Report a player - Riley Winters (333) - GTA RP

[JordanDMK]

Server: GTA RP
Your Character Name: Jim Daniels
Reported Players: Riley Winters (333)
Date: August 1, 2024
Time: 20:00
What best describes this incident: NVL
Please (in detail) describe the incident: The Occult was on a "hunt" for Riley Winters, We soon found her parked outside the prison and broke off to stalk her. We watched her drive into MRPD where we then waited for her to exit.

Riley Winters then left mrpd and stopped at the traffic lights where The Occult boxed her in and pointed multiple guns, While being surrounded by cars and guns you can hear multiple people giving her clear demands to which she ignored.

After a liason with Riley Winters she feels her actions are justifed with the reason she was already moving, the footage clearly shows her being boxed in to which she had to ram her way out of. Unfortunately police cars have a unresponible amount of torque that allows them to force other cars out of the way, regardless of this action she was given ample time to follow the demands given to her.

I believe all of her actions are a clear example of NVL, she did not value her life or the life of her passengers. The arguement of "the car was already moving" is a sorry attempt of a excuse to try and escape a obvious situation she was going to lose. She left us no choice but to shoot after her actions which is sad because RP should not have to escalate to shooting because of one persons NVL.
Link(s) To Any Evidence:

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[Nepp]

Hello Jordan,

I appreciate the fact you've come to the liaison to speak to me about this, I understand what you have said to me during our liaison talk, aside from understanding I had offered to show you this particular clip and explain a little more, but you seemed very set in your ways of proceeding to the forums and reporting me, I don't like not giving my side to someone accusing me of something. You can see in the clip that follows, I am aware of suspicious presence of vehicles parked around the station I had noticed your vehicles and multiple others in the area of Bolingbroke but I was not aware your numbers or intention, it was only until around the black jester followed us and parked directly behind us.

In regards to being surrounded and given commands, you can see I am driving away from the situation as I notice what is happening, I don't believe I am in violation of NVL during this incident due to a few factors which compliment each other; I am with another officer in a vehicle, I attempt to drive from the situation before fully boxed in. I commit to this attempt as at the time I decide it's my best means of escape, I at the time believe I am safe in my vehicle if I manage to squeeze and continue the action, that is my rational idea in RP I fully believe that if I drive I will be safe, it can be seen that even after I drive off, I have no intentions of turning around to confront, but that is shortly ended after being shot in the back.

I do understand that it's a matter of seconds interval between me attempting to slam the pedal, to you and your friends demands for me and the officer. But we're talking seconds you can see on the clip that my vehicle speed raises around the exact time one of your friends says "officer" and parks Infront of me. I commit here and I don't stop as I fully believe I am going to be safe if I can drive out, again I purely believe from an RP perspective this is my idea. Looking back on this clip and after hearing your comments to me in liason, I understand your point, but not being allowed to voice my opinion and my side to you we never had this conversation deeply. You were rooted in your ways very clearly for me, as I was also but I offered to give more insight to your dismissal saying you want to proceed to a report without hearing my defense.

I am also going to state from an RP perspective, I am around 100-ish meters away from a police station that I have just left the safety of, that I am aware officers are inside, I don't feel as though your plan was thought through enough, from my thinking, I have backup and lots of it clear and evidence from the clip around a 30 seconds run from my position, now I'm not saying I'm abusing this fact saying no one should kidnap anyone, but as you can see from my clip, I press my panic button around the same time as attempting to flee, I fully commit to this path and knowing that help is a stone throw away I rely fully on the officers responding to help me and my other officer, you guys chose to shoot me and brad, after we broke free and could've introduced a dynamic RP situation that was not part of your plan.

The fact you go into this with a "a obvious situation she was going to lose" mindset tells me a lot about how you had no others plans in case something went wrong. There are no other considerations with your RP if it could be interrupted or something unforseen could happen. I do not believe with my opinion that I have broken this rule. I understand the rule states if you are clearly outnumbered or at an obvious disadvantage, however it's the same as if we decided to go and look for occult at your camp, or around your camp it's more often the case as opposed to not that when members of groups are near their home area they respond different when approached by police.

I am not far from a fully manned police station and I truly believe that I am not that much at danger, if I had been roadside generally caught off guard fair enough, but we're talking what 2 minutes after I exit the station already noticing vehicles in the area.

Looking forward to your response thanks,

Ryleigh

My Clip

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[JordanDMK]

Hi Nepp,

Glad you replied. Lets get started then shall we.

"I was not aware your numbers or intention"
At approximately 5 minutes of your clip you were made very aware of our numbers and the imminent danger you were in. From your clip alone I can count 4 guns pointed at you at approximately 3-5 different people giving you very clear demands on repeat of "Get out the car". So given that insight and obvious danger you choose to try and flee with inevitably lead to you being incapicated. Your actions are a clear president of "(G2.4) Value of Life. At all times you are to value your life, if you are clearly outnumbered or at an obvious disadvantage you should comply with demands."

"In regards to being surrounded and given commands, you can see I am driving away from the situation as I notice what is happening"
I don't need to break this one down for you but you were stopped at a intersection, you attempted to drive away the moment you were in danger. Hence being a clear breach of G2.4.

"I am with another officer in a vehicle"
Even so you're heavily out numbered and wise enough to see that.

"that is my rational idea in RP I fully believe that if I drive I will be safe"
rational vs server rules are pretty clear. You should rely on common sense rather than a rational feeling. Your actions are the very commiment that people are getting tired of RPUK and complain about police always shooting or gangs always shooting. You simply had to follow commands and not a single bullet would have been shot. Instead a mass murder happened that lead to remaining Occulting going on a rampage to remind police their actions have consequences.

"I understand your point, but not being allowed to voice my opinion and my side to you we never had this conversation deeply."
Need I remind that you voiced your opinion clearly and said you felt no rules were broken. You wanted to provide me your POV to which I didn't feel needed given the clarity of the situation I already had. In liason you fully acknowledged the person with the combat pdw but said "I knew I had time because he was still in the car", now I'm not going to be petty and add powergaming to this but multiple people with a guns making demands its pretty clear cut to which you also acknowledged and tried to downplay by saying you only heard 2 people to which I can only thank you for uploading your POV and providing us with the clear knowledge that it was obviously more than 2.

"am also going to state from an RP perspective, I am around 100-ish meters away from a police station that I have just left the safety of, that I am aware officers are inside, I don't feel as though your plan was thought through enough"
I'm glad you mentioned this because if anyone would like to review the evidence it is clear we knew hitting you at MRPD is a no, instead we waited and monitored other on going activity. When you originally stopped 2-3 cars with their lights on flew past you which gave us the obvious indication that a ongoing situation was taking place leaving you vunerable. Had you followed demands the officers inside MRPD would not have made it to you in time. (Althought I guess we will never know due to your heavy foot on a pedal)

"I have backup and lots of it clear and evidence from the clip around a 30 seconds run from my position, now I'm not saying I'm abusing this fact saying no one should kidnap anyone"
You abused the cars ability to ram which you're aware of, followed by you attempting to escape. Now cops in the area did not have enough response time from our infomation aswell as if we didn't have to shoot. Given the fact we had to shoot after you'd identified us that gave any police coming to the scene the ability to open fire. Had you been in zipties and a car with a police chase then the situation and outcome all the together would be fair game.

"after we broke free and could've introduced a dynamic RP situation that was not part of your plan."
the dyanamic RP situation lead by a police fleeing to major backup where all the criminals face a major loss? Doesn't sound dynamic nor realisitic." You don't know our plan, niether did you know what we already knew. But despite your lack of accepting a loss you choose to try and flee in a outnumbered, out gunned situation.

"The fact you go into this with a "a obvious situation she was going to lose" mindset tells me a lot about how you had no others plans in case something went wrong."
Constigences and problems are always handled on site because anything could happen from a binman ramming a car. The Occult have no problem in handling communication and tense situations. You've only seen what happened to you in 15 seconds despite the lead up to it. The spite you mustarded up to quote me with "a obvious situation she was going to lose" is benine to the fact you were surronded by guns, now unless we have stormtropper aim and your name is Tom Cruise you weren't exactly going to drive off into the sunset with theatric background music followed by credits...

"I am not far from a fully manned police station and I truly believe that I am not that much at danger"
As stated before you were stalked and a obvious on going situation was already taking place depleating resources around you. But I'll entertain your logic for this next part. You claim that "I am not that much at danger" You had police in MRPD on foot, there might have been a patrol car nearby we didn't spot. All of a sudden multiple cars have boxed me in, I've hit my panic knowing response is around the corner. I'd get out of my car and follow demands crossing my fingers and toes that they respond in time. You were in immediate danger the moment guns were present. You have treated the situation like you've got as many respawns as you need. You've neglected the fact of being surronded and took a chance you may live or die because "I truly believe that I am not that much at danger". I'm sorry but the logic you've applied here is terrible. I could argue that I am never at danger because Occult is a radio click away. You've simply not valued your life in the circumstances that was presented to you.

Now that I've finished going through everything you've said/claimed/accused I hope you can come to the realisation of the rule "(G2.4) Value of Life. At all times you are to value your life, if you are clearly outnumbered or at an obvious disadvantage you should comply with demands." Despite your weird stratergy of looking for a flaw in our plan we rely on people following the rules of the server, had you done so we wouldn't be here.

Thanks.

 

[Slawek]

Hey there,
As with most NVL reports, it's quite controversial, but let's get this going, we're here to enforce the rules afterall.
To be accurate, i've gone over some of the NVL reports from recent times, will try to get a decent explaination here.

Ok, so NVL, obviously different people have slightly different opinions on the rule. Whilst it can often be argued that a person did not comply since they believed they could get away from the situation safely, i do believe this situation is not one of them. It's quite clear this fulfils the "at an obvious disadvantage" and also "clearly outnumbered" parts of the rule. Sure, here i'd say the argument that the car was on the move already can be used, however it doesn't outweigh the rest of the situation. Sure, there may be other cops close by, but they are not in a position to assist instantly, it will take a bit of time, enough for you to get shot, now if we were thinking about this from a game perspective then sure, you won't bleed out, you will be downed but then others cops will surely get you to hospital. However we have to keep in mind that this is a roleplay server, so where possible we try to look at things as if they were IRL, in that case i don't think anyone would want to risk being blasted by so many guns. I think it should also be brought up that this action does cut RP short, there isn't much RP to be had once bullets start flying.

With all that being said, let's keep in mind that there will be situations where "taking a chance" is not against the rules, my response to this report is not a blanket statement that in all situations where you have guns pointed at you you cannot try to get away, in many situations you can, even if you don't make it, in some situations you will be 100% sure you will die if taken due to in-RP knowledge, in those cases it makes sense to try to get away no matter what, in many situations you have a chance, even if it's not the best chance, in this one, i don't really see that chance, as per what i said above.

Action Taken
98480 - G2.4 - 1 Day Ban