RDM - Mr.Chee

[CookieKing]

Name of the person you are reporting (in-game name):
 
Mr.Chee
 
Time & Date this happened:
 
22:15pm (Estimate) Unsure of the time due to trying to discuss this with them after
 
Which Server did this happen on:
 
Server 2
 
Description of what happened:
 
We approached the Oil trader with our car, we heard someone speaking, unsure of his voice at the time, once we approached the scene we was fired apon instantly without direct communication towards us.
 
What Rule Was Broken ?: [SIZE=medium]3B) RDM - Random Death Match Definition:[/SIZE]

 [SIZE=medium]Shooting at someone without engaging in any form of quality role play (eg. Giving enough time for them to comply with your order) is considered RDM. (Punishment is a ban)[/SIZE]
 
Have you tried to resolve with the player before posting?:
 
Yes we tried to discuss this through Mobile texting in-game in which they invited us to a separate Teamspeak, not the official AltisLife.co.uk one so we refused stating they will have to join the official one, this later was responded with argumentative texts stating they would not join this and accusing us of not trying to resolve the situation stating its against the rules to threaten with a report, under the rule 3E this is allowed as an exceptions since they would not join the official server.
  
[SIZE=medium]3E) Threats to report / disputes / Breaking RP in Voice[/SIZE]

  [SIZE=medium]Exception: You may contact someone using the text system if they are not on teamspeak or on the forums. Please only attempt to make this contact in effort to resolve the issue, not to antagonise the other player/users/members.[/SIZE]
Please post video evidence/screenshots here
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCoJRr3MQLc&feature=youtu.be
 
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=489366010   -   This screenshot shows him typing how we fired first but we never fired a bullet until - Dakier was injured in the leg.
 
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=489366079
 
(This is almost a must! without this you have no solid evidence, If your report is about RDM then it must be a video leading upto the RDM and after)

 

[MrChee]

Okay, we will start from the beginning. in your video you clear as day hear us give two sets of compliance. 'Stay away, stay away please, this is sirry for you.' 

You turn up to oil trader in a sports hatchback - doesn't give us the impression you are here to sell oil at all!

If that was me i would have left the area and come back later to sell anything i had, obviously it is a hostile situation. You decide to stop and get out regardless of hearing please leave and seeing guns. 

Note, we are flustered at this point because i accidentally knocked out Mr Wong and we were getting back together as you arrived. 

You've now entered an obviously hostile situation; at least put your gun away and make contact with us as opposed to trying to sneak up to us which is evident from your video. 

Luckily for me i went to see where you went because we heard your car lock, then i see you running directly to our situation with a pistol drawn and up. Mr Wong is still engaged and flustered with the robbery so i need to slow you down. This corroborates with your video. I fired 3 warning shots at you and intentionally pulled them. I then reissue more compliance and in my video tell Mr Wong to retreat after we notice you have an MX(series) already lined up on us. 

Mr Wong retreats and gets shot at by the operator of the MX, i now have no viable exit. We decide to shoot it out as it is now an active firefight with you advancing on us. For the readers, both of the [KING] were killed. 
----
We then got messaged over chat so we respond. I am on a university VPN which has intermittent issues with various IP's, a recurrent issue is the breaking point web servers. This is why we respond with another TS for them to access to discuss what the problem was. We were genuinely shocked with getting called out for RDM as we always give good compliance and have been killed for a lot less than that, we did want to find out why they were so angry as we had had an amazing night of RP before this. 

When we mentioned the genuine reason for not being able to access the TS they stated ; ' 1 million compensation or it is a report'. After a few messages, bearing in mind we had to be quick because we both have work, Dakler Vasser (?) comes onto the ts and we chat but don't come to a resolution. I couldn't get a clear answer as to why they wanted a £1mil compensation for loosing no more than £500k of gear. (Don't take the piss and try to exploit us please).

You say we sent argumentative texts, but if you are really that upset, and want to try to claim so much compensation, don't you think it is adult to try to accommodate the fact we cant come onto a specific TS at that time... we sent appropriate alternative methods to talk and were against the clock. I felt that in fact you were the ones being short with us via texts.

In conclusion, we have been shot for less, even today. We always give good compliance and that often results in us being at a disadvantage, i have many recordings to back that up. The only thing i feel that could have been a bit better on our side was that i maybe shouldn't have fired the warning shots that hit you and tried to issue more (unnecessary) compliance. In the heat of the moment i made a judgement call and decided that by trying to talk more we would have been placed in a crap position and likely be the dead ones as has happened many times before. You may have been confused with the compliance but you did not make contact to confirm intention, you were evidently ready for an engagement and by some cloverleaf luck we came out on top with two pistols.

Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV5LbaIx3cg&feature=youtu.be

 

[CookieKing]

Firstly your warning shots were not warning shots as they hit our team member, so clearly you have not watched the recording provided by us, so you immediately initiated the fight under RDM, secondly how do we know you are talking to us, you shot at my teammate after saying "their is a man with a gun coming" yet you didn't initiate RP with him you just shot thinking he was completely clear on the situation and direction of you threat to stay away.

you are robbing someone at oil trader as we turn up and you say "stay away" but how do we know this is aimed as us? you could have been talking to the victims being robbed, you should specify next time.

We didn't say "1 mill comp or we report it" 

I simply wrote along the lines of "We want 1 million compensation, otherwise this will have to be put on the forums as its RDM", there is nothing wrong with this text as the rules clearly state if you cannot discuss this on the TS its allowed throughout mobile.

also you cut your recording which is a massive point against the rules, a recording must not be tampered with and must show the upcoming events and after the situation.

Lastly yes your texts were augmentative, i wish i had screenshot them all, you was defiant to join the teamspeak or at least one of your members could have come to speak for you, we had one of our members speak to a mentor to discuss the situation and he said that you clearly initiated RDM and that you would likely be at fault, at this time the team member didn't provide the mentors name due to leaving for bed, this name will be provided.

Also another thing to mention in this quick edit is that you also lied in the texts, you stated that we fired, yet you was the only one to fire in that whole firefight apart from my 3 shots after you initiated. 

Could an admin please lock this thread once reviewed and come to a conclusion

 

[MrChee]

Firstly your warning shots were not warning shots as they hit our team member, so clearly you have not watched the recording provided by us, so you immediately initiated the fight under RDM, secondly how do we know you are talking to us, you shot at my teammate after saying "their is a man with a gun coming" yet you didn't initiate RP with him you just shot thinking he was completely clear on the situation and direction of you threat to stay away.

Please don't be disrespectful, of course I watched the video. Many times. I addressed this already and we believe the compliance we gave was appropriate due to the situation we were in. We had told you to stay away and then you run towards us with pistol drawn. 

you are robbing someone at oil trader as we turn up and you say "stay away" but how do we know this is aimed as us? you could have been talking to the victims being robbed, you should specify next time.

A reasonable person, especially knowing the way robberies work on the server, and after seeing the gun and knowing it is a fragile area (lots of cash involved at a trader), would presume and act accordingly that it was directed to anyone new turning up. 

We didn't say "1 mill comp or we report it" 

I simply wrote along the lines of "We want 1 million compensation, otherwise this will have to be put on the forums as its RDM", there is nothing wrong with this text as the rules clearly state if you cannot discuss this on the TS its allowed throughout mobile.

I cant check the texts now but I do have all of the ones that you sent us archived at home. Will add later. 

also you cut your recording which is a massive point against the rules, a recording must not be tampered with and must show the upcoming events and after the situation.

I cant find this guidance (not saying it isn't right but I cant find it, send please?)  I cut off the beginning where you hadn't turned up and I removed the end which was the rest of the fire fight after you died. This was so that it could be a direct comparison with your video, and so that I didn't need to wait 40 minutes for it to render (yay for having an old i5). The bit that I did upload was completely unadulterated and the rest can be seen if you want but it isn't strictly probative to the matter in case. 

Lastly yes your texts were augmentative, i wish i had screenshot them all, you was defiant to join the teamspeak or at least one of your members could have come to speak for you, we had one of our members speak to a mentor to discuss the situation and he said that you clearly initiated RDM and that you would likely be at fault, at this time the team member didn't provide the mentors name due to leaving for bed, this name will be provided.

That is fine, I have the replies and some of ours which I will post (hopefully). If a mentor would like to come and give an opinion now that he has an open forum and evidence from both sides that would be appreciated. 

Also another thing to mention in this quick edit is that you also lied in the texts, you stated that we fired, yet you was the only one to fire in that whole firefight apart from my 3 shots after you initiated.

So you did fire then, You fired three shots. I will put the rest of the fire fight up later to clear it up. And will give time for Mr Wong and Daklar(?), who is the party who was actually shot at, to comment.

In the meantime, please do not lock the thread, it has only been 18 hours and we have not all had time to comment equally. If you would like to give us a run-down of what you lost then we can discuss fair compensation. Not because we are accepting liability, but because the stress is impeding on mine and Mr Wongs work and at the end of a day a game should not do that. Also because we would rather just get on with having fun on altislife and make the money back with oil than spend the time on the forums. 

 

[CookieKing]

Firstly his pistol was drawn yes but not actively pointed towards you.

Secondly you say how we should know how the situation is being directed as you are robbing them but how are we supposed to know this? we see 2 knocked out players thinking that someone needs help, we had no intent at the time to turn up guns blazing so to speak.

Again the recording has to show before and after, i'm not particularly bothered, i was just letting you know as its one of the worst rules not to follow i've seen people get banned for it and i simply didn't want you to for it

The mentors name was "imstyle"

Yes i fired 3 shots, i don't deny this but my whole point was in the text you sent it suggests we fired first to initiate the firefight but this is not true due to you firing at Dakier and hitting in the leg.

We have recently realized the that compensation we requested was very obscured since we was flustered at the situation and your approach to dealing with it, we apologize for that, after going through what we lost i created a compensation request on the forums which has the correct amount of all gear lost and price total, it accumulated 550k.

Check the compensation request forum if you want the full details.

 

[LordDakier]

I think it's pretty clear from both videos and the discussion here of what happened. Both parties have had their say, I've got nothing to add other than they refused to come into the main team speak to settle this and that I showed this a mentor, I believe it was I'mStyle but in all honesty I can't quite remember. It has no bearing on this anyway as of course they're only there to offer advice.

MrChee, please reply Yes/No to accepting liability if not can an admin close the thread then go onto review.

 

[MrChee]

Again the recording has to show before and after, i'm not particularly bothered, i was just letting you know as its one of the worst rules not to follow i've seen people get banned for it and i simply didn't want you to for it 

 Thanks, just found the page, i actually thought mine had more of the end included, i must have split it early sorry, the new one is uploaded here which shows the whole firefight from a few seconds before the other one cut.  

Yes i fired 3 shots, i don't deny this but my whole point was in the text you sent it suggests we fired first to initiate the firefight but this is not true due to you firing at Dakier and hitting in the leg.

I have to keep remembering that you are the MX guy and dakier is the one in the hobo clothes. I did fire the first warning shots which unfortunately hit dakier in the leg.

We have recently realized the that compensation we requested was very obscured since we was flustered at the situation and your approach to dealing with it, we apologize for that, after going through what we lost i created a compensation request on the forums which has the correct amount of all gear lost and price total, it accumulated 550k.

I found the comp request; £400k sounds much more reasonable than £1mil... However, Dakier only seemed to have a pistol, he was the one who was shot at in the initial engagement which you are questioning. Cookie then moved into a position, and surprised me as we didn't truly know who was in that car, then fired the first returning shot from the rifle. The terminal RP we hear from Dakier was 'do you know who i am' and something about putting hands up (might have been directed to our hostage) (only RP from cookie). 

Cookie has therefore entered into the fight by choice to help his teamamate, and that in effect should exempt him from compensation of his gear. You didn't attempt to retreat like we initially went to, or contact us to say you would leave, you advanced. 

In the video you provided we hear you talking about our movements, and laughing and treating it tactically.

-------------------------

My closing statement really is; if we had died and you hadn't would you have reported us; i don't think so, i think you would have been happy you won the fight you were not trying to escape from. In my honest opinion, you heard the compliance, got out the car with firearms drawn and then your only reply to being shot at was to advance. I continued to issue compliance throughout our movements. At the end of the video you were angry at each other for not watching flanks, not at us. 

It wasn't RDM; it wasn't maliciously shooting you randomly in the head in kavala to get your rifle, it wasn't half a second hands up shots fired. We responded to a clear threat in a dodgy area after you were clearly warned and had time to leave the scene, the RP maybe should have been better but thats sometimes how it pans out when you have to juggle two hostages, a wing man and new advancing hostiles. this is a slight RP issue not RDM. 

You tried to extort 1 million from us initially which was obviously way in excess, and then posted 550k here when the comp request is for 400k. For the firearm and gear on dakier, the comp would only be around £80k max. 

We have gone into fights we chose badly and lost, felt like it was maybe close to the RDM mark in our anger after but didn't report, because that isn't what altislife is about. I even got an orca chopped last week from a questionable encounter which i just let go as bad luck. RDM cant be called just because of a dissapointing outcome of a battle. 
I have good RP recommendations from my time on this server on the forums, know the rules and have never been in serious conflict my whole cumulative 6 months of play on this server. I hope the mentors and admins can see that Myself and mr wong aren't here to intentionally cause trouble, we look forward to playing after being at work for 9 hour shifts and so we value our few hours of game time every few nights, trying to make people laugh with our accents etc

------------------ off to city wok now to fry up some rabbit noodul ------------------- (edit, grammar)

 

[Neo]

No RDM, warnings were given, you were warned multiple times after to "just leave", but you didn't.

Rejected.