Rules Feedback

[John Woll]

The problems I see that people have with this rule is they literally cba to send a message in roleplay incase they get shot? I mean Police and UNMC have loads of people I'm sure one guy can take cover and send an announcement, whit-listed faction should go that extra mile to send a message and provide something other than just getting shot straight away out the air. 

The idea is good but it doesn't work at in practice, I went on patrol with SGT @anders today, a Taru was flying 300m+ above the Altis Metal Exports. I had to stop talking to the civilians and let Anders alone speak to everyone to sent an ATC. (Only two of us in a Kilo Romeo 1 patrol, no units were around due to a firefight in Athira, there were 4+ civilians with rifles out) I had to stop what I was doing, I was unable to move and speak as I was writing the ATC.  Only to have the Taru land nearly ontop of us seconds after I sent it, take off with 2 of the civilians in the back before it replied "Leaving" if you expect the whitelisted factions to put in the effort to write an ATC and people won't even respond by just landing anyhow it has no use. 

The warning shot system was fine, tracers to the front and back as a warning to 'fly off or you will be forcefully disabled' with enough time to comply and even another set of warning shots after that. I've been in the Police for over a year and I have never seen someone fire a set of warning shots and then instantly begin shooting at the helicopter with no time for the pilot to even move. Several warning shots are always issued before the engine / tailrotor will be disabled the Police and UNMC have always done so. ATC's are usually used when a NPAS helicopter is chasing after another heli where messages such as 'This is Mike Hotel to Blue and White Orca hovering above Lakka. Divert to NPAS and land at once! We will escort you there, failure to comply will result in your helicopter being disabled. How copy over?' were sent by people on the benches. 

 

[Curley]

C'mon ATC announcement was introduced to speak to the helicopters who you could not contact by any form nor direct chat, i.e 200m in the air ect ect. doesn't mean you have to send an ATC when the helicopter is 2m from the ground...

I would like to agree with this however you are unable to offer compliance or initiate to a person in a helicopter which is fully spun up. If you shout to them saying "Please turn the engine off, or we will disable your helicopter." You are unable to speak with them on direct chat due to how loud the helicopter actually is and can't confirm that they heard it. Then if you shoot down the helicopter you can be accused as RDMing, especially if the rebel sees it as a threat to life and then jumps out and shoots at you for disabling their helicopter with gunfire. 

(Also pretty sure this has been done by rebels in the past who speak to a fully spun up helicopter threatening to kill them. They shoot after waiting then have been banned for RDM.)

Unfortunately @Drew i've got to disagree with this comment.

I do however see no issue with white-listed factions using the ATC system, personally i like it and it is a very clear system!

 

[Rossss]

The problems I see that people have with this rule is they literally cba to send a message in roleplay incase they get shot? I mean Police and UNMC have loads of people I'm sure one guy can take cover and send an announcement, whit-listed faction should go that extra mile to send a message and provide something other than just getting shot straight away out the air. 

Question for you though - Why are police not allowed to issue warning shots which are much easier to do in a gunfight? As i'm sure you know there aren't loads of police at the start of a gunfight usually and it is hard to spare one. Why are there different methods? 

If rebels can tell a heli to leave via warning shots (no roleplay) then I will send a message with the minimal amount of info needed as it takes less time. Seems fair to me.

 

[Lemmen]

Question for you though - Why are police not allowed to issue warning shots which are much easier to do in a gunfight? As i'm sure you know there aren't loads of police at the start of a gunfight usually and it is hard to spare one. Why are there different methods? 

If rebels can tell a heli to leave via warning shots (no roleplay) then I will send a message with the minimal amount of info needed as it takes less time. Seems fair to me.

"heli above kavala dealer, out or dead"

 

[Mecidon]

(6.0.1) - You must not abuse the boundaries of any marked zone on the map. Using the boundary to troll or temporarily gain protection is forbidden.

Just because I am slow I have to ask for the sake of clarification.

Three scenarios;

1, Police know that they are being shot at but still retreats into the bluezone witihn ~3min after the last shot / Police are chased when having a hostage, but still drives into the bluezone to safely hold the hostage. These are rulebreaks now?

2, Police have a hostage inside the NPAS bluezone that they brought there after the current gunfight had ended, UNMC/ rebels show up at the bluezone to negotiate. Police are standing at the edge of the bluezone and are acting up, being cocky and threaten UNMC personel or rebels.

Is this forbidden or can a fight be started after an initiation saying something along the lines of: "Mind your attitude or you will get a bullet between your eyes" (mild choice of words). Or do I simply have to // them something about abusing their invisible wall?

3, I couldn't find the video but when an officer who I shall not name tazed McTavish (@scott1sh) after stepping out of the zone, tazing him, stepping back in and then getting scottish banned for it when he and the rest of us shot back.

Obviously they can bring a hostage into the bluezone when a gunfight have been over for 3+ min at least and they are not being visible chased.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Regarding the helicopter rules I believe there also needs to be some clarification on whether once a helicopter is being shot at for the sake of disabling it once all other procedures have been put through whether that counts as full initiation to start a gun fight, this is because I have had instances where I have gone to disable a helicopter purely for the sake of talking to the individual for them to then get out and just instantly shoot me without giving me any chance to try and start some form of roleplay with them. 

 

[The Fiddler]

Regarding the helicopter rules I believe there also needs to be some clarification on whether once a helicopter is being shot at for the sake of disabling it once all other procedures have been put through whether that counts as full initiation to start a gun fight, this is because I have had instances where I have gone to disable a helicopter purely for the sake of talking to the individual for them to then get out and just instantly shoot me without giving me any chance to try and start some form of roleplay with them. 

(3.7) Baiting - Baiting for the sake of a gunfight is not roleplay. Punishment is a ban. Examples: Flying over someone with a chopper waiting for warning shots to instantly shoot them back, robbing a service station with the intent of a gunfight, etc.

This might help your question, I'm pretty sure that also counts for when you disable a helicopter and them landing and then starting shooting, could be wrong though.

 

[BennyBait]

Just because I am slow I have to ask for the sake of clarification.

Three scenarios;

1, Police know that they are being shot at but still retreats into the bluezone witihn ~3min after the last shot / Police are chased when having a hostage, but still drives into the bluezone to safely hold the hostage. These are rulebreaks now?

2, Police have a hostage inside the NPAS bluezone that they brought there after the current gunfight had ended, UNMC/ rebels show up at the bluezone to negotiate. Police are standing at the edge of the bluezone and are acting up, being cocky and threaten UNMC personel or rebels.

Is this forbidden or can a fight be started after an initiation saying something along the lines of: "Mind your attitude or you will get a bullet between your eyes" (mild choice of words). Or do I simply have to // them something about abusing their invisible wall?

3, I couldn't find the video but when an officer who I shall not name tazed McTavish (@scott1sh) after stepping out of the zone, tazing him, stepping back in and then getting scottish banned for it when he and the rest of us shot back.

Obviously they can bring a hostage into the bluezone when a gunfight have been over for 3+ min at least and they are not being visible chased.

Thanks in advance.

Think it's to do with red zones mainly not blue zones.

 

[Cloud Strife]

(3.7) Baiting - Baiting for the sake of a gunfight is not roleplay. Punishment is a ban. Examples: Flying over someone with a chopper waiting for warning shots to instantly shoot them back, robbing a service station with the intent of a gunfight, etc.

This might help your question, I'm pretty sure that also counts for when you disable a helicopter and them landing and then starting shooting, could be wrong though.

I understand we have this rule but the clarification I'm wanting is whether once a helicopter is being disabled initiation has begun and rebels or whoever are allowed to start just shooting because I believe that just has no RP element to it and should be classed as RDM especially if it's the police or the UNMC disabling your helicopter with the intent to just talk or arrest which is true in most cases. The only case I believe someone should be able to get out and shoot is if a gunfight is already happening and a helicopter is being disabled as it is believed to be involved in the fight somehow.

 

[Hannah Montana]

I'm going to start this topic off by suggesting a change to the the rule about initiating on helicopters , the rule I want to talk about is below . 

(3.8.2) As any other party: Warning shots must be issued with 3 tracer rounds past the front and rear of the aircraft. 2 minutes should be given to comply before taking action.

There is a lot of flaws in this rule as it makes no sense whatsoever and i'm now going to list my points below why it makes no sense . 

Warning shots are not initiation so as this rules stands it makes no sense , I can stay in the air for as long as i want in theory because you cannot shoot at me or my helicopter otherwise this would be RDM . 

ATC messages cannot be used to issue threats to engage air vehicles as you cannot initiate via text .

Now a few people are going to say well if you stay in the air you're baiting for a gunfight , which i can understand and fair enough but this is the reason why the rule need to be changed , I would also like to see a change to this rule regarding helicopters who then decide to ignore you're warning shots and proceed to land , In my eyes if you're being WARNED and emphasis being on warned the people giving the warning shots do not wish you to land for a chat and if they do so this is seen as a threat and engagement should be allowed as the warning to leave was not followed . 

What i suggest the rule should state is as follows . 

Warning shots must be issued with 3 tracer rounds past the front and rear of the aircraft. 1 minutes should be given to comply before you or you're vehicle is disabled

If you Proceed to land after warning shoots you may be shot upon as you have decided to land after you were asked to leave by warning shots being issued . 

 

[YoCo]

Just because I am slow I have to ask for the sake of clarification.

Three scenarios;

1, Police know that they are being shot at but still retreats into the bluezone witihn ~3min after the last shot / Police are chased when having a hostage, but still drives into the bluezone to safely hold the hostage. These are rulebreaks now?

2, Police have a hostage inside the NPAS bluezone that they brought there after the current gunfight had ended, UNMC/ rebels show up at the bluezone to negotiate. Police are standing at the edge of the bluezone and are acting up, being cocky and threaten UNMC personel or rebels.

Is this forbidden or can a fight be started after an initiation saying something along the lines of: "Mind your attitude or you will get a bullet between your eyes" (mild choice of words). Or do I simply have to // them something about abusing their invisible wall?

3, I couldn't find the video but when an officer who I shall not name tazed McTavish (@scott1sh) after stepping out of the zone, tazing him, stepping back in and then getting scottish banned for it when he and the rest of us shot back.

Obviously they can bring a hostage into the bluezone when a gunfight have been over for 3+ min at least and they are not being visible chased.

Thanks in advance.

3. Name me

I hope the new rules apply to everyone in regards to abusing zones. I think the zones should only offer protection to 'non on-going' scenarios. to prevent people (of all factions) fleeing to them, or using them as an invisible wall to act differently to how they would normally act. 

But it also protects those wishing to just relax and roleplay (greenzone) or cops who have just spawned in/processing a criminal after the imminent danger (5 minutes) has passed (bluezone)

 

[Gretalian]

I'm going to start this topic off by suggesting a change to the the rule about initiating on helicopters , the rule I want to talk about is below . 

(3.8.2) As any other party: Warning shots must be issued with 3 tracer rounds past the front and rear of the aircraft. 2 minutes should be given to comply before taking action.

There is a lot of flaws in this rule as it makes no sense whatsoever and i'm now going to list my points below why it makes no sense . 

Warning shots are not initiation so as this rules stands it makes no sense , I can stay in the air for as long as i want in theory because you cannot shoot at me or my helicopter otherwise this would be RDM . 

ATC messages cannot be used to issue threats to engage air vehicles as you cannot initiate via text .

Now a few people are going to say well if you stay in the air you're baiting for a gunfight , which i can understand and fair enough but this is the reason why the rule need to be changed , I would also like to see a change to this rule regarding helicopters who then decide to ignore you're warning shots and proceed to land , In my eyes if you're being WARNED and emphasis being on warned the people giving the warning shots do not wish you to land for a chat and if they do so this is seen as a threat and engagement should be allowed as the warning to leave was not followed . 

What i suggest the rule should state is as follows . 

Warning shots must be issued with 3 tracer rounds past the front and rear of the aircraft. 1 minutes should be given to comply before you or you're vehicle is disabled

If you Proceed to land after warning shoots you may be shot upon as you have decided to land after you were asked to leave by warning shots being issued . 

I agree this rule creates a very VERY haZy grey area that is interpreted very differently and different scenarios can change it as well. And I agree a landing heli should be seen as a threat. But changing the rule to what you state will stop any possibility of people in a heli being able to RP. For instance, a group is breaking into a gang base and the alarm sounds for that gang. They respond in a heli and immediately get warning shots. How does the gang now respond with RP if they will be shot as soon as they land?

Again, I agree that the rule is very interpretive to each opinion and needs to be more defined but it is a very delicate rule to implement. 

 

[James Travers]

(4.4) If you are restrained and communications have been removed you must not be active on any other forms of communications other than direct chat. (Punishment is a ban)

Can I suggest adding vehicle channel? 

It means speaking directly in chat and not using 3d party things like TeamSpeak, discord, at etc. Direct communication includes vehicle and direct chat. Group chat would be considered as availing of a communications device. Hope that patched things up!

I understand we have this rule but the clarification I'm wanting is whether once a helicopter is being disabled initiation has begun and rebels or whoever are allowed to start just shooting because I believe that just has no RP element to it and should be classed as RDM especially if it's the police or the UNMC disabling your helicopter with the intent to just talk or arrest which is true in most cases. The only case I believe someone should be able to get out and shoot is if a gunfight is already happening and a helicopter is being disabled as it is believed to be involved in the fight somehow.

If a helicopter is being disabled, more than likely it is done in a gunfight with the intentions to neutralize the pilot. If however, you was trying to simply disabled it you will still need to use some form or a firearm. When bullets start getting sprayed at your vehicle, there is a chance that the driver or pilot may be hit, injured or maybe even killed because of it, this means that it is a clear threat to your life. Due to this you are able to shoot back as your life has been endangered. (This is only relevant to shoot at tires, helis, people and of course initiation in which your life is on the line) Hope I patched this up for you!

 

[RuneRune]

Thanks! Also got told so by Busterguy on.

 

[Vlad Vodka]

Id like to suggest a rule, something along these lines dont know how to properly word it " x.x.x When in an active firefight you may shoot people out their vehicles if they seem involved (EG. Driving circles around you etc) involved meaning giving out info/trying to sneak up on you and killing you quickly. If the person is shot but turns out to be not involved the person who shot him has to give full compensation if not shooter will receive a ban"

I'd like to hear some feedback

 

[Gretalian]

Id like to suggest a rule, something along these lines dont know how to properly word it " x.x.x When in an active firefight you may shoot people out their vehicles if they seem involved (EG. Driving circles around you etc) involved meaning giving out info/trying to sneak up on you and killing you quickly. If the person is shot but turns out to be not involved the person who shot him has to give full compensation if not shooter will receive a ban"

I'd like to hear some feedback

You should have to initiate on tires first in a way to directly notify them that they will be attacked if they do not leave the area. Then a 10 second countdown because more than 10 and they are not valuing life. 

 

[Daniel 2sec]

Id like to suggest a rule, something along these lines dont know how to properly word it " x.x.x When in an active firefight you may shoot people out their vehicles if they seem involved (EG. Driving circles around you etc) involved meaning giving out info/trying to sneak up on you and killing you quickly. If the person is shot but turns out to be not involved the person who shot him has to give full compensation if not shooter will receive a ban"

I'd like to hear some feedback

This should be in place. People are following gunfights and then cry because they get shot. Stop ruleplaying guys, start roleplaying.

 

[James Travers]

Id like to suggest a rule, something along these lines dont know how to properly word it " x.x.x When in an active firefight you may shoot people out their vehicles if they seem involved (EG. Driving circles around you etc) involved meaning giving out info/trying to sneak up on you and killing you quickly. If the person is shot but turns out to be not involved the person who shot him has to give full compensation if not shooter will receive a ban"

I'd like to hear some feedback

Or, simply initiate on the vehicle and if it doesn't leave shoot it. Usually if I'm in a gunfight and there's a vehicle circling me I initiate with something like "Driver you are driving within an active gunfight, leave the area or you may be considered as a hostile and you may be neutralized with lethal force". 

About having to pay comp or get a ban, I mean, your just gonna get people who were involved in the gunfight lying and asking for comp simply because there is no way of proving that they were 100% involved when they haven't started shooting, or initiating.

 

[angellfall]

It means speaking directly in chat and not using 3d party things like TeamSpeak, discord, at etc. Direct communication includes vehicle and direct chat. Group chat would be considered as availing of a communications device. Hope that patched things up!

If a helicopter is being disabled, more than likely it is done in a gunfight with the intentions to neutralize the pilot. If however, you was trying to simply disabled it you will still need to use some form or a firearm. When bullets start getting sprayed at your vehicle, there is a chance that the driver or pilot may be hit, injured or maybe even killed because of it, this means that it is a clear threat to your life. Due to this you are able to shoot back as your life has been endangered. (This is only relevant to shoot at tires, helis, people and of course initiation in which your life is on the line) Hope I patched this up for you!

Actually currently there is no such a consept in rules as threath to ur life. Situation what you described here is actually agaist the rules. If one is to decamp from vehicle after his tires has been initiated then shoot at someone that would be rdm. As killing someone without good enough rp is considered rdm/poorrp by the rules. Now if what you said woud be true, surely the one shooting the tires would be able to shoot at the guy hopping out from the vehicle with a firearm?

 

[James Travers]

Actually currently there is no such a consept in rules as threath to ur life. Situation what you described here is actually agaist the rules. If one is to decamp from vehicle after his tires has been initiated then shoot at someone that would be rdm. As killing someone without good enough rp is considered rdm/poorrp by the rules. Now if what you said woud be true, surely the one shooting the tires would be able to shoot at the guy hopping out from the vehicle with a firearm?

That, is incorrect. Once your tires are shot at, it is a threat to your life. If you INITIATE on tires they cannot shoot back, but as soon as you start spraying at the vehicle you can be shot. So what do you do when you on as a cop and someone starts shooting at your vehicle, get out and initiate?