Report a player - Ronny Savage - GTA RP

[Cheddar]

Report a player 

Your In-game Name: Chester Buckets

Name and/or ID of the player(s) you are reporting: Ronny Savage

Which server did the incident take place on: GTA RP

Date of the incident: 08/11/22

Time of the incident (GMT) 24hr Format: 20

What best describes this incident ?: NVL

Please (in detail) describe the incident: Some backstory to the situation as a whole:

The group I am apart of has had a fairly long running feud with the other group in the clip. As of this happening, no attempts by either side has been made to settle the feud, so there should be no doubt that there is still a conflict taking place.


In reference to the evidence attached:

You can see 2 cars pull up and confront the group of people standing there. Immediately, they are all told to raise their hands so that we would be able to ziptie them. At this point, they are all being threatened by 2 guns, a shovel and a knife. You can see 1 person move into the group to begin ziptie-ing them. As this happens, the knife is lowered, but the 2 guns and the shovel are still present and still threatening the group. As you can see in the clip, Ronny Savage (can be seen wearing the grey suit and flat cap) crouches down and moves closer to his car. He then unlocks it, enters it, and begins to reverse and later ram us.

He says he was able to go to his car as a gun is not held on him specifically at that moment at time, and that he was behind enough people that we would not be able to kill him. I disagree with this because weapons were still held against the group (1 gun, a knife, and a shovel), meaning his life is still in danger and he should still follow our commands to keep his hands up. Instead of this, he lowers his hands, crouches, moves to his car and then enters it. To me, this is very clear NVL as his life is still in danger.
To address the claim that he was behind multiple people so he is protected, we had people with weapons nearly completely surrounding them, so I'm confident in saying someone would have the ability to attack him. I can't be sure of that without viewpoints from others involved, but you can see I personally was able to shoot him if I needed to.

https://imgur.com/a/rsDTJPj - Gun being aimed as he enters his car

https://imgur.com/a/DKHtero - A gun being aimed at him whilst he is in the group, very clearly visible by myself

https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/wf7SH0jNMpAS1/d1337fndaF5z?invite=cr-MSxNVWksNDQ4MDg1NjMs - Video of the situation

A quick note, I was not the one that attempted to resolve the situation with Ronny, it was another person involved.

Any questions, I'm more than happy to clear up.

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot):



https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/wf7SH0jNMpAS1/d1337fndaF5z?invite=cr-MSxNVWksNDQ4MDg1NjMs



This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!: Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting: Yes

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans): Yes

 

[Ronny Savage]

From my point of view their was multiple people stood between me and anyone with a gun, nobody was pointing any sort of weapon at me so i took the opportunity to crouch, unlock my car and hop in, From my perspective i wasn't in immediate danger and had a window to get away, which i pulled off successfully. Also the fact that nobody even noticed or told me to stop until the car was already driving tells me my decision wasn't done whilst under immediate threat.
Just to add further if you look through the video clip and look at where everyone is the person with the shovel was nowhere near me or anyone for that matter, Eric the guy at the back only had a knife and was dealing with jack and the guy who gets out the car with a strap also goes and deals with someone and yourself had your strap nowhere near me after everyone else got out their cars, leaving me alone to make an escape.


 

 

[Cheddar]

If you look at the clip attached, you lower your hands at 00:25. At this point you can clearly see my gun is aimed at the group along with another gun to my left. I've got no way to tell exactly were the other gun was aimed, but it looks awfully close to you, if not at you. You were still at gunpoint, you should have not lowered your hands here, which you then used to your own benefit by unlocking your car and entering it. At 00:32, you unlock and later enter your car, at this point you can still clearly see my gun is aimed at the group, which still included you at this point.

The claim that you were clearly safe because nobody challenged you as you got into your car is not justification for not valuing your life. I would personally hope all involved would have followed the NVL rules and followed our commands. I did not envision someone lowering their hands and running to their vehicle whilst under gun point.

Here is an image showing a gun is pointed undoubtedly in your direction at the moment you decide to lower your hands. You cannot claim there are people between you and this weapon.

I find it very hard to believe you were able to deduce precisely where each gun is aimed as the situation progressed, especially mine. I honestly believe this argument is being made with the help of the video I have attached. However, I believe whether my gun was aimed exactly at you is besides the point, the gun was aimed at the group of people, of which you are a part of. We had clearly threatened the whole group by telling them to put their hands up, and you need to follow that command too.

Attached is an image the moment before you unlock and enter your vehicle, it would be silly to claim that your life is not being threatened by a gun pointed almost directly at you.

 

[Bonjamon]

Evening, hope all is well.

I'm the person in the white suit with the executioners mask for context. 

Although I do not have video evidence, my gun was aimed at the group of people at the start. The second I get out of my vehicle my gun is almost solely aimed at Ronny Savage, as he is a prominent member in the feud. Although my gun is lowered when I attempt to ziptie another individual (as it is an uncancellable animation), I would argue that the threat of myself being able to pull it out (and the gun being pointed at them from the car) would ensure the ones at gunpoint to not move.

If there are any questions or queries, I'll be happy to answer. 

 

[Ronny Savage]

We have been here before with the back and forward, I'll wait for the Admin to ask the questions as i have said my point of view already for this situation, we could debate all day and not get to a conclusion as both party's have a different opinion on the matter.

And @BonjamonWithout video evidence that's very easy to say. 

Unfortunately i didn't capture what had happened as i had been watching Netflix which turns off my screen recorder and i hadn't realised before joining the server, Hopefully i can get a clip from one of the others who was my side of the action to show how much space i had to move freely
 

 

[kearnwelsh98]

in regards to Ronny not having his POV I will provide mine, all be it a bit jumpy with Ronny's Movements.

In all honesty the fact that you have a gun pointed it isn't at Ronny solely, and there was loads of us there, its quite easy to miss a body through the amount of bodies that were there.

Further more its quite clear you didn't see Ronny actually move away and try his luck by crouching behind the car, and with that you didn't realise someone had jumped in the car until it was way too late, feels like a bit of a far fetched report in my opinion. he tried his luck and it worked anyone who didn't have a gun pointed at them would do the exact same.

MY POV : https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/wh4HVS3dFRCF1/d1337SLo4JQp?invite=cr-MSxPRlIsNTM3NjgyMzE

 

[Cheddar]

Thanks for providing your POV @kearnwelsh98.

In the clip you provided, it all but confirms @Bonjamon's statement were he stated he had the gun solely pointed at Ronny until the point at which zipties the person in front (reference image below).

Further more its quite clear you didn't see Ronny actually move

With the fact we now have a clearer POV of the group, you can see that he has fallen subject to the bug that causes your player model to teleport around for other users. I feel like this adequately explains why he was not seen moving. The fact of the matter is, he was under gun point, and decided to lower his hands and begin to move. This bug does not justify his actions, whether bugged or not, he still lowered his hands and moved at gun point, constituting NVL. Furthermore, his life is under threat, he should "try his luck" crouching behind his car etc.

 

[Ronny Savage]

(G2.4) Value of Life - At all times you are to value your life, if you are clearly outnumbered or at an obvious disadvantage you should comply with demands.

"At all times you are to value your life" - As mentioned by @Cheddarat the start of the report this has been "ongoing", Even if we ignore the 3-4 week break you  guys took for whatever reason, its pretty clear that the final outcome of me being taken would have be death. So i feel trying to at least do something given i had that window of opportunity to try and save myself, It would have been a different story if it was 2-3 v 1 as i would most certainly have no where to go. 

"if you are clearly outnumbered or at an obvious disadvantage you should comply with demands." - As you can see in Welshys clip we can see 2 people in white suits on foot, the person with a shovel stood next to no one on the footpath and finally Chester in a white suit driving the car so that is 4 people, 3 if you don't count the person with the shovel doing nothing, we had 5-6 of us stood talking when you all arrived, no way can 3 people control a crowd that big so i took my chance.

Also for the person in black who had his hands up at the start i assumed in the heat of the moment that he was also one of the many people who stop for a chat, Still not fully sure if he was with you guys as you said 2 guns a shovel and a knife were the weapons used, The guy also didn't get his knife out until i had already pressed the key to enter my car.
 

 And for me having the weird bug when i've pressed Q to take cover its a bit crap as it breaks the immersion of the situation but i didn't know that would happen. Apologies

 

[kearnwelsh98]

Although I can see your argument, its a poor one Chester. like you said this pov shows that the gun was pointed at Ronny in the screenshot you provided, although, here's the problem with that.

How can you say the gun was pointed at him when Lester put his gun down to zip tie JT, and your gun was pointed then at about 5/6 people, that one gun unless it was an automatic  rifle does not work, and in real life if that had happened to me id of done the same thing.

in my opinion and with my background, I would say that taking one of your guns out of the game by zip ties are being applied to others is poor man management and poor planning.

there was at least 6 of yous there so why would you not use someone who had a knife, bat, etc. 

so that being said I understand your argument, but one gun just isn't enough in my professional opinion.

 

[Cheddar]

Even if we ignore the 3-4 week break you  guys took for whatever reason

We both know that is simply not the case. I do agree nothing significant happened for 6-7 days, however before this situation occurred, @Eric Wongliaised with a staff member in TS in reference to how we should continue. To paraphrase slightly, we were told to reintroduce ourselves to the situation, most likely by kidnapping a member of your group and then letting them free after. How this affects your actions in relation to this situation, I'm not sure.

or at an obvious disadvantage you should comply with demands.

I would like to think being in a situation where your hands are already raised and now under gunpoint is an obvious disadvantage, don't you agree? Why would you make the conscious decision to lower your hands, going directly against what you've been told to do? If you'd never raised your hands, putting you at an obvious disadvantage, and had instead immediately made your attempt to run immediately then I'd have no problem with that. You chose to put yourself at a disadvantage in this situation.

its pretty clear that the final outcome of me being taken would have be death

Why does this matter? Your life is under threat at this moment in time and you must follow commands.

 

[Ronny Savage]

We both know that is simply not the case. I do agree nothing significant happened for 6-7 days, however before this situation occurred, @Eric Wongliaised with a staff member in TS in reference to how we should continue. To paraphrase slightly, we were told to reintroduce ourselves to the situation, most likely by kidnapping a member of your group and then letting them free after. How this affects your actions in relation to this situation, I'm not sure.

I disagree, Not a single piece of RP had come from you guys or us regarding this "feud" for 2 weeks plus, Not sure where you're getting this 6-7 days from, We have multiple people in The Order who can also confirm this and also probably messages in our Discord regarding the lack of anything from you boys for weeks.
Even if Eric did this you boys failed to do what was advised, All you did was kidnap @kearnwelsh98midday of yesterday but you killed him so his character wont remember and none of us were around, Meaning from our POV it had been 2 weeks+ without anything. 

I would like to think being in a situation where your hands are already raised and now under gunpoint is an obvious disadvantage, don't you agree? Why would you make the conscious decision to lower your hands, going directly against what you've been told to do? If you'd never raised your hands, putting you at an obvious disadvantage, and had instead immediately made your attempt to run immediately then I'd have no problem with that. You chose to put yourself at a disadvantage in this situation.

The Fact my hands were raised means i was complying, until i see the moment to escape. If i had never raised my hands then that would have been NVL as you pulled up with a gun pointing in my direction, I wasn't until people starting walking about, I moved unnoticed and you were all too distracted to do anything that i made my move.

Why does this matter? Your life is under threat at this moment in time and you must follow commands.

Of course it matters, This wasn't a one off event as you said yourself it has been ongoing and i have been told multiple times the end goal is me and jack dead.
I still argue that if i hadn't have seized my opportunity to escape that i would have been shot ultimately.


 

We have been here before with the back and forward, I'll wait for the Admin to ask the questions as i have said my point of view already for this situation, we could debate all day and not get to a conclusion as both party's have a different opinion on the matter.
 

As i said earlier on this report, we can go back and forwards and its clear we have a different opinion so i feel like this is done on my end. Not much more i can say without Staff wanting to know specifics. 
 

 

[Jack Smith]

Hello and if staff don't mind I would just like to add a small message to this report. I am the Leader of The Order and have been since December 2021 and would just like to ask Cheddar why he seems to have it out for Ronny OOC? In the clip provided here 2 characters do the same thing and make a dash for the cars but Ronny has only been reported?

I'd just like to make admins aware that Cheddar seems to have taken something to heart and is making Spotify playlists to try and insult Ronny OOC? (Evidence here: Spotify Playlist).
End of day your character isn't you and you aren't your character!

I'm sorry if this isn't relevant or reletable to the post but I find it disgusting the way these lads have left the group and are now just been really immature about everything, after been part of a group with them for 6 months it really is disappointing to see them acting in this nature.

The only roleplay this other group have provided us with is the scenario you see here in this post.

And when we seem to have a decent amount of people online the other group seem to always be on other characters or nowhere to be found. I'm not happy with certain things but been able to prove my suspicions is something I can't provide. 

Thanks

 

[Cheddar]

Replying to @Mace Windu's Crusty Arm Stump's statement:

he Fact my hands were raised means i was complying, until i see the moment to escape

How do you see it fit to lower your hands and attempt an escape whilst *directly* under gunpoint (Look at previous replies for the screenshot). 

moved unnoticed and you were all too distracted to do anything that i made my move.

Like I have also said before, you were clearly bugged and I'm almost certain that is why you weren't seen moving.

Of course it matters

I'm a bit confused here. Why does the possible outcome of a situation decide whether you should value your life or not?

========================================================================================================================================

Replying to @Jack Smith's statement:

2 characters do the same thing and make a dash for the cars but Ronny has only been reported?

The other character would be you, correct? You have not been reported as we are very clearly all focused on Ronny, and so you are not under immediate threat, and have a decent excuse to run. If you'd done exactly what he'd done, you would be reported. 

I'd just like to make admins aware that Cheddar seems to have taken something to heart and is making Spotify playlists to try and insult Ronny OOC? (Evidence here: Spotify Playlist).

This was done over 1 month ago, and was done in response to the constant complaining in DM's by both yourself @Jack Smith, but mainly Ronny. In comparison to some of the things I have been messaged privately, that is hardly an insult really (Happy to provide evidence if requested). In the end, I had to block Ronny due to the constant harassment in DM's.

And when we seem to have a decent amount of people online the other group seem to always be on other characters or nowhere to be found

Over the last 1/2 weeks, many of us have been busy IRL and I have personally been getting started on a new character. This has led to there being ~3 of us at 8pm restart. When there are ~4 of you at 8pm restart, why would I attempt to do anything? If I were to play that character, all I would do is grind money or drive around mindlessly all night. Quite simply, I have more fun on my other character and choose to play it more often than not at that time. On top of this, how would this be against the rules?

===============================================================================================================================================

Like you've said yourself Ronny, this is going round in circles now. I'll be more than happy to answer any questions staff have, but this'll be my last main reply to this thread.

 

[Jack Smith]

And when we seem to have a decent amount of people online the other group seem to always be on other characters or nowhere to be found

Over the last 1/2 weeks, many of us have been busy IRL and I have personally been getting started on a new character. This has led to there being ~3 of us at 8pm restart. When there are ~4 of you at 8pm restart, why would I attempt to do anything? If I were to play that character, all I would do is grind money or drive around mindlessly all night. Quite simply, I have more fun on my other character and choose to play it more often than not at that time. On top of this, how would this be against the rules?

Before this scenario it had been 16 days in which the two groups had no altercations. I don't really play other characters as I don't have the time anymore to commit to multiple stories. How long is a realistic time for this to carry on for? You've kidnapped and killed the same members over and over and provided nothing in return for us to be able to continue any story. You could send one back with a message or a warning.

This was done over 1 month ago, and was done in response to the constant complaining in DM's by both yourself @Jack Smith, but mainly Ronny. In comparison to some of the things I have been messaged privately, that is hardly an insult really (Happy to provide evidence if requested). In the end, I had to block Ronny due to the constant harassment in DM's.

Doesn't matter when it occured there is no need for it. Why would we want to waste our time trying to RP with someone who's clearly got a grudge ooc.

 

[Cheddar]

provided nothing in return for us to be able to continue any story. You could send one back with a message or a warning.

Are we not going to mention the countless times we have pulled beside JT and Welshy and asked where you and Ronny are so we can meet? Are we not going to mention the countless times Lester has called you asking to meet? We did exactly what you suggest the other day with JT and Welshy, happy to provide the clip if you would like to see. It's not our problem if the people we give these messages to aren't giving them back. 

Doesn't matter when it occured there is no need for it. Why would we want to waste our time trying to RP with someone who's clearly got a grudge ooc.

Equally there was no need for anything that was DM'ed to me. This information isn't relevant to the report, so is it needed?

Please reply with information relevant to the situation mentioned in the original report. I don't see the point filling the replies with information which really isn't helpful to anyone trying to make a decision to whether a rule was broken.

 

[Ronny Savage]

In the end, I had to block Ronny due to the constant harassment in DM's.

I would like to quote this with what you wrote  on welshys previous Report on yourself.

‘The closest thing to a discussion is borderline toxic dm's by other members of the group in my discord messages, and none have been in relation to this situation’

Since this post about ‘borderline toxic’ DM’s it’s now escalated to harassment? Since no more messages have been sent since before this last incident between us all I do wonder why you never said beforehand (on the last report) that I was harassing you, and not ‘borderline toxic’ as you stated before 

 

[Cheddar]

Why any of this is of concern during an NVL report, I couldn't tell you. Why are we going down completely different avenues of discussion which serve no purpose to the report?

At the end of the day, this report has been made so that staff can judge whether the rule stated in the report has been broken. 

Please can we stop going more into these other discussions. If you feel myself or others have done something, make a separate report. If I feel someone has done something wrong, I will make a separate report. This is not the place to discuss it.

 

[Jack Smith]

Why any of this is of concern during an NVL report, I couldn't tell you. Why are we going down completely different avenues of discussion which serve no purpose to the report?

At the end of the day, this report has been made so that staff can judge whether the rule stated in the report has been broken. 

Well I posted originally as I beleived this statement not to be true;

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans): Yes

The stuff OOC about Ronny isn't on and you've also mentioned stuff about my son in the past so let's not go down that road. You're not a very nice person and to be totally honest i'd not like to take part in any RP that you're taking part in.

 

[Cheddar]

you've also mentioned stuff about my son in the past

I'm sorry, what? What are you trying to insinuate now?

In what way is this a revenge report? I believe a rule has been broken, therefore I have reported it.