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Report a Player - CI Arrow - RDM

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Nik Kaden

Nik Kaden

Well-known member
Location
Pluto
Your In-game name

Nik Kaden

Name of the player(s) you are reporting

CI Arrow

Date of the incident

20/11/18

Time of the incident (GMT)

19

What best describes this incident ?

RDM

Which server did the incident take place on

Server 1

Please (in detail) describe the incident

Arrow arrived to a sitation wich already was started and at 0:50 he takes a gun out wich shifts the scenario from the downed guy to arrow because he can shoot us so we take our guns out too he states he has called for backup and then says(at 1:40) "if u try and picklock my car, i will have to pop you open and i don't really want that." aethon responds with "if you don't put your gun on your back we will have to pop you, and i don't mean to shoot" then Arrow just goes into the bush and starts to shoot at us as we attempt to leave. As you can see we were RPing with the downed officier and when the situation turned hostile we attempted to leave, then without any intiation on the vehicle or our lives we were shot at and killed.

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcf0kux2-ao&feature=youtu.be
This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting

Yes

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans)

Yes

 
Not too sure why this report has happened, we spoke about this for over 40+ minutes and thought it was resolved but I guess not. This is a breakdown of the situation from my point of view:

I arrive at the situation and see my dear colleague on the floor with a gun to his head. He states that the people in the video present, are trying to kill him so I start taking steps to prevent this and save my officers life. I pull my weapon to incase it goes south due to the fact they had their weapons out. I thought I saw one of the members of the gang picklocking my car so I shouted "If you pick lock my car i'm going to pop you!". Now i know this was wrong and very un-policeman like, I have received a warning from a CC about the situation and it won't happen ever again. I don't have an excuse for this, I am human I make mistakes.

These guys then started to setup around my car and take a more aggressive stance towards me. I realised this and called in backup while edging back towards soft cover (reeds). You can hear in the video that they wanted to kidnap me which confirms my suspicions. A man called @Aethon then proceeds to counter initiate by saying "If you don't put your gun on your back, we are going to pop you but not kill you!". Now I assumed he meant shoot me due to the fact that he had a gun point at me. Also pop is a slang word for kill in some cultures.

I then see an AR car appear on my GPS so after he initiates on me I run towards a suitable firing position within the reeds and open-fire on the rebels. They shoot back and are swiftly taken care of by Armed Response units. Sadly I only had a Vermin so I was quite useless.

I was then brought into a liason about 30 minutes later with these guys calling me out for RDM. They stated they made no initiation and didn't consider their "If you don't put your gun on your back, we are going to pop you but not kill you!" initiation as good enough initiation for me to do what I did, my reasoning for taking this as initiation is stated previously. Now i'm not expert but this could possibly be taken as power-gaming because saying you are going to shoot me but not kill me is like saying "I'm going to punch you but not hit you"! How else is a cop supposed to take this? If I had done nothing I would of died and so would of my officer so I took the element of surprise and took the first shot.

To quote Nik on the fact they tried to run away, they could of easily ran away and took up a better position to shoot me and my remaining officers. This is the main reason, i assume, Armed Response gave chase, to prevent a worse situation breaking out.

As said earlier, I can't see why this report has gone up. I personally think this is just a way to try and squeeze blood from a stone, due to the fact I denied you comp during the liaison, after you threatened to report me if I didn't. Or to quote Heisenberg (not sure on his @) "If they don't get comp, we will take it too a third party". Now the only other "third party" that can handle this situation is admins. Which is why I assume this has gone up. I am sorry you feel hard done by but it was just a crappy situation from both sides. I don't personally believe either side did anything wrong, except from my poor rp but I have acknowledged that and have been punished accordingly!

If I have done something wrong then I am happy to offer comp for the loadouts lost or take the punishment as it comes.

Thanks for taking the time to read my point of view,

CI Arrow
East Altis Constabulary

 
Personally I at no point felt a lethal initiation had been made, nor sufficient roleplay to warrant shooting. I clearly stated to CI Arrow that I would not shoot him, after I realised he could have interpreted the word 'pop' to mean shoot, so I don't believe there could have been confusion over that.

We were leaving the situation, and no initiation or sufficient roleplay was made. It's not so much about the need to be compensated for lost gear as it is that poor RP from the police can really ruin enjoyment of a situation.

You could make the argument that the Armed Response units weren't RDMing since they didn't make the initiation - but if a rebel makes a bad/low RP initiation and a gunfight breaks out, all the members of the gang can get banned for RDM/low RP, and I don't believe that 'one rule for rebels another for the rozzers' makes for a healthy community.

 
As Arrow mentioned me (Heisenberg) 

CI Arrow said:
after you threatened to report me if I didn't. Or to quote Heisenberg (not sure on his @) "If they don't get comp, we will take it too a third party". 
Click to expand...
I cant believe you lied in this public post. I didnt threatend anyone. I just said " Rebel side is still not satisfied and they still believe that you did wrong and for them only normal solution to this is saying sorry  and comp them if you are honest.if you dont comp and say sorry to them bc of your poor RP/RDM they are not ganna get satisfyed and we need to ask someone not "police" to comment on situation from outside (thirth party).

I cant believe that when you see this report you started accusing ppl to cover up your mistake. You already admit that you punished for poor RP from a CC, so if you are honest you can comp rebels and say sorry bc you made a mistake. That was what i said in liason and you know it. I was trying to satisfy both sides but you didnt care about the otherside.

 
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we were in liason right after the incident had taken place and Dan Barreto told us to come back when our video had been uploaded. So we returned after 30 minutes like what Arrow said. What Aethon did by saying"if you don't put your gun on your back we will have to pop you, and i don't mean to shoot" was a counter on what Arrow has said before Aethon. What was said in the Liason by someone i do not know who was: "I'm just trying to satisfy everyone and if they aren't satisfied i think they are gonna let a third party decide." and after this i will +1 on everythin aethon has said.

 
Bobbit1 said:
As Arrow mentioned me (Heisenberg) 

I cant believe you lied in this public post. I didnt threatend anyone. I just said " Rebel side is still not satisfied and they still believe that you did wrong and for them only normal solution to this is saying sorry  and comp them if you are honest.if you dont comp and say sorry to them bc of your poor RP/RDM they are not ganna get satisfyed and we need to ask someone not "police" to comment on situation from outside (thirth party).

I cant believe that when you see this report you started accusing ppl to cover up your mistake. You already admit that you punished for poor RP from a CC, so if you are honest you can comp rebels and say sorry bc you made a mistake. That was what i said in liason and you know it. I was trying to satisfy both sides but you didnt care about the otherside.
Click to expand...
I haven't lied those were the words that came out of your mouth pal. I apologised for the poor roleplay however in my eyes, you didn't deserve comp as you reacted with a lethal initiation. Thats enough from me I'll let the admins decide my fate.

 
Bobbit1 said:
" Rebel side is still not satisfied and they still believe that you did wrong and for them only normal solution to this is saying sorry  and comp them if you are honest.if you dont comp and say sorry to them bc of your poor RP/RDM they are not ganna get satisfyed and we need to ask someone not "police" to comment on situation from outside (thirth party)."
Click to expand...


Nik Kaden said:
 "I'm just trying to satisfy everyone and if they aren't satisfied i think they are gonna let a third party decide." 
Click to expand...
I said those things above. And its clearly not threatning. I was there to find a common ground but you refused it. Why do i want to threaten you ,i was not even in the situation. Just like Ponty , i was there to solve that thing on the liason but it didnt worked. That was my last thing, im off from this topic.

 
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Your report is currently being reviewed, Please be patient while the evidence is reviewed

Please keep checking this report regularly just in case the reviewing staff member has any questions

Thank you for your report and you doing your part to keep our community clean!

giphy.gif


 
So, what I can see is an extended interaction where weapons are drawn, pointed at each other and things accelerated into hostilities after the SGT on the ground indicated that he felt his life was threatened. 

I would like to remind you all that "Initiation" is "initiation". While I like many others don't particularly like the use of the word, threatening to knock someone out is the same as shooting them dead. Threatening to taze, similiarly thought of. 

"It doesn't have to end this way" 
To the reply 
"mines bigger than yours" 

Multiple instructions are given to the officer, such as "don't call in all units" while your weapons are pointed at him, then you say you're going to pop him. Regardless of what you meant, you gave him instructions and he didn't comply. The situation/interaction was hostile  from the get go and there was evident roleplay taking place. 

Is there something I am missing, 

On the subject of things that were missing...

@Aethon, @Bobbit1, @Nik Kaden Which of you ask who can take @CI Arrow hostage, and who is it that replies? 
 

 
@Qrow in the video I believe it was me who asked if I could take the CI however I am unsure who it was who responded at this time. I do now realise that I wasn't speaking in game and do take full responsibility for this however it wasn't malicious and was an honest mistake on my end . The only reason this happened is due to the fact I forgot to hold my in game push to talk while I was talking on TS as they are different buttons on opposite sides of my keyboard, this isn't something that normally happens and I will be taking measure to ensure this doesn't happen again. 

 
Qrow said:
So, what I can see is an extended interaction where weapons are drawn, pointed at each other and things accelerated into hostilities after the SGT on the ground indicated that he felt his life was threatened. 

I would like to remind you all that "Initiation" is "initiation". While I like many others don't particularly like the use of the word, threatening to knock someone out is the same as shooting them dead. Threatening to taze, similiarly thought of. 

Multiple instructions are given to the officer, such as "don't call in all units" while your weapons are pointed at him, then you say you're going to pop him. Regardless of what you meant, you gave him instructions and he didn't comply. The situation/interaction was hostile  from the get go and there was evident roleplay taking place. 
 
Click to expand...
@Qrow just for clarification since the rules on initiation aren't particularly clear, if someone orders you to do something while pointing a gun at you, is that an 'implicit' threat to shoot? Just trying to understand the rules here

 
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Alternative Action

Aethon & Cammy - You have been identified, Cammy by your own admission, and Aethon by me having do to the leg work of not hot miking relevant information. 

(3.5) You must hot-mic all communications that have been made over teamspeak when they are relevant to influencing the course of roleplay. This means that if you are communicating to fellow team members via Teamspeak and you are in audio proximity range of another player (they can hear you), you must hot mic any commands given so the rival player can overhear. This rule does not apply if both sides are engaged in a gunfight together.

The staff team take this very seriously. However watching the situation and the way in which the situation develops, I do not believe this altered the course of hostilities too much from what would have certainly been the outcome had you communicated your intent. 
In that regard you will both be receiving a warning on your player profile for this. 

@Aethon The only place in the rules where initiate is mentioned is rule (2.1) Vehicle Deathmatch (also known as VDM) - Using any vehicle as a weapon (e.g running people over, causing explosions including while sling loading, ramming, etc), will result in you receiving a ban. Three vehicles are excluded from this, MRAPS (Ifrits, Hunters and Striders) can ram other MRAPS in order to disable them, yet not to kill the passengers. This is allowed as these vehicles are the only vehicles ingame that can withstand being rammed. Please note that you need to initiate roleplay before attempting to ram an MRAP. (Please note - MRAPS don't need to be initiated on in the redzone) This is to prevent random ramming on site. (Three minutes of chasing also constitutes initiation of MRAP and MRAP ramming).

To clarify, you must attempt to communicate instructions in roleplay that you wish the vehicle to stop (Or another command), or you will engage upon it. Similiar in structure to how ATC's are sent, with a clear instruction and a threat if the instruction is not followed. 


What I actually think you meant was can I clarify this: 
(7.1.3) Killing someone must be carried out with high quality roleplay, “put your hands up or I will shoot” etc is considered low quality RP and may lead to a ban for RDM/Fail RP. Executing another player must also be carried out with high quality roleplay, the only exception to this rule is if both you and the victim are engaged in a gunfight together.

This rule speaks for itself. High quality roleplay. This is all encompassing of your entire situation. It does not have anything to do with you verbalising your intention to shoot the other party. It is "assessed" if you could even describe it as such as how your hostile roleplay comes across. 
Obviously, if you spend 30 minutes talking to someone about their new shoes, and then tell them to get their hands up before shooting them. That would not constitute high quality roleplay. 

I'm afraid there is no step by step, or "roleplay for dummies" in this situation and it is up to you to ensure all your interactions have high quality roleplay. 

 
Your report has been dealt with, but perhaps not in the way you originally envisaged.

Whether this is beneficial or disadvantageous to you will depend entirely on the situation, and staff will have taken the most-appropriate action in the circumstances.

 
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