Remove the use of beanbag guns in gunfights.

[Dcay Kevin]

As the title says stop police and G6 from using beanbag guns in active shootouts. while I get they are powerful that is the issue. it's like a police revolver just you go twitching on the ground for 20 seconds by the time that is over you will be in cuffs. In my opinion it just denies any criminal a close quarters gunfight.

I have a video here from today and while I ended up shooting the cop that beanbagged me it completely denied me a propper shootout with officers and basically forced me to finesse the cuffs quicktime event 3 times to even get another kill.

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I think it makes no sense for an officer with a non lethal to lead in an ACTIVE gunfight. a situation with guns involved is fine but when the bullets are flying they have to go. No cop in their right mind would realistically choose a beanbag gun in that situation in addition to it just being way to powerful to be fun for a criminal.

This video is not a 1 time event, It happens all the time and it's just unfortunate. I don't care about the gun I care about not being given a fun fight. Just having a cop come up the stairs and practically 1 tap me taking me out of the fight using a tool that should not have been there in the first place feels like being cheated and them just using the "Meta" as I have seen a clear shift by Firearms officers to use the beanbag too.

I like the launcher itself and agree it serves a great purpose even in a situation leading up to a fight. But The way it is used here is just not right in my opinion.

 

[Nikolai]

I think it makes no sense for an officer with a non lethal to lead in an ACTIVE gunfight

it also makes no sense for a group of people to rush a PD, but here we are

-1, police are and should be more than allowed to use the available arsenal they have been given,

them just using the "Meta" as I have seen a clear shift by Firearms officers to use the beanbag too.

we're forced, by policy to have atleast 1 beanbag launcher per car, decided by people higher than us so we don't all carry rifles and have a more reasonable/balanced chance to fight non firearms related incidents without downing people
it has nothing to do with meta, it has something to do with not unlawfully shooting someone at every situation

But The way it is used here is just not right in my opinion.

why is it not right? is it because you got hit with it? from what i've read it looks more like you're annoyed that you couldn't shoot people, not that it was because of the beanbag launcher

 

[Samuel Shire]

I have a video here from today and while I ended up shooting the cop that beanbagged me it completely denied me a propper shootout with officers and basically forced me to finesse the cuffs quicktime event 3 times to even get another kill.

well i think this here might be your issue, you seem to be bothered that the officers deciding not to blow your brains across the walls and to use a non lethal alternative stopping you form getting more KILLS or FRAGS or whatever you want call them, id much rather get knocked out by the beanbag than get shot as if it was RP properly after getting shot your injury Rp should last days at a inconvenience to you

also if you attack a police station there's going to be probies with only the choice of non lethal

 

[SamDoodle]

-1

As a G6 member when we have the option in a situation to stop it with non lethal methods they are more than not the main step before we need to use lethal force. Yes a beanbag can be annoying to be shot by but would you rather be shot and stunned for a few seconds OR get immediately shot in the head. I see the beanbag as a better option as you still have the option to break out of a cuff, or even tank it and keep going. But getting shot down... well that's your spree over.

 

[Custard Cream / Jay Macs]

You charge a Police station, pretty fat disregard for common sense, U gun down the first CID officer with little time to give him to respond, U take 1 baton, 1 Taser and another beanbag round and ur still up shooting what do you honestly expect to happen my guy seems like a prettyunhappy case of "That situation didnt go the way I wanted cos of the tools the police had" so lets wack a suggestion up. All this did was expand the RP instead of you getting gunned down and then you /me *No Pulse Is dead*

 

[Dcay Kevin]

U gun down the first CID officer with little time to give him to respond

That "CID officer" was a probie we took hostage to throw a molie into MRPD. We told him to listen or he would be shot. he decided to make a run for it and got what he deserved.

it also makes no sense for a group of people to rush a PD, but here we are

Thats what we as a group do.

why is it not right? is it because you got hit with it? from what i've read it looks more like you're annoyed that you couldn't shoot people, not that it was because of the beanbag launcher

So people can't enjoy a good gunfight anymore?

we're forced, by policy to have atleast 1 beanbag launcher per car

would you given the irl situation use a non lethal weapon in a firefight though?

As a G6 member when we have the option in a situation to stop it with non lethal methods they are more than not the main step before we need to use lethal force. Yes a beanbag can be annoying to be shot by but would you rather be shot and stunned for a few seconds OR get immediately shot in the head.

But this is different. This is BEFORE a shootout which is perfectly reasonable. Beanbags are used irl in the capacity of disarming and neutralising people holding knives and guns at close range. But not while bullets are flying around their ears.

 

[Kate Anderson]

A mechanic denied you a proper shootout.

Right.

Read the title of our server and take a step back. Then reflect what you have written in this suggestion.

Edit: further more, your reason that you haven't been given a fun fight, let me enlighten you. In the past 3y I have been one tapped in the head for just being police and remotely close to some kind of shoot out more times than I can count. I received 0 roleplay I had 0 fun. Just tapped, dead. That's it. Do I put a suggestion up that there shouldn't be any more gunfights? No. Can I report them? No because unfortunately I have to expect to get shot when I'm police. Nevertheless, is it fun? Hell no. If you look for fun gunfights you should not look on RPUK. Thanks. Go play KOTH fiveM or something. Are gunfights part of RPUK yes, but they are a tool of roleplay and not the goal of it IMO. Should there be balancing, of course. But the reason should be reviewed more thoroughly than just "I was denied a gunfight" .

Cheers

 

[Atlas]

Ban the use of marksman’s during an active firefight please as it doesn’t allow me to frag more crims when I get 1 tapped from a 100 meters away. Thanks

Essentially what you are saying is you would rather have been shot and killed rather than police use a non-lethal option?

 

[Dcay Kevin]

A mechanic denied you a proper shootout.

Right.

Read the title of our server and take a step back. Then reflect what you have written in this suggestion.

Edit: further more, your reason that you haven't been given a fun fight, let me enlighten you. In the past 3y I have been one tapped in the head for just being police and remotely close to some kind of shoot out more times than I can count. I received 0 roleplay I had 0 fun. Just tapped, dead. That's it. Do I put a suggestion up that there shouldn't be any more gunfights? No. Can I report them? No because unfortunately I have to expect to get shot when I'm police. Nevertheless, is it fun? Hell no. If you look for fun gunfights you should not look on RPUK. Thanks. Go play KOTH fiveM or something. Are gunfights part of RPUK yes, but they are a tool of roleplay and not the goal of it IMO. Should there be balancing, of course. But the reason should be reviewed more thoroughly than just "I was denied a gunfight" .

Cheers

While i get what you mean, in the past 5 years i have been here shootouts and criminal RP have been core of RPUK be it Arma or FiveM.

It's shit that some people shoot you for the reason to shoot you. But our RP is to wage war on the Judiciary and our goal when we push PD is to cause as much chaos as possible, and take down as many officers as we can.

Shootouts happen between both fragging groups and RP groups.

I give all props to the officers involved and have no dislike or any negative thought for them using a tool in their arsenal.

But that tool is one that makes no sense for ROLEPLAY purposes to be used in a gunfight.
It's non lethal and unfortunately not 100% effective IRL that is why you hold lethal cover when using it.

My concern is that this weapon is used due to it being the "best" tool they have and not because it makes sense.

I like to roleplay always have but i also love having a shootout, i spend 2 hours making money for that gun to have a fun shootout with the cops. When pushing a PD Loss is guaranteed we all accept that but we at least would like to go out in a bang.

 

[Dcay Kevin]

A mechanic denied you a proper shootout.

Right.

Read the title of our server and take a step back. Then reflect what you have written in this suggestion.

Edit: further more, your reason that you haven't been given a fun fight, let me enlighten you. In the past 3y I have been one tapped in the head for just being police and remotely close to some kind of shoot out more times than I can count. I received 0 roleplay I had 0 fun. Just tapped, dead. That's it. Do I put a suggestion up that there shouldn't be any more gunfights? No. Can I report them? No because unfortunately I have to expect to get shot when I'm police. Nevertheless, is it fun? Hell no. If you look for fun gunfights you should not look on RPUK. Thanks. Go play KOTH fiveM or something. Are gunfights part of RPUK yes, but they are a tool of roleplay and not the goal of it IMO. Should there be balancing, of course. But the reason should be reviewed more thoroughly than just "I was denied a gunfight" .

Cheers

While i get what you mean, in the past 5 years i have been here shootouts and criminal RP have been core of RPUK be it Arma or FiveM.

It's shit that some people shoot you for the reason to shoot you but our RP is to wage war on the Judiciary and our goal when we push PD is to cause as much chaos as possible and take down as many officers as we can.

 

[MrTurdTastic]

"I think it makes no sense"

ARV's routinely deploy with a beanbag launcher. It's drawn at the start of every shift and have one per car. Clearly, it's an effective less lethal method for dealing with a lethal threat.}

Source - "ARV and CTSFO officers train in a number of tactics that will include a less-lethal option in way of a baton gun. Crews will draw a baton gun from the armoury each shift and these will be deployed when appropriate. Officers do not record each time they deploy with a baton gun as part of the tactic / incident"

I do agree it being a 6 round launcher isn't very true to life and could be more like an actual AEP where it's a single shot launcher. But to restrict it's deployment to non-firearms incidents has 0 grounding in reality.

 

[Nikolai]

So people can't enjoy a good gunfight anymore?

i never stated that, but i did state it looks like you're a bit annoyed for missing out on a fight

would you given the irl situation use a non lethal weapon in a firefight though?

i would use the weapon i had at hand, most likely, idk, i've never been in a firefight IRL, but using the first thing you can get your hands on sounds like a good plan, and that's what some of the cops did, pulled out the slinged weapon on their chest instead of fiddling with a holster

 

[Nepp]

As the title says stop police and G6 from using beanbag guns in active shootouts. while I get they are powerful that is the issue. it's like a police revolver just you go twitching on the ground for 20 seconds by the time that is over you will be in cuffs. In my opinion it just denies any criminal a close quarters gunfight.

I have a video here from today and while I ended up shooting the cop that beanbagged me it completely denied me a propper shootout with officers and basically forced me to finesse the cuffs quicktime event 3 times to even get another kill.

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I think it makes no sense for an officer with a non lethal to lead in an ACTIVE gunfight. a situation with guns involved is fine but when the bullets are flying they have to go. No cop in their right mind would realistically choose a beanbag gun in that situation in addition to it just being way to powerful to be fun for a criminal.

This video is not a 1 time event, It happens all the time and it's just unfortunate. I don't care about the gun I care about not being given a fun fight. Just having a cop come up the stairs and practically 1 tap me taking me out of the fight using a tool that should not have been there in the first place feels like being cheated and them just using the "Meta" as I have seen a clear shift by Firearms officers to use the beanbag too.

I like the launcher itself and agree it serves a great purpose even in a situation leading up to a fight. But The way it is used here is just not right in my opinion.

I feel like each situation would require more context as context is king, in some situations it may be unfair but this isn't one of those situations, in this specific situation you've stormed a heavily defended building in all honestly you've made a mistake the moment you decided to enter the building. It's a hub for the police, I wouldn't neccessarily storm the police station unless there is a clear plan. It's been done a few times from memory and when was the last time you heard it "working"? I've not heard it be successful, it's not impossible but there are rules in place to make it very unfair to being with.

The beanbag is a very powerful non-lethal tool, that is mainly restricted to G6 officers (not sure of who gets it), Level 1 PSU officers who are thoroughly trained, and AFO+ in firearms, I believe some trident officers have access as well. I've seen situations where beanbags are necessary and some in which they are not, but this is not the latter.

But lets flip this on it's head in an actual gunfight between groups (OCG mainly) speaking from experience police are there to be a deterrent to violence, if this happened in a housing area or a gang turf the context would be a little different, we rarely get involved, usually letting the groups duke it out and if it gets over the top we take measures to step in and start to get more aggressive usually due to multiple warnings being given. If you're specifically speaking about a Police V group scenario again not impossible to have an advantage, but come on, taking a fight at their headquarters is a joke.

I will say though your comments in the thread are alarming as it seems you want a gunfight more than RP. As others have said take a step back and think about this more. Police can and will use all equipment given to them in a life-threatening scenario. Just because you feel you have been cheated a gunfight, doesn't mean the officer in question has done anything wrong. In life-threatening situations a multitude of circumstances can affect anyone.

 

[JackJohnson]

-1 doesn’t really make sense tbh, if they don’t have beanbag launchers they’ll have assault rifles or pistols, same outcome. It was a chaotic attack by the looks of it, the Police just got the better of you, nothing more to it.

From a crim POV, it’s like saying ban Marksman pistols because they are so powerful. I absolutely hate them personally, but I wouldn’t expect someone to have one and not use it. If they have something reasonable that works, like beanbag launchers, why wouldn’t they use them, intention is to arrest you instead of killing you.

 

[Dcay Kevin]

I feel like each situation would require more context as context is king, in some situations it may be unfair but this isn't one of those situations, in this specific situation you've stormed a heavily defended building in all honestly you've made a mistake the moment you decided to enter the building. It's a hub for the police, I wouldn't neccessarily storm the police station unless there is a clear plan. It's been done a few times from memory and when was the last time you heard it "working"? I've not heard it be successful, it's not impossible but there are rules in place to make it very unfair to being with.

The beanbag is a very powerful non-lethal tool, that is mainly restricted to G6 officers (not sure of who gets it), Level 1 PSU officers who are thoroughly trained, and AFO+ in firearms, I believe some trident officers have access as well. I've seen situations where beanbags are necessary and some in which they are not, but this is not the latter.

But lets flip this on it's head in an actual gunfight between groups (OCG mainly) speaking from experience police are there to be a deterrent to violence, if this happened in a housing area or a gang turf the context would be a little different, we rarely get involved, usually letting the groups duke it out and if it gets over the top we take measures to step in and start to get more aggressive usually due to multiple warnings being given. If you're specifically speaking about a Police V group scenario again not impossible to have an advantage, but come on, taking a fight at their headquarters is a joke.

I will say though your comments in the thread are alarming as it seems you want a gunfight more than RP. As others have said take a step back and think about this more. Police can and will use all equipment given to them in a life-threatening scenario. Just because you feel you have been cheated a gunfight, doesn't mean the officer in question has done anything wrong. In life-threatening situations a multitude of circumstances can affect anyone.

Once again it's not about this situation specifically. Its mostly an example of just how annoying it can be to be fighting one moment and the other you are writhing on the ground for 20 seconds in the middle of a gunfight.

As for storming the PD, we have done it about 5-6 times so far and we made it out once. We went on the prowl last night knowing full well we were losing what we had on us.

And no the officer did not do anything wrong. If he did or if i was pissed this would have been in the "report a player" section. This is just me voicing my concerns that this weapon has too much potential to be abused. A man with helmet armor and an AR in full heavy combat gear can practically get 1 tapped by a beanbag at 40 meters. Just ruins balance.

"I think it makes no sense"

ARV's routinely deploy with a beanbag launcher. It's drawn at the start of every shift and have one per car. Clearly, it's an effective less lethal method for dealing with a lethal threat.}

Source - "ARV and CTSFO officers train in a number of tactics that will include a less-lethal option in way of a baton gun. Crews will draw a baton gun from the armoury each shift and these will be deployed when appropriate. Officers do not record each time they deploy with a baton gun as part of the tactic / incident"

I do agree it being a 6 round launcher isn't very true to life and could be more like an actual AEP where it's a single shot launcher. But to restrict it's deployment to non-firearms incidents has 0 grounding in reality.

I think having better non Lethal options are good and the weapon itself it fine. Police get many tools that if in the hands of civs without the rules and regulations are stupid powerful. And i dont't think it cant be involved in non firearms situations. But at the end its a Riot control weapon that is very good at arresting someone despite the state they are in. As said before a man could be running a 2 mil kit and be 1 tapped by a PSU officer.

My main concern is when the bullets are flying and the fight is on it's just too powerful to use. It ruins the balance that is already so fragile between police and criminal and will cause more annoyance.

I'm not bothered about this situation it's only a 1911 but if next time it happened to me to an actual full on kit. Yeah i would be pissed because that costs me hours upon hours of work just for it to get shut down.

 

[Dcay Kevin]

-1 doesn’t really make sense tbh, if they don’t have beanbag launchers they’ll have assault rifles or pistols, same outcome. It was a chaotic attack by the looks of it, the Police just got the better of you, nothing more to it.

From a crim POV, it’s like saying ban Marksman pistols because they are so powerful. I absolutely hate them personally, but I wouldn’t expect someone to have one and not use it. If they have something reasonable that works, like beanbag launchers, why wouldn’t they use them, intention is to arrest you instead of killing you.

Difference is one pays 800K to get it and the other group gets an infinite amount for free after a 1 hour training session.

 

[Vinny]

While i get what you mean, in the past 5 years i have been here shootouts and criminal RP have been core of RPUK be it Arma or FiveM.

It's shit that some people shoot you for the reason to shoot you but our RP is to wage war on the Judiciary and our goal when we push PD is to cause as much chaos as possible and take down as many officers as we can.

Kevin, this is definitely not our intentions when we raid a police station. Although I agree we aim to raise chaos, we don't aim to take down officers. The few times we've been in MRPD have all been for RP reasons and are typically hostage lead.

Last night was not meant to be a rush on PD. We were originally going around preaching our disastrous Tory manifesto when one of our folks started getting called Jimmy Savile by a probie and officer. We took them hostage, took them to the golf course and decided to get their opinions on our dreadful manifesto policies. It was a no harm, humorous RP session, which would have ended with everyone walking away. We decided to recruit the probie to throw a Molotov into MRPD lobby before we left him, however he instead ran through the doors, which is what caused the "rush" on MRPD.
The RP continued within the cells and right the way through to 1am this morning. I believe although very tired, everyone involved had a good time and laugh.

Anyway, back to the suggestion. Although I agree that compared to IRL, you 100% wouldn't see a beanbag launcher used in a live gunfight, within the city it makes sense for a few reasons. Firstly, a less lethal takedown is a better takedown. Secondly, not all officers are FTOC and therefore those with PSU training can still respond to chaotic events armed with a fairly useful tool.

Although gunfights can be fun, we're not here to frag. Let's make that clear.

-1

 

[JordanDMK]

-1
Now I disagree with the suggestion made.

The few comments I'd like to make clear this is NOT a suggestion made on behalf of the occult.
Secondly, when a suggestion is made about police equipment there is this weird trend of police defending it by using scenarios based around the user making the suggestion.
Its important when a suggestion is made to give a clear opinion with either statistics, fact or estimations. A suggestion shouldn't look like a "Report a player" forum.

 

[Pest]

-1
Without sounding like a cunt this is quite literally a skill issue.

 

[Atlas]

Once again it's not about this situation specifically. Its mostly an example of just how annoying it can be to be fighting one moment and the other you are writhing on the ground for 20 seconds in the middle of a gunfight.

I'm sorry, what? How is this worse in any way than being shot and incapacitated for the remainder of the fight? At least with a beanbag round there's potential to get back up again and continue.

Why is it these days it seems as though every time someone loses a situation its straight to the forums whether it be a 'ree police need nerfing' or a gang vs gang report war.