Report a player - Apostles - GTA RP

[Richard]

Report a player 

Your In-game Name: Connor Connards

Name and/or ID of the player(s) you are reporting: Apostles

Which server did the incident take place on: GTA RP

Date of the incident: 07/23/23

Time of the incident (GMT) 24hr Format: 2230

What best describes this incident ?: Mass RDM

Please (in detail) describe the incident: Made my way back into the city following a long pursuit with 229 and several other Police. Went to Pillbox as an officer panicked to find out he was only stung with some random stingers left in the road. Han Zimo hit his panic button just around the corner from Pillbox. I was the first officer on scene, with Han not replying to us on freq. He ended up just saying "Those guys, those two," with a break in his speech, to then finish with "they shot me, again, white Reaper."

I tried to start a pursuit with the Reaper but due to a taxi that magically appeared, I fell back some distance. Thankfully, I caught back up even with the Reaper being a powerful vehicle in itself. I was looking forward to a long pursuit as I knew the two vehicles (Police Jaguar and Reaper) would be an interesting match. I was slightly surprised when the driver turned into the Church car park as I initially thought he was going to take us away from the city and up Great Ocean Highway. None the less, I carried on as he could use the graveyard to try and out-manoeuvre me. Unbeknown to me, he decided to turn around and shoot me square in the face. In the video, you can hear my surprise and I am genuinely confused as to why this happened.

I am very disappointed in the avenue of roleplay that they chose to take with no quality form of roleplay. I had hopes for a protracted pursuit but instead got a bullet to the dome.

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot):



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWhRBfQl4fo



This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!: Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting: No

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans): Yes

 

[Father]

First and foremost, thank you for ignoring our OOC message to liaise. I can clearly see that this report is just either farming karma on the forums or reporting for losing a situation (as seen previously in all your reports) https://imgur.com/nWWHxc3

After you arrived at Han Zimo's Panic, you asked him what happened. And he answered you that they shot him AGAIN, this would mean this happened at least 2 times so fully knowing you are chasing 2 cars that shot at Han Zimo at least 2 times, you should be aware that this situation can or will involve FIREARMS yet you claim to be surprised that you got shot at, your situational awareness isn't up to par, with some of the others as can be seen.

You stated - I was looking forward to a long pursuit as I knew the two vehicles (Police Jaguar and Reaper) would be an interesting match. This is ideally the way you want the scenario, but unfortunately, you do know RP is dynamic and a lot can happen, and not always go the way you want & I feel like you just didn't adapt to the situation that was unfolding.

Did I want to fight the police? - No, the last last last thing we ever want to do as Apostles is fight the police as it's totally against our image.

before you even received a shot, there was a firearms vehicle that went to the big car park of the chapel, decamped with a weapon, went around the back of the building that has the underground with the cocaine benches, and made a move on our members and shot, this is what causes scenarios to go "crazy" the same follows on the police radio, people tend to go into panic and shout on radio what's going on, and when they hear/see shots being blasted, their reaction and what they should do as a group member is to "protect" their own.

Last but not least as Apostles, we pride ourselves In RP, we always prioritize roleplay over gunplay or anything else, Tonight we went around and spent roughly an hour and a half going to different locations, from Marabunta to lost mc to Ottos, to tire nuts and to AE and multiple random encounters, stopping people and giving our "holy water" and "communion bread" and preaching prayers to the people and then eventually moving on to the next location, Upon making our return to the chapel, we saw a "baldie" as people would call them in the server and we dediced to stop and help the poor guy and read some prayers to him, when that happened G6 Han Zimo rammed into every single one of our cars and started to impound them for no reason, he was getting a bit aggersive at the time ( some of our members even wanted to deal with him on the spot, but we don't want to give the image that we just shoot and roleplay later, so we tried everything we could do in RP to make him stop, afterwards one of our ex apostles (who may be returning to the server for good , i hope), he was then kidnapped by Han Zimo and it was a funny situation at the time so we decided to take his tyres out and then chase, when we caught up to him, we couldve easily shot him on the spot, considering the terms "inination" was already done, but no we decided to box him in, and demand he hands our member back over, even police were there, and still heavily out numbered by our members , but even then why would we just go with the simple RP and shoot, we told the officers, we aren't aggersive people, we want our member back and we will leave, which is what we done.

Afterward, we made a plan to go get Han Zimo, which turned out to be him getting shot, after that we made the plan to flee and get back to the chapel as quickly as we could, which is where you and the other officers responded to & that situation unfolded.

Staff's time is very valuable to this community and voluntary and I feel like this could easily have been solved over a call, rather than the forums.

(you can have recordings of our entire night from start to finish if you please) 

 

[Richard]

you claim to be surprised that you got shot at, your situational awareness isn't up to par

Absolutely. I had no interaction with yous. There was no form of communication, nor was there escalation from either side. It was just a straight shot which erupted into a whole gunfight. Simply because Han had been shot, doesn’t mean the whole of police responding to a panic alarm gets shot straight away. There was no clear reason as to why he was shot, who he was shot by (only when you turned up towards the Church did it become somewhat apparent), or if it was just him involved in that scenario or lots of other people.

This is ideally the way you want the scenario, but unfortunately, you do know RP is dynamic and a lot can happen, and not always go the way you want & I feel like you just didn't adapt to the situation that was unfolding.

I partially agree. I did ideally  want it to go into a pursuit of some sort. This creates some fun snd tense moments for both sides. Apostles think they are going to get caught, and Police are worried they will get away. 
 

before you even received a shot, there was a firearms vehicle that went to the big car park of the chapel, decamped with a weapon, went around the back of the building that has the underground with the cocaine benches, and made a move on our members and shot, this is what causes scenarios to go "crazy" the same follows on the police radio, people tend to go into panic and shout on radio what's going on, and when they hear/see shots being blasted, their reaction and what they should do as a group member is to "protect" their own.

I am confused. There were no communications from the officer (as you can try listen out in my clip) being at the Church. I am not sure how or why they would’ve been there anyway as there was roughly 35 seconds from police arriving at the Gallery, and when the whole scene was dragged to the Church. Even if he was there, it would’ve been for a complete different reason as to why we turned up to Han’s scene. They would not have been able to travel faster than my Interceptor, or even the two Apostles vehicles for that matter.

Furthermore, my clip shows that there were no audible shots before the Reaper engaged on police. I would like to see a POV of this supposed Firearms officer shooting your friends/members at the Church.

when that happened G6 Han Zimo rammed into every single one of our cars and started to impound them for no reason

To be quite honest, I cannot see a link from Hank’s actions to why Apostles shot police. Yes, police may have been at the scene of the first interaction with Han, but there must’ve been a significant time period between that and the clip above. Numerous police units were occupied with an incident at Mount Chilliad and from the time I logged on, ‘till the point where Han’s panic went off, there was no mention of anything to do with any Apostles vs Police interaction. 

We had minimal information to go off - we only had information that he was shot - but of course we expect guns. What we, or I, don’t expect is being shot for simply having 30 second ‘pursuit’ before being shot. A single person’s actions, especially being from two separate factions, do not mean that they are at all breaking an imaginary ‘initiation’ for people, like myself, in a situation like this.

You claim that we should’ve adapt[ed] to the situation, yet we had no way of adapting. We were simply shot for turning up at a panic alarm. Effectively no time from when the first bit of dialogue came from Han to being shot.

I will paste the rule, to serve as a reminder for all - “(G1.2) Random Death Match (RDM) - Attacking another player without engaging in any form of QUALITY roleplay is considered RDM. (eg. Giving enough time for them to comply with your order. “Put your hands up or I will shoot” and countdowns are not considered quality roleplay, please at least attempt to create an interesting roleplay story before considering violence.) - Mass RDM is a permanent ban.”

At no point was there roleplay, let alone quality roleplay, between Police and Apostles.
 

As for the last bit of your reply, to me, they are simply words. I did not/have not experienced that roleplay. I’m not saying that it didn’t happen, but I cannot prove or disprove that fact as I was physically not involved.

However what I did experience, as you mentioned in your reply, was gunplay. Therefore, that is the only thing I have to go off. It really does seem that any whitelisted faction is looking to shoot at every opportunity. In my opinion, this situation was no different. I was disheartened to play for the rest of the night and to be honest, that what’s been happening as of recent. Laugh about it, or don’t, but it is genuinely boring to be simply shot so frequently for pursuing a vehicle. Hence the reason Police refuse and avoid to even try to roleplay with whitelisted gangs. We are simply told “I suggest you leave”  or “Leave now”. In this situation, not even that was said. 

 

[Bobinz]

Absolutely. I had no interaction with yous. There was no form of communication, nor was there escalation from either side. It was just a straight shot which erupted into a whole gunfight. Simply because Han had been shot, doesn’t mean the whole of police responding to a panic alarm gets shot straight away. 

At the end of the day, you were kinda of aware why you were chasing that car. You chose not to relay the situation to other cops, you chose not to be aware and still to engage and chase dangerous cars with guns seen shooting. I am not sure, but from the car being an interceptor, I would assume you would be part of RPU, meaning you would be putting your life in the line even by doing what you did careless.

 

There was no clear reason as to why he was shot, who he was shot by (only when you turned up towards the Church did it become somewhat apparent), or if it was just him involved in that scenario or lots of other people. leave”  or “Leave now”. In this situation, not even that was said. 

The reason to why he was shot, it was unknown to you. This could have been accessed and you could have known this if you would ask Han Zimo, for me you didnt proper accessed the situation as it was and just rushed in.

Reports are dealt on a case by case basis and it is hard to set a hard line, but if you think about this, you involved yourself (you as police) on a situation an it was on the oposite side of us. As a police, you should and will always have to involve yourselves on situations, unfortunately this time was on the oposite side to us. That being said, you were part of "Han Zimos Team". Would you expect us, to have a chat with you, probably even read you a section of the bible before we shot you? Han Zimo had prior to this, pointed a gun at us, we retaliate with a chase, eventually catching up to him. You were not aware of this, but you involved yourself mid situation.

 

I partially agree. I did ideally  want it to go into a pursuit of some sort. This creates some fun snd tense moments for both sides. Apostles think they are going to get caught, and Police are worried they will get away. 

Personally, I dont enjoy chases, some people like the trhill of it, some enjoy more gunfights. Dont assume that everyone will enjoy a chase when it may not be the case.

 

I am confused. There were no communications from the officer (as you can try listen out in my clip) being at the Church. I am not sure how or why they would’ve been there anyway as there was roughly 35 seconds from police arriving at the Gallery, and when the whole scene was dragged to the Church. Even if he was there, it would’ve been for a complete different reason as to why we turned up to Han’s scene. They would not have been able to travel faster than my Interceptor, or even the two Apostles vehicles for that matter.

Diferent situation or not, for us the police act as one. You dont really expect us to be shot by a police officer on one front and have a normal chat with another officer on the other front. 

 

To be quite honest, I cannot see a link from Hank’s actions to why Apostles shot police. Yes, police may have been at the scene of the first interaction with Han, but there must’ve been a significant time period between that and the clip above. Numerous police units were occupied with an incident at Mount Chilliad and from the time I logged on, ‘till the point where Han’s panic went off, there was no mention of anything to do with any Apostles vs Police interaction. 

 

We had minimal information to go off - we only had information that he was shot - but of course we expect guns. What we, or I, don’t expect is being shot for simply having 30 second ‘pursuit’ before being shot. A single person’s actions, especially being from two separate factions, do not mean that they are at all breaking an imaginary ‘initiation’ for people, like myself, in a situation like this.

You claim that we should’ve adapt[ed] to the situation, yet we had no way of adapting. We were simply shot for turning up at a panic alarm. Effectively no time from when the first bit of dialogue came from Han to being shot.

Context matters, and it matters a lot. As I wrote, you were not aware of the full situation but you involved yourself in it. If I were to bet, from what it looked like from your perspective. The panic you responded to, was the second panic from Han Zimo, while I cannot be sure of this, it looked like it. It shouldnt be our fault that you are not aware of things and I hope you dont expect us to explain the whole situation every new police officer joins the situation. We didnt know what you know or not prior to this report, where we saw the video. From all we know, you were responding to Han Zimo panic, we were getting shot from the back from another police officer/car. So we did what we did to protect ourselves. We shot back.

 

At no point was there roleplay, let alone quality roleplay, between Police and Apostles.

Probably from your perspective, there was not roleplay at all between Police and the Apostles, but from our perspective you were helping the side with who we were having a situation, meaning from our perspective you involved yourself on this situation.


 

However what I did experience, as you mentioned in your reply, was gunplay. Therefore, that is the only thing I have to go off. It really does seem that any whitelisted faction is looking to shoot at every opportunity. In my opinion, this situation was no different. I was disheartened to play for the rest of the night and to be honest, that what’s been happening as of recent. Laugh about it, or don’t, but it is genuinely boring to be simply shot so frequently for pursuing a vehicle. Hence the reason Police refuse and avoid to even try to roleplay with whitelisted gangs. We are simply told “I suggest you leave”  or “Leave now”. In this situation, not even that was said. 

I am sorry, if this situation made you stop playing for the night and killed the joy you get out of the game. This shouldnt be like this.
On the other side tho, this could also be said for every backup the police gets during a gunfight. There was a situation going on, on which you involved yourself. You automatically picked a side when you joined and initiated that percuit. Probably not from your perspective, but there was a situation going on. We dont know what you know or not know, you chased us after we shot a G6 officer that had panicd.

You knew you were armed, you knew the risks. We knew the risks, if we went for a talk, what would have happend?
We would be surounded by firearms officers pointing guns at us telling us to put our hands up, put us in cuffs without even talking with us before. Just because to took initiative it doesnt mean we were wrong. 

That shooting was not random, not at all.
Even worst when you say MASS RDM.



I still think, it is a shame you didnt want to go to a discord chat. While not mandatory it really helps improving the server and even can prevent reports like this one. Taking part of a liason doesnt automatically prevents you from putting up a report, you can still do it if you are not happy with our perspective or you are not sure if a rule was break or not. This is an adult community and we should deal with things like adults. It took us around 50 mins to get out of this situation to be able to write in ooc and invite you to a chat. As you said, you logged of and that would mean you would not have seen the message from father, yet you still didnt call us to discord/ts. There was only the petty comment on OOC, which even goes against the porpuse of the chat.

Just want to add, the time between Han Zemo start impounding our cars and you got shot was roughly 12-13 minuts.

 

[Richard]

At the end of the day, you were kinda of aware why you were chasing that car. You chose not to relay the situation to other cops, you chose not to be aware and still to engage and chase dangerous cars with guns seen shooting. I am not sure, but from the car being an interceptor, I would assume you would be part of RPU, meaning you would be putting your life in the line even by doing what you did careless.

What? Are you trying to say that, because a shot has been reported, an FTO equipped police officer cannot attend?
I am 100% going to chase. I am driving the fastest car on the fleet, up against a powerful vehicle. That’s what we are trained in, pursuits. Because you lot broke a rule, doesn’t mean me starting a pursuit is “careless”. That’s on you.

You chose not to relay the situation to other cops, you chose not to be aware and still to engage

It is a public police/G6 frequency. Officers who attended the panic would have been on frequency and heard exactly what I said and what Han said. There was no ‘relaying’ of any information necessary. 

I didn’t “engage” anything. I simply turned on lights and sirens. “(G7.5) Police Sirens - When the Police put on their sirens lights to pull you over to attend a scene this does not mean RP has been initiated on their point, if you shoot without engaging in RP then this is classed as RDM.” This rule states that turning on my lights and sirens doesn’t constitute to you shooting me without engaging in roleplay.

Before you try and claim that this was no traffic stop or attempted traffic stop, it was. That’s how a failure to stop begins. A uniformed police officer indicates you to stop. That is what happened. I indicated you to stop and you failed to do so. 
 

The reason to why he was shot, it was unknown to you.

It was unknown but irrelevant as well. I had enough grounds for what may have been needed, which was search the Reaper for a firearm (if I needed to). I’m assuming you’ve dealt with the police before.

More often than not, we conduct the search then ask the reason for the firearm, why it was shot etc, to paint a bigger picture. A reason for this would be the fact that we would put ourselves in a possibly vulnerable position to ask all those questions beforehand as people could choose then to turn their anger or violence on us (but not shoot per-say). Moreover, we could be giving away information that is not relevant to the person as we could have identified the incorrect person. They could after feed on all relevant information to friends on frequency (all a hypothetical situation). 

Personally, I dont enjoy chases

Oh, so you don’t enjoy chases but that gives you the power to shoot police without roleplay? Simply because you don’t like chases and want a gunfight?

Diferent situation or not, for us the police act as one. You dont really expect us to be shot by a police officer on one front and have a normal chat with another officer on the other front.

You say this yet you have still failed to identify any officers which shot you in the back. I’m starting to think this might have happened on a completely different day and you’re getting yourself muddled up. I’m genuinely confused. 

If I were to bet, from what it looked like from your perspective. The panic you responded to, was the second panic from Han Zimo, while I cannot be sure of this, it looked like it.

Please, rewatch the video and tell me if you saw a separate panic from Han. That will make you sure  that it wasn’t a second panic.

we were getting shot from the back from another police officer/car. So we did what we did to protect ourselves. We shot back.

Again, you have failed to prove that this ‘officer’ shot you. No one from our side (officers responding to Han’s panic) had shot you, so it wasn’t as an act of ‘self-defence’.

you involved yourself on this situation.

But it is down to you to ensure that no rules have been/will be broken as and if you shoot. Apostles shot first so it is down to them.

This will now be left to staff, on my end, as and when they deal with this report.

 

[Rouble]

G6 Han Zimo rammed into every single one of our cars and started to impound them for no reason

Apologies for ramming, I braked but desync put me into some of your cars, so I decided to roleplay that the cars were prohibited-ly parked in the middle of the road so I started to impound them; and then that's what caused the shoot out in the end. I'll put my input here and I think the shoot out was not random at all. I said on radio the first time I was shot at by Apostle's and clearly said "Apostle's are shooting me" after I pressed my panic and police asked me what happened. After that situation everything calmed down and I went on my way, few minutes after 2 white cars started shooting me again, which of course I knew were Apostle's. So I panicked again in hopes to get help from police and I said on the radio that it was 2 white cars shooting me and one of them being a reaper; it doesn't take a genius to put two and two together and figure out that it was Apostle's that shot me again; the time between me getting shot the first and second time was under 2 minutes. 

 

[Hepps]

It was unknown but irrelevant as well. I had enough grounds for what may have been needed, which was search the Reaper for a firearm (if I needed to). I’m assuming you’ve dealt with the police before.

More often than not, we conduct the search then ask the reason for the firearm, why it was shot etc, to paint a bigger picture. A reason for this would be the fact that we would put ourselves in a possibly vulnerable position to ask all those questions beforehand as people could choose then to turn their anger or violence on us (but not shoot per-say). Moreover, we could be giving away information that is not relevant to the person as we could have identified the incorrect person. They could after feed on all relevant information to friends on frequency (all a hypothetical situation). 

I'm not sure someone who has just committed a firearms offence is likely to give themselves up to a stop and search mate.

(I was part of this scene)

I sense that you are still enraged - this is a community where it is ok to make mistakes and we engage about it in a mature manner.  Try not to get rialled up, it's a game which we all take serious but are here for a common purpose.

It didn't and doesn't need to done in this way; TS is a very handy tool to discuss things through and understand the reasons for one another's actions.  I've used it in both Cop and Civ to help mediate and save wasting people's time.

G7.5 or not, maybe you made some errors of judgement and are focussing on rule breaks - the question is, would it not have made more sense to glean intelligence then mount up and raid as a full team?

I was a Cop here for ages and have irl experience to call back on - not everthing can mirror realism due to game mechanics, so we do our best.  If I were you, I would've been thinking about like this; is it in the public's interest and/or am I safe in pursuing this vehicle in the only available high speed vehicle;

• my initial answer would've been the same as you, yes;
  
• I am armed with only a pistol, do I know how many armed suspects or number and calibre of weapons used? No, I will continue but I should expect to be on the losing side here if it comes to a fight;
  
• am I equipped to take this fight head on if it goes sour? Unsure - should I continue to proceed or should I wait for back up and go in as a team?  I would pursue but at a safe distance then plan ahead to mount up with ARU colleagues;
  
• am I working against Police policy (ARU takes primacy in high risk police chases for example) - policy may have changed; Yes I am in breach but it's more important I pursue, I will try to justify my actions and risk losing my position or specialism;
  
• they are heading towards their turf, am I pursuing alone?  Am I still safe to continue? Definitely not, the risk to my life is too great - wait for all my units to attend then go in together and try to interact.
  

I'm not suggesting you have broken a rule, but I believe its really bad decision-making in RP which has caused this situation.  You aren't a real cop, you aren't to know this, but it comes down to experience and learning from mistakes.  You can justify to not take the suspect down at that specific moment, but take the 'fight; another day; it's the repercussions which matter most (fun Police raids). 

Apologies for ramming, I braked but desync put me into some of your cars, so I decided to roleplay that the cars were prohibited-ly parked in the middle of the road so I started to impound them; and then that's what caused the shoot out in the end. I'll put my input here and I think the shoot out was not random at all. I said on radio the first time I was shot at by Apostle's and clearly said "Apostle's are shooting me" after I pressed my panic and police asked me what happened. After that situation everything calmed down and I went on my way, few minutes after 2 white cars started shooting me again, which of course I knew were Apostle's. So I panicked again in hopes to get help from police and I said on the radio that it was 2 white cars shooting me and one of them being a reaper; it doesn't take a genius to put two and two together and figure out that it was Apostle's that shot me again; the time between me getting shot the first and second time was under 2 minutes. 

Thats a fair judgement mate - you deserved to be shot and took the hit as I would.  Fair play mate!

 

[Lucyy]

Richard, while I can understand why you are frustrated, I would like to just remind you that context is everything when it comes to report's like these and I think when refusing to liaise with us this is when you missed that vital part of context. I do thank @Roublefor placing his input, as I'm sure you're aware he is the G6 officer that was shot causing the chase to begin.

To call this event random is silly, just because you had no context to what had happened prior. Yes, the first panic is not in your clip. But if earlier events had not been relayed to you from your colleagues then surely that is a failing (and in RP issue) on the LSPD's end not ours? Nonetheless, I will run you through the events and break them down for you from start to finish.

At roughly 8:30pm we set out from the chapel, all in Roosevelt's in order to go and offer holy water and "the body of Christ" to those we came across while also reading them prayers. We spent roughly an hour and a half doing this before we came across Han. We had stopped not far from The Gallery as Father had told us over radio that there was someone injured in the middle of the road and we wanted to help them. This is when Han came speeding down the road, and for all we knew had rammed into our vehicles, which yes, we could have parked better admittedly.

Han then starts to impound our vehicles while making comments that continue to frustrate our members, some of whom wanted to "deal" with him there and then. Unbeknown to us, one of our members then gets locked inside Hans car. When he pulls over very close to us on the side of the road and begins a conversation with "Gee", we take the opportunity to further some RP with Han and box him in with our Roosevelt's demanding our members to be let out of the vehicle. When Han had managed to outmanoeuvre us, shots were fired to take out his tires.

Han had gone towards Los Santos Customs and it is close to there (cannot remember the exact location) where he panicked the first time as we had rammed his car, possibly disabling it (unsure). He was pointing a gun at one of the Roosevelt's when other officers turned up in response to a panic and that is when I myself spoke to one officer and I believe Tommy (the member that was in Hans car and finally released) spoke to the other. Whilst Han was telling the officers that responded to his panic that he had been shot at, we assured the officers that we simply wanted our member back and be on our way. We even lied to the officers and told them no shots were fired and that Han was being dramatic. This is when the call was made to head back to the chapel, park the Roosevelt's and get weapons to go back to Han in hopes of removing any "evidence" he has on us.

It was not long before we were all in a car and ready to go and look for Han when we got a call over radio that some of our members had found him back near The Gallery and that he was "dead". I will not comment on what had happened as I was not there and want to stick to the facts, but we now know he wasn't in a downed state and this is when the second panic had happened. Whilst that call was made, it was swiftly followed with the call that there were officers attending to Han's panic. Our members were instructed not to engage with police outside The Gallery which is when the chase ensued.

Unfortunately, you were unaware of the prior situation and had no context to the situation at all which is why I can understand your surprise but this was not random at all. We would have been more than happy to explain the context of the situation with you through a liaison yet you ignored our messages in OOC asking if any officers from the sit wanted to liaise after seeing your frustrations in ooc chat. Can I ask why? Why did you not think liaising would be a good step before immediately putting up a report? Imo there is a slight pattern in your behaviour when a situation doesn't go in your favour or the way you wanted it to. Liaison is an incredible tool that allows for, in this case, context to be given before you make your claims. While it's not necessary, it could save everyones time.

 

[Bobinz]

What an evening it was. It was fun, untill it wasn't.

Every time I read a report and I see this:

This will now be left to staff, on my end, as and when they deal with this report.

 It tells me, people are here not to solve things but to get someone banned.
No one of this "discussion" was offensive, no one has "raised his voice", we are all just explaining our perspectives. You dont wanna talk about it, as you didnt want to go to discord/ts. 

Even further I would comment that I am really disliking your "ruleplay", as now it is no longer G1.2 but also G7.5.
Sadly I am failing to understand here something. No traffic stop was initiaated, you never asked us to stop, this was in no way shape or form a "failure to stop", as no one was asked to stoped, you can even see that on video. Even if you did, you were so out of range from that white car, people on that car would not have heared you.
I see your claim for G1.2 but please stop trying to "grasping at straws' and try to find another rule here that we may have broken on your perspective, because going down that route shows desesperation.

Thank you @Roublefor your input here, as it shows that even you as the G6 officer realised this shooting was justified.

 

Please, rewatch the video and tell me if you saw a separate panic from Han. That will make you sure  that it wasn’t a second panic.

After the comment from Rouble, this is now 0% valid. This along with:

It is a public police/G6 frequency. Officers who attended the panic would have been on frequency and heard exactly what I said and what Han said. There was no ‘relaying’ of any information necessary. 

Again, I want to steer the focus here to your lack of awareness. You were told on radio by who shot Han Zimo, he specifically told who had done it, it was his second panic.

In my honest opinion, missreading a situation in roleplay, is the reason for this report to happen. Missreading a roleplay situation caused you to be shot. Deal with it in roleplay.
Think about this situation for a second, you responded to an officer being shot by a gang member, you arrive on the scene and you are told by the hurt officer that exactly the car fleeing is the one who shot him. Would you chase him to the end of the earth, even to his own gang turf, without valuing your life at all? would you chase him no matter the costs?


Stil:
If you feel a player broke a rule - you should always report that player.


 

Please, rewatch the video and tell me if you saw a separate panic from Han. That will make you sure  that it wasn’t a second panic.

The video you provided is merely circunstancial, as you followed exactly what is written on the rules, "provide a 3-5 minutes video". This 3-5 minutes video is required to ensure that there is no ongoing situation. This does not limit the situation to have happen on the last 3-5 minutes. As I previously said, you involved yourself on an ongoing situation, and I honestly hope you dont expect us, non-police, to welcome every officer with a blessing and a prayer before we lay the old mighty smite on them.
Trying to destroy our credibility while providing your own evidence it sad to see. This is no movie nor a tv-show based on lawyers or court scenarios. We should all be adults here and not resort to cheeky tatics to "win a report".

 

Before you try and claim that this was no traffic stop or attempted traffic stop, it was. That’s how a failure to stop begins. A uniformed police officer indicates you to stop. That is what happened. I indicated you to stop and you failed to do so. 

On the provided video,  I fail to find where you asked us to stop. Please give me the time stamp where we were asked to stop, I may have missed it. Sirens are not initiation but a failure to stop is only if you are asked to stop and refuse to do so. The wording says it all. Failure to stop



Last but not least. 

Oh, so you don’t enjoy chases but that gives you the power to shoot police without roleplay? Simply because you don’t like chases and want a gunfight?

Here you are, assuming again. And again wrong. I've been in RPUK for more then 2 years, I never enjoyed shooting. I dont like chases and I dont like gunfight. I am never "casual caring" and I know that, if I have a weapon I will rely on it to get me out of situation, while not having it, forces me to be more creative. 



We are still open to go discord/TS and talk about it.
Is there any reason why you wouldn't wanna do this?

 

[Richard]

I would like to square some things away before staff has a look into this away. Some comments need to be addressed as they seem extremely far fetched. 
 

No one of this "discussion" was offensive, no one has "raised his voice", we are all just explaining our perspectives. You dont wanna talk about it, as you didnt want to go to discord/ts.

The same points were being repeated in different forms. I don’t look to go round in circles with multiple replies for the same questions, hence that comment.

Sadly I am failing to understand here something. No traffic stop was initiaated, you never asked us to stop, this was in no way shape or form a "failure to stop", as no one was asked to stoped, you can even see that on video. Even if you did, you were so out of range from that white car, people on that car would not have heared you.

By this reply, I can see you’re not very familiar with UK legislation. Blue lights and sirens are an indication to stop for police, if you choose not to stop for a uniformed police officer, you’re then committing an offence under the Road Traffic Act - S.163(3). Whilst yes a verbal indication to stop for police (and the driver chooses not to) would constitute to the offence S.163(3) RTA, it is not limited to such.

You are aware that you have police chasing you. I turn up on scene with lights and sirens activated. I drive directly towards the two vehicles on scene. I then follow the Reaper at a close distance (lights and sirens still activated) almost going side-to-side with it. Admittedly, I then crashed into a taxi that appeared out of the blue. Regardless, it is clear that an indication was made for, at least, the Reaper to pull over at this point.

Once again at 3:40 ish, I am next to you guys with lights and sirens activated. You then decide to turn and shoot - all from me activating my blue lights and chasing for several seconds.

Please, rewatch the video and tell me if you saw a separate panic from Han. That will make you sure  that it wasn’t a second panic.

After the comment from Rouble, this is now 0% valid. This along with:

It is a public police/G6 frequency. Officers who attended the panic would have been on frequency and heard exactly what I said and what Han said. There was no ‘relaying’ of any information necessary. 

Again, I want to steer the focus here to your lack of awareness. You were told on radio by who shot Han Zimo, he specifically told who had done it, it was his second panic.

As seen in my footage, I cannot see another panic. Upon turning up to said panic from Haan, there are no police present. As such, I can only assume that police have had no involvement. 

If it was, or it wasn’t, the second panic, there was no clear indication that there was police previously involved.

Would you chase him to the end of the earth, even to his own gang turf, without valuing your life at all?

At no point did I ‘not value my life’. I was at no obvious disadvantage. There are two cars in the pursuit, we have 3 units which responded to the initial panic (as seen in my video). You can also see that I didn’t even go into the Church car park. How was I supposed to predict they were going to drive straight back to turf and shoot as soon as they got there, anyway?

We are still open to go discord/TS and talk about it.
Is there any reason why you wouldn't wanna do this?

I am under no obligation. The fact that the vehicles were so quick to shoot, appears that there is a mentality of ‘shoot, roleplay later’. Honestly boring.

 

[Lucyy]

Hello Richard, thank you for your response.

I would like to add that you were not shot because of your lights and sirens. You were shot due to a situation that was still ongoing with Han (G6). 

As seen in my footage, I cannot see another panic. Upon turning up to said panic from Haan, there are no police present. As such, I can only assume that police have had no involvement. 

If it was, or it wasn’t, the second panic, there was no clear indication that there was police previously involved.

Whether you were aware of the previous situation or not, that is not on us. That is a failing of communication between yourself and your colleagues to communicate that information between eachother. Would you expect us to say lets give you a run down of the situation we are still in so you know? No, that isn't up to us. That is a police communication (and RP) issue.

I was at no obvious disadvantage.

Once you were following the vehicles you should have been aware of your surroundings and managed to understand you were heading to a turf. The same way you would be environmentally aware if you were following/chasing any respective gang to their turf.

I am under no obligation. The fact that the vehicles were so quick to shoot, appears that there is a mentality of ‘shoot, roleplay later’. Honestly boring.

Whilst it is true, you have no obligation to liaise, it would have been nice for you more than anything to be able to understand the context behind the reason(s) you were shot. Because you refused to liaise this is why you are/were missing valuable context. Just because you were shot that doesn't mean you can speak of the "mentality" of the people who shot you. Again, you got involved in a situation that was still ongoing with a G6 member which could have been explained to you in a liaison. The failures of communication within the LSPD are not our issue and we shouldn't have to be the ones to give you a run down of a situation that you joined in the middle of, that's the responsibility of your colleagues.

 

[Bobinz]

As seen in my footage, I cannot see another panic. Upon turning up to said panic from Haan, there are no police present. As such, I can only assume that police have had no involvement. 

I have seen your footage as have all the parties involved.

I think you have missed Roubles comment tho, where he specificly says he panic two times.

...
I said on radio the first time I was shot at by Apostle's and clearly said "Apostle's are shooting me" after I pressed my panic and police asked me what happened. After that situation everything calmed down and I went on my way, few minutes after 2 white cars started shooting me again, which of course I knew were Apostle's. So I panicked again in hopes to get help from police and I said on the radio that it was 2 white cars shooting me and one of them being a reaper
...

So you are saying that, based on the footage you provided you hold the right answers and everything you say on your footage is supose to be true and our words or versions, not even the perspective from Han Zimo matters. 


As I am tired of this back and forth, without the willing to even try to understand or even listen to the other party, I will leave here a video with the relevant part from that night, that lead to the shooting of Han Zimo. So there is more context to it. The video is from second before we met Han Zimo, to the moment he was shot. I was not at the spot, but you can hear on radio someting along the lines of "we got him boys, good job" reffering to Han Zimo.
 

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On the video you can clearly see the 2 panics moments. Han Zimo even admits to have pressed panic twice.
 

 

[Hepps]

I will re-emphasise that this falls down to poor situational awareness and being unable to effectively risk assess when you're putting yourself into immediate danger.  You may think you know UK legislation because you've played in FiveM, but it doesn't teach you when you should and shouldn't jump in with both feet - that comes down to experience.

Yes, you didn't go into the car park, but you were heading directly towards it and stopped right outside the entrance, like a road block with no cover.  Having a pistol doesn't turn you invisible against multiple armed suspects with automatic weapons - your character wouldn't know that, but your decisions should be based on risk - hence valuing life being questioned.

Your call of the rule break about the traffic stop is null and void because it wasn't a 'routine' traffic stop, the situation/initiation had already started, which you claim to not realise and still dived in head first.  Had you backed off to a safe distance, regrouped with ARU and not continued the pursuit which lead you to the church car park things would not have escalated; we did not take you or your colleagues head on, you involved yourself and came to us, we defended ourselves.   If you had acted like how you're expected to as an armed officer, this incident wouldn't have escalated and we wouldn't all be wasting our time with this report.

Mistakes happen (from all sides), we learn from them and move on.  I'm not quite understanding what RP you expected from this situation, which was directly spoiled for you (hence the report), hopefully staff can work that out.  It feels like its someone who lost an RP scene has submitted a report because the situation didn't go the way he wanted and your clutching at a rule break because you infiltrated/involved yourself in a high risk RP situation.  For us the initiation started when shooting the G6 guy, the follow on incidents from there were all from that situation.

 

[Liam]

Hello @Richard

Without reading every single reply, can I ask why you opted not to liaise with The Apostles? And are you willing to do so?

 

[Richard]

@LiamTo put it quite simply, in recent times I have experienced too much 'shoot now, roleplay later' type situations. These aren't small mistakes that can be talked over, in my opinion. This standard of roleplay is boring and every time a little thing starts with gangs it always ends up in some gunfight; this was no different.

 

[Hepps]

It was a shooting incident you were responding to mate, the roleplay doesn’t change just cos you fancied a chat or a different type of roleplay.  We tried roleplay over gun play but the G6 guy fucked us off until we needed to act.  It was a high risk, well organised situation for us, to expect us to do different is a little unfair.

We expected the Police to respond fast and hard, but organised.  The fast bit you did, the hard and organised bit was lacking which ended up in you’s on the losing side - I didn’t see any other Police (ARU in particular) who took a displeasure to what we done, no comments in this report nor a duplicate report.  I wonder why that you’re the only one who’s unhappy about the outcome.

The Apostles aren’t like other gangs who are at times a little immature; it’s rare we react like that and we shouldn’t be tarnished with the same brush in OOC terms.  This could’ve been discussed in OOC, we could’ve understood what you expected / experienced and you could’ve us, I’m disappointed we didn’t act like the mature community I know us to be.

 

[Liam]

Very well @Richard

As the Random Deathmatch rule states;

"Attacking another player without engaging in any form of quality roleplay is considered RDM"

There has to be some sort of roleplay before attacking the Police. Fair enough, you had attacked Gruppe6 prior but that is Gruppe6, not Police. This was not enjoyable for @Richardand or the other cops in the process.

I can see both sides of the coin, I see the crim side and I also see the Police side but the roleplay here is subpar at best. Not that of a Serious Roleplay Community.

Action: 7 Day Ban

CharID: 70359

Rule(s): G1.2

 

[Liam]

Thank you for doing your part in keeping the community clean.

Your report has been approved and action has been taken against the reported player.

If you are out of pocket due to this case please now open a compensation request here, Do make sure to mention this report.