Save the gang scene, unpopular how to.

[John Gabbana]

First thing first, let me open the umbrella for all the comments that will come, please remind this is my personal opinion and that this is my OOC opinion.

For me, who's been here since late 2020-early 2021, I've seen a masive fall from the gang scene and the gang roleplay, and for me, that's mainly because of lack of consequences, and lack of objectives to achive. In order to fix that, I will propose a series of changes that I would implement.


A) First point, consequences. Life is infinite, respawn has 0 consequences, let's go frag. People has 0 value for their life, and a quick way to fix that is to put a "cap" in how many times you can respawn in a month. You push 3 times a day for a 2 week period of time, and your character died a total of 42 times in a single month? Well, your character is gone for ever, "dead". Introduce a maximum ammount of times you can respawn withing a month, obviously with enough warnings and counters so noone "by mistake" end up deleting their character, but make it so people fear to die. And this apply for the whole server, both gangs and cops.
This link to my second point, people is not afraid to fight cos the injuries have 0 consequences. Lay in pillbox, respawn, get treated by a doctor... introduce a system of injuries that will affect your character for "X" ammount of time. You been shot in the arm? Maybe "X" minutes of shaky hands... Been shot in the leg? Maybe "X" minutes of unable to fully run....
Make it so people are still able to "fight" but think twice about the consequences.

B) Gang scene is dying and we gang members are the ones killing it. It doesn't make any sense for whitelisted gangs to fight eachother because "Y" breathed to "Z" in the wrong way, so now it is 22M compensation or war. Every and only whitelisted gangs should be holding something "unique", a item that is needed by the whole city, but that they hold the monopolio of it. Examples of it:
There is only 3 gangs in the server, 1,2,3. 1 holds coke, 2 holds powdered milk and 3 holds plastic bags. 1, 2 and 3 will be carefull with each other, because if they start an active conflict in between, they will struggle to obtain the components they need for a daily. This example don't need to be relating holding matters of the same thing (drugs, guns) but something that put a firewall to inmediate declare war over nothing; or just go on a robbing spree blacked out because, again; there is 0 consequences even if i get caught.
Non whitelisted gangs will not have this privilege, and will have to grind for it.

C) Gun access in the server is pretty much fucked up. Everyone can get their hands into anything straight away. That really needs to change. Doesn't make any sense a "baldie" who just turned up and did a 24h run on binz can jump straight away on holding a revolver.
Normal civilian = Only able to hold meles or small pistols such as SNS.
Non whitelisted gangs = Only able to hold untill mid-tier guns, not being able to hold high tier guns such as service carabine / revolver, etc.
Whitelisted gangs = Able to hold every gun on the server.
Reward with a privilege to a whitelisted gang, and hold and motivate non whitelisted gangs to improve.

D) Reward system for whitelisted AND non whitelisted gangs.
Create a system of small side quests or small task to complete for gangs in order to achive extra stuff. For example and this is infinite examples that could happen:
- You manage to hit GUS and collect sucesfully 10 packs this month? The next pack will have a x6 multiply on the reward
- You manage to sell on your turf "X" ammount of drugs? The weekend from 18h to 20h locals will pay x3 times the drug sales (feel free to tax people, ROLEPLAY)
- You manage to rob "X" ammount of banks/bobcat ? The next one will have a x3 on the pay out, better plan it good.

Non whitelisted gangs.
- You managed to sell "X" ammount of drugs, and mine and smelt "X" ammount of materials? Your gang f6 is increased by 1 spot
- You have been watched by staff and they do consider your RP standarts and character development is good? You can get up to "X" members on your f6, and unlock up to "X" gun you can use.

Staff has been monitoring "X" gang and consider their roleplay standarts have been good for "X" ammount of time? Maybe just roleplay as an Albanian cartel that will reward them with "X" loot.
REWARD ROLEPLAY.

Long are gone the days of gangs scalate and use war as a last resource; only thing now people prioritice is who can frag more and get the best clips for the frag montage. It is the duty of whitelisted gangs to make RP enjoyable for every member of the server, and it's the duty of new born gangs to start earning privileges, even if the members that constutite it have been here since day 1, privilege must be earned; so instead of rolling blacked out causing nuisance will prioritice RP and RP storylines.

 

[Niamh]

As someone who started playing in 2021 from what I heard from older players was what was ruining the server for them was the amount of consequences gangs/crims faced and police just gaining more and more power.

And guns are not easier to come by. You could mine and smelt all the materials you needed and the price was much cheaper. No to mention police could just given them to you.

 

[Archie789]

W icl

 

[qaws]

There's a massive problem with how bleeding out / dying works atm.
As police, I see colleagues take more than letal shots (rev to head, 10+ smg to body) and get healed by nhs after some rp. Why? Probably because they can't be fucked driving back south and get all the items in their inventory again.

Crims tend to bleed out all the time when in police custody, roleplaying a shot to the leg as a headshot with "/me brain matter leaking, no pulse". Why? Because they lose their gun/ammo either way. Why do a prison sentence on top?

If you get shot in the arm with a high caliber gun, make it so you can only hold low caliber pistols for example for a week (not just crims, police too!). Or other debuffs. Maybe a week is a tad long but scenarios should have consequences. Don't want to do that so you just bleed out to avoid being handicapped? Tough luck, that will now be added to the aforementioned death counter.

Being a part of a non-whitelisted and a whitelisted group I do not agree with the gun tier sentiment however. My character has worked hard to get to where he is now, fighting people and burning bridges. With any weapon now to his availability it would be a shame if that disappears simply because we are not whitelisted. Unless, and this ties in with a different post, acquiring whitelisted becomes less tedious.

Having staff reward gangs that roleplay well getting some goodies from a friendly Dagestani crime family? Fuck yeah! More RP and it SHOWS that staff prefer RP over anything. There are gangs that primarily focus on RP but staff doesn't really show that it's to their liking atm. But also the flipside. Are you just fighting other gangs/police every day of every week? (I don't mean like Ballas or Occult, I mean full blown fragging like Alliance did for example before the blanket ban) Expect 20 fully geared SAS storming your compound/turf/base/hangout for example. Obv let RP go RP ways first but staff intervention isn't always that bad.

 

[norskov23]

Right now is really a difficult time to point out exactly what the problem is... Because in my opinion it has absolutely nothing to do with the lack of consequences, if anything it's the exact opposite.

At this current moment in time police are (in my opinion) EXTREMELY overpowered after the new fleet has been added. Cars that can go well over 200 mph without much effort, armoured Hellions, you name it. I doubt there are any gangs who in their right mind think that taking up fights with the police is a good idea. It is a guaranteed lose situation unless the police-force come seriously unprepared, which you almost never see.

B) Gang scene is dying and we gang members are the ones killing it. It doesn't make any sense for whitelisted gangs to fight eachother because "Y" breathed to "Z" in the wrong way, so now it is 22M compensation or war. Every and only whitelisted gangs should be holding something "unique", a item that is needed by the whole city, but that they hold the monopolio of it. Examples of it:
There is only 3 gangs in the server, 1,2,3. 1 holds coke, 2 holds powdered milk and 3 holds plastic bags. 1, 2 and 3 will be carefull with each other, because if they start an active conflict in between, they will struggle to obtain the components they need for a daily. This example don't need to be relating holding matters of the same thing (drugs, guns) but something that put a firewall to inmediate declare war over nothing; or just go on a robbing spree blacked out because, again; there is 0 consequences even if i get caught.
Non whitelisted gangs will not have this privilege, and will have to grind for it.

I actually quite like this idea but i think it needs to be a lot more nuanced than just splitting up individual items to different gangs, albeit i don't doubt you didn't mean it directly like that with obviously legal and easily obtainable items becoming one-gang exclusive.

 

[L1L]

I think its more likley a result of crims not having a clear ''objective'' when they join the server, crim players have always been expected to be the source, and create interesting RP where as factions (police, NHS, Lost etc) essentially exsist to respond. If crims had something to work towards other than being the strongest and badest i can imagine that the rest of the issues you've brought up would resolve themselves. I do think that groups should have the chanse of being in controll of something that people want/need but for the sake of longevity i dont think it should be something locked to a particular F6.

Lets face it, if something where to be implemented there is always going to be one thing that is more profitable/desirable than the other and this is where we find RP. It makes sense for groups to compete over this controll, be it through fighting or politics, it should be something dynamic that can change as a consequence of action. Something that can be lost, traded or ruined.

As for police, i do think that alot of players from this faction has taken a turn towards a more agressive playstyle. To me its obvious that this is a call and respond result of crim vs police RP up untill this point, if you think they're bad you should look at what you're doing yourself, are you doing anything different yourself? we are all just doing the same thing to eachother. As for the police getting these new ''OP'' vehicles, What we should all understand is that Crim players will always be of a higher skill level in general, they play at a higher risk with worse equipment and the most to loose wich means that they need to be better drivers, shooters and team-players to even stand a chance. As they get better or learn new tactics the police should adapt but instead they get better gear or faster cars, i can appriciate that the police as a faction is alot different compared to a crim-group but at some point, surley, its to much?

I will say that hearing @Conrad Jones (hopefully the right @) speak during the leads meeting did give me some hope towards things becoming better, i do genuinely hope he achives what ever his goals are.

 

[Atlas]

Cars that can go well over 200 mph without much effort

I know this isn’t really the place to discuss this and we’re going off topic here; but our new fleet on a whole is much slower than the imports. There is one car which does go far quicker than it should and we have made devs aware of this

 

[ParadoxRVS]

I'll go over some of your points from my point of view.

Yes, guns are more available to newer players in the server, however most of that is caused by who the gun sellers are willing to sell to. For example: Whenever I first joined the server and wanted to start selling coke I had to earn the trust of gang members before I could even talk about buying the coke. The server has changed a lot since then and now people have figured out that guns are very profitable to sell so people just sell to whoever now. TLDR: The Dealers Choose how available guns are to newer players.

I don't agree that if your character dies X amount of times a month it should be perma killed. As Pete said some professions are more dangerous than others and that could effect a character lifespan and roleplay stories. Because I would be upset if I was forced to delete my character I have built many stories on all because someone just RDMs me at pillbox or A robbery goes wrong etc.

Now, I also don't think that it'd be a great idea to make it to where regular civs, and whitelisted gang members have to be at a different "level" when it comes to weaponry. For example if a non whitelisted 15 man F6 has to go up against a 25 manned whitelisted F6 all because a whitelisted group has forced them into a war. The whitelisted group already has the numbers advantage and it would only further put them at a disadvantage due to them being locked using smaller caliber pistols and small smgs meanwhile the whitelisted gangs are using m16s and revs. TLDR: Would just make it very unfair especially for the people who took the time to get the weapons they have.

I also don't think staff shouldn't have to award good RP because all of us should be trying to provide good RP as a whole. Roleplay should be rewarded through in character things staff shouldn't have to hand out prizes to incentivize us to provide quality RP.

Now, One thing that does interest me in your "reward system" section would be the way that it effects Whitelisted gangs and the drug scene, as It'd help influence more people to pursue drugs and it'd provide more RP than logging on to bin for a few hours. Obviously the numbers would need some tweaking for balance purposes, but I don't think that banks should receive the boost because banks already are pretty lucrative and a high risk high reward option of roleplay.

However, I don't think that the non whitelisted gangs should be rewarded by Increasing their F6 slots by mining or selling because then a non whitelisted gang could go sit in the mines with 15 people and do that for a few days and then the new rule on 15 person F6 is just redundant at that point

 

[DomT]

There are definitely some good ideas being shared here that would encourage players to think through their actions due to the consequences.

On the death counter piece. I would say that of course if RDM takes place, then it needs to be reported and if approved, the death would be wiped from your counter. But these counters only apply when you respawn. So recovering through medical treatment would not count and therefore encourages more roleplay for crims, police and NHS.

Please remember however that not all non-whitelist groups are gangs. Some are working groups that have no interest in criminal activity or beefing. Any changes currently to how the non-wl F6 works impacts both groups and gangs, so please keep that in mind.

 

[Nikki Nixon]

They perm death thing is a big no sorry because people here have been working on their chars for years and for that to be taken away for too much realism would put people off the game. As for pretty much everything else i agree police are OP. Crims are dying off. I have seen so many gangs come and go and its just too hard and takes too much time to start a new gang. The beef RP silly on why Wars start. And once a gang hates another gang they always start for silly reasons and twitter gets spammed.

I have seen so many gang members just make new chars and join police. I know a lot of work has been put into trying to make crim life better but the non whitelisted gang cap didnt help. NHS is now booming, Police is true booming, so I would love to see gang/crim life worked on a lot more now as that is the majority of the server.

 

[Nikolai]

A) First point, consequences. Life is infinite, respawn has 0 consequences, let's go frag. People has 0 value for their life, and a quick way to fix that is to put a "cap" in how many times you can respawn in a month. You push 3 times a day for a 2 week period of time, and your character died a total of 42 times in a single month? Well, your character is gone for ever, "dead". Introduce a maximum ammount of times you can respawn withing a month, obviously with enough warnings and counters so noone "by mistake" end up deleting their character, but make it so people fear to die. And this apply for the whole server, both gangs and cops.

don't think there should a "if you die x times over x period, your character gets permed" as much as a dislike the current constant shooting, i still want shootings to happen, it is still GTA afterall.
if you add a factor of "you can only die 10 times a week" you'll limit RP, more than gain better RP, people will fear doing things that might not even involve shooting/fighting, just for the factor of "what if i die?"(i'm aware that that's your intention, don't get me wrong) but simple things like going for a walk across the map you risk death because GTA NPCs are morons, other players speed like crazy everywhere, hit you, don't see you(both NPC and player) and now you have to lay there and hope a medic is online to help you, even if the death was out of your control.

i'm aware, bug deaths can be negated, but death to NPC is a valid way to die, some of the characters are something else

i do agree with your second point in the "A" subsection though, some injuries should affect your player longer, instead of being fixed with simple bandages and likewise

Gang scene is dying and we gang members are the ones killing it. It doesn't make any sense for whitelisted gangs to fight eachother because "Y" breathed to "Z" in the wrong way, so now it is 22M compensation or war.

i agree, some war reasons are questionable, especially the ones starting over tweedle beef

Every and only whitelisted gangs should be holding something "unique", a item that is needed by the whole city, but that they hold the monopolio of it. Examples of it:

i agree somewhat, but i don't really have a different way of wanting it, but don't think it should be a monopoly so to speak, maybe something possible being faught over, but each gang can only hold a thing, so one group full of shooters don't controll all

Gun access in the server is pretty much fucked up. Everyone can get their hands into anything straight away. That really needs to change. Doesn't make any sense a "baldie" who just turned up and did a 24h run on binz can jump straight away on holding a revolver.
Normal civilian = Only able to hold meles or small pistols such as SNS.
Non whitelisted gangs = Only able to hold untill mid-tier guns, not being able to hold high tier guns such as service carabine / revolver, etc.
Whitelisted gangs = Able to hold every gun on the server.
Reward with a privilege to a whitelisted gang, and hold and motivate non whitelisted gangs to improve.

i agree guns are too common.

i disagree guns should be limited behind what you're involved in, reminds me of those "pay me 700$ to carry a pistol" servers, which seems dog
also, in the grand scheme of things, normal civ and non whitelist should hold the same "powers" if so, everyone can make a non whitelist, so everyone will make a non whitelist to do so.

Non whitelisted gangs.
- You managed to sell "X" ammount of drugs, and mine and smelt "X" ammount of materials? Your gang f6 is increased by 1 spot
- You have been watched by staff and they do consider your RP standarts and character development is good? You can get up to "X" members on your f6, and unlock up to "X" gun you can use.

no, please no, "grind for rewards" to your group seems ass.
also watched by staff thing, would that not just in essence be like it is currently? watched by staff and providing good RP with the chance of whitelist for it?

Staff has been monitoring "X" gang and consider their roleplay standarts have been good for "X" ammount of time? Maybe just roleplay as an Albanian cartel that will reward them with "X" loot.
REWARD ROLEPLAY.

not everything needs to be awarded with goodie bags, i agree staff and other known players should reward newer people/groups with decent roleplay, but it doesn't nessecarily have to be money, or guns or anything else, give them tips or something that will help them progress on the path they want.

also, goodie bags? are all goodie bags equal? how do you ensure that everyone gets the same value so one doesn't feel less rewarded than others? and so on

As police, I see colleagues take more than letal shots (rev to head, 10+ smg to body) and get healed by nhs after some rp. Why? Probably because they can't be fucked driving back south and get all the items in their inventory again.

i would not put all the blame on the player being revived(nor all the blame on NHS person reviving to be clear) but that's a group effort, if the cop doesn't RP his injuries and/or lies, medics will obviously get them up, if cops RP their injuries and medics don't listen(not saying they don't) they'll get them up, and so on and so on
you do have to remember, the NHS treating you has final say, you could easily be DNR'ed for your broken toe, and you would not be able to do much about it, unless they're breaking rules ofc.

At this current moment in time police are (in my opinion) EXTREMELY overpowered after the new fleet has been added. Cars that can go well over 200 mph without much effort, armoured Hellions, you name it

we have A car that can go over 200, given it's not the car(imo) that should go 200, but still only one afaik, maybe 2 don't quote me

Armoured hellion is locked behind CTSFO, that's like a percent of the police overall(not even kidding) so don't fret, same with MRAP aswell, also locked behind CT with auth from a firearms sgt or something

I doubt there are any gangs who in their right mind think that taking up fights with the police is a good idea.

you would believe that, but even without playing i do see a good chunk of vids almost daily of constant fights with police, it's never about in the right mind, you'll win if you plan ahead, which at a intial gunfight is easier for gang than police, unless you know, some cops are frag hungry, those do exists as we all know.

the police should adapt but instead they get better gear or faster cars, i can appriciate that the police as a faction is alot different compared to a crim-group but at some point, surley, its to much?

we've only really gotten the cars/boat/heli as of recent, gun changes happened due to the new CFX policies, but don't think guns have changed for us to be, better/worse.
feel free to quote me if i'm wrong, but as of late the updating has been more focused on civs/crims and police, looking away from cars which was a forced thing outside of RPUK.

I'm aware police are OP, we somewhat have to be, thought ofc we can be too OP compared to other groups, and if that's the case(i can't really comment) suggest and/or bring up with polcom, but please please please, if you suggest keep it respectable, instead of a whole "fuck police remove them, too op" that sometimes pops up here and there.


personal opinion and not of staff, yada yada yada

 

[L1L]

we've only really gotten the cars/boat/heli as of recent, gun changes happened due to the new CFX policies, but don't think guns have changed for us to be, better/worse.
feel free to quote me if i'm wrong, but as of late the updating has been more focused on civs/crims and police, looking away from cars which was a forced thing outside of RPUK.

I'm aware police are OP, we somewhat have to be, thought ofc we can be too OP compared to other groups, and if that's the case(i can't really comment) suggest and/or bring up with polcom, but please please please, if you suggest keep it respectable, instead of a whole "fuck police remove them, too op" that sometimes pops up here and there.

I'm not so much concerned with the new vehicles, in my opinion they need a hefty amount of balancing (especially the specialist vehicles) but i'll save that for a suggestion down the line.
As a firearms character, what is your opinion on the usage of the new armored helion, ops rifle and Blackhawk? The latter has seen a change from being a rare sight to something we see every day, from my POV this is rather disgruntling knowing how powerful they are. What is your reasoning behind this?

 

[Nikolai]

As a firearms character, what is your opinion on the usage of the new armored helion, ops rifle and Blackhawk? The latter has seen a change from being a rare sight to something we see every day, from my POV this is rather disgruntling knowing how powerful they are. What is your reasoning behind this?

i honestly haven't done much policing for the last 2 months, maybe like 15 hours or so

i think the armoured hellion is more due to "Hype" currently than much else, i have a feeling that i'll either die down and be less used and a 4 seater favoured over it, or some restrictions will appear at some point, due to it essentialy being a war vehicle.

ops rifle and blackhawk is hit or miss, they don't always go together(but ops rifle will almost always be in 99 to be clear, from my experience) if the gunfight allows it, then sure i guess, i would personally only really use it for gunfights with people on roofs, seems to find it's purpose better, but i'm also unsure about the rules behind the ops rifle due to not being CT and all that

 

[CSI Greenhalgh]

woah woah the CTSFO hellion is not armoured, you cannot put the plates on it.

 

[Joe Scrub]

woah woah the CTSFO hellion is not armoured, you cannot put the plates on it.

I was thinking this today, it literally has a big window on the back unless the hitboxes are broken?

 

[Jesse]

i do think that alot of players from this faction has taken a turn towards a more agressive playstyle

I've been in the police for ages at this point and can assure you that the playstyle of atleast firearms has severely dialed down from what it was in 2022.
Back then you would be skullfucked if you were a target and in gangfights in the city limits you only received 2 minutes of warnings inbefore either groups were engaged by the police.
These days there's only bark and barely any bite from the police. They've become risk adverse funny as this may sound. No idea how that happened as the gear is free.

As for the police getting these new ''OP'' vehicles

No idea what you mean with this, in the new fleet there is only 2 vehicles that excel and need some downtuning.
The rest of the fleet can't keep up with alot of regular vehicles.

 

[L1L]

No idea what you mean with this, in the new fleet there is only 2 vehicles that excel and need some downtuning.
The rest of the fleet can't keep up with alot of regular vehicles.

The front line komodas perform better than super cars? i can understand something like that for RPU but 170mph in your average patrol vehicle stands out as a rather significant change to me.

I've been in the police for ages at this point and can assure you that the playstyle of atleast firearms has severely dialed down from what it was in 2022.
Back then you would be skullfucked if you were a target and in gangfights in the city limits you only received 2 minutes of warnings inbefore either groups were engaged by the police.
These days there's only bark and barely any bite from the police. They've become risk adverse funny as this may sound. No idea how that happened as the gear is free.

That is your perspective wich is different to the one shared in the leads meeting where multiple people could attest to a notable change in the police toward escalating situations.

 

[CSI Greenhalgh]

The front line komodas perform better than super cars? i can understand something like that for RPU but 170mph in your average patrol vehicle stands out as a rather significant change to me.

We are aware of the issue and are taking steps to fix the car. Its not like we requested a Advanced driver car that does 170 mph. This is not permanent

 

[Scott1994_]

They perm death thing is a big no sorry because people here have been working on their chars for years and for that to be taken away for too much realism would put people off the game. As for pretty much everything else i agree police are OP. Crims are dying off. I have seen so many gangs come and go and its just too hard and takes too much time to start a new gang. The beef RP silly on why Wars start. And once a gang hates another gang they always start for silly reasons and twitter gets spammed.

I have seen so many gang members just make new chars and join police. I know a lot of work has been put into trying to make crim life better but the non whitelisted gang cap didnt help. NHS is now booming, Police is true booming, so I would love to see gang/crim life worked on a lot more now as that is the majority of the server.

I would disagree police are OP and too aggressive tbh, Soon as you gangs start shooting each other as a lass is dating someone else, technically police should be turning up and getting involved every time and clearing it by asking to move and if you don't making you but i have seen police ignore gun fights between gangs,

Could we not say Lost are OP? There loads of you and if you accidentally knock one of you of your bikes, you shoot civs or police. I don't see police arresting or shooting every time someone rams us.

I disagree that police are OP as they loose some as well, we even had grove members moaning about police this week when they took the police out. Police should also have a little op as they have everything they need at there disposal to sort crime, so if police loose it means gangs have out smarted them. The police should win most of the time because of the equipment they have. i agree there is more maybe that gangs could do to improve RP and have more to do than shoot each other but police are not the issue.

You could all have turfs where you can expand it and compete for squares and in some of these squares are special things like benches, drugs weapons , heist items and if you own that square people can attack you for it or RP with you to have some. there options to help RP but police is not a issue. Police are just here to end shooting and stop us getting kidnapped, maybe if we Rp'ed more with police and spoke instead of trying to kidnap items, they'd maybe less aggressive. I think the mentality of RP needs to change. Let's create stories

 

[Atlas]

The front line komodas perform better than super cars? i can understand something like that for RPU but 170mph in your average patrol vehicle stands out as a rather significant change to me.

Just for everyone's awareness and transparency - This has been highlighted and reported to the dev team, we're looking at options to put a temporary fix in place for now as we know this is way too much. Only the Interceptors should be able to do that sort of speed and we have quite strict limits on those.