Report a player - Unknown - GTA RP

[Andrew Wyatt]

Report a player 

Your In-game Name: Andrew Wyatt

Name and/or ID of the player(s) you are reporting: Unknown

Which server did the incident take place on: GTA RP

Date of the incident: 02/20/24

Time of the incident (GMT) 24hr Format: 2213

What best describes this incident ?: RDM

Please (in detail) describe the incident: Police were alerted to a situation involving a G6 officer and The Lost/Charles CottonEye which was on-going for a while earlier in the evening. From what I understand police were not really directly involved other than getting Shepherd Kingston (the G6 officer) into Mission Row for their safety. Some time had passed and the situation had seemed to have simmered down. A bomb threat was then declared inside Mission Row police station which meant that most firearm officers (not that many were on duty anyway) were dealing with that. I was part of a three man UC CID patrol was going around just checking out the situation at G6 amongst other things. After deciding to do a check at G6 HQ to make sure everything was okay we spotted Charles CottonEye alone, at the front door of the G6 HQ. After some deliberating we decided to attempt an arrest due to the fact a warrant was out for his arrest. Upon approaching Charles to arrest him all three CID officers were shot without any warning or interaction from across the street by unknown individuals.

I'm not reporting Charles in this report, although it is somewhat disappointing that no attempt was made to talk to us only the fact the he seemed to get on radio and order the shooting to start. The only very brief RP interaction we as police had with anyone not G6 as part of this entire incident was a good 45 minutes plus earlier when our UC car was followed by blacked out vehicles we suspect were part of this situation and as part of that pursuit we were rammed several times with no RP interaction, but I will concede it may have been desync so I'm willing to give the benefit of doubt there.

I also want to make it clear that we had no idea individuals were in position across the road covering Charles, had we been no arrest attempt would've been made.

I'll also freely state I've made no attempt to "resolve" this situation, I really don't see the point.

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot):



https://youtu.be/oOlXOfju8aU



This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!: Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting: No

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans): Yes

 

[JackJohnson]

I didn't expect to get reported for this situation honestly, there was nothing in OOC about it or anything? Would have been nice to have a chat in liaison about it beforehand either way but I'll reply all the same. I don't think it was myself that actually downed you, however I was involved and shooting at your group all the same. 

If you wish, I can share clips in liaison with you that will show the ongoing situation and the incredibly unfortunately timing that you came round that corner, was this was when a gunfight had just about start which lead us to believe you were arresting Charles for that (the warrant I guess is because of what led to us being there). 

As you've said yourself Police were alerted to an situation between G6 and the Lost, you left the situation and then returned after a bomb threat and it was still ongoing. It's unfortunate that you decided to get involved in the situation without making any attempts to find out what's going, but that's not something we can control or should be punished for. Their had already been plenty roleplay between the people involved, even listening to your own radio in the clip it's clear the situation is still ongoing and there is hostility from both sides - you said yourself "This can only go badly" and "I suggest we get out of here now", but then decided to get involved anyway Andrew which resulted in what you can see at the end of the clip. 

Even if you listen to the radio, which you clearly were as you swapped freq to continue listening, you can clearly tell there has already been things ongoing and roleplay involved in it. There was nothing random about this entire situation, it may seem random to you because you came along at the very end and involved yourself, but honestly it only seems like this to you because you made no attempts at all to find out what was actually going on. 

I'm going to quote the below linked report Andrew, as I believe the factors involved are quite similar - Police Officer was shot without knowledge of a situation and this situation remarks closely to what Bowen said on that report "it does look random and that's a downside of being part of a large group like the police. Especially when you log on and something is already on going without your knowledge." However, similarly to that report when you got involved in the situation the only other thing we could have done was "initiate" on every person that got involved from start to finish & on that reply from Bowen he made it quite clear that isn't what staff want as it's boring - "the only way to have stopped this being the case is to have to go around and "initiate" (Jesus that word gives me the creeps...) On every cop all of the time, which I'm sure you would agree is pretty boring rp.". Apologies if you feel hard done by here, but there was very clearly ongoing hostile RP and we aren't required to "initiate" on every person involved, especially when your group are pointing several guns at our members.





Apologies if you feel hard done by here, but there was very clearly ongoing hostile RP and we aren't required to "initiate" on every person involved, especially when your group are pointing several guns at our members. There was even a recent report where a staff member didn't take any action against members of a group defending their members - which in this case you have pointed several guns at a high ranking member of the Lost. There was previous RP, and of course (within server rules) we are going to defend him. 





I'm still more than willing to talk to you in a liaison about this, I can show you some clips that show more details of the RP and answer any questions you might have, but I don't believe this is random at all. Maybe @Shepherd Kingstonor @Samuel Shirewill even have some input to confirm there was RP ongoing that you unfortunately stepped into the middle of. If you'd like to chat about it just let me know. 
 

 

[Donny]

Hi Andrew,

Hope you're well. I am one of the people involved in this report alongside what will be circa 7 or 8 others I believe.

I want to start off by saying it's completely fair that you don't want to discuss things in a liaison, it's something I have practiced on previous reports when of the same opinion as yourself but it's honestly something I believe would have been resolved via a liaison having had a discussion on either side of the argument. I'm sure on our side we are all open to a discussion if that's something you would like to do later on.

I'm going to try and keep my reply short and sweet.

From what I can see from what you wrote on the report and your video you were aware of the situation between lost and sheperd. You say the situation died down but this is abundantly not the case by using a G6 officer soon after as a hostage to try and get information on G6 and sheperd. Sheperd also made a couple of calls to Charles during this situation and continued to post on tweedle. You as one of the investigating officers of the lost having dealt with us on many many occasions both in shootouts, arrests and having been taken hostage know that the characters do not just drop grudges and move on. This situation was clearly still ongoing by the fact we still had G6 hostage and that was communicated to you via radio up until the very end.

Charles turned up outside of G6 unarmed which he told Sam at the front of the G6 HQ, which he again communicated to everyone via radio. When you realised it was Charles I can hear the excitement in your voice and why not. However you yourself even said that you shouldnt try and detain him. Fully aware of the possible repercussions of going up against the most heavily armed group in the server and that you tried your best to get firearms officers down to deal with what was a very very obvious threat.

You talk about going to speak and pat down Charles rather than handcuff him. Again knowing the threat, saying that this will go badly and deciding to do it without the necessary backup (also with the information from G6 and your own knowledge). Then you show the opposite of your intentions by going in all guns pointed and the only assumption left is that Charles is going to be arrested before you even choose to speak to him, again knowing all the information about a hostage and numbers instead of possibly taking the opinion of its a hostage discussion. Which again was obvious by what Sam was saying about trying to get Dave G6 back. It's almost like you have chosen to overlook the fact that Charles would very obviously not be alone in that situation.

Regularly the lost get their thanks in both DMs and OOC messages about the RP provided from the smallest situations to kill people off. This included Dave saying thanks in OOC today. Had you chosen to follow the obvious lines of enquiry which I've seen you and other police do previously instead of getting overly excited and clearly jumping the gun you may very well have had a different outcome today. The lost don't want gunplay, it doesn't fit into the remit of what we want to do. However, we will use what we have when we need to (even use some of the exclusive weapons we have available as a fraction to feed information to the police), especially when trying to continue an RP situation with someone whom Charles has had years of previous history with.

I honestly think it's naive to think with all that was going on that you wouldn't have expected something like this to happen, quite obviously highlighted by the comments you made in the video and the hours and hours of interaction you have had with the lost it was a very real possibility. 

 

[Samuel Shire]

I can see that I have been tagged, tbf I assumed all the police had gone to mrps with the bomb threats and as I knew the lost had Dave I decided to try and negotiate to get him back, not exactly in my job description but I know the lost fellas can be rather reasonable unless truly pissed off

Ofcourse Charles turned up tho he did take like 10 mins to do so after out call so I had a assumption that he had prepared something, surprised by the mention he was unarmed but he also was willing to let me pat him down so I in my mid was sure he had something or someone's positioned around the place, I mean he would be daft not to and the lost are very tight knit so they would never let someone like him wander off alone

It was also why I was asking Sheppard to put his gun away on the radio as I diden't want him walking out and doing something like aim it then get us shot by a hidden party but I decided not to say that on the radio as to not upset Charles and possibly endanger Dave's life ( even tho he tells me it was very fun playing I spy )

I can see why Andrew and the other 2 officers would be upset don't get me wrong it was a attack where nobody was directly warned they could be shot, I personally thought it was a shame we got shot but like I say I expected a hidden shooter somewhere

I don't recall anything in ooc other than me saying something like

"Aww Why'd you have to shoot me before I got a chance to parlay" for the safety of the downed officers and Dave, yea it felt like it kinda got cut short but sometimes that happens

Im trying not to really seem like I'm taking one side or the other here as I had logged on in the middle of all this and got filled in then found out Dave was taken so called Charles to ask for a return of dave, as G6 is private security I was more concerned getting the safe return of one of ours not the detainment of Charles, it just seems to have became abit messy all-round unfortunately

 

[Jesse]

Hi all, I was one of the firearms units that was occupied with the bomb threat so I was not involved to this part of the situation but prior to this (5-10 minutes) most firearms units had been actively trying to arrest members of the Lost due to them kidnapping another police officer which they wanted to trade for a g6 member. This also resulted in a (failed) hardstop on one of them not long before you went back to G6 HQ and we diverted to MRPD for the bomb threat.

So from my POV there already was conflict between Police and Lost albeit it hadn't escalated to a full on shoot out between the 2 groups though you might not have known about this if you were not on frequency.

 

[JackJohnson]

@Andrew WyattAs you can see from peoples comments here including one of the Police themselves, there was already an ongoing situation you stepped into the middle of. 

If you’d like to discuss it in liaison let me know

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

Hi fellas,

I appreciate the time you've all taken to write your replies. I want to start off by stating that my motivation for raising this report isn't to get anyone banned or "punished" in any way.

Quite often in our police meetings, which I'm sure Donny and any other Lost member who has a police character can confirm, we are asked to report situations where we are given poor roleplay because as a faction/group we are, quite rightly, held to a higher standard - I believe this encounter is one that qualifies that. I fully recognise that a situation was already ongoing (stated in initial report). I wasn't aware that Lost members had had interactions with the police, and I fully believed Charles was alone at the G6 HQ otherwise I wouldn't have agreed to an attempt to arrest - before I decided to raise the report I even watched my clip back several times to see if I'd missed any sign of people on the roof top across the road, there is none.

Like the police The Lost are another recognised faction (or whatever the correct term is) and as such should also be held to the same standard. We were given ZERO roleplay outside of being mown down by automatic gunfire. We were given ZERO interaction after we were downed other than being "vultered" for our phones, radios and bodycams. I would agree that I've had many good and indeed fun interactions with The Lost but these are usually sadly after shots have been already fired and they are behind bars or in cuffs rather than before.

 A common thing that's stated by members of gangs and it's being alluded to in the replies above is that of police must fear/respect them but that's something that rarely seems to be reciprocated toward the police. Maybe it's a bit of sub-conscious meta gaming because people know we have rules to follow, maybe it's a bit of ego, probably some of both. In the replies someone mentions "your group pointing guns toward [Charles]" but I assume you knew we were police, no has tried to claim they didn't so far, so the only threat to his life would've been from his own actions, it wasn't like we were some baldy group intending to rob/dump him. From the clip it looks like your group opening fire almost "killed" him anyway . I'm not sure what rationale there is to saving your gang member from a simple arrest/bit of time in jail to being investigated for the murder of 3 police officers - it doesn't make any sense. I'm also not sure on why you decided to shoot the G6 guy who posed absolutely no threat to you and was only trying to give us medical aid.

As an avid reader of reports (mainly for my own amusement ) I've seen it mentioned by staff on many many occassions where bans were issued (again, this is not particulalrly what I'm looking for here) stating that roleplay was ended because players decided to open fire rather than use more creative/enjoyable for everyone. I believe that this situation could've been handled quite differently, you decided to take the easy route of holding right mouse button, position aim, hold left mouse button. I don't expect that you are required to "initiate" on every single police officer and I accept that you had your own roleplay thing ongoing with G6 but I'd also argue that I shouldn't be expected to know the details of that or know that you, as The Lost and the others that were there - I'm certain not everyone was Lost - had planned between yourselves.

I'll end with this summary: in my opinion, although this "interaction" wasn't entirely random so maybe "RDM" isn't the best way to describe it, it was still incredibly poor.

 

[Donny]

I appreciate the time you've all taken to write your replies. I want to start off by stating that my motivation for raising this report isn't to get anyone banned or "punished" in any way.

Then why didnt you liaise?

fully believed Charles was alone at the G6 HQ otherwise

Which I doubt due to how you spoke about the situation going. Again being naive about the situation.

The Lost but these are usually sadly after shots have been already fired and they are behind bars or in cuffs rather than befor

The onus of this doesn't just sit with the lost, it also lies on the nvl we have seen multiple times with police when trying to carry out hostage situations and police turning up guns blazing. Its like for like and was discussed in great detail during the height of the lost vs police. This is exemplified in your report because you knew there was a hostage situation going on and every other time the police have dealt with them they look to negotiate rather than go guns out looking for a quick arrest. If anything that shows your own win mentality to the whole situation. People would rather save their bullets and have fun interesting scenes rather than have them shut down which is exactly what your actions lead to. If you cant realise that and that you were naive in your own thought process about no one else being there that lies on you. You knew he wouldn't be alone. Rather than staying and getting in a further firefight, charles was recovered, you live for another day and have the chance to bring further things to court if CID actually ever get around to doing it.

A common thing that's stated by members of gangs and it's being alluded to in the replies above is that of police must fear/respect them but that's something that rarely seems to be reciprocated toward the police

Lost have great fear of the police, which is why we left ASAP trying to remove evidence as much as possible from the scene. We arent interested in robbing or dumping you, cant even remember the last time the lost dumped a cop apart from cullen for specific reasons.

I'm not sure what rationale there is to saving your gang member from a simple arrest/bit of time in jail to being investigated for the murder of 3 police officers

Hes not a gang member and the mentality which everyone else seems to understand is that hes the president of a well established MC who was also in the middle of a scene which you could have taken part in as CID. Instead you act like AFOs trying to carry out an armed intervention after you say its going to go to shit and kill circa 1 and a half hours of RP. The onus of your actions lie on you, if you didnt take time to understand the situation that lies on you. You had plenty oppurtunity to do so. Again going for what you thought would be a quick win which hasn't happened before.

I'm also not sure on why you decided to shoot the G6 guy who posed absolutely no threat to you and was only trying to give us medical aid.

Because he was warned to stop trying to give medical before we left and he kept trying it.

stating that roleplay was ended because players decided to open fire rather than use more creative/enjoyable for everyone

Same could be said about you running in with guns out to what was an apparent hostage discussion to go an arrest someone because you "thought" they were alone.

t I shouldn't be expected to know the details of that or know that you

I mean he was in full kutte and you were told by Sam who knew it was lost had taken one of the G6 officers. no ones asking you to know the full situation. you havent even bothered to understand the fundamental basics.

I'll end with this summary: in my opinion, although this "interaction" wasn't entirely random so maybe "RDM" isn't the best way to describe it, it was still incredibly poor.

And our discussions about what you did were the same. Shutting down what would have been a good situation for a cheap win because you thought you had it even though you have more experience and are smarter than that. You know lost members will never roll alone especially in situations like this and again you blame your lack of effort in understanding the situation or applying any of your preexisting knowledge on poor RP.

You also complain about not having any interactions after but within 2 minutes there was a police heli above (trying to catch some frags with no backup available on the ground) to scare us off.

Frankly your report is nonsense. You and the rest of CID there got overly excited. You didn't even bother to ask what was going on even though information was being readily shared and you walked yourself into a trap where multiple other police and civs would have known it would be the case. Its naive to think this is poor RP, yeh we didn't want to shoot. You didn't even give us an alternative.

 

[Ferkis]

Hi guys, 

I will reply to this as my character Mike Raffone was involved with the 2 ish hour stand-off with G6 and the Lost Mc.

I'll keep it short as I was not too much involved but was present at the scene of the shooting and was inside with Shepherd when they where there, can try add some context. 

The police tried making an arrest on THE PRESIDENT OF THE LOST MC (The most prolific MC in Los Santos) , over the situation where Charles had took a shotgun out of his pants and shot Shepherd and thus getting a warrant.

Charles and Shepherd I believe have had a feud over a couple of years don't really know the ins and outs but its hostile as demonstrated yesterday, Charles turned up to the HQ "By himself" Does not take a genius to work out he was not on solo, multiple blacked out local cars driving round with unidentifiable people inside wearing masks and what not some even coming up to the HQ brandishing firearms.

https://imgur.com/a/6ythj1D

There was an obvious sense of danger outside the HQ be it the blacked out cars driving around, the previous shotgun wielding arrest warranted Lost MC president Charles Cotton eye standing there again "by himself" the police attempting that arrest was stupid and was only going to end up in tears. 

All things considered, I don't think this was RDM just simply the police made a wrong decision attempting to arrest such a high value target at that scene specifically.

"You didn't even bother to ask what was going on even though information was being readily shared and you walked yourself into a trap where multiple other police and civs would have known it would be the case. Its naive to think this is poor RP, yeh we didn't want to shoot."  DId only just see this by @Donnythink this just sums it up quite well,

P.S Was a good bit of RP last night was a laugh, thanks for bringing Dave back as well!

 

[JackJohnson]

This is the last time I'll reply (unless staff ask for something) because I don't want to writing pages and pages that a staff member will have to read, especially with someone who is clearly unwilling to take in a liaison about the issue. 

As you can see from everyone other than yourself @Andrew Wyattthat has commented so far, there was very clearly an ongoing hostile situation happening - people were talking about it on your frequency and had you to attempted to gather any kind of information beforehand you would have known the situation and probably wouldn't have done what you done. Unfortunately it's not within my control to make sure you know details before you involve yourself, I can't control that. What I will do is link this clip, everyone has stated so far they knew we were looking for Shepherd, well here's the clip right before you came charging round the corner. As you can clearly see, he presented a gun, Charles told us it was him and it was at this moment you swarmed him with guns - of course we helped him, whether the timing is coincidental or not, it 100% isn't random. 

 https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/1WENfQJX6O4r3Z/d1337Ym1GGdU?invite=cr-MSxicHQsMjMyNzA0NDgs

I assume you knew we were police, no has tried to claim they didn't so far, so the only threat to his life would've been from his own actions

It's very simple, this might be an assumption but that doesn't mean everyone makes that assumption, especially since it's not true. We had no way of knowing your full intentions, whether that was to shoot him - it wouldn't be the first time a Police Officer has unlawfully shot someone, or has done something silly. It's roleplay, these things happen.

I'll leave this for staff to decide Andrew, because to be completely honest I don't believe you when you say you don't want us banned or whatever, if you didn't want that then you would bothered trying to speak to us and figure out what happened instead of not liaising and still now refusing my request to discuss it. The point is you had every chance to find out what was going on, you admitted yourself that you thought it would go badly, you have had plenty of interactions with Charles and the Lost including having to call the SAS because your entire Police force couldn't catch us, yet you decided to try with only 3 Officers with pistols and tasers. What I would note is that even after deciding it was a bad idea and trying to get firearms unsuccessfully, you heard G6 talking about potentially getting him in cuffs and how he was unarmed etc... but you still decided to go running in guns first instead of trying to roleplay at all. I'd honestly say this is what is incredibly poor about this situation, not our behaviour, had you attempted to roleplay at all before drawing your gun then this could have went an entirely different direction - Charles was already there having a chat with G6, there was no need for you to challenge him with guns yet that's the approach you took, therefore we reacted to it. You created your part of the situation, we just ran with it.

You can complain all you like here Andrew that we didn't try to do something "creative/enjoyable" instead of shooting - but the reason the shots started was because of your own inability to think outside the box and try to do anything different from running in there with your guns out and aiming them all at him while ignoring the situation that was already ongoing. Unfortunate you got shot Andrew, but you put yourself in a situation and made a silly decision within RP against someone you are already very aware 'out guns' you instead of playing in smart or creative. Bowen already stated on the other report that he doesn't expect "initiation" towards every person in a situation, so what you saw here is Lost MC members behaving how staff have guided us to. The roleplay was already ongoing and you ran into the middle of it with your guns out, pointing them at him. 

I'm still open to chat about this in Discord if you chance your mind, but I think you've already made it clear you have no intention to do this. 

 

[Nikolai]

since a staff member is involved in this report, it'll be dealt with by staff lead+

 

[Stuart]

If you wish, I can share clips in liaison with you that will show the ongoing situation and the incredibly unfortunately timing that you came round that corner, was this was when a gunfight had just about start which lead us to believe you were arresting Charles for that (the warrant I guess is because of what led to us being there). 

Can you please show any more clips you may have of this on going situation over the few seconds in the one above? Since I'm struggling to see any correlation here. 

 

[JackJohnson]

I’ll have a look and upload what I have later on

 

[Donny]

Can you please show any more clips you may have of this on going situation over the few seconds in the one above? Since I'm struggling to see any correlation here. 

Morning Stuart, hope your keeping well. I forgot to clip during the actual situation itself but I will ask if anyone else has clips. Hopefully we can both add some to the report soon  

I think I know what your hinting at but if I may I'm going to ask a question.

With people already commenting here on this report from the police and g6 stating that a situation was already an on going situation. Where information had been shared and was available and known by both sides how much of the onus of "initiation" and information sharing lie on the aggressing side, in this case the lost. Having played probably a couple thousand hours of cop on RPUK, been dragged by you on numerous occasions for 'win mentality' and learning and progressing from those talks one of the things I learnt to ask, which I thought was more common sense than anything is "what's going on" before jumping straight into a situation. I've made the mistake before and paid the consequences.

I know initiation isnt a thing on RPUK its set by a very different standard. However, after a situation like this where Shepherd is making remarks on tweedle, g6 are openly talking on radio about one of their own being taken by the lost which other officers understood, g6 and police able to share radio freqs, see each others panics (from first hand experience pretty much work hand in hand at times) and lost being pursued for short times away from the g6 hq I really fail to understand how much more we could have done to build that situation. Right at the very end you had 4 people who are meant to be roleplaying the Creme de la creme of UC CID officers investigating and evaluating situations who essentially say fuck it, we are going balls deep but lets banter about it because we know its going to go to shit but lets not ask any questions and lets not handcuff him but lets all run up to him pointing guns because we aren't going to restrain him? It honestly makes 0 sense. Then the next day when Charles does get arrested its when the police use their assets properly and carry out a very well planned strike (kudos to those involved it was brilliant to watch) using 4 CTSFO cars filled up to instill the fear factor and negate a response from the lost.

To be honest the way I see the whole end to the situation is bad because like I said, some people got overly excited and jumped the gun to understand what was going on to arrest someone who had committed a crime and also been in the presence of other lost members who were not with him anymore (where could they have gone?) or bother listening to what was being said on the radio which instigated a reaction which I think everyone else would have seen as clear. Im sure if Shepherd was asked the question he would have said it was a trap...

Sorry for the longer reply again but let me know if you need anything else and Ill try and get other relevant clips on to this report alongside Jacks.

 

[Samuel Shire]

I'll check but I'm not 100% sure I have anything, I know I edited a clip but medal will have destroyed the original? Unless there's a way I can get it back if there was one, but I'll check in a moment

 

[JackJohnson]

Hello, 

Since this is still an ongoing RP story and I don't want the details of it being ruined by posting it here, I have passed them on privately to staff (hope this is ok). I've also provided Stuart with more in depth details from our side of what was going on in hopes he can get a clearer picture of the RP scenario. 

Just a few things I'd like to point out as well before this is reviewed, as I still don't believe this was random, or RDM, at all. 

From what I understand police were not really directly involved other than getting Shepherd Kingston (the G6 officer) into Mission Row for their safety.

This isn't correct, from the videos I have provided to Stuart he will be able to confirm Police were very much involved and at one point even tried to arrest/detain members of the Lost directly. Whether you knew about this or not I don't know, but if not then that unfortunately comes down to poor communication within the Police which isn't something we can confirm in RP. 

Some time had passed and the situation had seemed to have simmered down

Again, this is incorrect unfortunately - whether you left the situation or not isn't really something we can count on. The Police were involved at the start and they were involved at the end. 

Upon approaching Charles to arrest him all three CID officers were shot without any warning or interaction from across the street by unknown individuals.

While I can appreciate how this might not have been the ideal outcome for you, there was Police involved in the situation already and Bowen has confirmed on the report I linked that players are not expected to initiate on every single person involved in a situation. We had already had interactions with the Police, there was a lot of roleplay had already happened at the point you attempted the arrest and it was your own decision to approach it how you did. You have claimed we weren't "creative" enough, however as you can see in your own video there was ideas floated around between yourselves, you all knew it was a bad idea and said you should leave, but then ultimately decided the best approach was to just run towards him guns pointed at him - all while you have admitted you knew there was a situation already ongoing and listening to your radio you can clearly here it was still a clearly hostile situation. 

Hi all, I was one of the firearms units that was occupied with the bomb threat so I was not involved to this part of the situation but prior to this (5-10 minutes) most firearms units had been actively trying to arrest members of the Lost due to them kidnapping another police officer which they wanted to trade for a g6 member. This also resulted in a (failed) hardstop on one of them not long before you went back to G6 HQ and we diverted to MRPD for the bomb threat.

So from my POV there already was conflict between Police and Lost albeit it hadn't escalated to a full on shoot out between the 2 groups though you might not have known about this if you were not on frequency.

This is the POV from Jesse, who was playing his Police character that night, confirming there was an active situation that the Police had been involved in. By his own words, there was already a conflict. This furthers what I have already said about this 100% not being random at all. The police were very much involved in the situation from much earlier than your clip. 

A common thing that's stated by members of gangs and it's being alluded to in the replies above is that of police must fear/respect them but that's something that rarely seems to be reciprocated toward the police. Maybe it's a bit of sub-conscious meta gaming because people know we have rules to follow, maybe it's a bit of ego, probably some of both. In the replies someone mentions "your group pointing guns toward [Charles]" but I assume you knew we were police, no has tried to claim they didn't so far, so the only threat to his life would've been from his own actions, it wasn't like we were some baldy group intending to rob/dump him.

I'll be honest Andrew, I don't really know what you mean by this. You are saying that gangs don't fear Police because of rules, and that you believe there is some meta-gaming there... but then have went on to fault us for actually fearing what you'd do to him? Of course we have a fear for his life when 3 people are pointing guns at him, especially when Shephard had already placed some kind of hit on him & when we had already been chased by Police etc... it seems like you are saying groups rule-play, but then faulting us for not rule-playing...?

As an avid reader of reports (mainly for my own amusement ) I've seen it mentioned by staff on many many occassions where bans were issued (again, this is not particulalrly what I'm looking for here) stating that roleplay was ended because players decided to open fire rather than use more creative/enjoyable for everyone. I believe that this situation could've been handled quite differently, you decided to take the easy route of holding right mouse button, position aim, hold left mouse button. I don't expect that you are required to "initiate" on every single police officer and I accept that you had your own roleplay thing ongoing with G6 but I'd also argue that I shouldn't be expected to know the details of that or know that you

Again, I'm not going to keep beating a dead horse, but exactly what you have just accused us of doing is what you done... had you been more "creative" instead of just running in guns pulled and attempted to end the situation quickly, instead of actually roleplaying a little bit with someone you have heard on radio has no gun and has offered to be searched, it could have had a very different outcome. Of course if you are stepping into the middle of what you are very aware is an active situation you are somewhat expected to know the details before you decided to run in guns drawn. I think that's just common sense honestly. 

Anyway, below is a clip from Sam Shires POV - this should be able to give you some context from the G6 POV as well. He was on the same radio freq as Andrew, they are quite clearly talking about a hostile situation. Shephard came outside waiving a gun around, ran back inside and that's exactly when the CID Officers decided to attack. I don't know whether you weren't listening to your radio or what, although I'd argue you were since you changed freq exactly when asked, but it was very evident from the radio chatter it was still ongoing. As you can see from Sams POV, it was all being RP'd out until the Officers decided running in with guns was the best approach instead of anything creative. 

https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/1WwhK2ala0RzPa/2pFB9uGGmgv8?invite=cr-MSx2S1YsMzE0MzYxODAs?mobilebypass=true

 

[Stuart]

both sides how much of the onus of "initiation"

This whole "Initiation" thing that keeps being brought up (Not just here) just reminds me of the arma days in all fairness. From the one clip above it shows there was something going on with Lost/G6 and that's it, However fluid roleplay happens that indeed can have a roll-on effect so I'm trying to get a bigger picture of the whole situation before a call is made. Rather have all the information there than only some and making a call that may or may not be unfair either way.

Since this is still an ongoing RP story and I don't want the details of it being ruined by posting it here, I have passed them on privately to staff (hope this is ok). I've also provided Stuart with more in depth details from our side of what was going on in hopes he can get a clearer picture of the RP scenario. 

Yep that's fine, I'll take a bit to review the videos you sent however if I have more questions I'll make a post and thank you by the way for sending them to me  

 

[Ferkis]

I've got a few clips of the RP before hand I can send when I am back from work, should be able to provide some context. (Was going to upload them last night, fell asleep chair )

 

[Stuart]

I've got a few clips of the RP before hand I can send when I am back from work, should be able to provide some context. (Was going to upload them last night, fell asleep chair )

Any update on these clips by the way? Been a while due to the forums going down ect.

 

[Ferkis]

Any update on these clips by the way? Been a while due to the forums going down ect.

Hi mate apologies for late reply, I lost all my clips of sit due too moving over ssd's.