NHS Reviving Whilst Under Threat

[Butch]

NHS Reviving Whilst Under Threat​

Detailed Rule Suggestion:

Currently 11.2 states that NHS are to consult alive police officers at scene and if they are not any alive consult rebels a rebel can then request them to not revive a person and they have to obey. I suggest changing the current rule from:
" (11.2) If attending to a crime scene, do not revive or move any injured people without consulting with the nearest police officer. If there are no alive police officers in the area instead consult with nearest rebel / gang member. If it is made clear that you are not to treat any individuals then please accept that request and do not treat any indicated person(s). "
To
(11.2) If attending to a crime scene, do not revive or move any injured people without consulting with the nearest police officer. If there are no alive police officers in the area instead consult with nearest rebel / gang member. If it is made clear that you are not to treat any individuals then please accept that request and do not treat any indicated person(s). If it is made clear that you are under threat to revive any individuals by rebels / Poseidon you must comply unless shots have been fired recently or a police officer is available at the scene to consult with.






Outline how your rule will improve the server/community:

Will stop the current powergaming that seems to be increasing with medics refusing to treat people whilst having a gun pointed at them but simply don't care due to not being able to anything against them. Rebels get a chance to get more hostages and would also avoid having people help their friends by refusing to revive them to avoid getting them taken hostage.

Think about any bad points your rule suggestion might have:

Can't think of any but im sure others might...

What punishment if any should breach of this rule have:

Based on their current ban history 24 48 hr bans.

 

[ShadowDirector]

BIG FAT +1

 

[Nuclear]

Had a lot of issues with medics lately regarding this +1

 

[Kempi Anderson]

If it is made clear that you are under threat to revive any individuals by rebels / Poseidon you must comply

I can already see this leading to a medic being kidnapped by rebels to revive their friends. What's stopping me from going to Kavala threatening a medic and telling him to revive my friend in Athira?

I think a better way to solve the issue would be to speak with NHS command about the issue rather then make a very specific rule that can very easily be abused. I'm sure the NHS Command will be able to solve this issue if they're made aware and given evidence.

This seems like a silly issue that is probably caused by a few medics and I don't think the NHS as a whole should be allowed to be kidnapped due to the actions of a few medics.

I'd personally leave this to NHS Command to deal with and if they are unable to sort it out move back to making a rule suggestion to fix the issue.

 

[Butch]

I can already see this leading to a medic being kidnapped by rebels to revive their friends. What's stopping me from going to Kavala threatening a medic and telling him to revive my friend in Athira?

[SIZE=medium](11.1) Medics are not allowed to follow gangs, Police or Poseidon around. Please patrol the full island of Altis or whatever hospital area you have been assigned to.[/SIZE]

Isn't this covering that tho? This rule suggestion is only regarding medics reviving people on scene when threatned by rebels not kidnapping a medic lmao. If it would be really necessary tho it could be included in the rule that you are not allowed to kidnap medics but im fairly sure anyone who has been here longer than 2 weeks already know that and can be covered by common sense rule.

I think a better way to solve the issue would be to speak with NHS command about the issue rather then make a very specific rule that can very easily be abused. I'm sure the NHS Command will be able to solve this issue if they're made aware and given evidence.

Already have, nothing came out of it, hence why i made this suggestion.

 

[Kempi Anderson]

[SIZE=medium](11.1) Medics are not allowed to follow gangs, Police or Poseidon around. Please patrol the full island of Altis or whatever hospital area you have been assigned to.[/SIZE]

Isn't this covering that tho? This rule suggestion is only regarding medics reviving people on scene when threatned by rebels not kidnapping a medic lmao. If it would be really necessary tho it could be included in the rule that you are not allowed to kidnap medics but im fairly sure anyone who has been here longer than 2 weeks already know that and can be covered by common sense rule.

At this point you would have 2 rule contradicting each other, and let's be honest people will find loopholes and abuse every single word they can find in a rule. 

I am not allowed to follow gangs but gangs are allowed to threaten me to take me to their mate to revive at which point I would be following them. and if I deny their request to follow them I would also be breaking the rule of not abiding by their threat.

This has barely never been an issue in 5 years of RPUK and it being a big deal now probably just points towards a certain group of medics acting in this manner rather then the NHS as whole. 
Granted I've never agreed with medics being completely immune to rebels but I don't think forcing medics to act in a certain way as soon as a weapon is drawn on them is the correct way of solving the issue. Just look at rule 11.4 which is already being abused by rebels to where they pull a pistol and shoot to get rid of medics instead of actually talking to them

 

[Butch]

At this point you would have 2 rule contradicting each other, and let's be honest people will find loopholes and abuse every single word they can find in a rule. 

Easy enough to edit then im sure staff would be better at making it solid hence why im bringing it up.

This has barely never been an issue in 5 years of RPUK and it being a big deal now probably just points towards a certain group of medics acting in this manner rather then the NHS as whole. 

It has if you have been actively playing rebel and been trying to get cops up or your mates you would know that it has since i started playing in 2016 been a issue. The question has been raised to their command multiple times but nothing has happend. Hell i would be for making you able to kill medics but i doubt that would be accepted.

 

[Steve Shelby]

Can't the Rebel/Poseidon just shoot into the air? that's a good enough indication that they're not allowed to revive the person, also means they have to leave the area immediately. 

 

[Butch]

Can't the Rebel/Poseidon just shoot into the air? that's a good enough indication that they're not allowed to revive the person, also means they have to leave the area immediately. 

This suggestion is not about making them leave under threat, but instead about them reviving if they have guns pointed at them / are being threathned by rebels / poseidon.

 

[Steve Shelby]

This suggestion is not about making them leave under threat, but instead about them reviving if they have guns pointed at them / are being threathned by rebels / poseidon.

Ohhh, I see it now, I read it as "If you're under threat to revive someone, don't revive them"
-- It would make sense that the NHS member would revive someone if they're being commanded to at gun point, personally I just do that anyway for fearRP, but I've just looked and FearRP isn't even a thing in this server (I might just be blind) But it's common sense for the medic to be forced to revive people (But let's say the person has to also be in the area to stop rebels kidnapping medics and driving them halfway across the map)

+1

 

[Aiden]

@CMO Jeffrey @CMO Louie Austino @CMO Phoenix What are your thoughts on this, how would you propose we deal with this?

 

[Louie Austino]

I see the reasoning behind your suggestion @Butch , However as previously stated by @Kempi Anderson there are 2 rules that would contradict each other. There are a few rules in regarding the NHS that can cause difficulty in some situations and by rebels/Poseidon being able to threaten Medics to revive people, where would you propose this control over a medic starts or ends? Whats to Stop a gang refusing to let a Medic leave in order for them to bring more downed gang members to them? Picture Scene. Gunfight is ensuing, a medic lands to help an innocent guy and a member of a gang involved in the GF refuses requests from the medic to allow them to leave. That medic then becomes a revive station solely for that gang. This would prevent other people from being revived and could fall under Rule 11.1 and possibly 11.5. We could obviously say you can't do that but whats to stop it from happening?

Outline how your rule will improve the server/community:

Will stop the current powergaming that seems to be increasing with medics refusing to treat people whilst having a gun pointed at them but simply don't care due to not being able to anything against them. Rebels get a chance to get more hostages and would also avoid having people help their friends by refusing to revive them to avoid getting them taken hostage.

Had a lot of issues with medics lately regarding this +1

I'm amazed at the amount of times i say this and to be honest its starting to get tedious. If anyone has any ISSUES/COMPLAINTS regarding a Medics actions LET ME KNOW. Im sure your aware but im not some magical mind reader nor can i spend 24 hours a day 7 days a week watching the actions of every medic on patrol no matter how much I'd love to spend my valuable time doing so. 
We can only rely on information given to us, If we aren't told, HOW CAN WE KNOW THESE ARE ISSUES?!

Already have, nothing came out of it, hence why i made this suggestion.

May I ask who you spoke to?

The question has been raised to their command multiple times but nothing has happend.

I have not heard of this suggestion, that may be down to poor communication or the correct ways of Suggesting changes wasn't followed. IE the glorious Suggestions form we have. (That is checked near enough daily) https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdXolT9yTXu-YpykHjNmzZxrLJhBFmHMuWgJA3XEEEOUp4MoA/viewform

Can't the Rebel/Poseidon just shoot into the air? that's a good enough indication that they're not allowed to revive the person, also means they have to leave the area immediately. 

This my friend is fail RP. If a rebel can't find a way within RP to make a medic leave a patient but resorts to rule playing to do so, send a video to staff.

Personally, I feel that if a medic is threatened to revive someone they should within reason. My Concerns lie with when does the threat end. Whats to stop a rebel constantly threatening a medic thus making there experience as NHS poor and unrewarding. No one wants to be told what to do 24/7, what would be a suitable backstop to prevent constant abuse of this new suggested rule?

I'm more than happy to respond to any Questions/queries, i can only apologies for not seeing this thread sooner. Thanks for the tag @Aiden

 

[Butch]

May i ask who you spoke to?

 

I havent personally spoken to any however friends that have been involved in the same situation i know have brought it to Phoneix. I also dropped a comment bout it a few meetings ago which got overlooked and not answered. 

Regarding the 2 rules contradicting eachother i can see it now however im sure staff leads / staff are happy to edit it so the outcome is good for everyone.

 

[Louie Austino]

 
I havent personally spoken to any however friends that have been involved in the same situation i know have brought it to Phoneix. I also dropped a comment bout it a few meetings ago which got overlooked and not answered. 

Regarding the 2 rules contradicting eachother i can see it now however im sure staff leads / staff are happy to edit it so the outcome is good for everyone.

Well then, it's quite clear why nothing fruitful has been produced. It wasn't brought to our direct attention from yourself as you have stated. In regards to the Meeting, I personally don't remember any such message but meetings are quite a hectic time, if it did go unanswered (apologies) why not message one of us directly? If you message me I guarantee a response unless you close the chat.

 

[Butch]

Well that's quite clear why nothing fruitful has been produced. It wasn't brought to our direct attention from yourself. In regards to the Meeting, I personally don't remember any such message but meetings are quite a hectic time, if it did go unanswered (apologies) why not message one of us directly. If you message me I guarantee a response unless you close the chat.

To be frank i did not care enough, at that point it had only happened a few times but it started getting worse and worse hence why i posted this rule suggestion. Didn't even know NHS had their own internal suggestion thing. In regards to me not bringing it myself i did not see the point in spamming your command with complaints and figured one from the same situation would do the job.

 

[Louie Austino]

To be frank i did not care enough, at that point it had only happened a few times but it started getting worse and worse hence why i posted this rule suggestion. Didn't even know NHS had their own internal suggestion thing. In regards to me not bringing it myself i did not see the point in spamming your command with complaints and figured one from the same situation would do the job.

I understand you not wanting to approach us, but a single reported incident does not amount to an entire rule overhaul. From this suggestion i can see it is wanted by some. If we receive multiple complaints regarding the same issues, of course we are going to look into the issue on a larger scale. I will talk to Phoenix and Jeffery regarding this suggestion. For future reference, I'd much rather be spammed with complaints than receive none at all.