Medics do their jobs once in a while?

[EvansChris]

Over 15 minutes I waited for a service that never came, i watched the action feed to see if there was a large quantity of people dying or not, but this wasn't the case. they didn't even attempt to come towards me. Also upon re spawn I learned that 3 of the 4 medics playing where stood together discussing the items they had. with over 80 people on the server at the time I don't see how anyone wasn't dead? 

The items I had on me wasn't as much the complaint, but the fact the medics seem to be doing nothing. I was only carrying $45k(As I was on my way to buy a pistol and some ammo), some clothes/5K bag and like 65 apples. But I also wasted 20 minutes staring at a respawn screen and my car is probably gone too. 

I was at the solar power station upon dying, as I tried to fast jump the ladders from about half way on the first set on my way down, noobishly died from a 3foot drop.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/evanschris/screenshots/?appid=107410&sort=newestfirst&browsefilter=myfiles&view=imagewall 
link to several screenshots taken every few minutes while i wait for the 4 medics to not even move

 

[Ben_Banned]

And yet they will come to the thread and defend themselves.

The reason the NHS gets so much shit is because of this and it's ridiculous and they have been trying to fix the same issues since November which is when I joined the server it's probably been going on longer than that, yes you are in the NHS to role play but that doesn't mean 5 of the medics online need to go around and pussyfoot about at the same situation taking 20 minutes of real time with each patient, the last time I waited for a medic there was 3 online one came as close as 900m stopped for 5 minutes then went in the other direction, so if that isn't a gang member refusing to revive people of enemy gangs while on as a medic which shouldn't happen but always has and will then it's another one of the Police forces pathetic "DNR" marks on the map which is also bullshit, if somebody was shot down by a Police officer in real life they would still be given the maximum medical attention regardless of what they have done, leaving someone to "die" is not how things work.

Edit: Didn't see this was in compensation requests but should probably be in chat.

 

[Xbuzz]

I don't play a medic on this server, but have done on others. Honestly, I wouldn't criticise medics unless you've played one. Play one for at least an hour and you guys will never say what you have said again.

This server, because it's based on more role-play than other servers means that most medics will be driving towards the scene of your death, rather than flying.

This takes a long time, and they have to role-play when they get there. It takes time, and it's not their fault. Fact is on most servers, including this one, medic is extremely hard to play. They earn extremely little cash, their gameplay is repetitive, yet all medics i've seen on this server have far higher roleplay than anyone else.

From my experience, including police who are supposed to be the best role-players on the server (thats wrong it's medics), most people will request a medic and then after a few minutes they will just respawn. It's incredibly frustrating for a medic on this server since most drive cars, and there is no penalty for requesting a medic and then just respawning a minute later.

I can guarantee that medic training officers will agree with me. They train alot of medics, but most don't even stay active for a week, as most servers (including this one) disregard medic dynamics. Most medics only last a couple of weeks, then they will never log on as one again.

 

[Ambassador Fung]

And yet they will come to the thread and defend themselves.

The reason the NHS gets so much shit is because of this and it's ridiculous and they have been trying to fix the same issues since November which is when I joined the server it's probably been going on longer than that, yes you are in the NHS to role play but that doesn't mean 5 of the medics online need to go around and pussyfoot about at the same situation taking 20 minutes of real time with each patient, the last time I waited for a medic there was 3 online one came as close as 900m stopped for 5 minutes then went in the other direction, so if that isn't a gang member refusing to revive people of enemy gangs while on as a medic which shouldn't happen but always has and will then it's another one of the Police forces pathetic "DNR" marks on the map which is also bullshit, if somebody was shot down by a Police officer in real life they would still be given the maximum medical attention regardless of what they have done, leaving someone to "die" is not how things work.

Edit: Didn't see this was in compensation requests but should probably be in chat.

Usually the only circumstance you're supposed to be DNR'd is if there isn't enough Police available to arrest/transport/process at the time. That being said I have only ever done it to those that RDM. 

Back on topic, there can be 5 or so Medics on at a time lets say but usually a couple are students who can't travel on their own. Whilst I do think response times need to improve and maybe the length of the RP reduced. I love RP it's why i'm here but you can't spend 10 minutes with each patient because then people aren't being seen to. This is one of those things where the medics can't win because they'd get moaned at for reducing the RP but now they're moaned at because there isn't enough of them covering a large area or they're taking too long.

To @EvansChris I challenge you to spend a week as a medic and give quality roleplay throughout. You will get complaints no matter what you do my friend, but i'd like to see if you do a better job.

 

[Remix]

Usually the only circumstance you're supposed to be DNR'd is if there isn't enough Police available to arrest/transport/process at the time. That being said I have only ever done it to those that RDM. 

I remember when I died at the weed processor alone and my body was surrounded by cops for 10 minutes. After they left I insisted to wait for a medic that was <300 metres away however he left the scene along with cops because they issued a DNR on me so I respawned. That was only a one time occurrence showing it's not usually the medics fault for not being able to revive people.

I think it would be nice to add a feature where the medics can send an alert to the downed player notifying them if the medics are coming to them next, it would lead to less pointless trips for medics but would be very unrealistic.

It would also be nice if people thought about the actual player before issuing a DNR on them for no reason, a few times I've encountered this is because they simply don't like the player/gang they're affiliated with so I'd like to mention that it's an adult community and doing this is very immature. How would you feel if you were dead for 20 minutes with a pointless DNR? I'd be pretty pissed tbh.

(Rather off-topic)

But I agree that some medics do spend a long time role-playing but they're usually the best ones, especially when it goes beyond the standard checkup and turns into a fun experience.

 

[Edgar Ville]

Wow this thread....

Firstly I have moved it, you are not going to receive compensation for jumping off a ladder, not using the template and then using your comp request to bash medics.

Secondly to those of you who would criticize anybody for roleplaying a scenario through to the end instead of rushing off because a new opportunity for (possibly) poor roleplay has arisen: shame on you, this is a game.
Being revived by a medic is not a guaranteed luxury, when it happens you should play it through with them, give them a reason to continue going around to revive.
Attacking them for doing the lowest paid (in decent roleplay) job on the island is just selfish.

 

[Daanish]

OK. Another one of these topics? Lets get into it.

Firstly I'll tag some people who I think will agree with me on this and voice their side:

@CMO Marc Smith

@Shalloa

@GP. Lharmon

@GP. John Feltham

@Hatchingdragon

@bobmarley (Tagging you 'cause I think I saw you made a good point in a thread similar to this)

When people come and ask "Why is the medic not reviving me?", I fire back the question: 

"What is this server about?".

The answer?

Roleplay. "But wha-" NO. Roleplay. Look at the second sentence in the rules page:

Altis Life UK is a serious roleplay community, If you are coming from another Altis Life community please erase that memory from your mind as things are much different here and very much focused around RP rather than combat.

It's my understanding that a lot of people simply respawn since when they die in a gunfight as they have lost their most expensive items if they die (e.g. Gun, Ammo, Clothing, Cash). And when people die due to accidents (Crashed car), they stay to get revived in order to keep their expensive items. I will admit that at time I too am like this, however, I think we all agree that this isn't the way it should be. Everyone should strive to detach themselves from the items, and focus more on the aspect of playing as a community, with friends, and enjoying some good RP and generally having fun on the server. No - one should be grinding weed runs all day every day. What's the fun in that? If you get arrested you see it as a nuisance instead of an opportunity to hone roleplay skills and see if you can get out of it.

Moving onto medics in particular now....

As part of the NHS, our only "weapon" is Roleplay, and we were picked to be a medic as we are damn good at it. I understand that this means that situations do last for a long time in some cases, but as I said before, isn't that what it is all about? Wouldn't you want to share in the experience too? All it costs is waiting a few more minutes....

In regards to medics travelling as a group, you have to understand that Students are like CSO's. You cannot have them running around on their own, especially if they haven't played before. They will just end up going wrong and giving the NHS a bad name. They need to travel with higher ranks so that they can learn, and in turn provide good roleplay and the ability to help others learn. I found a really good thread explaining this, but I can't seem to find it again. I will edit this post and link it if I do. 

@TI Ben In your post you spoke about medics coming close, then leaving again. As a medic yourself, you know the revive priority (Medics, Cops, Civ), but if you are close to a civ you should revive them first. As a result, the only conclusion to why you weren't revived is due to a DNR (Which you pointed out yourself). A DNR is not there to inhibit RP or medical attention, it is there to stop rebels or cops being revived, picking up their gun, and carrying on a gunfight. (This is also why we have the no combat reviving rule and medic rule B). If this happened, the firefights would last until all medics disconnected, which would be tedious for both sides.  We introduced the DNR rule as both medics and cops were using it to their advantage. For example, this is what currently happens:

Rebel 1: *kills cop* Medic, don't revive that officer + Other RP

Medic: Sure Thing + Other RP. *Places DNR on Cop and Rebel 1*

Rebel 1: *dies*

Rebel 2: Medic, revive rebel 1 (After gunfight is over)

Medic: No can do. He has a DNR on his head until police arrive to arrest him.

What used to happen:

Rebel 1: *kills cop* Medic, don't revive that officer + Other RP

Medic: Sure Thing + Other RP. *Leaves the area*

Rebel 1: *dies*

Medic: *Obliged to help Rebel 1*

Rebel 1: *Continues to go about rebel ways and fighting without consequenes*.

Rebels can be subbed out for cops and vice versa. As you can see, people were getting an unfair advantage, and so the rule had to be implemented.

I have said all that I can think of at this moment. I will edit this thread in due course if I think of anything else to add. Anyone with questions feel free to ask in this thread, or come down to the NHS channels and we'll answer them there.

Regards,

- GP. Daanish [Head of Air Rescue]

 

[Professor bobmarley]

Just going to settle a few issues: 

We have a revival priority which goes other medics, police, then civilians and rebels 

Students cannot go on their own and if you're wondering why they can't you'll know why once you become a MD or higher, and @TI Ben considering you have the NHS tags I thought you would know this.

Also I'm just going to put this we don't have to log on to play as medics and revive people we do it because we want to revive people and for role play, and even when we are on duty we are still not obliged to revive you.  Yesterday I was watching Vladic's stream and saw on side chat two people were bad mouthing about the NHS so I went on TS and originally told the two medics on duty not to revive them two, but in the end I got both of them on to teamspeak and had a few words with them they went from bashing the NHS in sidechat to apologizing to both medics on duty. 

MD bobmarley

MTO

P.S If I am playing as a civilian and I see people bad mouthing about the medics in side chat I'll ask you to come on TS, if not I'll tell the medics on duty what you were saying on sidechat and ask them not to revive you.

EDIT: @EvansChris I would appreciate it if you could come on teamspeak so we could discuss your issues with the NHS

 

[O_oGuru]

What I do not understand is. Why are you not using helicopters to respond in the less densely populated areas?

I understand that Kavala is a special place. A great place for good roleplay, much action and challenging scenarios as to why you would use cars and spend a good amount of time roleplaying and giving a good experience.

What I do not understand is why there is not a helicopter unit based in Atheria; it's pretty central on the map and you can reach far with the helicopter. I for one knows somebody who is trying to enter the NHS with the hopes of someday filling that role (incase somebody thinks that nobody wants to be the guy out there flying around all the time).

I agree that the medics often are really good at roleplaying and seems to want to take the time to give everybody a nice experience and feel like that when you get medical attention all that matters are you - the one needing help - but I also believe that the effort needs to be dynamic. You can perform great roleplay in many ways; when there are little to do the lengthy, informative, fun, interacting roleplay is great, but in stressed situations one might be more focused and more direct with the roleplay (closer to what I have experienced with reallife medical attention) less explanation and jokes, and instead more clarifying and direct questions, and explanations of how the medic is going to deal with it.

I would also like to clear up that I have not read any documentation or received any training as a medic so I do not know what you get taught but I would like to read it if it is available somewhere to learn more about how you operate.

I like the idea of messaging the players who request a medic to tell them whether you are coming or not, how long you think it's going to take and when you are heading towards them. I understand that this may not be possible with how the respawn/request medic screen works. It would though certainly improved the experience for everybody requesting a medic outside Kavala. When you are in Kavala you often get revived, get great medical attention, great roleplay but as soon as you leave Kavala you start to feel like the medic do not care about/do not have time for/do not see you anymore. I have done the same thing as EvansChris explains about multiple times - I died because of a crash, I am a bit worked up so I will request a medic and cool down before continuing the game but after waiting for 15+ minutes and seeing the medic have not even made an attempt yet to come to your rescue... well you get annoyed. (To my defense I don't shame the NHS, especially not in sidechat, but I might let a little comment go in the teamspeak with those who I play with like "There is not much use to this huh?") 

The RP scenario for communicating with the player requesting medical attention would be that when you are requesting you are close to dying (really close) and is using some sort of device to call for help (in Denmark we have an app and special phones with a hotkey button that can call for help and send the GPS coordinates automatically when pressed) this would allow the medics to "talk" to the player as if the phone was on speaker mode.

TL;DR I would advise more focus on dynamic RP based the situation on the server, increasing the coverage and decrease the response time. Look into communication with player who requested medical attention.

 

[Mickeey]

@O_oGuru The reason behind us not being able to use helicopters is simply because; Helicopters are only made available when an NHS member reaches Tier 3, or the MD rank.  Because of the recent increase in Students we have had less MDs online and therefore not many medics who can pull out helicopters.

There also rules and restrictions behind the landing and aviation laws of medical helicopters - there are rules stating that we cannot land in certain cities or towns, and others that state we must only use the hospital helipads, meaning that someone may be down in Kavala, however we must land, impound the helicopter and pull out a vehicle to drive to the downed person.

====

All documentation given to new Students who join the NHS is confidential, we have not currently got an explaination booklet publically available, but we can look into one. If you were to join the NHS, you would recieve two nice pretty booklets telling you who we are, how we work and everything you need to be a medic.

The way I personally see the NHS, don't doubt it until you've tried it.

The reason for slow response times can sometimes be based on laziness, or a shortage of medics, however sometimes it can be a result of one or two people experiencing excellent roleplay, and I think anyone who enjoys this community will understand that when you have a fun and exciting roleplay session going, you do not want to let it go. So for all of the long response times from the NHS, we do try to give back with filling a small roleplay session with the best roleplay possible, leaving each person with a storyline to remember.

I would advise more focus on dynamic RP based the situation on the server, increasing the coverage and decrease the response time. Look into communication with player who requested medical attention.

The reason that we would struggle to increase the coverage and decrease the response time of revives would be because of the lack of medics currently - however the communication with players who actually request medical attention, can sometimes be misleading - many people think that clicking request medic, were going to suddenly appear. However when arriving at the persons body who had requested a medic, they wait until you are 20m away and respawn.

To put it simply, it's tough being a medic in a serious roleplay community because to be honest, the community is split into half.

Theres those that would say "we want faster response times and shorter roleplay sessions"

However others may say "we will wait longer as long as we get a good, exciting roleplay session"

So like I said, don't doubt the NHS medics until you have tried being one, it's not easy to get into the medics, and it's certainly not easy getting complaints on your first few days.

===

And yet they will come to the thread and defend themselves.

Noone is necessarily defeding themselves, we try to show what we really do and the difficulty of working in the current state of the NHS within this community - if we recieve complaints, we are obviously going to respond to it accordingly, however rather than "defending ourselves" we would rather teach those who complain about what we do, and hope that they see the difficulty.

===

Dr. Mickeey [MTO]

 

[Samatlewis]

As stated above by many medics, there are various rules we must follow;

Revive priorities

3min gunfight rule

helicopter priority

no STU on their own

all of these rules have been implemented to stop the abuse that happened in the past. Too often i see people moaning about the NHS taking a long time to revive, bearing in mind that going to A&E would take longer in real life... 

It is annoying as a civ/cop to wait for medics, however the roleplay is often worth while, and you should enjoy the satisfaction of knowing that you are possibly helping a student get better at doing their job, enhancing their roleplay capabilities thus enhancing the NHS as a whole.

Simply, if you want to cry about response times, go buy  a TRG and respawn every time you're downed, that way none of your time is  'wasted' and your bank account isn't hindered by costly weapons.

 

[Haywire]

I have a lot to say but i'm going to keep it simple with a few points.

-Cops should not issue DNR's ever on rebels and this is something I will try and put a stop to.

-Medics often patrol in large groups because of students not being able to go out on their own. It's not ideal, but quality roleplay is more important than the time it takes for you to get up. If you don't agree with that then roleplay clearly isn't your strong point.

-What you could try is a technique called "Dying Less". This can often be achieved by not taking every cop you see hostage and robbing every citizen you come across. 

3 simple points, let me know if you have any questions or complaints.

 

[O_oGuru]

• Samatlewiss
• hatchingdraggon

What is going on here? Why are you now spewing these passive-aggressive statements that helps no one and only provokes a derailment of the threat?

As to what you are saying and what I am understanding from other people have contributed to this threat it's not about the money/gear/whatever it's about the usage of the medics. From my perspective we are trying to discuss what is the situation right now and how can we improve it.

Us the civs are sharing our experiences and ideas for improvement and the medics respond with their experiences, tell us rules of limitation and enlighten us on matters we might not know of (the amount of complaints).

My goal for entering this debate is not to belittle or shame anyone; I would rather help every at best. How can we help the medics do what the would like to do in a efficient way (turning some of the negative feedback into positive feedback) and how can we help the civs get a better understanding of what is going on and how to make the interaction with the medic go more smoothly and with less spite (when people feel let down).

A good community is a dynamic community; constantly evolving, learning, improving, changing - well at least from my perspective. 

 

[Scare83crow]

Was going to post on this but I see the others NHS boys have it covered.  Shame on all who question medics.  We do it not for money but for RP.  How would you like to be the one that receive poor RP because all the medic wants to do is run from point A to point B, C etc. Every revival is an opportunity to make someone's day with some quality RP that all medics are known for. Think then speak..... or try it then speak.

 

[Haywire]

• Samatlewiss
• hatchingdraggon

What is going on here? Why are you now spewing these passive-aggressive statements that helps no one and only provokes a derailment of the threat?

As to what you are saying and what I am understanding from other people have contributed to this threat it's not about the money/gear/whatever it's about the usage of the medics. From my perspective we are trying to discuss what is the situation right now and how can we improve it.

Us the civs are sharing our experiences and ideas for improvement and the medics respond with their experiences, tell us rules of limitation and enlighten us on matters we might not know of (the amount of complaints).

My goal for entering this debate is not to belittle or shame anyone; I would rather help every at best. How can we help the medics do what the would like to do in a efficient way (turning some of the negative feedback into positive feedback) and how can we help the civs get a better understanding of what is going on and how to make the interaction with the medic go more smoothly and with less spite (when people feel let down).

A good community is a dynamic community; constantly evolving, learning, improving, changing - well at least from my perspective. 

Probably because I am reaching the breaking point regarding topics like this one. I could write an essay voicing my opinions but what's the point, it's not going to change anything. I'll let this topic continue down it's path and eventually get locked.

 

[Mickeey]

By the way, slow response time?  This may be why.  Looks more like determination to me.

 

[Professor bobmarley]

What people seem to forget is the NHS are people who also want to play the game for their own enjoyment like everyone else who plays the game. The whole revival process is actually quite easy you press windows key and you start reviving and if it was just that without any role play I would certainly not log on to play as a medic as it would be very boring, so I revived someone and I spend 10 to 30 minutes role playing with someone then so be it. 

By the way, slow response time?  This may be why.  Looks more like determination to me.

And to add to what Mickeey said this isn't Battlefield where you die and a medic is instantly there to revive you, we have to make our ways over the whole map which most of the time there is only two NHS vehicles out at a time. Most medics drive the truck boxer which I get asked a lot by my former students who are now FA's why I pick the truck boxer despite having access to a SUV and the Orca, simple answer is that the ways you can use it for role play purposes are endless. Finally you should be grateful that we are not instantly there at the scene as we use that time travelling to you to think of possible role play scenarios we could do when we do revive you. 

 

[Mickeey]

@EvansChris I hope we've shown you our view of the situation, and I also hope that you see none of this in an agressive mannor, however in a much more learning style mannor, or maybe more-so informational.

 

[Neo]

I'm going to lock this now..

Medics are all about roleplay, your revival is a convenience to you and your gear, not a requirement by the server to compensate...

This isn't other servers where they run in, revive, and run off, hardly a word said... they need to treat each scenario realistically (to the best of their ability). if someone is revived and they can't feel their legs (in rp) it's not "oh.. okay... bye..". there's hospital trips, visits, etc. 

A duty of care!

If you lose your stuff, shame, go work for it again, and better yet, stay away from trouble.