someone banned with very little evidence and even when the report is rejected you STILL feel hard done by and had to make this thread complaining that the decision was a bad one. If the players you reported are as bad as you say they will not last long anyway. Just as anyone arguing in side or threatening to report will not last long. As a community we are very good a weeding people like that out. 

Zeito once again got it spot on. The attitude you have shown is not something we promote here. When I read your responses both here and in the report alarm bells rang and as someone who has been here a fair amount of time this kind of thing needs to be nipped in the bud as soon as possible before it blossoms.

If I have any advice for you it is to get proof of any rulebreaks you see and try to resolve them on TS or even try messaging them in game and get screen shots of their responses if they are as bad as you say. NEVER argue in sidechat. Overall just keep a cool head.

 

[Dylan]

Getting quite a negative vibe.... I've met Harold multiple times in game and he is a solid roleplayer

 

[Tornadium]

Getting quite a negative vibe.... I've met Harold multiple times in game and he is a solid roleplayer

He admitted to the actions as I have described them.

His ability as a roleplayer is irrelevant. I could be the best roleplayer on the server but still be punished when i break the rules.

You make it clear in both the report and here that all you wanted to do is get someone banned with very little evidence and even when the report is rejected you STILL feel hard done by and had to make this thread complaining that the decision was a bad one. If the players you reported are as bad as you say they will not last long anyway. Just as anyone arguing in side or threatening to report will not last long. As a community we are very good a weeding people like that out. 

Zeito once again got it spot on. The attitude you have shown is not something we promote here. When I read your responses both here and in the report alarm bells rang and as someone who has been here a fair amount of time this kind of thing needs to be nipped in the bud as soon as possible before it blossoms.

If I have any advice for you it is to get proof of any rulebreaks you see and try to resolve them on TS or even try messaging them in game and get screen shots of their responses if they are as bad as you say. NEVER argue in sidechat. Overall just keep a cool head.

Very little evidence? They admitted to everything I have just said. There are screenshots of the admission of their guilt, the person in question admitted their wrong doing as well as other community memvers backing it up.

I dont feel hard done by, I feel like blatant griefing with a vocal disregard for the rules should be dealt with. I requested a ban as a very very last resort.

I provided you with screenshots did I not? I'm still not sure what about my replies denoted a bad attitude. I feel I was perfectly respectable, I wasn't hostile towards anyone nor was I rude. I was requesting bans as an absolute last resort.

I think the issue here for me is that just because I didn't waste more of my time on a conversation that was turning nasty  is thatthe people who blatantly broke the rules get off scott free. 

Okay thank you very much for clarifying. What am I appealing? A ban based on attitude if i understand correctly?

 

[Vladic Ka]

This is the last from me. All the player admitted was that he messed up and killed you and was willing to comp you for it. I see no admission or evidence of killing in the green zone. All I see is your toxic attitude towards the whole situation. Good luck with your appeal.

 

[Tornadium]

Throughout this thread I have been perfectly respectful towards you. I asked politely and thanked you for your replies.

You have done nothing but insult me from start to finish why am I the toxic one? 

He admitted killing me in the Kavala Green Zone and community members confirmed this. 

You still haven't told me at all what about my attitude is toxic or inappropriate. I have done my best to speak to you with a respectful tone. 

I still don't even know what I'm even meant to be appealing right now. Can you please tell me what I said or did that prompted the ban that I haven't already contested? You tried to claim I was demanding bans when I was making a request. I honestly do not know how I can defend myself against accusations of things I literally haven't done l.

Can't edit correctly because using a phone on these forums is kinda odd. Regardless i'd also like to add 5000 compensation for 40k+ worth of gear and refusing to give me more than that isnt really trying to give me compensation.

 

[Samatlewis]

why am I the toxic one? 

BECAUSE YOU MADE A THREAD TO GET SOMEONE BANNED

 

[Tornadium]

Is that not the purpose of reporting someone who breaks a rule which specifically states breaking results in a ban? Especially when the person in question was adamant they had the right to RDM in the Kavala safezone?

 

[Samatlewis]

Is that not the purpose of reporting someone who breaks a rule which specifically states breaking results in a ban? Especially when the person in question was adamant they had the right to RDM in the Kavala safezone?

In a BAN REQUEST and NOT a NEW TOPIC. 

If an ADMIN [highlighted RED because you don't understand anything] DENIES the request you RESPECT that decision and don't try and COMPLAIN about the admin that is going through all these appeals in their FREE time.

YOU ignored part of the terms of reporting a player so why should the admin be forced to ban someone because you aren't happy with it?

REPORT PLAYERS THROUGH THE CORRECT PROCESS DON'T MOAN WHEN IT DOESN'T GO YOUR WAY.

Regardless if you have the best intentions for the community, why should admins care more about you than everyone else? If they accepted every request because the reporter isn't happy no one would be here.

 

[Tornadium]

In a BAN REQUEST and NOT a NEW TOPIC. 

If an ADMIN [highlighted RED because you don't understand anything] DENIES the request you RESPECT that decision and don't try and COMPLAIN about the admin that is going through all these appeals in their FREE time.

YOU ignored part of the terms of reporting a player so why should the admin be forced to ban someone because you aren't happy with it?

REPORT PLAYERS THROUGH THE CORRECT PROCESS DON'T MOAN WHEN IT DOESN'T GO YOUR WAY.

Regardless if you have the best intentions for the community, why should admins care more about you than everyone else? If they accepted every request because the reporter isn't happy no one would be here.

The new topic, as already explained was clarification surrounding the incident. I did not understand why the request had been denied outright despite evidence and backing from multiple players in the community to verify the story as I described it.

Is there a rule against making a complaint against administrative actions you consider to be unfair, unjust or invalid? If there is then my apologies and I will do my best in future to follow those rules but I am at this time ignorant of any such clause?

I didn't ignore the terms of reporting a player, I had attempted to resolve it and it had failed. That was my understanding of the situation, the person did not want to talk in order to express remorse or their understanding of the rules they had broken. They just wanted to yell at me and shout about how they had every right to kill me for literally no reason. Hell I could probably outright deny any ban request by that logic by continually asking someone to talk because they hadn't attempted to resolve it after the 10th try.

I was fully under the impression that I had followed the correct process, I had spoken to them ingame and had come to the conclusion that they were in no way going to ever admit their guilt and understand what they did wrong because they repeatedly announced their claim to the server that they had every right to RDM me in the safe zone because I was driving a car that looked like theirs.

The admins shouldn't care for me more than any other player, I'm absolutely nothing special. I'm just really struggling to understand the process behind all of this. I don't understand why I have to sit in Teamspeak for however long someone deems it necessary in order to be able to make a report. That is wasting my own time when every single interaction prior to me actually getting on teamspeak outright screams to every person on the server that those people didn't do anything wrong. That line of conversation was going ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE, because we had went around in circles 10+ times.

Edit: Like i'm literally begging one of you to assist me in understanding the logic behind this because I 100% honestly do not for a second understand how I'm expected to sit and listen to the same abuse that I've listened to for 20 minutes after being repeatedly griefed in the Kavala safezone for hours on end just to be able to report someone. I also don't understand why I am permabanned while the person who repeatedly griefed in the Kavala safezone is just let go free despite multiple community members backing up my claim.

Edit Edit: For real, I'm legitimately asking for help here because I do not understand how this is meant to be fairly enforced. It just seems to me like people can grief repeatedly with numerous chances before anything is done. I don't understand which rules I'm even meant to be trying to follow here.

 

[Samatlewis]

Simply; grab a mentor and have them mediate.

 

[Tornadium]

Simply; grab a mentor and have them mediate.

What is mentor meant to do? Is a mentor suddenly going to be able to change a group of people's mind that quickly? A group of people who up to that point where ENTIRELY convinced that their actions were perfectly okay under the server rules? In killing two people and shooting at others in the Kavala safezone?

Say for example I grief, Can I just get away with it because I want to resolve it outside of game by faking an apology? I just REALLY don't understand the mindset behind this all. It screams abuse-able and supporting of griefers to me.

 

[Samatlewis]

What is mentor meant to do? Is a mentor suddenly going to be able to change a group of people's mind that quickly? A group of people who up to that point where ENTIRELY convinced that their actions were perfectly okay under the server rules? In killing two people and shooting at others in the Kavala safezone?

Say for example I grief, Can I just get away with it because I want to resolve it outside of game by faking an apology? I just REALLY don't understand the mindset behind this all. It screams abuse-able and supporting of griefers to me.

 A mentor is someone who is not an admin but is there to help. They help deal with disputes before they come to the forums, help fix problems with game mechanics and other players etc.

By getting a mentor involved everyone must act mature. Anyone that blatantly breaks any community in the presence of a mentor after any warnings etc may be banned from the teamspeak, which could turn into a game ban if the mentore/ any other parties present decide to report the player on the forums.

If, for example there is a group of players that are going to be 'rowdy' when you are disputing, then contact a mentor and ask them to be present and act as a mediator for the duration. If anyone is rude/offesnive then they may face consequence if the mentor deems applicable or it will be as simple as the mentor confirming you tried to resolve it with the player and they refused to cooperate. They are unbiased community members. If someone doesn't understand the rules then a mentor will explain it to them, hopefully in a way the person/group understands.

Disputes are NOT meant to happen in-game. It's written in the rules '

3E) Threats to report / disputes / Breaking RP in Voice

There are so many people on the server with all different points of view and disputes and disagreements are all part of the game, however please do not discuss them in-game also do not break RP in voice.

 

[Tornadium]

 A mentor is someone who is not an admin but is there to help. They help deal with disputes before they come to the forums, help fix problems with game mechanics and other players etc.

By getting a mentor involved everyone must act mature. Anyone that blatantly breaks any community in the presence of a mentor after any warnings etc may be banned from the teamspeak, which could turn into a game ban if the mentore/ any other parties present decide to report the player on the forums.

If, for example there is a group of players that are going to be 'rowdy' when you are disputing, then contact a mentor and ask them to be present and act as a mediator for the duration. If anyone is rude/offesnive then they may face consequence if the mentor deems applicable or it will be as simple as the mentor confirming you tried to resolve it with the player and they refused to cooperate. They are unbiased community members. If someone doesn't understand the rules then a mentor will explain it to them, hopefully in a way the person/group understands.

Disputes are NOT meant to happen in-game. It's written in the rules '

3E) Threats to report / disputes / Breaking RP in Voice

There are so many people on the server with all different points of view and disputes and disagreements are all part of the game, however please do not discuss them in-game also do not break RP in voice.

Okay well I get that, but what's to stop someone acting one way ingame as in this circumstance then acting mature in teamspeak?

It doesn't accomplish anything? In an ideal world sure, but when you have people yelling and swearing at you ingame and then suddenly because a mentor is there suddenly they act nice? That doesn't sit well with me that it's okay to do that.