Police panic buttons.

[JordanDMK]

This post is NOT a suggestion to get rid of panic buttons. I'd like to suggest change to it.

Now its no surprise that police have the greatest weapon known as a panic button which essentially drops a gps on them with flashing text alerting all other cops. My only fault in this is how easily it is done.

The animation needs improving or changing, cop press their panic buttons so quickly and can go unnoticed with default character movement sometimes.
Now I could be wrong but I remember panic buttons having a noise when pressed which atleast gave the crims some notice to work with.
Is it not too easy for a cop to press a combination of keys for a panic button, realisticly they should pull up the radio and physically press the button, ontop of that wouldn't that information solely go to control which would then alert other units. The speed in the whole process is phenominal.

I'd love to actually see a command dispatching police to a panic button with clear comms and team work rather than bombarment from every cop that gets the immediate dispatch come through.

I also feel the noise of the panic button is important for the crims. It add pressure on time and allows for the choice of RP route. Stick around after the panic and risk it or do you immmediately leave with the chance of getting away.

I am writing this suggestion after having lost a valuable friend in the community who is tired of police that NVL with guns pointed at them hitting their panics. Now I am well aware there is a thread called "report a player" but unfortunately people lose motivation in it. Writing a report is not worth their time. He would come on to have fun and enjoy the RPUK environment, he didn't want to be endlessly replying to "report a player" posts.

So rather than having to make multiple reports and put up with complaints. Can change be made to make this tool fair for crims.

 

[Jesse]

I did see the farewell message in OOC and I am sorry to see someone go for that reason.

My opinion is unfortunately as you have mentioned. If you want police (& mentality) to change you'll need to start making the staff team aware of this problem. Again the easiest way to do so is to report the officers and this might feel like an uphill battle and I might hope if time and time again this issue is raised they will start intervening and crack down on this.

I do not think changing the mechanic will change the meta at the moment. A general dispatcher coordinating panics?
This is already happening with firearms when there is a TFC present. For Response and CID there is FIM but this is underused as the assets for this is lacking e.g. you cannot physicly track units which makes everything communication based which is when people dont talk extremely hard and usually is prone to fail. The rest remains based on Police procedures and policies which is something that only polcom has a say in.

I do like the idea to add a little sound perhaps a bleep or anything to a panic activation and have an option available for covert units to silent panic.

 

[Kayvan]

+1

I rarely post or comment anything but this is something that I find worth talking about.

I have had about six or seven encounters in the past couple of months where police that get told to not press their panic button and step out of the car with their hands up, try to stall by saying "huh??", "yea I'm working on it", "wow wow wow wow calm down" and purposely taking 5-10 VALUABLE seconds while pressing their panic button at the same time and trying to disguise it. Sometimes they don't even speak AT ALL. They are fully aware what they're doing and it makes it ten times harder for any criminal character to get away succesfully.

The police has nothing to lose, criminals do. That is also part of what makes it more fun, obviously. However the least a criminal will expect from this situation is that the person that has a gun to their head fully complies to what they're being told. I understand where the frustration comes from and why people would leave over this issue. It just makes it less fun being a criminal when the biggest faction instantly get's a whole battalion of cars ready to chase, instead of having a headstart because of those valuable first few seconds of a suprise "engage" being put to use.

 

[Bill Western]

+1

There is no RP to the police panic button just a quick keybind and before you know it 10 police cars are knocking on your door. I think either a continuous hold which puts the character in a radio animation, a noise which can be recognised when a panic has been pressed or simply saying that the press of a panic button is confirmed and was not on accident would be the correct response. This would change the course of RP for the better I’d say and would make police think wisely before spamming the panic button.

 

[James Wyatt]

I'd love to actually see a command dispatching police to a panic button with clear comms and team work rather than bombarment from every cop that gets the immediate dispatch come through.

There is not always command around to dispatch people to panics. When firearms are around in force we usually deploy something known as TFC as @Jesse has already said which is a general commander for all of firearms and tells us what to do and how many callsigns should go to each call etc. There is no issue with the mechanic itself imo, maybe a sound which crims can hear if it isn't already a thing however the "police" which you attempt to rob should just value their life instead.

The player report section is there for a reason, if someone NVLs report them and the problem will eventually stop as tbh I haven't seen many reports against police NVL as of recent

 

[JordanDMK]

There is not always command around to dispatch people to panics. When firearms are around in force we usually deploy something known as TFC as @Jesse has already said which is a general commander for all of firearms and tells us what to do and how many callsigns should go to each call etc. There is no issue with the mechanic itself imo, maybe a sound which crims can hear if it isn't already a thing however the "police" which you attempt to rob should just value their life instead.

The player report section is there for a reason, if someone NVLs report them and the problem will eventually stop as tbh I haven't seen many reports against police NVL as of recent

I fully respect that reporting will make a difference but at the same time causes a toxic enviroment. Shouldn't always have to rely on punishment in order for change.

 

[James Wyatt]

I fully respect that reporting will make a difference but at the same time causes a toxic enviroment. Shouldn't always have to rely on punishment in order for change.

Yes I fully agree, in a ideal world people wouldnt NVL but there isn't much me and you can do about it. Police are held to a higher standard and if they cant follow NVL imo they shouldn't be in the police. If its repeated NVL from the same people it should at least be looked at

 

[L1L]

I think a delay could solve this issue quite efficiently, something like this:

To activate the panic alert one must hold down the key-bind for X amount of time (i suggest 2-3 seconds which should be plenty of time to ''stop'' the alert).
At the press of the button the familiar ''beep'' would sound and the animation of pressing said button would maintain whilst it being held down.

Something like this would force police to use the panic button function smarter and reconsider the risks of doing so in plain sight of potential aggressors.

 

[Marcus Fisher]

I do prefer @L1L 's idea. This would be an improvement to both Crims and Police. Police for a smaller amount of "Accidental Panics" and makes sure Police NVL stops.

Though if this was the case, the animation to hold the radio should be on throughout like you are "reaching for it".

Big +1 for this idea but was a -1 before this.

 

[Joe Scrub]

+1 to the panic activation being a 1-3s animation (even if it's just the default press radio anim that works fine) with a sound (if there isn't one already).

 

[Atlas]

realisticly they should pull up the radio and physically press the button, ontop of that wouldn't that information solely go to control which would then alert other units.

So the radios we have do work pretty similar to how the airwaves systems we use within the UK emergency services, with the exception that on the server they don’t openly broadcast everything, which works to crims advantage here.

What Lil said is actually a solid idea, a 1/2 second or so long press (like irl) would not only stop the accidental panic whilst running and pointing, it will help stop police being sneaky and trying to cancel or hide the animation, and hopefully help stop the boring “don’t panic hands up” robbery meta.

I don’t however think the beep should be audible, as the radios themselves are not open mic so if you were to hear the beep, you’d also hear all police radio comms. Keeps an element of risk for the crims if they don’t openly see it being pressed.

As echoed above, -1 to the original suggested change and +1 to a short but fair time delay being added where you would need to hold the keybind and the animation.

 

[Joe Scrub]

Having read the above I think an animation is enough with no beep or vica verse, don't need both.

 

[Kate Anderson]

Having read the above I think an animation is enough with no beep or vica verse, don't need both.

There is an animation tho, a short one but there is one.

 

[Chilli]

I think a delay could solve this issue quite efficiently, something like this:

To activate the panic alert one must hold down the key-bind for X amount of time (i suggest 2-3 seconds which should be plenty of time to ''stop'' the alert).
At the press of the button the familiar ''beep'' would sound and the animation of pressing said button would maintain whilst it being held down.

Something like this would force police to use the panic button function smarter and reconsider the risks of doing so in plain sight of potential aggressors.

Only issue with this there is already a delay between pressing and everything in game happening. Ive been reported before because "I pressed my panic after they said not to" despite fact I hit it as soon as their gun came out before they even spoke. SO what about the already delay like rn yeah once its pressed it happens but there is already a visable delay. Does that then make it 5-6 seconds for a panic to actually be pressed or what then.

 

[L1L]

Only issue with this there is already a delay between pressing and everything in game happening. Ive been reported before because "I pressed my panic after they said not to" despite fact I hit it as soon as their gun came out before they even spoke. SO what about the already delay like rn yeah once its pressed it happens but there is already a visable delay. Does that then make it 5-6 seconds for a panic to actually be pressed or what then.

this kind of makes the whole point of my suggestion void, no matter who you are you have to see that the panic button is an extremely powerful tool wich could use a slight nerf. We're talking seconds (if this was to be implemented) not minutes.

 

[Avion Solar]

So I will weigh into this and as part of my consideration to responding to this I have conducted a test on what the delay is for the activation of the panic button. Thease are for my PC conducted when there was a low number of people on the server and I was in a quiet place as such I had a good framerate and no lag. Your Milage may vary
Recording at 60fps I found it took:
12 frames from pressing the button to the despatch starting to appear very faintly and left hand to be fully in the pushed radio animation (0.18 seconds)
37 frames from pressing to the audio activating for the panic (0.62 seconds)
88 frames from hand being fully up to being fully down again (1.47 seconds)
This would leave the whole activation animation at about 100 frames (1.67 seconds)
I do have the video of this should anyone want to view it
One thing that needs to be considered is the human reaction time according to the IMHC is around 0.25 seconds for visual stimulus (https://www.ihmc.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/2021-03-Reaction-Time-2.pdf)
And then once reacted people actually have to press the keys on their keyboard
When I am playing I will panic the moment I feel something is turning for example a few weeks ago I was stationary at a traffic light, and someone pulled up next to me and started chatting to me. I felt something was off so the moment I got out of my car I went to press my panic button however by the time I had pressed it he had just started saying "Dont push your panic button and produced a gun" I looked back at that footage and worked out it was 100ms (0.1 seconds) from him saying don't push it to the animation of me pushing it and he then shot me for pressing it (Not the best RP form him I don't think tbh but I spoke with them about it afterwards)

Now I know this may seem like I'm just rambling however there is a point to it. I agree with what has been said that NVL can be an issue not just for the police but on both sides police and civs. If there is an incident that is believed to be this then it should be dealt with through the appropriate channels such as Liaisons and if needed reports but one thing to bear in mind when considering this in relation to panic buttons being pressed is what I have set out above. By the time you have told someone not to press it they may have either:
1. Already pressed the buttons
2. Not have pressed them however the reaction time is such that it is too late to stop it

I agree that the panic button is a very powerful and effective tool however I do not think it requires any further modifications, there is already an animation for it which as I have proven lasts over 1.5 seconds and it isn't a subtle animation and I would say that if an offcier is able to use it sneakily then the person robbing them simply wasn't being observant enough. If however, it is the officer cancelling the animation I believe that is an exploit and should be dealt with accordingly.

The suggestion that the panic button should be held for longer I disagree with on the grounds that sometimes ins pressed in the middle of a fist fight, when offciers are being shot at or attacked in other ways. Would you have us attempting to defend ourselves, run away take cover ext while trying to hold Shift + B especially in those circumstances where the seconds matter such as a knife attack?

Overall picking a fight with the police whether that be attacking them, or attempting to rob them should be taken with great consideration and the knowledge that it is difficult. The panic button I would argue is one of the best deterrents that all officers have and is more effective at keeping officers safe than even Avant Guarde weapons as it does allow for someone in trouble everyone get to their response that can even be seen in IRL policing. Over the past few months we as the LSPS have been nerfing ourselves to try to reduce the gun meta and improve roleplay and I for one am of the belief this is a nerf that is not needed and other avenues could be explored in relation to NVL and panic buttons

 

[JordanDMK]

So I will weigh into this and as part of my consideration to responding to this I have conducted a test on what the delay is for the activation of the panic button. Thease are for my PC conducted when there was a low number of people on the server and I was in a quiet place as such I had a good framerate and no lag. Your Milage may vary
Recording at 60fps I found it took:
12 frames from pressing the button to the despatch starting to appear very faintly and left hand to be fully in the pushed radio animation (0.18 seconds)
37 frames from pressing to the audio activating for the panic (0.62 seconds)
88 frames from hand being fully up to being fully down again (1.47 seconds)
This would leave the whole activation animation at about 100 frames (1.67 seconds)
I do have the video of this should anyone want to view it
One thing that needs to be considered is the human reaction time according to the IMHC is around 0.25 seconds for visual stimulus (https://www.ihmc.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/2021-03-Reaction-Time-2.pdf)
And then once reacted people actually have to press the keys on their keyboard
When I am playing I will panic the moment I feel something is turning for example a few weeks ago I was stationary at a traffic light, and someone pulled up next to me and started chatting to me. I felt something was off so the moment I got out of my car I went to press my panic button however by the time I had pressed it he had just started saying "Dont push your panic button and produced a gun" I looked back at that footage and worked out it was 100ms (0.1 seconds) from him saying don't push it to the animation of me pushing it and he then shot me for pressing it (Not the best RP form him I don't think tbh but I spoke with them about it afterwards)

Now I know this may seem like I'm just rambling however there is a point to it. I agree with what has been said that NVL can be an issue not just for the police but on both sides police and civs. If there is an incident that is believed to be this then it should be dealt with through the appropriate channels such as Liaisons and if needed reports but one thing to bear in mind when considering this in relation to panic buttons being pressed is what I have set out above. By the time you have told someone not to press it they may have either:
1. Already pressed the buttons
2. Not have pressed them however the reaction time is such that it is too late to stop it

I agree that the panic button is a very powerful and effective tool however I do not think it requires any further modifications, there is already an animation for it which as I have proven lasts over 1.5 seconds and it isn't a subtle animation and I would say that if an offcier is able to use it sneakily then the person robbing them simply wasn't being observant enough. If however, it is the officer cancelling the animation I believe that is an exploit and should be dealt with accordingly.

The suggestion that the panic button should be held for longer I disagree with on the grounds that sometimes ins pressed in the middle of a fist fight, when offciers are being shot at or attacked in other ways. Would you have us attempting to defend ourselves, run away take cover ext while trying to hold Shift + B especially in those circumstances where the seconds matter such as a knife attack?

Overall picking a fight with the police whether that be attacking them, or attempting to rob them should be taken with great consideration and the knowledge that it is difficult. The panic button I would argue is one of the best deterrents that all officers have and is more effective at keeping officers safe than even Avant Guarde weapons as it does allow for someone in trouble everyone get to their response that can even be seen in IRL policing. Over the past few months we as the LSPS have been nerfing ourselves to try to reduce the gun meta and improve roleplay and I for one am of the belief this is a nerf that is not needed and other avenues could be explored in relation to NVL and panic buttons

I appreciate the effort you've gone through but the animation is easily missed when you have a cop wasting time "taking seatbelts off" or "unlocking their car" I'm not sure if there is a animation prompt for taking the seatbelt off but I'm sure there is for unlocking the car. There is numerous individuals I have caught who do not value their life enough and listen to direct demands.

The obvious I always see is people asking questions with guns pointed at their head. Realisitcly when a gun is pointed at you it is time for listening not questioning.

I agree making reports is the obvious route to take on this but would you not also agree this would lead to a more than it already is toxic environment for cops vs crims. Far too many people take IC actions to heart and cannot walk away from RPUK without it affecting their everyday life.

Police already have the majority power and it will always be a calculated risk targeting them. But it shouldn't be a losing situation at every occasion. Being kidnapped is part of RP and should be enjoyable for all participants. If you do not enjoy the RP given that is down to "kidnapped" to take up with the "kidnapper"

I still firmly believe L1L suggestion is fair but I would add a audiable noise. Would this not also work in the police favour as a deterant?

Edit:
To add to those few cops who believe the occult are just "glorified rob and dump group" you are to blame for your outcome. Many people have walked away for giving good RP back. You can only blame yourself for accepting you're going to die. At no point during occult situations do we tell you "you're going to die". It is of upmost importance to us to keep it that way so that cops continue with RP rather than wait to die.

Believe me when I tell you, its not enjoyable for us when we get a cop who gives blunt replies and waits to die. We have worked hard to structure a script that gives the kidnapped a oppurtunity to walk away. But it is down to YOU to RP it.

 

[__saiint__]

I play both cop and crim. I've both been kidnapped as police and kidnapped police. In my honest opinion there is nothing wrong with the current panic button - its there for a purpose, and it works well. Kidnapping, attacking, escaping police shouldn't be easy - yes being kidnapped as police is part of a very niche and over-used RP storyline, but it shouldn't be without its risks. If there is an issue with NVL then raise it in QE with the offending player. The police are there to RP with everyone, they aren't there to be easily kidnapped or used as target practice and icl if the panic button changed that's exactly what would become all too common. I know a major part of your organisations RP is based around kidnapping public officials and police officers so I can see why you want this Whiskey, but there is a reason the panic button has been implemented and I believe nerfing this would decrease the quality of RP across the server dramatically as there would be no police left to RP with - either because they would have been killed, kidnapped or simply wouldn't bother coming on due to being targeted instead of taking part in actual decent RP. The police aren't a gang, they are there to cater for and RP with everyone whether it be prevention of crime or community engagement, modifying the panic button to make it easier to target them only benefits gang RP and will start a path to more of a frag mentality on the server. I fully expect you to disagree with me but as someone who enjoys both sides of RP, that's my 2 cents.

EDIT - I thought it did make a noise when pressed, if not it could be a decent addition.

 

[Avion Solar]

I appreciate the effort you've gone through but the animation is easily missed when you have a cop wasting time "taking seatbelts off" or "unlocking their car" I'm not sure if there is a animation prompt for taking the seatbelt off but I'm sure there is for unlocking the car. There is numerous individuals I have caught who do not value their life enough and listen to direct demands.

The obvious I always see is people asking questions with guns pointed at their head. Realisitcly when a gun is pointed at you it is time for listening not questioning.

I agree making reports is the obvious route to take on this but would you not also agree this would lead to a more than it already is toxic environment for cops vs crims. Far too many people take IC actions to heart and cannot walk away from RPUK without it affecting their everyday life.

Police already have the majority power and it will always be a calculated risk targeting them. But it shouldn't be a losing situation at every occasion. Being kidnapped is part of RP and should be enjoyable for all participants. If you do not enjoy the RP given that is down to "kidnapped" to take up with the "kidnapper"

I still firmly believe L1L suggestion is fair but I would add a audiable noise. Would this not also work in the police favour as a deterant?

Edit:
To add to those few cops who believe the occult are just "glorified rob and dump group" you are to blame for your outcome. Many people have walked away for giving good RP back. You can only blame yourself for accepting you're going to die. At no point during occult situations do we tell you "you're going to die". It is of upmost importance to us to keep it that way so that cops continue with RP rather than wait to die.

Believe me when I tell you, its not enjoyable for us when we get a cop who gives blunt replies and waits to die. We have worked hard to structure a script that gives the kidnapped a oppurtunity to walk away. But it is down to YOU to RP it.

Thank you for the reply and the effort you have put into it. IN relation to the seat belt thing I did not comment on that as I just wanted to address the panic buttion issue I will address it now and idk if you have ever seen my stream but I am useless with getting out of cars when i have a seatbelt on because i got lazy with not wearing it and im now effectively trying to rewire myself to wear it and it usually goes something like this: https://gyazo.com/a63e49f2c3ff5215aab67cbe597ec2f7
and that wasnt in the middle of a stressful situation lol

in relation to the question thing i would say that someone could argue it is a stressful situation and they were acting like they're in shock. I woudl also add from a police POV crims are just as guilty of this or even just outright running away with guns aimed at them see my most recent player report video:

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I agree that kidnapping RP should be enjoyable for both sides, I can recall an incident a couple of years back now where I was kidnapped by the most useless and unprepared kidnappers I have ever met however it was enjoyable and got some good RP from it. However, the quality of some people is horrific tbh its a case of Hand sup, Zip tie Taken someone you try talking and get told to shut up drop your stuff followed by a long walk back to the city and its a shame because it can be enjoyable and fun roleplay but I fear the amount of Shit RP that's offered sometimes puts officers off wanting to partake in it and leads to the just kill me mentality. for reference:

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)

I sadly agree with what you said about people not being able to separate their characters and IRL but one of the midgrounds is Liason so both parties can talk though the incident and try resolve the bad feeling before it get reported or before the staff have to intervene.

In realtion to the audable beep as i said before the visual cue is quite recognisable and as an individaul would you not do what you could to save your own life so if you did find a moment when someone wasnt paying attention press it however having that cue would take that away, in addition I dont always want people to know I have pressed it say I see something right next to me such as an individaul I know has a gun but isn tshowing it and I dont want themy to know I want othe runits here I may press it to ge tother officers there immediately without him hearing me say ont he radio that i want the backup. I cna however see how it would act as a deterrent if the sound was played

p.es sorry for the spelling

 

[SteveStacy]

Either it should have to be held down for 3/5 seconds OR after it has been pressed, there is a -10/15 second delay for when other officers receive it.