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Report a Player - [TD] Atek and [TD] Cain - RDM (Action Taken)

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DainMK

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Your In-game name

Dan McCain

Name of the player(s) you are reporting

[TD] Atek and [TD] Cain

Date of the incident

08/08/18

Time of the incident (GMT)

1500

What best describes this incident ?

RDM

Which server did the incident take place on

Server 1

Please (in detail) describe the incident

It was approximately 1500 hrs on server 1, and I was going about my usual business making Apple deliveries to my customers around the island. Having been unable to complete my last delivery before logging off I head back to my truck. In doing so I saw a suspicious vehicle seemingly hiding behind a building, and a hobo with a hobo gun (the cheap one, unsure on the name) presumably looking to ambush unsuspecting Apple farmers. Naturally, not wanting to get mixed up in any illegal activity, I decided to leave the area. After jumping into my truck, I pull out, and attempt to drive away. This is where the breach of rules began.

When driving down the road, an as yet unknown hobo driving a red hatchback tries cutting me off. I maneuver around as best I can, and receive a (probably) accidental tap from his vehicle. I can let that slide, of course. Slightly further down the road I appear to get more deliberately rammed, causing me to perform the most beautiful barrel roll I have ever seen a HEMTT pull off. To me, this is more of a malicious VDM. Still, I can let it slide I suppose, no harm done and my gosh was it magnificent.

At this point, sustained gunfire erupts from the hill, striking my vehicle directly many times. By this point there had been no vocal exchange by any parties that I was aware of. Classic RDM. I drive a safe distance, and put a warning in side chat that there are RDMers hiding in the area. Moments later, the red hatchback shows up again, this time being driven by a chap in a ghillie suit. I begin the process of driving off to protect my cargo and myself. The fellow hops out his car, and then fail RP's his way into shooting some more. The usual 3 second 'out the vehicle right now out the vehicle last chance BANG' style that is so frowned upon. At least almost audible words were spoken here.

I spend the next ~7 minutes putting this man's driving and shooting skills to absolute shame, evading him whenever he tries to cut me off, but, missing a back tire or two I know I can only stall so much. Running out of power I get back to the main road, stop my truck right across the middle of the road in the hopes of getting attention from a passing cop, and await my fate. Naturally, the red hatchback is not far behind, and as it pulls over, ghillie man jumps out of the moving vehicle, and kills himself.

At this point, two passers by intervene (I will not name them here, as there is no complaint with their actions, however if they wish they may post their side of things here also). They zip-tie me, and drag ghillie man and myself behind the road out of sight. Across the next 20 minute or so, some very reasonable and very enjoyable RP takes place, from all parties. Essentially ghillie man and I are bribing our way to enlisting the 2 passers help. One of the mercenaries then leaves, for unknown reasons.

During this exchange I feel it shrewd to check who ghillie man is using the 'give' function. This reveals him to be TD Atek. Through conversation I learn his friends are not near, one being at sea, the other not in the immediate area. I can only guess that TD Dan is the friend at sea, as TD Cain shows up shortly. I am also guessing that TD Cain was the hobo driving the hatchback at the start with the hobo rifle. I welcome correction here if I am wrong.

Finally, I prove that I really am a legit Apple farmer, and I really don't break my word or the law. The unknown mercenary accepts my offer of £1 million in exchange for my freedom, and we drive to the cash point. The mercenary then asks me for £2 million, which I dispute as I agreed £1 million. We settle on £1.5 million. I exchange the cash for my freedom, and get given a free gun to kill Atek with. Naturally, I refuse. At this point, the second mercenary (I think) shows up again.

Looking to make a speedy escape, and seeing the inevitable set-up a mile away, I urge the mercenary and his buddy to leave Atek to bleed out. One heeds my warning, the other does not. Yet again, a hail of bullets rain in with no warning (although you'd have to be a fool not to expect it). TD Cain kills the newly returned merc, and nearly gets the other along with myself.

The surviving merc complains in our car journey to safety about the lack of 'initiation', and I respond that a similar thing happened earlier. I am unsure how I feel about this second volley of fire. I personally would not call that instance RDM, but I could see it being yet more Fail RP. The deciding Admin will have to make that call.

This is essentially the end of my tale. I invite TD to give their side, as I'm sure they will have a response also. Atek said he had video evidence of his side, potentially showing an 'initiation' was made at the beginning. I am certainly open to seeing their side to this situation.

Now, I take RP very seriously, and I take this community very seriously. During the hostage situation Atek mentioned that he had been here 5 years. Had he said he had only been here a week, I might have let this slide more easily, but my standard for long term members are a lot higher than new players. After this long he should be well aware that the behavior seen in my video is not quality RP, or even RP at all. As such I decided to make a formal complaint, at the very least to register the offence in case their is either a history of this, or another similar scenario in the future. RP of such low quality should not go unmentioned from a long term player.

Ultimately, I would be happy with the return of my £1.5 million, along with a HEMTT full of Apples to replace the one that I lost, and a stern warning to Atek about his play style on this occasion. If the Admin decide to push for a harsher response, I will not request any compensation as a ban is not a fun experience for anyone.

One final note I believe is worth making - between the alleged rule breaking, the RP (not shown as it is not relevant to the rule breaches) between all parties when Atek was bleeding out was fun, showed ingenuity, and was actually very enjoyable. Credit where credit is due - Atek is very much capable of good RP (when he can't fire a gun perhaps). This does not however, excuse neglecting the rules at any point.

I welcome comments from any party involved, and leave this at the discretion of Staff. More video is available at Staff request, condensed video given below.

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot)

https://youtu.be/V-QZg2eLR9U
This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting

No

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans)

Yes

 
Hey Dain, I understand totally where you are coming from with this report. I wish you would have taken the many opportunities and pleas I gave you to talk with me to save me the hassle of this paperwork but we are here nevertheless and that is your choice.

We had been following you for quite some time before you pulled into weed and decided to scout for a while and to see what we was going to do but you tried to drive off before we could make a decision or even ask you to stop and talk, which ill admit, may not be very tempting to someone unarmed vs 3 Armed rebels, but we did try as heard in the video to nicely ask you to stop the truck. Regardless you begin to leave and we as a group decide that we will stop your truck and rob you, I dont like it when people just flee without talking so hence that decision.

As you can see in the video Dan clearly tells you to stop multiple times with a clear, fair initiation while you are both at below 10km/h what I didnt realize at the time is that Dan hadnt actually gotten out of the car at all, he had stayed in it, this is where i think the issues arised, had he gotten out and not made this mistake, I doubt we would be here at all. I suspect Dan had forgot to use the direct channel, I dont know how I could of known that Dain didnt hear the initation, as I did, clearly in teamspeak, I really dont know what I could have done better here. I am also unsure of at which points I didnt show quality RP...

As I say, I was led to believe that we was already initiated and hence MY initiation where I pulled up to you was simply me trying to get you to surrender so I didnt have to kill you, It wasnt a re-initiation, and hence why it was so short.

I would also like to note firstly, I was having an off-moment with my aim, your tires seem to be indestructible lol and secondly, It was not us that took the truck or your precious apples, if you would like compensation for that you will need to talk to whoever did take it as we didnt. Of course If I am responsible for the loss of your apples I am happy to compensate you for them.

Finally thank you for the immensely enjoyable rp situation It was, It was a good laugh and I wish it didnt start the way it did.

Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmkmvad1qpc&feature=youtu.be

(I am willing to upload a longer video if need be but this simply is to show that Dan did attempt to talk to you before initiating, and that he did initiate but from what we saw you ignored it and therefore we turned it into a initiation for robbery.)

 
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OK. I have done a little sleuthing. This doesn't look very optimistic. Atek seems to have just received an unban from a perm ban. Days ago... Now I remember why I left the staff team... Oh well, lets see what I can do.

For the deciding staff member - As stated in the original report, I would be happy if Atek provided me £1.5 million in compensation, along with 800 (green) Apples, plus, a stern talking to for Atek, and a laaarge note on his file saying 'any more fuckups will result in a final permanent ban'. Presuming this happened as I think, and he is indeed in the wrong (Atek has yet to give his account, which I believe is important for him to do).

This server is no fun without players, and it is never my intention to go around looking for people to get banned. Sure, it's not great with RDM either, but I have a feeling if Atek gets away with this it will be the last time he pulls a trigger without being gosh-darn certain there was quality RP given beforehand.

As mentioned, Atek did show quality RP at points, and is more than capable of being an asset to the community. I would hate for him to receive a perm ban (again) because of my post. The punishment should fit the crime, and in my humble opinion, he was just being an irresponsible idiot, not a malicious prick.

Naturally, as a stickler for rules and regulations, I will not be removing or withdrawing this post. I believe fully that it is always right to speak up when someone has done wrong, and also for the staff of this server to manage their affairs as they see fit. I trust whatever judgement they make will be based on what they believe is best for this community as a whole.

 
Hello, I'm Cain by the way, I don't see why I am in this report I did not do any sort of rule break.. you cut the video before I died *next to a white house* and I only shot when @Atek started to shoot so I thought they already initiated or something like that. So I would like my name to be removed out of the report thank you.

I even stated to "leave him alone" 2 times over ts. To at the end off the video @DainMK it was already delt with ingame by both parties involved.

Thank you. 

 
Hello, I'm Cain by the way, I don't see why I am in this report I did not do any sort of rule break.. you cut the video before I died *next to a white house* and I only shot when @Atek started to shoot so I thought they already initiated or something like that. So I would like my name to be removed out of the report thank you.

I even stated to "leave him alone" 2 times over ts. To at the end off the video @DainMK it was already delt with ingame by both parties involved.

Thank you. 
Yeah I forgot to ask, why Is Cain being reported?

 
My apologies, I was under the impression Cain was the 'hobo in the hatchback'. Looking at your video [TD] Dan seems to be the driver.

Your video shows Dan shouting at me in my truck from inside his car. My video does not pick any of this up. Perhaps he was shouting in the wrong channel? Regardless, I still feel this constitutes fail RP, so [TD] Dan looks to be in breach of either rule 2.1, 2.2, or 7.1.3 depending how you view it.

Despite this mix up, I will still leave Cain in the report due to the death shown at the end of my video. The two mercenaries were engaged in friendly RP, but at no point did [TD] suggest their actions would be met with retaliation. From his perspective he just rocks up, listens to your dying wish, and then gets capped. This lack of warning is verified by the escaping mercenaries commentary "That's weird without any initiation at all".

This report has turned into a complete tangle of fail RP from all (online) members of [TD], with each member not knowing for certain when it is OK to kill or attack other players. Poor communication is no excuse; "I was just following orders" or "I didn't know he was speaking in the wrong channel" does not exonerate the person pulling the trigger. 

To quote TD's own recruitment page:

The Disciples is a rebel, roleplay gang. This gang is built with the goal that being a illegal, rebel, criminal gang does not mean that any roleplay standard is lowered or that the roleplay of the gang members is in anyway sacrificed, as opposed to a legal group/gang, this gang strives for excellent roleplay and the goal is to change the stereotype that rebel gangs that are constantly involving themselves in criminal activity hold no intentions of delivering a high standard of quality roleplay.
I'm not sure my experience of TD so far reflects this. In the ideal situation of this report being thrown out, you will have a lot of work to do to uphold RP over profit or honour.

The only question I have is why, in Atek's video, is Cain saying 'leave him alone, leave him alone' as I'm receiving fire?

My previous pleas for leniency still stand, and extend to all 3 members now reported.

 
The only question I have is why, in Atek's video, is Cain saying 'leave him alone, leave him alone' as I'm receiving fire?
I said "Leave him alone" due to the fact that you were driving off, in @Atek 's video it does show that TD Dan, is shouting at you to stop or get out. I don't understand how we (Cain and Atek) are suppose to know that he is shouting in the wrong channel. I am sincerely sorry on behalf of TD about our initiation and it will be improved for other roleplayer that we encounter as a gang. I can't personally speak for TD Dan as hes away and he will be coming back on Sunday due to personal reasons. Also where I killed that member it was due to the fact that Atek has took hostage which it was a hostage situation, Atek was already wounded 'Downed' and due to the threat of what they showed asking for 2mill wired to them I killed there other gang member to show that we are not messing ect ect for RP reasons. It was not RDM as it was a hostage sit and it was delt in game with the player who I shot.

@DainMK I would also want to know why you cut your video and not uploaded the full thing?

For Staff Dealing With The Case:

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This report has turned into a complete tangle of fail RP from all (online) members of [TD], with each member not knowing for certain when it is OK to kill or attack other players. Poor communication is no excuse; "I was just following orders" or "I didn't know he was speaking in the wrong channel" does not exonerate the person pulling the trigger. 
Firstly, I am well aware and I know for certain when it is okay to kill or attack, that is after quality rp has been given and initiation has been made properly, I was under the impression that Dan had initiated correctly in the right voice channel, clearly he didnt, If I would have known this I wouldnt have fired, this Is an honest mistake and for which I have already apologized. I feel like you may be portraying this easy to make mistake for a new player, was done intentionally when that couldnt be further from the truth.The captors were talked to by Cain and It was resolved, no rule-break, It was an active hostage situation where they were asking for money or they would let me bleed out, they also waved off medics to stop my revival.

My previous questions stand, How was we meant to know Dan hadnt initiated properly? At what point did me or Cain show poor rp? For it to be RDM you would of had to have died, when did you die? Why have you put jumpcuts in your video, why have you put so much irrelevant information into this report, why are you bringing up your ex-staff, my gang post etc..

I agree poor communication is no excuse, it dosent exonerate me. but with a bit of understand that It was a mistake that we couldnt possibly account for, id like to ask what do you think I could have done to stop the poor rp? I have said sorry, I have offered to compensate, I think its evident that the poor rp in this situation was utterly out of my control and more to do with Dan not initiating properly, due to forgetting to use direct communication, again a very easy mistake to make.

 
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I'm not sure my experience of TD so far reflects this. In the ideal situation of this report being thrown out, you will have a lot of work to do to uphold RP over profit or honour.
Did you not have a fun and enjoyable rp experience throughout the middle and end of the situation? maybe... more fun and enjoyable rp than you would find with other rebel gangs...

Im not sure how this point reflects any argument in the report however my goal is not too argue, your a decent bloke and Im genuinely unhappy that you didnt have a good interaction with my gang, please understand that we are not robots. We make mistakes, and when someone who is new to the server accidentally uses the wrong voice channel and hence you cant hear the initiation. It wasnt done on purpose, we have admitted we was wrong apologized and I have tried to correct the situation In all ways I can think of but for some reason you still look past this and doubt the objectives of my gang and rp ability of my players , over a mistake that neither me or Cain could have prevented. This is very narrow minded and you as someone who often speaks of staff experience should know better to disregard the fact it wasnt intentional.

 
OK I'll have to keep this brief as I have things to attend to IRL today.

@Lucas Lannister ;

As far as this being a hostage situation, I thought I was the hostage. I was the only one in zipties, I was the one having to bargain for my life (between the mercs and TD), and the two mercenaries were mostly siding with you. Atek offered money in exchange for them giving me up as their prisoner, not for his life.

Regarding the cut video, it shows what I believe were the relevant segments. I used shadowplay to record two instances of 15 minutes footage. I can upload the full half an hour if you insist (naturally, you will have to wait for this), but if you have any specific instances you can name I would happily upload any clips if I have them on file.

More video is available at Staff request, condensed video given below.
@Atek

I am well aware and I know for certain when it is okay to kill or attack, that is after quality rp has been given and initiation has been made properly
So, even if Dan had been broadcasting in the correct channel, and, even if he wasn't in a car, shouting to another person in a truck, you believe this* constitutes quality RP and a reasonable 'initiation'?

*"Hello mate, get out your vehicle please, get out your vehicle. GET OUT your vehicle and put your hands behind your head... Or you're gonna be killed"

How was we meant to know Dan hadnt initiated properly?
Firstly, I don't believe 'initiation' isn't really a thing, hence why I always put it in apostrophes. Secondly, "I am well aware and I know for certain when it is okay to kill or attack". See the point above.

For it to be RDM you would of had to have died
Have you read the rules?

Why am I bringing up that I was ex-staff? I have already told you this. Quote from ts conversation below. Other than making a private joke, it serves no purpose. If you're suggesting the Admin will treat this case differently because of who I am, personally I think that would help you more than hinder you. 

<18:13:39> "[TD] Atek": Out of curiosity
<18:13:52> "[TD] Atek": you say "Now I remember why I left the staff team"
<18:13:55> "[TD] Atek": Why did you?
<18:15:59> "DainMK": That was half a joke. I mostly left because of work commitments, but a big part of it was the constant bullshit from rule breakers etc. Not saying this situation is bullshit, but just my luck your on a last warning and I gotta work to help you out. Yes, I could just take down the post. No, I wont. You study psychology, right? Maybe youll understand
I have the entire transcript if you think there is any more relevant information in it.

Right, sorry that had to be done in brief, but as I said I cannot commit too much time on this right now. I will be available later today.

Ideally at this point I'd like to hear a staff members opinion, rather than just back and forthing between us. It isn't helpful to have so much dialogue for the Staff member that has to deal with this.

 
So, even if Dan had been broadcasting in the correct channel, and, even if he wasn't in a car, shouting to another person in a truck, you believe this* constitutes quality RP and a reasonable 'initiation'?

*"Hello mate, get out your vehicle please, get out your vehicle. GET OUT your vehicle and put your hands behind your head... Or you're gonna be killed"
Its not groundbreaking roleplay but it certainly isnt a rule break in my opinion, he asked you nicely to step out with the intention of talking to you nicely, seeing what you was doing etc. but, you tried to drive away without even bothering to talk to him, so he then tried the less nice tactic and orders you out with a threat, which you dont comply with, and then you are shot at. What else do you expect from him to say, he dosent have time to say much else, you was leaving.

Ideally at this point I'd like to hear a staff members opinion, rather than just back and forthing between us. It isn't helpful to have so much dialogue for the Staff member that has to deal with this.
Agreed. Ill finish by saying that I hope there is no hard feelings as you stated there wasnt. If we meet again Im sure that it will be a great rp situation throughout. Ill talk to Dan and make sure that he is informed that he cant initiate inside a car, or at a car going 40km/h+ and you need to check your in the right voice channel before talking. From my end, Im not too sure what I can do to prevent this sort of thing from happening again, because as previously stated, I have to take my gang members word that we are initiated. 

 
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So before any staff member will want to proceed with this whatsoever we will require at least 3-5 minutes more before the video starts and without any of these cuts between scenes, unsure why they are there and if it was an attempt to save us time it is appreciated but un-needed as it does not allow us to see the full picture and ensure there are not sly attempts at putting others in a darker corners of the light.

 
@DainMK 

So before any staff member will want to proceed with this whatsoever we will require at least 3-5 minutes more before the video starts and without any of these cuts between scenes, unsure why they are there and if it was an attempt to save us time it is appreciated but un-needed as it does not allow us to see the full picture and ensure there are not sly attempts at putting others in a darker corners of the light.
Thats probably gonna take a while isnt it?

 
I can upload a file before work if I drop the quality. If for whatever reason you want high quality footage, I can probably get that uploaded before midnight tonight. For now the extended cut will have to be done in low quality.

This shows 3 minutes prior to the original footage, where I am walking around, as described in the first paragraph of the report. It should be obvious the point at which I first notice someone is in the area. The text being sent is a police dispatch, alerting them to the armed men. Hopefully you can verify this in logs, if not, please request the HQ video if you feel it is relevant.

Now there is one cut in this video where I save the first recording. I expect about half an hour passes from the end of the first recording, to the end of the second recording, leaving ~15 minutes unrecorded. The second clip is covering the full 15 minutes at the end of the interaction. This pretty much just shows the mercenary, Atek, and I arguing over who will take custody of me, before rejoining where the initial video cuts in.

To give me a better idea of what you are looking for, is anyone disputing things as not happening the way I described in the report?

For now this is still uploading; ideally it will be viewable while I'm at work. 

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Edit: This still has not uploaded and I have to leave for work. I don't enjoy leaving my PC running all day if I'm not home but to expedite things I will have to today. I'd prefer not to spend my evening uploading as well so please, if anyone wants more, I'd appreciate some context in what you're looking for. As far as I can tell there is one main complaint here - was I, or was I not, shot at without being engaged in any form of quality role play (2.2). If you think there is some quality RP I'm editing out in the first 5 minutes, just say so and I can upload the specific data very quickly. 

 
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4 hours ago, DainMK said:

To give me a better idea of what you are looking for, is anyone disputing things as not happening the way I described in the report?

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This video Is accurate enough to show the events that occurred, in my mind there is no need for any other video. 

 
Please dont make a final decision yet, Dan has returned and actually still has the recording from the situation and id like it to be considered before any final say.

 
Hello, [TD] Dan here.

I'm unsure if this report is still active but if anyone wishes to see video evidence that I initiated RP in direct voice chat, I can but it will take a while as my internet connection is awful.

Also, I've only played actively on this server for a maximum of 2 weeks but I do pride myself on following the rules, apparently there is some unwritten rule not to initiate to a vehicle. On behalf of all new players I would much rather this was a real rule to stop further situations like this.

 
Ok, thank you DainMK for the additional video to show the main parts and a bit more before the first attempt at RDM was made to ensure there is nothing more. As you've already stated you should be aware that as staff we do require video evidence as we cannot just go off someone's word and people have and still do attempt to edit videos to show only the worst parts and hide the parts that would redeem someone.

Anyway onto this shitshow of roleplay. Lets kick it off, first up lets start with the Hatchy driver "Dan" ... vehicle on vehicle roleplay is not possible due to the Arma VOIP it does not work well enough, either way you seem to have been in the wrong channel and even if you managed to speak in direct properly and it was heard that so-called "initiating" of roleplay towards him was absolutely garbage and the kind of "roleplay" I would expect on other servers were you just shot eachother after saying one word, nothing in that was high quality in any regard and your friend Atek should have noticed how shit it was as well and he cannot pass the blame off to you for him shooting as it is his own responsibility to ensure there was actual quality roleplay before he even thinks about pulling the trigger. Alongside all that I notice you ram into Dain twice, the first time you had no reason to drive forward into him then at the second time (which causes a flip) you are quite clearly purposefully driving as close to him as you can and it looks a hell of a like VDM, if it was not for the first time you did it I could pass it off as an accident but not twice like this. So alongside being banned for RDM as you provide the shit role and clearly being involved and being the main cause of it, I cannot trust you whatsoever that you won't cause far more issues... you will also be hit with VDM.

[TD] Dan - Action Taken (2.1, 2.2)

As stated above, it is your own responsibility to ensure there was actual quality roleplay before you even think about pulling the trigger and there was not whatsoever.

[TD] Atek - Action Taken (2.2)

And finally Cain... I thought you had a little more reason to you from the fact you tried to get them to leave him at first for (and I hope) noticing the shit roleplay attempt. But then you go and ruin it by doing the same as the above at the petrol station and committing RDM... and I do wonder how you found your friend so quickly it was rather odd.

[TD] Cain - Action Taken (2.2)

From your replies in this report I am not filled by enough confidence from any of you that I could even let you off with providing a deal that would repay DainMK, I do hope your appeals actually have effort to them and show that you have indeed learned from this and actually read the rules properly and asked any appropriate questions that would avoid this ever happening again.

 
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