REBELS AIDING / HELPING THE POLICE

[FlawLess.UK]

So as the title clearly states, i have started this topic regarding civilians (rebels / gangs) helping the police.

I honestly think this matter needs to be addressed ASAP. It has happened to myself on more than one occasion and i suspect many others.

The fact that rebels can openly shoot, at considerable range too because they are then initiated in RP, other players while supposedly helping the police in situations / combat is in my opinion a joke and quite frankly unbalances the game play. It almost defeats / eliminates the object of RP before and during a gun fight.

Another strong point i would like to make is, HOW THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW WHO IS WHO WITHOUT TILDE. Police, Bounty Hunters & Medics are all recognizable by their clothing (Police even have invisible bags to clearly show the POLICE on the vest). If a rebel is helping the police and you are in a busy area, say Kavala, it is IMPOSSIBLE to know who is helping and who is not. And even with Tilde you still could not know for sure if they are with the police or not. So say you make the decision to shoot someone if you were in said situation, you could infact get yourself banned for RDM but you honestly thought they were part of the fight? I do not think that would stand for anything in the forum.

Also, this is supposed to be a very serious RP server. So if you choose to be a rebel and RP as a rebel, you should remain a rebel / civilian and i would class this as very BAD RP if you then turn around and start helping the police. You can not just decide for say 10 minutes that you are not going to be a rebel, especially if you are not a new life and say have a bounty. You could shoot aload of cops 10 minutes before deciding to help the police? And equally you could help the police and then 10 minutes later start doing drugs or killing people / cops again? That in my opinion is just rubbish, both in RP and from a ingame balance point of view.

Not to mention that these said rebels are infact helping the police with illegal rifles, so the police are happy for people to have illegal items on them when it suits them? That is hardly fair, considering that if you are arrested they remove yours but do nothing about theirs and they are free to go without any form of punishment regarding the illegal items they carry.

If you wish to help the police or play with the police, you should apply to be one.

You have chosen to play as a civilian / rebel and you should remain so.

I believe gangs are exploiting this scenario on many occasions, the simple fact is that they are turning what could be a fair, decent fight or even some potential fun RP into a near impossible situation where you just end up dead without standing a chance because you have been nailed by a 7.62, from across the other side of town where you can not even see them, as RP was initiated because they're "helping the cops".

Thanks,

FlawLess.

 

[James Dillinger]

To me, it looks like you are angry about getting killed.

Before you go about blaming people for exploiting, how about you join the police force and see what the police life is about. It is no fun running about with a 5.56s vs 7.62s, therefore some people jump in to help, depending on the situation. Personally, I would gladly help the police if they are trying to catch someone who broke server rules.

As for police "looking the other way" when it suits them - have you considered what would happened if they don't? The group of rebels that helped the police most likely outnumber and outgun the officers 3-1, so it would a be very silly idea to turn around and try to take them down. 

In conclusion, I suggest you try the police life, before lashing out on them.

 

[Smith]

A "PMC" license/faction would be pretty cool imo; a group that is neutral to both police and rebels, I think it could add alot to the game. That being said, as it currently stands, anyone in rebel gear, regardless of if they are RPing as a PMC or private security or w/e are still treated as rebels for a good reason; because the police have no way of knowing upon arriving at the scene who is friendly or not. You have to think about it from the police's perspective though, what they do is right, they treat everyone they know is in "rebel" clothing as a threat unless they know otherwise; it's called valuing the lives' of officers. This still doesn't stop you from RPing as someone who is trying to help the police. Some of the best RP can happen here, examples being people like G4S etc. Would be awesome if this could be addressed in the new framework, but still, it isn't poor RP to help the police.

 

[Dylan]

So as the title clearly states, i have started this topic regarding civilians (rebels / gangs) helping the police.

I honestly think this matter needs to be addressed ASAP. It has happened to myself on more than one occasion and i suspect many others.

The fact that rebels can openly shoot, at considerable range too because they are then initiated in RP, other players while supposedly helping the police in situations / combat is in my opinion a joke and quite frankly unbalances the game play. It almost defeats / eliminates the object of RP before and during a gun fight.

Another strong point i would like to make is, HOW THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW WHO IS WHO WITHOUT TILDE. Police, Bounty Hunters & Medics are all recognizable by their clothing (Police even have invisible bags to clearly show the POLICE on the vest). If a rebel is helping the police and you are in a busy area, say Kavala, it is IMPOSSIBLE to know who is helping and who is not. And even with Tilde you still could not know for sure if they are with the police or not. So say you make the decision to shoot someone if you were in said situation, you could infact get yourself banned for RDM but you honestly thought they were part of the fight? I do not think that would stand for anything in the forum.

Also, this is supposed to be a very serious RP server. So if you choose to be a rebel and RP as a rebel, you should remain a rebel / civilian and i would class this as very BAD RP if you then turn around and start helping the police. You can not just decide for say 10 minutes that you are not going to be a rebel, especially if you are not a new life and say have a bounty. You could shoot aload of cops 10 minutes before deciding to help the police? And equally you could help the police and then 10 minutes later start doing drugs or killing people / cops again? That in my opinion is just rubbish, both in RP and from a ingame balance point of view.

Not to mention that these said rebels are infact helping the police with illegal rifles, so the police are happy for people to have illegal items on them when it suits them? That is hardly fair, considering that if you are arrested they remove yours but do nothing about theirs and they are free to go without any form of punishment regarding the illegal items they carry.

If you wish to help the police or play with the police, you should apply to be one.

You have chosen to play as a civilian / rebel and you should remain so.

I believe gangs are exploiting this scenario on many occasions, the simple fact is that they are turning what could be a fair, decent fight or even some potential fun RP into a near impossible situation where you just end up dead without standing a chance because you have been nailed by a 7.62, from across the other side of town where you can not even see them, as RP was initiated because they're "helping the cops".

Thanks,

FlawLess.

As I stated ingame we had to do a separate initiation to the police which h wE did and then we were only allowed to help as it was AN high ranking officer 

 

[Samatlewis]

As stated above, police are NOT permitted to co-operate with ANY faction other than the NHS. The only time the police may co-operate with any said rebel gang is when it is authorised by an extremely high ranking officer and it is life/death to the extreme.

People cannot just say  the following scenario;

'officer can I help you fight those guys if shit goes bad' (assisting rebel)

'i you have an illegal gun in there, yes you can help' (officer) 

[police initiate roleplay, assisting rebel is with the police and the opposing gang have illegal rifles, police start taking fire] 

'sir if you do not put your hand on your head you will get rubber bulletted/tazed because you are a danger to myself and the population, you have 5 seconds'

[1 officer dies, gunfight happens between rebels and police]

pow pow pow

[assisting rebels Rekts every rebel with illegal gun] assisting rebel gets banned for RDM.

if a rebel chooses to help the police, they must initiate roleplay with everyone that the police do, issue their own compliance and make it known that they don't have access to rubbers. They should also make it known they aren't officially contracted and always initiate with quality roleplay.

As police, we struggle to identify separate gangs because no gang has an official uniform that is entirely recognisable (squad XML or the fact they have a big gun is the only way we can tell) so entering a firefight as a police officer, where it is obvious you are the only recognisable faction is bloody awful. 

Try our side, experience our struggles. Then I may allow you to moan about the police.

[sorry for the wall of text]

 

[Smith]

As stated above, police are NOT permitted to co-operate with ANY faction other than the NHS. The only time the police may co-operate with any said rebel gang is when it is authorised by an extremely high ranking officer and it is life/death to the extreme.

People cannot just say  the following scenario;

'officer can I help you fight those guys if shit goes bad' (assisting rebel)

'i you have an illegal gun in there, yes you can help' (officer) 

[police initiate roleplay, assisting rebel is with the police and the opposing gang have illegal rifles, police start taking fire] 

'sir if you do not put your hand on your head you will get rubber bulletted/tazed because you are a danger to myself and the population, you have 5 seconds'

[1 officer dies, gunfight happens between rebels and police]

pow pow pow

[assisting rebels Rekts every rebel with illegal gun] assisting rebel gets banned for RDM.

if a rebel chooses to help the police, they must initiate roleplay with everyone that the police do, issue their own compliance and make it known that they don't have access to rubbers. They should also make it known they aren't officially contracted and always initiate with quality roleplay.

As police, we struggle to identify separate gangs because no gang has an official uniform that is entirely recognisable (squad XML or the fact they have a big gun is the only way we can tell) so entering a firefight as a police officer, where it is obvious you are the only recognisable faction is bloody awful. 

Try our side, experience our struggles. Then I may allow you to moan about the police.

[sorry for the wall of text]

If a PMC license was implemented with a uniform and access to non-lethals not only would a whole expanse of RP opportunity open up but there would also be no confusion in situations like this. I think this is a must add with the new framework. I've seen it work, it really is a good addition to Altis Life. This way we can RP without getting the usual "you have an illegal firearm put your hands up" from the cops; which atm is perfectly justified but could oh so easily be made better with a proper PMC introduction.

Somehow I have the feeling the police wont like someone else on the island having large rifles and some small level of authority. God knows why.

 

[Thesoldier]

Vigilantism will never be tolerated, however if someone has to defend themselves so be it. I encourage people instead to help the police by calling 999 and reporting illegal activity.

 

[Dylan]

or in this case when it was a officer of a rank high enough to issue us to work with him.

All this officer asked was for the rebel to put his gun in his bag so that the children walking around kavala wouldn't be scared, but they wanted to cause ww3 both here and ingame

 

[Zeito]

If a PMC license was implemented with a uniform and access to non-lethals not only would a whole expanse of RP opportunity open up but there would also be no confusion in situations like this. I think this is a must add with the new framework. I've seen it work, it really is a good addition to Altis Life. This way we can RP without getting the usual "you have an illegal firearm put your hands up" from the cops; which atm is perfectly justified but could oh so easily be made better with a proper PMC introduction.

Somehow I have the feeling the police wont like someone else on the island having large rifles and some small level of authority. God knows why.

With the complaints that the BountyHunter system is a bit broken, why not replace Bounty Hunter with the PMC stuff? The basic skeleton is all there - a uniform, non-lethal ammo, a license.

Even then, if there's Police, PMC, and Rebels, the PMC must still comply with the police, should make themselves known and willingly lower weapons on police arrival or something. Possession of a rifle may be allowed by PMC license, but you must lower it until police can establish who you are, initially on sight by uniform and then a licence check or something?

 

[James Dillinger]

With the complaints that the BountyHunter system is a bit broken, why not replace Bounty Hunter with the PMC stuff? The basic skeleton is all there - a uniform, non-lethal ammo, a license.

Even then, if there's Police, PMC, and Rebels, the PMC must still comply with the police, should make themselves known and willingly lower weapons on police arrival or something. Possession of a rifle may be allowed by PMC license, but you must lower it until police can establish who you are, initially on sight by uniform and then a licence check or something?

I believe there are limitations with the current framework, since bounty hunters are listed as civs. This is also why they cannot get tasers.

We need to wait for the Ciaran to come out of his batcave with the new framework and only then we can see what can be implemented.

 

[FlawLess.UK]

I think some of you have got the wrong end of the stick.

I am not here moaning because i died. I honestly do not care.

I am not here to complain against the police. I know it is not easy to be one at the best of times.

I am here just simply stating my point of view and trying to address this situation that i feel is unfair / unbalanced and potentialy could get innocent people banned. I think i have made a valid point here and i know a few people who agree.

If you are here to make digs / insults then please stay off the topic, i have made it to DISCUSS this scenario to see what other people think and what ideas they have to work around it or better yet, introduce something new to the mod.

Please just read what i have written, try and understand it from my point of view. I think the fact that we can not even distinguish who is who in that scenario is more than enough to get something changed about this, like i said before, hence why we have uniforms / clothing.

I think it is also slightly sad that i can not even start a discussion without people swinging their weight around in it, i have not mentioned anyone in particular and i have not insulted or complained about anyone / gang / police. If i wanted to play as police, i would apply but i do not wish to.

Please stay on topic, thanks to those who have and already contributed their thoughts on this matter.

 

[Fuel]

So as the title clearly states, i have started this topic regarding civilians (rebels / gangs) helping the police.

I honestly think this matter needs to be addressed ASAP. It has happened to myself on more than one occasion and i suspect many others.

The fact that rebels can openly shoot, at considerable range too because they are then initiated in RP, other players while supposedly helping the police in situations / combat is in my opinion a joke and quite frankly unbalances the game play. It almost defeats / eliminates the object of RP before and during a gun fight.

Another strong point i would like to make is, HOW THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW WHO IS WHO WITHOUT TILDE. Police, Bounty Hunters & Medics are all recognizable by their clothing (Police even have invisible bags to clearly show the POLICE on the vest). If a rebel is helping the police and you are in a busy area, say Kavala, it is IMPOSSIBLE to know who is helping and who is not. And even with Tilde you still could not know for sure if they are with the police or not. So say you make the decision to shoot someone if you were in said situation, you could infact get yourself banned for RDM but you honestly thought they were part of the fight? I do not think that would stand for anything in the forum.

Also, this is supposed to be a very serious RP server. So if you choose to be a rebel and RP as a rebel, you should remain a rebel / civilian and i would class this as very BAD RP if you then turn around and start helping the police. You can not just decide for say 10 minutes that you are not going to be a rebel, especially if you are not a new life and say have a bounty. You could shoot aload of cops 10 minutes before deciding to help the police? And equally you could help the police and then 10 minutes later start doing drugs or killing people / cops again? That in my opinion is just rubbish, both in RP and from a ingame balance point of view.

Not to mention that these said rebels are infact helping the police with illegal rifles, so the police are happy for people to have illegal items on them when it suits them? That is hardly fair, considering that if you are arrested they remove yours but do nothing about theirs and they are free to go without any form of punishment regarding the illegal items they carry.

If you wish to help the police or play with the police, you should apply to be one.

You have chosen to play as a civilian / rebel and you should remain so.

I believe gangs are exploiting this scenario on many occasions, the simple fact is that they are turning what could be a fair, decent fight or even some potential fun RP into a near impossible situation where you just end up dead without standing a chance because you have been nailed by a 7.62, from across the other side of town where you can not even see them, as RP was initiated because they're "helping the cops".

Thanks,

FlawLess.

Well TLDR

but from the first few lines I see you upset with police working with rebels, I would like to inform you that no officer is allowed to work with rebels unless given authorisation by a CSI, and we do not Authorise it, so any names of any officers hopefully with a video pass it to myself and I can deal with it.

Regards

CSI Fuel

 

[Dylan]

Well TLDR

but from the first few lines I see you upset with police working with rebels, I would like to inform you that no officer is allowed to work with rebels unless given authorisation by a CSI, and we do not Authorise it, so any names of any officers hopefully with a video pass it to myself and I can deal with it.

Regards

CSI Fuel

llike don get me wrowrong I get why not but have you tried to play cop after 3 am on a weekday??? As in this situation tgis  cop couldn't do anything as hr was outnumbered 

All he asked tem to do was put their wea pons away in kavala ti stop scaring the kids... that's it.. and he couldn't stop them without someone helping.......

Soz about spelling on phone and have fat fingers

 

[FlawLess.UK]

If you can not be bothered to read the original post all the way through, as well as other posts, then please do not comment.

I have made the effort to address this situation and if you are going to reply with..

"Well TLDR.  But from the first few lines i can see you upset with the police" is not helpful and is useless to this discussion.

As i have clearly stated, i am not upset what so ever, with anyone or any gang / police and i am not trying to get anyone banned or told off so to speak.

I can understand why police, at times, may need help but that should not fall down to rebels in rebel clothing with rebel weapons. It completely unbalances the situation and like i have pointed out, could result in innocent players like myself getting banned for RDM because we have shot some rebel for being in the area. Also, it puts those involved at a serious and near impossible situation, getting shot 100's of meters away because these people are in RP from "helping the cops".

 

[Fuel]

If you can not be bothered to read the original post all the way through, as well as other posts, then please do not comment.

I have made the effort to address this situation and if you are going to reply with..

"Well TLDR.  But from the first few lines i can see you upset with the police" is not helpful and is useless to this discussion.

As i have clearly stated, i am not upset what so ever, with anyone or any gang / police and i am not trying to get anyone banned or told off so to speak.

I can understand why police, at times, may need help but that should not fall down to rebels in rebel clothing with rebel weapons. It completely unbalances the situation and like i have pointed out, could result in innocent players like myself getting banned for RDM because we have shot some rebel for being in the area. Also, it puts those involved at a serious and near impossible situation, getting shot 100's of meters away because these people are in RP from "helping the cops".

That is what I am getting at mr Flawless, police do not work with rebels, and those that do are breaking police rules.

 

[FlawLess.UK]

If this rule exists, then both rebel and police should be punished in the future (i am not here to get anyone banned or punished as i have said, just wanted it clarified).

Also, there should be no exceptions to this rule. I can understand their point of view with the police being out numbered, but that is down to them if they wish to join and play as a cop be it solo or just a few of them.

If you were playing when there was 20 cops online, you come across 1 on his own involved in RP / gun fight, you would not then decide to stop and try help him so why should this be allowed when there is only 1 or a few online.

As i have clearly stated, not only does it ruin the mod from a RP point of view but it unbalances the game play.

But i did not make this thread to simply complain or moan. People have mentioned about adding in a new faction so to speak which could be an idea for the admins if they so wish, that was the aim, not only to address this matter but bring ideas or solution to the table.

So please read through this thread properly and you may find yourself with an idea or solution that could help.

But thanks for clearing this up from a legit point of view, i was unaware it was against the rules to assist the police regardless of the situation they are in (which makes complete sense in my eyes).

 

[BratJaggesVlnd]

If this rule exists, then both rebel and police should be punished in the future (i am not here to get anyone banned or punished as i have said, just wanted it clarified).

Also, there should be no exceptions to this rule. I can understand their point of view with the police being out numbered, but that is down to them if they wish to join and play as a cop be it solo or just a few of them.

If you were playing when there was 20 cops online, you come across 1 on his own involved in RP / gun fight, you would not then decide to stop and try help him so why should this be allowed when there is only 1 or a few online.

As i have clearly stated, not only does it ruin the mod from a RP point of view but it unbalances the game play.

But i did not make this thread to simply complain or moan. People have mentioned about adding in a new faction so to speak which could be an idea for the admins if they so wish, that was the aim, not only to address this matter but bring ideas or solution to the table.

So please read through this thread properly and you may find yourself with an idea or solution that could help.

But thanks for clearing this up from a legit point of view, i was unaware it was against the rules to assist the police regardless of the situation they are in (which makes complete sense in my eyes).

It is against police rules, not server rules. No cops or rebels will be banned for helping eachother out, it may however lead to disciplinary actions for the police officers.

 

[PeachMaster]

What people tend to forget,

Corrupted police is an act of Role play, it's a POLICE RULE, not a server rule. (Shh, we have all done it ) 

You wont get banned for it, either disciplinary actions or kick. 

 

[FlawLess.UK]

It is against police rules, not server rules. No cops or rebels will be banned for helping eachother out, it may however lead to disciplinary actions for the police officers.

Thanks, that clears it up a bit.

But can you not understand my point of view, even from the fact that how are we supposed to know who is helping and who is not?

What happens if we RDM someone that is not involved with said gang / people that are helping the police?

How do you stop someone shooting you from miles away, where you can not even see them or even know they are there, because they are helping the police?

It just does not make sense in my eyes how a rebel, fully kitted, can just turn around and decide he is going to help the police all of a sudden.

That is what I am getting at mr Flawless, police do not work with rebels, and those that do are breaking police rules.

Apologies i misread the POLICE rules.

But this does not answer or solve the main issue of the scenario.

I strongly believe this should be a SERVER rule not a police rule.