Report a Player - K I E R A N - RDM

[spoof]

Your In-game name

spoof

Name of the player(s) you are reporting

K I E R A N

Date of the incident

14/12/18

Time of the incident (GMT)

02:00

What best describes this incident ?

RDM

Which server did the incident take place on

Server 1
Teamspeak

Please (in detail) describe the incident

Approx. 10 minutes after me and our gang robbed Bikini Bottom's base and killed him and his friend, they geared up to rob our gangbase, despite of rule 5.3 (Your character does not remember any previous enemies (your killer/robber etc)). They did this in retaliation, to bait a gunfight.

When we got the text-message informing us of the robbery at our base we went there and I found Glocx boltcutting our doors, like they do every session.

I told him to stop breaking into our house and that if he didnt comply I would have to knock him out, he complied.

After he pulled out a gun and ran to an ally of ours I informed him that if he harmed any of our guys (later stating, including him (the ally)) we would retailiate (he would be fired upon), he responded to this statement by opening fire and some lives were lost, at which point someone from a distance (K I E R A N) started taking shots at us and killed a few without even the slightest attempt to engage in any sort of RP at all.

We got into our Liason channel on Teamspeak and went on to discuss what happened as we were under the impression that K I E R A N RDM'd us, as he was not involved in the inital encounter.He disagreed and claimed that, as he saw his friend get shot, he was no longer obliged to engage in RP.

Mr. Reminissions came into the channel and confirmed that the situation described above (and in video) does not exempt him from initiating RP before shooting, after he left we asked K I E R A N how he proposed to resolve this.

At this point he started debating the rules that apply on this server, so I figured it was a waste of time trying to resolve this situation with him in person and left the channel.

To clarify, essentialy I dont take issue with the way Glocx handled and I'm only reporting K I E R A N for RDM.

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot)

https://plays.tv/video/5c1316ef9f68614be6/kieran-rdm
This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting

Yes

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans)

Yes

 

[K I E R A N]

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans)

Yes

you answered this one wrong. clearly you wanted to report me as you had no intentions of wanting compensation and stormed out of the ts channel, i asked one simple question and you stormed outa the channel,  https://plays.tv/video/5c13240aa329adf584/storming-off.clearly to me and my friends you only put this report up due to myself reporting you,

we had plans to rob your gangbase when we were doing redzones, then you started to rob our gangbase so we went there and it ended in a gunfight, we didnt even know the gang that was robbing our base, the only person we knew was there was hayden because glocx recognised him, we didnt know the gang or the other players there,

https://plays.tv/video/5c1328720773cd48a4/proof-of-plans-befour-our-death

as soon as you land you was hostile towards glocx multiple armed people run towards him and you also start to lockpick his helli, giving us a limited amount of time to counter initiate, in my own eyes i watch my friend shoot and then get shot and killed in a matter of seconds , i retaliated by shooting back and killing some of your gang.

you straight away threaten to knock him out with no form of proper roleplay, your and your friends are aiming your guns at him wich to me makes it hard for someone to counter your threats as he is immediate danger of loosing his life, 

i shot after glocx was killed and in my eyes when i see my friened get shot and he isnt the one starting the hostile roleplay he dosnt need to say he has friends in the area, i have spoken to many memberas of the community and they also have reassured me that when countering a threat you dont need to say you have friends in the area<02:39:18> "The Original Kieran": 7> "secret person ]": omg
<01:478> secret person]": xD
<01:478> "secret person []": 
<01:51:51> "The Original Kieran": honestly dude
<01:527> "secret person []": xD
<01:52:41> "secret person [7157]": You dont need to freakin counter initiate for friends

i have changed the players name incase he dosnt want to be mentioned in a report, he has been on the server for a long time and he also thinks that when counter initiating you dont need to say you have friends in the area.

 S - if you harm any of my guys, you will be fired upon
are these all your guys?

S - All of them, everybody in this area, correct yes.
Hayden - Even me?
S - Even him.
S - If you harm anyone in this area that is not you or your gang affiliates you will be fired upon.

this right hear shows to me that you knew i was in the area.

after i saw my friend was shot how do you expect me to initiate for myself, im not exactly gunna run over into a active gunfight and start to initiate. i was left with no choice but to open fire to try and protect my own life and to try and help my friend

 

[spoof]

https://plays.tv/video/5c13240aa329adf584/storming-off

I think you are missing the larger part of the conversation, this is where you guys messaged Mr Reminissions to come and clarify.

clearly you wanted to report me as you had no intentions of wanting compensation and stormed out of the ts channel, i asked one simple question and you stormed outa the channel, 

Please re-upload the correct snipped of the teamspeak conversation, especially the part where you argued that "In real life" you would act the way you did now, before we pointed out that there is a lot of things that we would do differently compared than on a Roleplay server. There are rules in place that restrict certain PVP scenario's to enable RP. As for the compensation, we did ask you how you proposed to resolve this, after which you started arguing the server rules.

we had plans to rob your gangbase when we were doing redzones, then you started to rob our gangbase so we went there and it ended in a gunfight, we didnt even know the gang that was robbing our base, the only person we knew was there was hayden because glocx recognised him, we didnt know the gang or the other players there,

https://plays.tv/video/5c1328720773cd48a4/proof-of-plans-befour-our-death

The report isn't for rule 5.3 but thanks for clearing that up.

<01:478> "secret person [7157]": xD
<01:478> "secret person [7157]": 
<01:51:51> "The Original Kieran": honestly dude
<01:527> "secret person [7157]": xD
<01:52:41> "secret person [7157]": You dont need to freakin counter initiate for friends

i have changed the players name incase he dosnt want to be mentioned in a report, he has been on the server for a long time and he also thinks that when counter initiating you dont need to say you have friends in the area.

So first you request clarification from an admin, and when he doesn't rule in your favor you turn to JAEGARN?

 S - if you harm any of my guys, you will be fired upon
are these all your guys?

S - All of them, everybody in this area, correct yes.
Hayden - Even me?
S - Even him.
S - If you harm anyone in this area that is not you or your gang affiliates you will be fired upon.

this right hear shows to me that you knew i was in the area.

 No, I didn't know it was Glocx untill the killfeed said so, i simply stated that on our ship, he is only allowed to harm himself or his gang affiliates, and that if anyone else got harmed by him i would retaliate. In my video it is more than clear that I was not aware of your presence.

after i saw my friend was shot how do you expect me to initiate for myself, im not exactly gunna run over into a active gunfight and start to initiate. i was left with no choice but to open fire to try and protect my own life and to try and help my friend

You could have left the area

You could have RP'ed with us

Shooting was never the only option.

 

[K I E R A N]

The report isn't for rule 5.3 but thanks for clearing that up."

i mentioned this as you mentioned it in the report. we didnt attack you gangbase out of spite or revenge we had already made the plans to do it and i thaught i should show you that it was not because you killed us.

I think you are missing the larger part of the conversation, this is where you guys messaged Mr Reminissions to come and clarify."

this isnt about what reminisions said it about you leaving and saying your going to the forums despite us trying to resolve the situation if you want the full video of the convo feel free to get it yourself.

So first you request clarification from an admin, and when he doesn't rule in your favor you turn to JAEGARN?"

as you see JAGARN   messaged me first and it was befour we had contact with admins,  and whilst he was in your lobby listerning into what you called us to ts about,

You could have left the area" the only way for me to get of the ship is either in the hellicopter that i arrived in or the water and as the ladders to get into the water are on the other side of your ship i had no choice but to open fire i personally dont see a problem i watched with my own eyes yourself and your gangmember pointing and aiming your guns at my  friends head,  do you expect me to just walk away and not do anything after he was killed ??

You could have RP'ed with us"  we are robing a gangbase of course i am going to be set up in a are away from you guys, as you can see in your video you begin your roleplay with threats, if my friend is being threatend im not gunna walk out into the open reveal myself to others to where i am.

Shooting was never the only option. you say this yet you have 3 guys aiming guns at his head, clearly you guys are the instigators of this hostility that erupted not sure how you can say shooting was never a option .if shooting wasnt a option you would of provided a less hostile approach to the roleplay instead of aiming your guns in his face. you gave him a limited amount of time as you was a immediate threat to his life, in this sort of sit do you think if the tables are turned you would of been all pally with him when there guns aimed at your head ? he did what he had to do and when he was shot i then did what i needed to do to protect myself. after shooting my friend you are a immediate threat to my life as you have started a active gunfight and anyone in the area with a gun is KOS

your telling me that if after you killed glocx i had walked out into the open i wouldn't of been shot ??

is it a revenge report ?? 

when countering your threats nowhere in the rules does it state that you need to say you have friends in the area, it is a unwritten rule and as said in my video admins have different views on certain things. 

if you would like to try and have another attempt at resolving this situation tomorrow i am more than willing to, hell i stayed in the channel trying to resolve it with honeybadger and yes we did come to a resolution till i was told that you was adamant that you wanted to report me hence one of the reasons i think this is a revenge report

cheers K I E R A N

 

[spoof]

this isnt about what reminisions said it about you leaving and saying your going to the forums despite us trying to resolve the situation if you want the full video of the convo feel free to get it yourself.

Again, I believe its not the correct video as I cannot hear myself leaving in the video you posted, please review.

the only way for me to get of the ship is either in the hellicopter that i arrived in or the water and as the ladders to get into the water are on the other side of your ship i had no choice but to open fire i personally dont see a problem i watched with my own eyes yourself and your gangmember pointing and aiming your guns at my  friends head,  do you expect me to just walk away and not do anything after he was killed ??

Hayden, your friend, (Allied person in my video) repaired the helicopter, and gave opportunity to leave. Honeybadger (highest command in our gang) also told him he (Glocx) is free to leave but he decided to shoot us instead. and you dont die if you jump into the water from the ship.

Furthermore, as you may have noticed in the video section we enjoy a good Capture and Return, so possibility to get out of there alive was most certainly present. 

Shooting was never the only option. you say this yet you have 3 guys aiming guns at his head, clearly you guys are the instigators of this hostility that erupted not sure how you can say shooting was never a option .if shooting wasnt a option you would of provided a less hostile approach to the roleplay instead of aiming your guns in his face. you gave him a limited amount of time as you was a immediate threat to his life, in this sort of sit do you think if the tables are turned you would of been all pally with him when there guns aimed at your head ?

When he stopped breaking in I lowered my weapon, when he took his gun I started aiming again. Some hostility is to be expected when you are attempting to break into a gangbase, yet he was given a free passage home before he started shooting us.

your telling me that if after you killed glocx i had walked out into the open i wouldn't of been shot ??

Yes, we don't enjoy fragging, we like RP.

 is it a revenge report ?? 

No.

when countering your threats nowhere in the rules does it state that you need to say you have friends in the area, it is a unwritten rule and as said in my video admins have different views on certain things. 

The rule-page isn't a compiler with a trillion if-statements in which every situation is considered, personally I try to see them as guidelines to enhance everyone's playing experience. 

if you would like to try and have another attempt at resolving this situation tomorrow i am more than willing to, hell i stayed in the channel trying to resolve it with honeybadger and yes we did come to a resolution till i was told that you was adamant that you wanted to report me hence one of the reasons i think this is a revenge report

I heard from my guys that you first said you would only be willing to comp the first 2 people you killed and not everyone and later said something along the lines of there being no point in comping anyone as you assumed you would be banned anyway, kept arguing and never came to an agreement.

Seeing as I stopped recording to review what happened before we went to our lobby (and requested a break to review before asking for staff support, which you denied) and therefor don't have the conversation recorded, could you/Glocx upload the entire conversation?

 

[K I E R A N]

Again, I believe its not the correct video as I cannot hear myself leaving in the video you posted, please review.Hayden, your friend, (Allied person in my video)

yup just realized hear is the propper one  https://plays.tv/video/5c13a9f96031fa949a/here-ya-goo

When he stopped breaking in I lowered my weapon, when he took his gun I started aiming again. Some hostility is to be expected when you are attempting to break into a gangbase, yet he was given a free passage home before he started shooting us.

i agree yes he was offered free passage only after you threaten his life,

I heard from my guys that you first said you would only be willing to comp the first 2 people you killed and not everyone and later said something along the lines of there being no point in comping anyone as you assumed you would be banned anyway, kept arguing and never came to an agreement.

not sure they are my own words , in my eyes this is how i see it , if your going to put a report up why would i waste my time in comping someone when clearly it isnt resolved

Yes, we don't enjoy fragging, we like RP.

if you doont like fragging why would you approach him with hostility , if you didnt want this to turn into a gunfight maybe being a bit friendlier would be the best approach.

i agree yes it was a bit shitty, but i do not see it as a breach of the rules, i am willing to compensate YOU and only YOU as you was the first one i killed anyone after that is fair game.

if you would like to try and have another attempt at resolving this situation tomorrow i am more than willing to, hell i stayed in the channel trying to resolve it with honeybadger and yes we did come to a resolution till i was told that you was adamant that you wanted to report me hence one of the reasons i think this is a revenge report

again would you like to speak and have another attempt at solving this ??

 

[spoof]

You keep uploading partials and present little to no arguments, I'd like to leave this to a staff member.

 

[K I E R A N]

You keep uploading partials and present little to no arguments, I'd like to leave this to a staff member.

I’m uploading what I need to upload not my fault you stopped recording, you have already stated what was said in the liaison so why is a video needed ??

 

[spoof]

I’m uploading what I need to upload

Exactly, and to me, sharing the bare minimum whilst I share the entire situation from my perspective (combined with the fact you only intent on comping one person you killed and not those affected by your actions) doesn't show willingness to resolve it together.

From now on I'll only respond to staff questions.

 

[K I E R A N]

Exactly, and to me, sharing the bare minimum whilst I share the entire situation from my perspective (combined with the fact you only intent on comping one person you killed and not those affected by your actions) doesn't show willingness to resolve it together.

From now on I'll only respond to staff questions.

I was more than willing to comp you and Hayden yesterday if that’s what you want then I’m willing to come you both, but I am not willing to come the people that landed in the helicopter a few mins later as that was a disision that they made to come in after you was shot. All I can do is apologise for the way it ended, and would appreciate it if you would accept my apology and my word that it wouldn’t happen again. 

 

[KingGodDiabloZ]

Your report is currently being reviewed, Please be patient while the evidence is reviewed

Please keep checking this report regularly just in case the reviewing staff member has any questions

Thank you for your report and you doing your part to keep our community clean!

 

[KingGodDiabloZ]

I will not conclude this report yet since there is still a few question open to me.

@spoof You state to Glocx "If you harm anyone else apart from your friends gang/allies you will be fired upon". Here you acknowledge the possibility of gang members of Glocx being around. However after you get shot you suddenly claim it is RDM? I fail to understand how you first acknowledge that there might be gang members around and after that you suddenly claim it is RDM? Were you waiting for the "magic words" of "I have friend in the area"? 

@K I E R A N You uploaded 2 short clips of a grey screen and you breathing and clicking and in one video I can hear you speak about getting reminissions in. I fail to understand what these videos are supposed to add. If you could clear this up for me that would be perfect!

@Glocx When browsing one of the clips provided I found a video that KIERAN uploaded in which he showed his view of the situation. However in this video I can clearly hear that you are giving information to KIERAN over teamspeak which you do not hot-mic ingame. This including "They have threatened my life" "get ready to shoot". Care to explain?

 

[K I E R A N]

@KingGodDiabloZ the videos that you are talking about were badly edited I didn’t edit the clips in the right place there for all your hear is heavy breathing and a grey screen I re uploaded a proper video which is in one of my previous responses. 

cheers K I E RA N

 

[Glocx]

@KingGodDiabloZ Firstly, i'm fully aware of all server rules and now looking back on the situation I am now aware that I did not hot mic communicating with Kieran ( rule 3.5), which I normally do in every other role-play scenario I'm in. Since the role-play situation was on the verge of being a full out gunfight and how many people were surrounding me I felt it was very overwhelming and this may have affected my role-play (failing to Hot-mic) due to me being in panic. Furthermore even tho I regularly hot mic my comms to others around me for this brief couple of seconds It must of slipped my mind, however I'm not going to make excuses and admit for this single scenario and single scenario alone I did fail to hot-mic to Kieran. In future I will continue to hot mic as I normally do. I'm very sorry to the people around me that I did not hot mic the 2 brief sentences I said to my other gang member therefore alliterating the outcome of the situation.

Glocx

 

[spoof]

You state to Glocx "If you harm anyone else apart from your friends gang/allies you will be fired upon". Here you acknowledge the possibility of gang members of Glocx being around. However after you get shot you suddenly claim it is RDM? I fail to understand how you first acknowledge that there might be gang members around and after that you suddenly claim it is RDM?

 I indeed said "If you harm anyone in this area that is not you or your gang affiliates you will be fired upon" to let him know we would defend ourselves if he would attempt to harm us. I don't see this as direct threat to his life as he isn't being forced to choose to do X or Y or being shot, nor do I see it as an acknowledgement of us being aware of the fact that K I E R A N is hiding in the area. In my raw-footage from beginning to end it is clear that we didn't see him or were informed about it.  And as no communications were hot-mic'ed we had no reason to suspect so. 

We were not looking for a gunfight and even attempted to de-escalate the situation and gave opportunity for him to leave. 

Were you waiting for the "magic words" of "I have friend in the area"? 

I wouldn't say I was waiting for it, but In every group-liason I've ever been in I've been told that if you intend to start shooting and are not alone, you must mention/make clear that you are not alone in this situation. (Which would have been clear if "get ready to shoot, K I E R A N" was hotmic'd) Or is this incorrect?

 

[KingGodDiabloZ]

So let's conclude this report.

So first of all from the video I can see that Spoof and his gangmates are responding to a break-in in their gang-base. From the start on the situation has been hostile. With a few people having weapons out/pointing weapons out each other. This creates a very hostile environment. A few words are exchanged between Glocx and Spoof says "If you harm anyone in this area that is not you or your gang/affiliates you will be fired upon.". In here you acknowledged the possibility of gang members being in the area. And you cannot afterwords use the excuse "Well I didn't know he had gang mates in the area". As a roleplay community we do not live by the magic words of "I have friends in the area" since that is more ruleplay than roleplay. You acknowledged before there was a possibility there were gang members involved and took the risks when shooting at Glocx. This doesn't mean that this opens up options for everyone to go "Well I have a big gun so people can assume I'm from a big gang" absolutely not. However every situation is very different. Wouldn't you have acknowledged at first that Glocx might have had gang members this situation would have been a lot different. Also the claim made by Kieran that @JAEGARN stated you do not need to "counter-initiate" for friends seems irrelevant to this report. Jaegern isn't a staff member and I can confidently say that he wasn't involved in this situation. So in the end was what Kieran did perfect. No. However I feel that this is mostly caused by Glocx and not by Kieran. So I will not find Kieran guilty of RDM however I will remind him to be sure that when a friend is engaged on that proper roleplay making you eligable to shoot has actually started and that you need to remember to ensure that it is known to the opposing party that gang members/allies are expected. 

In this video and other evidence that I have found I found something else. In additional evidence that I have found on a plays.tv account I can clearly hear Glocx say: "Get ready to shoot Kieran", "Allright they have initiated on my life, and something along the lines of draw them to you." "Hold on" and "Will do". However when looking at the video of Spoof I can clearly see that none of this was hotmiced in-game. Would this have been hot-miced in game then the situation would have turned out to be a lot different most likely. And kieran could safely assume that by this hotmicing the opposing party would have been made aware as well of his presence on top of them acknowleding he is there. Therefore I feel that Glocx is in breach of rule 3.5.

About the shooting itself I think this could have been done better by Glocx as well. Most of the talking was done by Spoof and him making some threats. In the future for Glocx try to be a bit more aggresive especially since you were the one taking the first step in engaging on them with force and be sure to CLEARLY state that you have gang members/allies in the area. Since in this situation Spoof acknowledges gang members possibly being in the area it turned out not too bad but it could have resulted in a punishment for Kieran as well. 

Also for Spoof. This awfully seems like a revenge report. Kieran's report on you has been concluded 4 days before this report came up. From the statement that Kieran gave it seems a lot that you weren't really up for resolving but decided to report this instantly. Be careful with this.. 

Onto the conclusions:

Kieran: Remember to always ensure you are in the right when taking a shot at someone. Even though by accident it turned out right here it might not in the future. 

Glocx: Official warning for 3.5 noted down on battlemetrics. 

 

[KingGodDiabloZ]

Your report has been dealt with, but perhaps not in the way you originally envisaged.

Whether this is beneficial or disadvantageous to you will depend entirely on the situation, and staff will have taken the most-appropriate action in the circumstances.