State of everything [Police POV]

[Ade]

If anyone has an amazon prime membership theres a really good documentary series on gangs and some of the most dangerous places in the world. Places where the police wont ever go because it is absolutely lawless. Ive watched 2 episodes so far. One was in South Africa, the other in the Phillipines.

So unless we suddenly all start to speak afrikaans or togalog and change the server to be called RP-Pinoy then I strongly suggest you all ditch the "this is gang turf, you're supposed to fear us" argument because this is not how the UK is. Its not a 3rd world or developing country. If we did change the server over to RP-Pinoy then Ponty would be dropping rounds on everyone because Rodrigo Duterte said he can. Drug dealers are killed instantly when recognised. there is no prison. its just a box in the ground.

Now. This thread could probably do with being locked behind an IQ test for some of the posting. I feel that some very valid points are being made on both sides. Yes there are penalties for the crims and there are risks for the cops. The whole reason Ponty said I dont want replies is because he doesnt trust the community at large to actively debate and discuss this and so far its devolving rapidly in to a shit flinging fest.

Heres an idea. Lets stop with the childish arguments of you said this so ill say this and try to look a little more objectively at the broader subject.

A problem has been identified. Instead of exacerbating it and twisting the narrative to get your own ego a rub why not try and come up with some real solutions to the problem so everyone benefits. Propose changes. Dig a little deeper in to why the problem occurs and get to the root cause. then find solutions to that. Band aids don't cut it when surgery is needed. cut out the shit.

Ponty raised some key points. PJ was the only one with any real retort so far and has thrown up a solid counter argument from the gang pov. some valid points raised by other officers also in support of the initial post shows there is clearly something of an issue here. 

We should be working together to address this as a community not arguing and carrying on being toxic to each other.

I personally think if you feel so strongly about something you should be able to string together a couple of CONSTRUCTIVE sentences about what you would like to see changed and not just spew toxic filth and use facepalm responses to posts you don't like because there isn't a down vote option here.

 

[Bmav]

Roleplay does not require grinding. What you are talking about is the time spent making guns, getting money etc to later build up to gunfights. That is not roleplay.

Isn't selling drugs / Guns part of what a gang should be doing ?

 

[JB_]

As much as I can see the points raised in this thread its also worth pointing out that police only interact with gangs when there is a crime committed. There is a shit ton of RP involved with gangs. I can literally log on at 8 and before I know it its midnight and I have been in so many RP meetings and scenarios and this is a daily occurrence. I don't know about other gangs but we are constantly doing deals, meeting with groups/gangs, creating different situations when we can. Unfortunately for police they are only involved with us when we are either already shooting at someone else or someone else is shooting at us. By this point the RP is not the focal point because people are concentrating on killing each other and making it out alive. 

 

[Simon MacMillan]

As an Ex-Gang lead to Police Main, I'd comment on this matter, but, I'd rather keep my opinion to myself after reading some of these replies... 

 

[Stavik]

We’ll talk about it as a point in the staff meeting coming up. But reading this amongst other replies and other opinions we cant simply snap our fingers and its all fixed. 
 

This is about habits and those are quite hard to break and make new ones. 
 

What i do think is vital for anyone is the enjoyment for roleplay not only for yourself, but also others. What can you do to make this better and even more fun?

And to some of the gang members of all gangs, and this is my personal opinion. Act out your roles, stop the half assed roleplayer. You know who you are.

Again, it will be discussed.

 

[William Antrim]

Is it possible to flip this discussion on its head a bit. just for a second here think about the rewards for good behaviour rather than the penalties for bad behaviour. 

Is it possible to incentivise the good gangs and have people work alongside devs/management/staff whoever to bring a better standard. When someone gets pissed off they vent it out here, then everyone else chimes in and some people feel like its a personal vendetta. I have seen this thread in one form or another probably 3 or 4 times at least in the time ive lurked here. It always goes the same way. It almost becomes an argument and its not needed. There is no "us" and "them". Its a community, you have 4 players to pick from. Nobody is tied to one role. Everyone can freely mix and experience different points of view. I am not trying to turn it into one big hippy commune here with "peace and love man" or flower power but is it possible to just ask yourself individually how you can be better? 

Failing that, if the gangs give shit RP then send em back to prison permanently like has been done before. If the nice adult mature way doesnt work then life them all off and let them think about it. I say this from a criminal standpoint also. My forum name is different to my main char, i have played both sides extensively and i have found that when i am courteous and polite to the police i generally tend to get an easier time of it when they catch me. I have made millions in this server and have barely seen  a prison cell for that reason. It doesnt get talked about because why would it but lets be fair, do unto others and all of that. It kinda works. 

 

[Ade]

What i do think is vital for anyone is the enjoyment for roleplay not only for yourself, but also others. What can you do to make this better and even more fun?

That right there is the seismic shift required to change this whole conversation for the better. Its about each and every person thinking about what they are doing and not being so selfish in their actions so everyone gets to have a little fun. That absolutely includes the police and all gang members.

JB makes a good point in that when the police are interacting with the gangs it is generally because hostility has either kicked off already or is just about to but what about the other side of that coin.

Why arent the gangs utilising the police for what they do, why start a gang war when you can have an untouchable army at your disposal by informing on your rivals and getting them taken out. CI, Criminal Informant, play the game in a different way. Make some good role play that way. Dob in some rivals and get them raided rather than getting in to a toxic war where by it ends up on the forum...... point in case - the latest balla-triad debacle.

Thats some good rp that involves the gangs and the police and doesnt mean shootouts and toxicity and negativity. There's plenty more.

It is never ever black and white, there is always the grey. I live there in the grey on my main.

To add one final point. Id like to throw this out more for the staff team for a bit of a discussion as I feel its an underlying theme to the discussion and I also think it would go some ways to "salve" the hurt on both sides.

Lessen the grind. Look at the big picture. Alleviate some of the issues to shorten the issue of replacing items and stuff that people lose. This makes things less about the item and more about the experience. While some of us in the community dont have too much of an issue with the loss of items the broader majority absolutely do and this is what always comes back. We worked hard for xyz so if we lose it we gotta grind more. Shorten that, it softens the blow of the loss, it means people are more willing to accept the losses and move on and hopefully become less selfish and toxic.

I dont mean walk to the mine click one button, get 1000 ore, have a gun made in 10 mins but at least loosen it up a little. Same with the reporting for the police etc. Look at ways to cut down the time for them doing "paperwork" make the entire experience feel less about "work" and more about the interaction with other players which is essentially what Roleplay is. Its the conversations, situations, experiences and entertainment of a day on the server.

 

[Dazz]

I don't play cop myself, but I do see your point of view here. I know how annoying it is to have to push a safe house corridor I personally hate holding it but there's not really much else I can do to defend. Its boring as fuck and doesn't benefit either party in terms of roleplay if anything it's boring and I just wanna log off when it happens and actually spend my time doing something worthwhile.

That being said gangs can provide good rp that police won't see, and nor would staff if they weren't spectating those involved which of course isn't going to happen when there's roughly 300 people about and staff want to roleplay too. I see what you mean about gangs just getting money and buying cars but if you were a gang member you'd realise that other than earn money there isn't much to do. You can create rp between people but it's never anything major which is unfortunate but people literally associate with gangs to do one of three things: Join, buy a gun or buy drugs and that's the extent of what outsiders want from us nothing more.

In terms of rp with police yes we are hostile but once again we're criminals we shouldn't be expected to be sound with you simply because you've captured us the back and forth is going to be there until we are processed. Both gangs and police get a lot of shit from each other both in game and ooc the arguments of "Win hungry police" and "gangs don't value rp" both are true to an extent but that doesn't mean any one player or faction is more valuable to the sever than another.

 

[Johnathon Reeds]

Isn't selling drugs / Guns part of what a gang should be doing ?

Not in a manner that promotes little to no roleplay

 

[adaco]

I was a cop in firearms for over a year, was a Sergeant & CTSFO and have been playing the server since June 2020.

Shit was fun at the beginning and overtime, as the force grew, in my opinion the quality declined.

Now the reason I mention the rank my character was and the training he had was to put emphasis on my POV of the LSPS. I was in (what I'd say) the best position I could be in, I was at the rank I wanted to be at and had the highest level of training (I had access to pretty much everything). As the majority know, I didn't just step down from a decent position, I chose to leave completely because I felt the police had gotten that bad.

Few of the main points from me are;

Going for the W 24/7 -  Some (not all) cops were always going for the win and providing little to no RP for the opposing side. I believe that I provided good RP in most of the scenarios I was engaged in, but it got hard to maintain that standard when the officers beside you are only focused on the win and the gunfight. For example, you'd be at a bank or shop robbery, you would approach, shout inside to try and initiate the RP and then you'd have some random Frontline officer sprint right on in there, taser out and tase the guy straight away. Essentially, what I'm saying is I believe there was a lack of care and effort into who got into the LSPS and how well they were trained/raised throughout their area.

Seriousness - I believe that the LSPS got way to serious in terms of systems & rules implemented which took some of the fun out of it, such as the TFC system. I am not saying that the TFC system was awful. It had its pros, ands its cons, for example, it was useful in grouping officers and knowing who was with who etc, but it also took the fun out of being able to do what you wanted in a sense, almost felt like it was an actual job, a chore, being told where and what to do instead of being able to chose what you wanted to respond to. Now during my time in the LSPS I did voice my opinion and raised any issues I saw, but in my opinion, things got worse, hence leading to mine and others characters retirement.

I personally believe that the Police should be more strict in terms of punishments and warning points. I'm unsure if its changed, but back when I was in the police, you did something 'bad' you got a warning point which would expire after (I believe) 3 months, an if you got 3 warning points, you'd be out. 

Ultimately, I get what @Pontyis saying in terms of;

I have seen the state of policing the server deteriorate near beyond the point of no return.
 

 As I also believe that the quality had decreased that much that it was beyond the point of no return. 

I've had the opportunity to equally view the server from both Police & Criminal POV and on the other hand, I also agree that it's not just the police where the quality has declined. It makes no sense for civilians and other uninvolved gang members to be getting close to Police V Gang shootouts as its just straight up stupid and no value of life and it also makes no sense for gangs to be having shootouts in multi-million pound vehicles (sportscars etc) in the middle of Legion Square. In my opinion the server has became more of a GTA online server full of 'fraggers' and has been for quite some time now, hence why myself and plenty of others have either stopped playing or play significantly less because its just not enjoyable to be a part of. 

Now, how do you fix such an issue? I couldn't say exactly, but I think starting with stricter punishments for rule breaks and enforcing rules more would be a good start. I've seen way to many people get away with blatant rule breaks, especially staff members.

This is not me having a dig at anyone or trying to cause drama, I am just simply voicing my opinions and thoughts on the matter and the state of the server.

El Hog & Big Lucas Marshall out x

 

[Bmav]

Not in a manner that promotes little to no roleplay

This is the part that JB was talking about, just because you don't see what happens behind the scenes it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

Alot of deals/ RP meetings happen between gangs and organizations and to be honest thats in my opinion at the very least the high point of playing criminal if it isn't for guns/drugs what other RP can a gang provide to the "common citizen" thats where the problem is people only go to gangs for 2 reasons and thats it we get the same everytime besides the gang wars that happen 24/7 nowdays which i don't agree with obviusly but there isn't much else.

I think everyone (both sides of the coin) just look at the surface and not at the content example of this is:

-Police doing alot of investigations behind the scenes.

-Crims doing alot of back alley deals for drugs and weapons.

As for the shit ton of shootouts that happen on a daily basis i can't really speak about that because me personaly only carry a gun very rarely when the situation deems necessary and also disagree with the ways wars are started nowdays because at the moment there isn't really much reason to start wars besides terretory control /drug control (but this one is a little pointless since everyone has the same drug) and most of the times the 2 reasons i meantioned aren't the ones that start it  and the wars are escalated to quickly instead of going through "softer" means like the meele wars that should happen more often before actually resorting to a gunfight.

I think what most crims want is something diffrent as PJ said at the moment the only things we can do diffrent (besides what i mentioned before) right now would be life invader and Bank but most of the times those RP situations get denied with in most situations its a gun and run entry ignoring the hostages and besides this you will find that most of the time its just a grind.

 

[Rees]

Don't come into the city as much as before due to the toxicity that i've seen from the city for some time and how most scenario's just end in a kill and dump situation and question whether or not that was good RP later.

Stavik makes a great point about breaking habbits and I think it should be looked into more and how to reward these people, because at the end of the day RP isn't about winning or losing it's about creating an enjoyable situtation for both parties involved and this should be focused on more.

Lessen the grind. Look at the big picture. Alleviate some of the issues to shorten the issue of replacing items and stuff that people lose.

Think this has to be looked into as well because this grind can contribute to this winning mentality people want at times becuase they don't want to lose the things that they have grinded for. This can then lead to them focusing on just winning situations and not creating an enjoyable scenario as a whole. I understand the grind isn't neccessary as well and people have different values where some want the best guns and the flashiest cars etc. where others will take pride in creating great scenario's. Overal think that something has to be done so that more people can meet in the middle and not just think about themselves but everyone else around them.

 

[MacDonald]

Looks like some things never change 

 

[Johnathon Reeds]

This is the part that JB was talking about, just because you don't see what happens behind the scenes it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

I've been a gang lead, a callaghan and so many more roles throughout my time on the server. I know exactly what happens behind the scenes, what I'm saying is that you running around for 3 hours selling drugs to locals is not roleplay.

In no way is that anyone's fault however, but we need to work together to figure out how things can improve, and how we can bring up the standard of roleplay from all sides on the server.

 

[JimmyTheGinger]

I haven't played RPUK much in a while but everytime the player cap was raised an influx of shit heads arrived and the state of RP got worse everytime.

Also, many of the prominent characters of the server, both cop and crim, failed to offer much RP. It comes from the top down. The people RPing everyday should be setting the example. Devs and staff should work to reward those that offer something to the server and limit those who offer nothing. It's near impossible to do that when there are 300 people.

 

[Richardd]

PC Ollie Dawson perspective: The gang rp revolving around shooting is always very poor, NVL and low rp standards is the acceptable norm, we dont want to report these people because all gangs do this, we cant ban the entire server. Since i became a cop in january, there has not been 1 time where i have been shot by a gang member who has given even remotely basic rp. Now I dont want to just breathe down the neck of the gangs, because dont get me wrong police can offer poor rp sometimes but its just not on the level of the gangs, you only have to look at actioned report a players.  Theres 2 ways to address this, reduce workload on police and better sentencing or 2/ improve the gang rp. I have had great interactions with many gangs before, and anyone who knows me sees that im just here for fun and not here to win. Anyone who has the decency to just talk to me knows that im not going to insta arrest you if you stop to talk. Often opportunity for this is nill. Some form of punishment through report a player other than just banning that makes people less reluctant to report players. "Punishments" such as "community service" forcing a person to do ridealongs with police or NHS could help people gain perspecitve in RP. Or even forcing someone to wear a dunce cap for a week for poor rp. Create a labour camp somewhere and force rulebreakers to pay for their crimes in rp aswell. Just throwing ideas out there. 

 

[Ade]

Labour gangs in prison orange being supervised by g6 is an amazing idea. My only worry is they'd try to escape too much. Or armed gangs would swarm them and hold up g6. Otherwise its a legit awesome idea @Richardd

 

[Charles Vane]

Every role in some way or another is shit. Wether its paperwork for the copperdogs or mining or selling drugs for gang members. We have gone over this topic multiple times and yes there are issues both sides. 

What i can say from a perspective from outside police and gang life is that i have actually seen worse RP from police than i have gang members. 

I am one to bash gangs hard because i dont think they are fulfilling the 'role' they were initially set out to do. But i speak with multiple gangs a day in meetings arranging things or trying to not get members of the lost mc killed every 5 mins haha. But generally over the last few weeks we have been in a few hairy situations where i thought 'this will just be the kill dump usual here' and not once has it been. 

In the same time frame i have had 1 interaction with police where they arrested mason at the smelter whilst smelting "because its a known drug area" he was searched and as soon as we questioned that it was "help im being surrounded" when we were standing talking. Shit loads of police showed up, nobody took charge all police were talking over eachother and being actually offensive to people just trying to talk to them. So.. yes, they got their heads blown off. And imo it was more than deserved because if they want to treat everyone like shit then they can get shit back. That situation ended with me being shot in a pd and instead of provide medical rp the police decided to leave me bleeding whilst arguing with a medic of how to transport me to hospital to which i decided to E respawn (which i have never done in 2 years) as if they had just left me for dead and chose to argue instead of provide treatment whilst other firearms talked about how many they had fragged in a op the same day

There is bad both sides, its something that will be spoke about by staff as stavik said but its all about what you do as an individual in every situation that makes the difference. 

Gangs atm are a unstoppable force which is a problem and i belueve gangs are too big. And i dont think they roleplay the fear of police in shootouts and stuff properly and police also have their own issues of lack of organisation from what i have witnessed. 

What i have spoken about is only based off my experience of both sides over the last month but yes. I agree the servers quality of roleplay has declined massively and is something i hope we can all do our bit to change. As i said, i see it on a daily basis i know gangs and police are capable of quality roleplay. I think JB is right where he says both sides tend to only see the bad with the interactions they have with eachother. 

 

[SixtyTwoSixx]

I Played Jonny Barnes for over 6+ months 10 hours a day and the other 6 months as a criminal just as much, I have literally seen it all from both sides and can literally say its absolute garbage from both sides. Police force is a laughing stock at the moment due to the fact that App's are easier than ever to get in, back when I tried to join it was at least 500 words and actually had to write a story or at least a believable one to get in and half arsed was not accepted at all, another reason Why my character is on Absence at the minute. As for gangs not gonna throw names because obviously that's not fair on the ones that do role play but most people in most gangs choose Gun-play over role-play and it is absolutely dreadful, as Charles said the minute a gang war starts over someone farting on tweedle, immediately Dump rinse, repeat, no roleplay just Cursing at them and annoying them making them Break Character/RP and then reporting them for it two wrongs don't make a right, Police are powerless also gangs are too big and can run over them and they know that which is even worse, you honestly think in a real life situation if your turf was rolled on by 10 ARV's you would sit in your safe house and start firing shots back and killing police officers and not get life in prison ? or in this case 20k month sentence, too be honest half you deserve worse for being so dumb for shooting people in public and turning the city into a play ground at times, and driving through the city firing Mini SMG's from your car and then complaining about it being scrapped, its honestly laughable, simple as Let the police, police the city and gangs be more secretive of what they do as in real life (you don't see Bloods & Crips posting Dead Body's on twitter and Facebook) Start Role-playing more and actually make a kill fun instead of saying i killed i killed and dumping them without saying a word, or bringing them dodgy doctor to rob them and making there life's miserable, leave them there for NHS to do there job let them remember, let the role play flow if NHS don't do there job well that's on them then (if they stay coming back asked them to TS) I am sorry but this my opinion and i really do hope it gets better, because lets be honest its a good city after all.

 

[Mr_Normal]

First of all, I haven’t been on the server long, so I will give my opinion in a very modest way. Nevertheless I would like to comment on a few things that were said concering paper work and lawsuits. In my last two paragraphs I want to make a suggestion to fight "anger role play" (I will explain that term at the end).

I care to imagine that from a police officers’ point of view writing reports and asking the judge for permission for further actions can be demanding. However please bear in mind that those things aren’t a waste of effort or a mere matter of form. This sort of paperwork enables other players from the judiciary to take part in that role play situation.

RPUK is one of the few servers who has an elaborate judiciary system. This was the reason why I joined the server in the first place, because I thought “wow, this server really made every effort to ceate a colourful role play experience”. And I personally love this aspect of the server. As a solicitor I can ask for access to those reports and they are the foundation for me to participate in this server, because I mainly play as a solicitor.

So at this point I want to thank everyone in the police who go to the bother of writing this stuff – without that me and my colleagues from the judiciary won’t be able to play on this server as lawyers at all. And therefore, many funny role play situations wouldn’t arise.

Consequently, please don’t see lawsuits against police officers as an attempt to punish anybody in terms of a real life punishment or as a revenge on the part of gangs. Lawsuits against the police are an important facet of court / legal role pay. They make possible that Gruppe 6 officers, judges, police solicitors, solicitors, witnesses, visitors, CID and so on can come together and enjoy a cool time in the court room. I believe that we should all appreciate the judiciary system, thus a claim against you should be regarded as an invitation to a nice role play situation apart from the everyday ordinary role play.

As for the rest: I think what the real problem is that sometimes people don’t really see what a role play game is about or forget it over time, because they delve into the game too much. It’s a cooperative game. You need the other person to interact with you. The police need gangs to have something to chase. The gangs need the police to have a counterpart. So as a person playing police your goal shouldn’t be to put a criminal away for a longer period of time. There must be a imprinsoment for sustaining a serious role play atmosphere. But the only reason for the custodial sentence is to provide a sense of “consequenses for criminal offences”. If a notion comes up like “I want to see that person behind the PC stay away from RPUK so therefore I put him in jail for a long time”, you should immediately stop playing the game for that evening and do something relaxing. I mean sometimes you’re not in the mood to interact with others and that’s human and okay. Despite that people think they can role play their anger IRL away. That’s not how it works. Only play if you’re in a good mood. Simple as that.

I would suggest that there is a section in the forums where you can report players for “anger role play”. This sort of role play which is not a breach of the rules itself, but yet annoying for others. There shouldn’t be a consequence like a ban or warning point for getting named in that area, but the person who got “reported” for “anger role play” should have the duty to explain oneself why he or she thinks he provided some bad role play. It would encourage people to report players who play in that grey area, and I think some players really need to see on the forums that their behaviour may not be a breach of rule, but nevertheless annoying.