Report a player - Danny Mclovin - GTA RP

[dingbatL]

Server: GTA RP
Your Character Name: lew cloud
Reported Players: Danny Mclovin
Date: Aug 13, 2024
Time: 01:17
What best describes this incident: NLR.. Metagaming?
Please (in detail) describe the incident: Danny had been killed off from cutlass, prior to this he had keys to my house, a known place within cutlass where things are kept. after being killed off i never changed the locks to my house because in roleplay a DEAD man cant enter my house with the keys he had.. with that being said danny mclovin done just that, he had entered my house and taken a bag full of guns.. i believe this to be a clear breach of NLR and possibly metagaming.. as the danny that got killed off shouldnt of known where my house is. metagaming becuase he has used the map to justify the finding of my house in rp and knowing that a "key" that could have fit any door in roleplay but decides to try mine, we are in a "beef" atm and i think this goes to show the lengths they use to try "win" situations.
thanks to whoevers reading this.
Link(s) To Any Evidence: ticket number 24600

 

[Danny McLovin]

I'm going to start of by doing my best here to give a cohesive recollection of the events leading up to this report. Before I do however I also want to make one thing clear, this report makes it out as if I was killed off and then immediately went to rob Lewis's house, this is not the case.

I left Cutlass on 23/05 and was swiftly stripped of any OOC communication channels and I more or less completely removed myself from any social interactions with the group in RP.

I was killed off from Cutlass on the 13/07 following a shoot-out by the taxi rank, I was aware that Kash had given the order to do this since I was still in the Cutlass Group chat (the message was well in advance) which gave me plenty of time to ensure my affairs were in order.

on the 29/07 me and Kay Smith were out gathering resources to make pistol ammo, this is when we decided to check houses for any stray gunpowder and eventually came around to your house.

Im not sure where the metagaming claim comes in? There was no way for me to know what was inside that house at any given time. The bag was found inside an open container by the entrance of the house, if you can give me further clarification on where this breach happened it would be much appreciated.

Further onto the NLR accusations, the rule reads the following:
you still remember your friends, vehicles, houses, stashes, etc but have no memory of anyone involved in the situation leading to your respawn.

16 days passed since my death, 68 days since I left the group which I think is a fair amount of time for you to change keys and remove any access that my character might have had. Keep in mind that throughout this time, where I was not involved with cutlass, I had full access to the group chat and the house in question. I would like to mention that this isn't the first time an ex-member has robbed a cutlass house so I was rather surprised that you allowed me to keep the keys.

It has always been my understanding, and I believe generally accepted by the community that what we as players are given in game is safe to use within RP. The house in question was indeed marked on my map and although I visited a couple of times after I had left the group I intentionally didn't after I was killed off as to give you a fair chance to remove my character like was done with the group chat. Within RP of course my character doesn't know who the owner of the house is and has made no reference to it being yours or even related to Cutlass but that doesn't change the fact that I was able to make my way inside of the house.

I am not going to entertain your accusations about my group, it seems inappropriate for a report a player.

I would also like to thank the staff team for letting me explain my side of this as I was worried I would not be allowed the opportunity based on this screenshot sent to me by lewis:

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[dingbatL]

i dont know why im removing a key so a dead man can enter and steal my stuff, im glad you are showing our dms, we are good friends ooc and thought id ask why you done this, you only knew me/ my house through cutlass, you being killed off you forget anything and everything to do with the gang

Further onto the NLR accusations, the rule reads the following:
you still remember your friends, vehicles, houses, stashes, etc but have no memory of anyone involved in the situation leading to your respawn.

this is correct, the key word being "YOUR" i believe that house was mine

"I would like to mention that this isn't the first time an ex-member has robbed a cutlass house so I was rather surprised that you allowed me to keep the keys."
yacob was never killed off from the gang, this would be the first time a dead member has robbed us

id like to also say you went into other (ex)cutlass members houses.. this inculding alexia carters house and maybe more, whom you also should have no memory of

 

[Danny McLovin]

Me and @dingbatL had a liaison where we spoke about this report and situation. I explained my side and recognized that it was a scummy move within RP, since we both agreed that it was in our interest to continue ongoing RP I offered to simply return the guns to him as per this forum post by staff lead Gordon: https://www.roleplay.co.uk/threads/lets-talk-liaisons.420236/#post-2457791

I came out of the liaison thinking that we had agreed and that both parties were happy with this solution but after I opened a ticket (#2504) to include staff in what was happening he changed his tune and decided that he would rather see the report actioned by staff. This reveal came after he claimed he had attempted to resolve the matter with staff himself but was advised against it?

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For the record, I'm still happy to go through with doing the compensation myself!

About the situation with Alexia, I think it brings up a good question. In the past when members of Cutlass have been killed off I've witnessed not only their houses but also cars in our shared garage being raided. I mention this because a current cutlass member confirmed to me that after General was killed off (RIP) you proceeded to take out his cars and other things you had access to that you knew he would store guns in and other items that held any value and you robbed it from him after he was killed off.

In my opinion, this poses similar issues as what happened here where the situation is very difficult for one party to pursue in RP since it becomes very hard (although not impossible) to investigate or have a reasonable chance to protect yourself from being stripped of your assets. My understanding is now that this is acceptable to do in rp but not the other way around?

 

[dingbatL]

So if you're agreeing it was wrong and against the rules what is all the extra bravado about? I feel you've took advantage of the situation and exploited the fact that we can't actually kill your character, gang hoping would be seen as absurd within the criminal underworld so by killing you off is our way of addressing situations like this. By you not following the Roleplay we're stuck. I believe it's important to address this report because you seem to still think it was ok, ofc you would be happy to compensate me still, this is because you simply know you have done wrong, also the part about us and general, thats our provocative, that doesnt mean that you can remember things and people you would have no recollection of, and i think thats the main issue at hand.

 

[Drex]

Hello!
To prevent the risk of this report having pages upon pages with back-and-forth responses, unless there's specifics about the report such as evidence etc, I ask that commenting is done in a more restricted manner.

As you've mentioned compensation for the actions made;
If you wish to discuss alternative solutions and resolve this matter on your own; Feel free to do so in Discord or TeamSpeak, and update us here with the result of this, but note that this is completely optional.

This guide/topic might be of use!

 

[dingbatL]

Hello!
To prevent the risk of this report having pages upon pages with back-and-forth responses, unless there's specifics about the report such as evidence etc, I ask that commenting is done in a more restricted manner.

As you've mentioned compensation for the actions made;
If you wish to discuss alternative solutions and resolve this matter on your own; Feel free to do so in Discord or TeamSpeak, and update us here with the result of this, but note that this is completely optional.

This guide/topic might be of use!

after speaking with danny and isak in a seperate ticket, i asked for the report to be continued as per usual, as the items going missing is not the problem per say but meerly the fact it happend in the first place, as this is a serious roleplay server and nothing about this situation screams serious nor roleplay.

 

[Danny McLovin]

Hello Drex, I appreciate you taking the time to review the report!

As I mentioned in my previous response, I referred to the same post you linked when Lewis and I discussed the matter.

In the Discord liaison that Lewis called in the groups discord, we checked in with each other, checking we were both doing well. Then, we discussed the situation in more detail. Towards the end of our conversation, Lewis mentioned that he wished it was possible to take a different route instead of reporting, but that he felt compelled to do so. That’s when I suggested the possibility of compensating him myself by returning the weapons (this is when i linked the post by Gordon), he seemed Happy with this solution at the time. However, this may not have been the case after all? As we continued our conversation through DM's we both tried to find ways to carry this out. Lewis Told me that he would open a ticket or add me to the existing one to discuss resolving the matter with staff involvement.

Later I asked him for an update, and he informed me that compensating him myself was "a big NOPE." Assuming that he had read Gordons post, I was confused and decided to open a ticket of my own. Isac confirmed that compensation was allowed and a legitimate way to resolve the situation as long as both parties agreed. This is when Lewis, suddenly changed his mind.

My initial response explains my interpretation of the rules and game mechanics at the time. However, one thing I failed to consider was the lack of opportunity for him to "investigate" who took the weapons since, to him, my character is dead. I assumed he would be able to work around this, as my character was the only one not in Cutlass with keys—something that would make him a prime suspect. But it seems that was a bit too far-fetched.

I don’t think I have anything more to add unless you have any further questions for me.

 

[dingbatL]

My initial response explains my interpretation of the rules and game mechanics at the time. However, one thing I failed to consider was the lack of opportunity for him to "investigate" who took the weapons since, to him, my character is dead. I assumed he would be able to work around this, as my character was the only one not in Cutlass with keys—something that would make him a prime suspect. But it seems that was a bit too far-fetched.

your character, the only one with keys is dead, you can see how this is more than problematic, there is no RP here whatsoever!

also what changed your mind? did someone influence you to open a ticket? https://gyazo.com/36acb2ecc77543c1efb46e6d017551cf
not once have you appoligised either, what you have done in my eyes ruined my roleplay

 

[Danny McLovin]

I never changed my mind, I offered to return the weapons which I'm still willing to do, the only reason I opened a ticket was due to confusion. I don't know what you're trying to say here.

I thought we were good considering the liaison, but I do apologize for affecting your RP this way!

 

[Scott]

Good evening all,

G4.3 is alleged to have been broken, and from reading it looks like both parties have recognised the breach and the reported party has attempted to seek an alternative resolution/compensation, which for clarification is perfectly fine and in line with Gordon's post.

In this context, because the house belongs to a Cutlass member and you were killed off by Cutlass and thus any relationships, knowledge, or assets, gained from Cutlass die with that relationship, NLR has been broken.

To Cutlass, Danny McLovin (The one they knew) is dead. Why would they think to remove a dead man's keys, it's likely still on his body and wherever it was 'buried' (In other words, gone). The point is, you don't have the keys. Mechanically, you do, because it's not been manually removed from your character. You cannot remove individual people from access to your house as you have to 'change the locks' and reissue new keys, all for £40,000 each, there's no expectation Lew should be required by staff or the rules to do this. Why would one change the locks because of a dead man? If the shoe was on the other foot, I'm sure Danny would agree, it just doesn't make sense.

I would like to cover something mentioned in the replies too;

"About the situation with Alexia, I think it brings up a good question. In the past when members of Cutlass have been killed off I've witnessed not only their houses but also cars in our shared garage being raided. I mention this because a current cutlass member confirmed to me that after General was killed off (RIP) you proceeded to take out his cars and other things you had access to that you knew he would store guns in and other items that held any value and you robbed it from him after he was killed off.

In my opinion, this poses similar issues as what happened here where the situation is very difficult for one party to pursue in RP since it becomes very hard (although not impossible) to investigate or have a reasonable chance to protect yourself from being stripped of your assets. My understanding is now that this is acceptable to do in rp but not the other way around?"

If this is true, it sounds quite scummy and unsportsmanlike, however, this doesn't justify your actions @Danny McLovin, but I appreciate you trying to bring the comparison forward as it's a fair one to make.

Action Taken - Report Approved

Char ID: 81503
Rulebreak(s): G4.3
Action: Warning