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Redzone VDM changes

alex11

alex11

Most AR reinvites
Location
Leicester
Allow vehicle to vehicle "ramming" in redzones. 

Current rule:

(1.1) Vehicle Deathmatch (also known as VDM) - Using any vehicle as a weapon (e.g running people over, causing explosions including while sling loading, ramming, etc), will result in you receiving a ban. Three vehicles are excluded from this, MRAPS (Ifrits, Hunters and Striders) can ram other MRAPS in order to disable them, yet not to kill the passengers. This is allowed as these vehicles are the only vehicles ingame that can withstand being rammed. Please note that you need to initiate roleplay before attempting to ram an MRAP. (Please note - MRAPS don't need to be initiated on in the redzone) This is to prevent random ramming on site. (Three minutes of chasing also constitutes initiation of MRAP and MRAP ramming).

Change:

Add an exemption where if both vehicles are inside a redzone ( Border wars / SAF included ) they don't need to be MRAPS to ram.

Why?

With the upping of the MRAP restrictions I think this rules would be beneficial. Factions have access to cheap ( free ) MRAPS compared to rebels where they are very expensive. Allowing vehicle to vehicle ramming promotes a very aggressive style of fights, slamming and decamping on others, which can be very fun. This also increases the risk of using MRAPS since you need to worry about getting rammed / flipped by a sporty. It's not OP either because you will most likely die if you ram a MRAP with a sporty at speed.

As long as the rule is very clear when and when you can't ram other vehicles I see no issues. Obviously helis cant be rammed.

If you disagree would be nice to comment why so there can be a discussion about it

 
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@Jesse OrionCare to comment why you don't agree? Would actually like to hear peoples opinion on this because I'm sure its quite controversial. Instead of just facepalming...

 
I really don't wanna see a hobo pull out a hatchback sporty and ram me to send me flying from OG to Sofia... No thanks 

 
Lord Steve said:
I really don't wanna see a hobo pull out a hatchback sporty and ram me to send me flying from OG to Sofia... No thanks 
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If you ram straight into an ifrit in a sporty the sporty driver will just die. Also I highly doubt a hobo would pull a sporty just to ram you ahha.

Not much point explaining why I think it would help the server etc. seems not to be a popular change

 
Being less strict on ramming any vehicles with no driver in within the redzones might be a good idea (just like caring less about maintaing roleplay inside the redzones) but letting people have a free for all with quilins and everything is a recipe for disaster

 
We don't worry about RP inside redzones but we do worry about the quality of fights in them. Non-MRAP vehicle ramming another non-MRAP vehicle would result in such frustration when it ends in both vehicles blowing up, which I'm sure would be a popular sight to see, thus I disagree. 

~ [KLR] Chubby

 
If I were to ram someone in redzones with a normal vehicle,they would explode because of my ping resulting in a shit fight/experience for the people who I rammed so -1 from me

 
As much as I'd love for the fights to be aggressive I can't +1 this because of the amount of desync on the server, there would be explosions left, right and centre if this rule was to be allowed which if anything would create even more lag within the zones. Isn't the lag the thing that most people are currently bothered by rather than the state of the VDM rule?

Also, rebels are brought into this as being disadvantaged in this sense but I haven't once heard a rebel complain about it, sounds like Police are just sick of having to use hunters and want to use prowlers to ram instead. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

P.S. I haven't -1'd as I'm curious as to what other people may think about this idea.

 
As much as I'd love for the fights to be aggressive I can't +1 this because of the amount of desync on the server, there would be explosions left, right and centre if this rule was to be allowed which if anything would create even more lag within the zones. Isn't the lag the thing that most people are currently bothered by rather than the state of the VDM rule?

Also, rebels are brought into this as being disadvantaged in this sense but I haven't once heard a rebel complain about it, sounds like Police are just sick of having to use hunters and want to use prowlers to ram instead. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

P.S. I haven't -1'd as I'm curious as to what other people may think about this idea.
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As much as I agree it would be a finer detail, but the lag would be unbearable, like @Kezmentioned.

 
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Kez said:
As much as I'd love for the fights to be aggressive I can't +1 this because of the amount of desync on the server, there would be explosions left, right and centre if this rule was to be allowed which if anything would create even more lag within the zones. Isn't the lag the thing that most people are currently bothered by rather than the state of the VDM rule?

Also, rebels are brought into this as being disadvantaged in this sense but I haven't once heard a rebel complain about it, sounds like Police are just sick of having to use hunters and want to use prowlers to ram instead. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

P.S. I haven't -1'd as I'm curious as to what other people may think about this idea.
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Yeh currently the desync is unbearable. So in it's current state this wouldn't be good. However if / when the desync gets fixed then I think they could be quite fun and make fights even more fast paced.

I'm suggested things that work elsewhere and I think could work here / would like to know peoples opinions on if they think it could work here.

Surprisingly this isn't a Police thing at all, obviously we would all love to use ifrits etc. I just thought it might be interesting to see how it changes the dynamic of fights. 

Anyway cheers for writing up your opinion, you raise a great point about desync so perhaps down the line it might be a better fit but not currently.

Simon Ross said:
Being less strict on ramming any vehicles with no driver in within the redzones might be a good idea (just like caring less about maintaing roleplay inside the redzones) but letting people have a free for all with quilins and everything is a recipe for disaster
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In terms of "roleplay" do you not think if you felt you could tip an ifrit over by ramming it in say a quilin you would? But that's not rly the point of this, to be in terms of RP.

What would you say is the limit of it being a disaster then? Just allowing people to ram stationary / empty cars? As opposed to anything ram anything?

jakap said:
ARMA... - YouTube
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During border wars when there was 130 people on the server and you couldn't see people decamp. I get your point but I don't think that should represent ramming as a whole, hopefully the desync improves.

Beelzebong said:
We don't worry about RP inside redzones but we do worry about the quality of fights in them. Non-MRAP vehicle ramming another non-MRAP vehicle would result in such frustration when it ends in both vehicles blowing up, which I'm sure would be a popular sight to see, thus I disagree. 

~ [KLR] Chubby
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So would you say currently the quality of fights are high in redzones? idk about you but I consider high quality fights to be slamming, fast paced fights as opposed to roaching / foot pushing. A non-mrap ramming a non-mrap would hardly ever happen. If you know this would most likely kill you, then its high risk high reward. I think it makes it more interesting. It was mainly for non-mrap to mrap since the reward of taking an MRAP out with just a sporty is very high but most of the time the sporty driver will die. Adds another level of complexity to gunfights. But I can see that's not shared by everyone else which is fair

 
AlexBear said:
Just allowing people to ram stationary / empty cars? As opposed to anything ram anything?
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yeh, I think this is the best inbetween, as it then allows people to actually push places like castle and the DMT at research without taking an age. 

 
Simon Ross said:
yeh, I think this is the best inbetween, as it then allows people to actually push places like castle and the DMT at research without taking an age. 
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tbh technically you aren't using your vehicle as a weapon since you aren't directly harming another player i see no reason why you can't push a vehicle that's say blocking stairs out the way

 
AlexBear said:
So would you say currently the quality of fights are high in redzones? idk about you but I consider high quality fights to be slamming, fast paced fights as opposed to roaching / foot pushing. A non-mrap ramming a non-mrap would hardly ever happen. If you know this would most likely kill you, then its high risk high reward. I think it makes it more interesting. It was mainly for non-mrap to mrap since the reward of taking an MRAP out with just a sporty is very high but most of the time the sporty driver will die. Adds another level of complexity to gunfights. But I can see that's not shared by everyone else which is fair
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What I mean is as a player I would want quality in the gunfights. I wouldn't say all fights in redzones are high quality tbf.

But I think main reason people disagree  comes down to desync. Maybe I should've been more clear and said I really see nothing wrong with what you suggest but I just don't see it possible in the current state of the server. 

Let's say under perfect conditions, ramming is allowed. Then there could be a power balance issue where new people who can't afford MRAPs are getting bullied in their soft vehicles but obviously this is later down the road and also can be countered by saying "then they should acknowledge the risks of being in weak cars against MRAPs."

Fair enough.

~ [KLR] Chubby

 
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Beelzebong said:
What I mean is as a player I would want quality in the gunfights. I wouldn't say all fights in redzones are high quality tbf.

But I think main reason people disagree  comes down to desync. Maybe I should've been more clear and said I really see nothing wrong with what you suggest but I just don't see it possible in the current state of the server. 

Let's say under perfect conditions, ramming is allowed. Then there could be a power balance issue where new people who can't afford MRAPs are getting bullied in their soft vehicles but obviously this is later down the road and also can be countered by saying "then they should acknowledge the risks of being in weak cars against MRAPs."

Fair enough.

~ [KLR] Chubby
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I 100% agree. Perhaps I should have stated that currently this isn't viable. Maybe down the line when the desync wont cause everything to blow up we can revisit it.

Also pretty sure most people are downvoting because inside the discord channel Poseidon members there was most likely posted this thread and "mass downvote this" underneath....

Cheers to those who actually gave their opinion / reason instead of facepalm and just downvoting.

 
AlexBear said:
@Jesse OrionCare to comment why you don't agree? Would actually like to hear peoples opinion on this because I'm sure its quite controversial. Instead of just facepalming...
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Oh wait I thought I was doing AR tactics...

But alas, this does not work because of desync as mentioned before.
Your intended change might be fun and games but in the end I don't want to get blown up by printscreening people and desyncing hatchback sporties.
Yes if arma had behaved in a normal way this wouldnt be a bad idea but we all have been playing this game for years and understand it simply isnt like that.
It's just not a bright rule change due to how Arma is known to handle it's physics.

AlexBear said:
Also pretty sure most people are downvoting because inside the discord channel Poseidon members there was most likely posted this thread and "mass downvote this" underneath....
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Yes this has been posted in poseidon discord, this does not mean that everyone agrees with that opinion.
A shame you really want to blame poseidon on something that I said as personal opinion.
This was never posted by anyone in a command or fence+ position so I am wondering why you even want to note here but that discussion can be held elsewhere.
 

 
Jesse Orion said:
Oh wait I thought I was doing AR tactics...

But alas, this does not work because of desync as mentioned before.
Your intended change might be fun and games but in the end I don't want to get blown up by printscreening people and desyncing hatchback sporties.
Yes if arma had behaved in a normal way this wouldnt be a bad idea but we all have been playing this game for years and understand it simply isnt like that.
It's just not a bright rule change due to how Arma is known to handle it's physics.

Yes this has been posted in poseidon discord, this does not mean that everyone agrees with that opinion.
A shame you really want to blame poseidon on something that I said as personal opinion.
This was never posted by anyone in a command or fence+ position so I am wondering why you even want to note here but that discussion can be held elsewhere.
 
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AR tactics? 

Print screening is exploiting btw if you didn't realise. Well perhaps be constructive instead of straight facepalm.... Without desync ramming is actually not bad, you can ram and not instantly blow up. The issues arise as you said with desync or with print screening. It just balances out things like border wars, where factions can have 5 mraps out for free or reduced price.

Never blamed Poseidon lol, I'm just saying that's clearly what happened. Doesn't matter if it was posted by command or fence+, if someone in a faction goes "mass downvote this" chances are people will. Also you're an enforcer of orion? Not like you're a random associate. I knew it was controversial and not everyone would agree but didn't expect faction members to be telling others to mass downvote it. Anyway might as well close this based off the response.

 
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