Report a player - Alliance Member (Unknown ID) - GTA RP

[MrTurdTastic]

Server: GTA RP
Your Character Name: Robert Hutchinson
Reported Players: Alliance Member (Unknown ID)
Date: Mar 18, 2024
Time: 16:22
What best describes this incident: Poor RP/RDM
Please (in detail) describe the incident: Officers were chasing a Black Sultan due to poor driving standards (Excess Speed/Red ATS).

After a short pursuit, officers were drawn onto alliance turf and deployed a Taser to affect the arrest of the member.

Present at scene were two FTOC trained officers and two firearms officers. Immediately after cuffing the driver of the black sultan, one alliance member breaks off from his conversation with the Firearms officers and simply shouts "hands hands hands".

I understand that a second alliance member was behind the firearms officers and downed them too.

In my view this is just simple poor RP and from anecdotal evidence heard from others, is becoming all too common with this group. The excuse given was that "You can't come to our turf and do that" in summary; I disagree that pulling into your turf after a simple traffic matter is sufficient RP to then start opening up on officers with a hands.

Regretfully, I didn't take this to QE; I wasn't I feel, in the right headspace to have a progressive discussion surrounding the matter; nor did I think it would achieve anything given the reports I've heard from other players in the police.

I've always been an RP first cop and would've been perfectly happy to sit around and talk to everyone present; but was denied any further interaction due to the mentality displayed here in my view.
Link(s) To Any Evidence:

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[Yevz]

Hi this is myself in the clip, now I do feel as though we could have a chat in QE about this whole situation. But as of now I will just reply, now your first point is:

Present at scene were two FTOC trained officers and two firearms officers. Immediately after cuffing the driver of the black sultan, one alliance member breaks off from his conversation with the Firearms officers and simply shouts "hands hands hands".

I first try and de-escalate the situation by talking with firearms asking what has happened and trying to figure out how we could go about this however during this you proceeded to tase and put him in handcuffs and with my knowledge of the members around me and the advantage we had from being on our turf I made the decision to try and hands the officers which I believe is very reasonable as you are at my turf, he is in full colours and there are other Alliance members stood around.

you then say

In my view this is just simple poor RP and from anecdotal evidence heard from others, is becoming all too common with this group.

Good RP should be provided to both sides and I can promise you this, the incidents that have happened between the Alliance and police in the last week hasn't left anyone in a good mood, no one I have spoken to has enjoyed the RP and I find it unfair for one side (police) to be doing all the moaning. This report isn't about these past situations and I think it would be more suitable to discuss this over a private ticket with the suitable people, (I believe we are trying to get this going).

I've always been an RP first cop and would've been perfectly happy to sit around and talk to everyone present; but was denied any further interaction due to the mentality displayed here in my view.

Here you state that you would have happily sat and had a conversation with us but In my opinion you ended all avenues of roleplay when you ask him to step out of the car and within 1 second tase him, cuff him and then try and put him inside your vehicle as I stated above in the first paragraph. I also feel you ended the roleplay when I made the decision to hands you, you then make the decision to pull out your gun and aim at me, doing so forces me to shoot back to try and stop myself from being shot, had you not done this the RP could have gone many different ways but you doing that made the RP go that way.

Like I have stated I attempted to de-escalate the situation due to me and my members not wanting another shootout with police but like I said it was your actions that escalated it. I understand that these situations aren't the best RP hence why I tried to avoid it but due to the minimal time I had until you cuffed Jazz this wasn't possible. Knowing that these situations aren't the most enjoyable I did try my hardest afterwards to make it a little more fun for you by providing long medical RP which I hope you enjoyed.

 

[MrTurdTastic]

Like I have stated I attempted to de-escalate the situation due to me and my members not wanting another shootout with police but like I said it was your actions that escalated it. I understand that these situations aren't the best RP hence why I tried to avoid it but due to the minimal time I had until you cuffed Jazz this wasn't possible. Knowing that these situations aren't the most enjoyable I did try my hardest afterwards to make it a little more fun for you by providing long medical RP which I hope you enjenjoyed

I appreciate the time taken to reply mate.

Just with regards to this, the reason your friend was put into a police car was because it's the safest place to secure someone.

He was tased because he tried to flee again; after having just taken police on a chase.

I don't really see what other option we have than to try to detain him without a further risky chase taking place?

After your friend is arrested you have multiple options, such as talking to me, trying to break him out or even let him face the consequences of his own actions. By pulling a gun in front of 4 armed cops you leave us zero alternative for any other avenue than to return fire.

I understand why you did what you did. But I don't agree with it and think that the most meaningful way to progress it is to allow an unbiased party (staff) to arbitrate on the matter

Hope you have a pleasant evening.

 

[Yevz]

Thank you for your reply now,

Just with regards to this, the reason your friend was put into a police car was because it's the safest place to secure someone.

So to me this looks like you have identified that we are a threat and that you have admitted to attempting to ‘secure’ him away from us, would you not deem that as escalation from your part?

I don't really see what other option we have than to try to detain him without a further risky chase taking place?

So just like how you have given a suggestion on how the RP could’ve gone in your most recent reply I will also do that for you in this regard. Your character is aware of the threat alliance a-pose due to the shootings between police and alliance so in this situation you could’ve made a decision in terms of riskiness and weighed up the options to either arrest an alliance member in front of there members on there turf or let a single person go who was originally being stopped for going through a red light. I don’t disagree with the option you done but I’m just pointing out that the option you choose was an escalation to the situation rather than another option which would’ve stopped it escalating.

After your friend is arrested you have multiple options, such as talking to me, trying to break him out or even let him face the consequences of his own actions. By pulling a gun in front of 4 armed cops you leave us zero alternative for any other avenue than to return fire.

I appreciate your suggestions but like how you may view mine above I see some of these very unrealistic. “Such as talking to me”, I believe this avenue had already sailed away once you ‘arrested’ him. Doesn’t seem realistic for you to de-arrest someone after my character (who has no say) speaks to you. “Trying to break him out”, I believe this is what we done. “Even let him face the consequences of his own actions”, this doesn’t seem much of an ‘option’. Like I stated in my previous reply a gun was pulled in front of ‘4 armed cops’ due to your escalation of the situation. I had to make a rushed decision before you placed jazz in a ‘secure’ location and with my knowledge on the members I had around me and being on my turf it led me to think that attempting to hands you was a reasonable option. You claim there was zero alternatives other than to return fire but you could’ve simply put your hands up and gone along with the RP.

I understand why you did what you did. But I don't agree with it and think that the most meaningful way to progress it is to allow an unbiased party (staff) to arbitrate on the matter

Just because you don’t agree with what I did doesn’t mean it’s a rule break but I’m more than happy to let staff deal with this matter.

Hope you have a pleasant evening as well mate.

 

[Nikolaj Nielsen]

In my view this is just simple poor RP and from anecdotal evidence heard from others, is becoming all too common with this group.

Hello I was also there in this situation and just want to add to this comment on our RP.

Honestly we did our absolute best to perform far over average RP in the situation. Which I believe the other officers in the situation will also vouch for if we jump in a liason together. I even got a message in ooc chat saying thanks for a fun situation..

It's really a shame that people just goes to saying poor RP and doesn't have an open mind when they didn't "win" the situation. I really don't see the reason to try and soil our reputation even though we provide good RP.

That's all from me have a great day

 

[MrTurdTastic]

Hello I was also there in this situation and just want to add to this comment on our RP.

Honestly we did our absolute best to perform far over average RP in the situation. Which I believe the other officers in the situation will also vouch for if we jump in a liason together. I even got a message in ooc chat saying thanks for a fun situation..

It's really a shame that people just goes to saying poor RP and doesn't have an open mind when they didn't "win" the situation. I really don't see the reason to try and soil our reputation even though we provide good RP.

That's all from me have a great day

I think it's unfair of you to put words into my mouth by trying to say that the intention here is to soil your reputation. It's not my intention at all; I'd enjoy more RP interactions.

My issue at it's core here is that no quality RP was provided before we were mowed down for arresting your member for failing to stop and that I'd like an unbiased view from staff as to whether they consider the way this panned out acceptable.

 

[Yevz]

My issue at it's core here is that no quality RP was provided before we were mowed down for arresting your member for failing to stop and that I'd like an unbiased view from staff as to whether they consider the way this panned out acceptable.

So first off, I tried to get you to put your hands up and you decided to then pull out your gun and aim it at me, I don't really see how I ended the roleplay when instead of complying with my demands you decided to do what you did, do you not agree that had you put your hands up and complied that the RP will have gone a different way and not ended up in a shootout. If not then I would like you to answer this for me, what else would you have liked me to do in that situation. I tried to de escalate the situation, you then arrest him, I try to then hands you and you pull a gun out, tell me what more I could have done. When a gun is aimed at me, my life is threatened therefore I shot, however you did not have your gun out so you decided to make the situation go like that by raising your gun.

 

[MrTurdTastic]

So first off, I tried to get you to put your hands up and you decided to then pull out your gun and aim it at me, I don't really see how I ended the roleplay when instead of complying with my demands you decided to do what you did, do you not agree that had you put your hands up and complied that the RP will have gone a different way and not ended up in a shootout. If not then I would like you to answer this for me, what else would you have liked me to do in that situation. I tried to de escalate the situation, you then arrest him, I try to then hands you and you pull a gun out, tell me what more I could have done. When a gun is aimed at me, my life is threatened therefore I shot, however you did not have your gun out so you decided to make the situation go like that by raising your gun.

If you pull a gun on a cop with 3 colleagues, of course the officer's reaction is self defence?

You ended the roleplay by defaulting immediately to a lethal use of force scenario.

You could've continued speaking to the AFOs or even spoken to me? I appreciate in your view it looked as if we were just going to put your mate in the car and dip but that wasn't the intention. We put people in cars to prevent their escape whilst we conduct enquiries. Again, you could also just go "you know what, he's brought trouble and unwanted police attention to us, let's not escalate it".

I begrudge you stating that we caused the situation by drawing our weapons when the way you put it you would simply have us put our hands up and allow ourselves to be taken hostage?

If your natural reaction to seeing someone who is fleeing police get cuffed and put into a car is to then run around shouting "hands hands hands" then I really think that attitude isn't what the server is here for. People complain about police win mentality all of the time but this is a prime example of when things haven't gone your way immediately, the very first reaction is to just pull a gun and hands everyone in sight.

Not only do I think this is RDM but you doom your own group to an overactive response from the LSPS. Ultimately you stopped one member for at most getting a driving offence on PNC, but now put yourself in the spotlight for attempted murder of 4 cops? The RP rationale just isn't there for me nor do I think that the RP before handsing was sufficient.

I've got no hard feelings against yourself and Alliance as a whole and I hope you enjoyed Rob's rather gruesome death and I do appreciate the effort you guys out back into it afterwards; butI just want to see situations like this reduce. imo gunfights with police should be a last resort for big money makers/losses such as container raids/drug smuggling etc. Not for a simple red light and fail to stop ticket.

(Just as a side note for staff I do have a fuller video showing the required 3-5 minutes beforehand but I was having a discussion about police operations with another cop beforehand that I don't really want to be public knowledge, feel free to ask me to DM it)

 

[Yevz]

You ended the roleplay by defaulting immediately to a lethal use of force scenario.

As stated in my earlier reply it was you that started the lethal force, you tasered him out of the car and handcuffed him all within two seconds while I was trying to de-escalate the situation in hope of a non lethal scenario.

I begrudge you stating that we caused the situation by drawing our weapons when the way you put it you would simply have us put our hands up and allow ourselves to be taken hostage?

No mate, as just stated what caused the escalation was you using lethal force and then attempting to 'secure' our member away from us while I was trying to de-escalate it. If you had weighed up a risked based approach you would've realised the smarter thing to do was to possibly either have a chat with me or let the suspect go after all it was just driving through a red light. I don't have a problem with the decision you choose but I just have to point out it was your actions that led the RP down the path it went. I also never said we would've taken you hostage that's just another assumption you have made about the potential RP that could've taken place if you decided to RP this scenario in a different way.

If your natural reaction to seeing someone who is fleeing police get cuffed and put into a car is to then run around shouting "hands hands hands" then I really think that attitude isn't what the server is here for. People complain about police win mentality all of the time but this is a prime example of when things haven't gone your way immediately, the very first reaction is to just pull a gun and hands everyone in sight.

This whole paragraph is taken out of context, the first words out of my mouth was not "hands hands hands" I don't get why you are making it out like that. As I have stated and can be seen in your clip I attempted to de-escalate the situation by asking what has happened but due to your use of lethal force I had to make a brief decision on how to approach the scenario due to you attempting to 'secure' my member away from me.

Not only do I think this is RDM but you doom your own group to an overactive response from the LSPS. Ultimately you stopped one member for at most getting a driving offence on PNC, but now put yourself in the spotlight for attempted murder of 4 cops? The RP rationale just isn't there for me nor do I think that the RP before handsing was sufficient.

You have to take into account the history we have had with police in the last week and the fact is during this situation we are unaware of why Jazz is getting chased. If you had responded to me asking "what has happened" as seen in your clip rather than using lethal force then yes maybe this RP would've gone down a different route.

imo gunfights with police should be a last resort for big money makers/losses such as container raids/drug smuggling etc. Not for a simple red light and fail to stop ticket.

I completely agree which is why my first action was going over to you and asking what has happened, you choose not to reply so we was unsure of why this chase had started and instead used lethal force. To me this has already escalated to more than a "simple red light and fail to stop ticket" before we have gotten involved.

Anyway mate I believe I have explained my pov well enough and why this situation escalated the way it did. Unless you have something else to add I'm more than happy to let staff deal with his situation. Many thanks.

 

[Hank Summers]

Hello @MrTurdTastic and @2Tappy

Did we manage to get into a Liaison regarding this or am I to continue with the report as normal?

 

[Yevz]

I'm happy to go Liasion if the other party is as well

 

[Daanv]

So, I have taken the time to read through this report.

To make this easier, I have put a timeline below to get a better image of the situation.


The police is engaged in a pursuit which started because the person drove through a red light.

The suspect drives his vehicle onto the turf and comes to a stop after he is boxed in, and the police perform a high risk stop.

At this point, @2Tappy runs onto the scene and starts shouting "officer what's happening" over and over again.


this to me does not look like a way to deescalate a situation. Mind you people always run on to scenes and ask what's going on .

for as far as i can see no attempt was made to let the cops know that this person belonged to you as the suspect decided to ref his vehicle and try to get away again, causing him to get tased.

at what point i heard you asking what he had done, after what you combat rolled and started shooting.


Shouting the same sentence over and over again isnt seen as high quality roleplay.

and as such this situation will be seen as RDM.


When in doubt roleplay it out.


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