Lower Gang Caps and enforce gang clothing to be worn during shootouts

[Zeus0x00]

gangs aren't scared of the cops

Why would we be?
In the situation you are talking about at the petrol station you were heavily outnumbered and there were a lot of guns pointed at you so we had 0 reason to be scared. 

 

[Nikolai]

as i stated in the other suggestion about lowering gang cap, i'm against it, don't see a need for it.
when it comes to them being forced to wear certain clothing, i'm gonna have to say no again, the only thing that does it make it a "easy" hunt for police, afterwards as you can just say "oh it was marabunta and grove tonight" instead of having to investigate it

 

 

[Steph]

I understand that in the past you took situations that didn't quite go as you'd hoped to heart and that at times it affected you so negatively that you had to walk away from the PC but I think, as the feedback of the community shows, you're quite alone on this one. 

It's not a fair suggestion if I am being quite honest, forcing gangs to wear their colours during fights doesn't really add to roleplay in many ways, such as making it so unreasonably easy to gather information for cops.

I don't intend to insult you but when you suggest these kind of things, is it in the heat of the moment because something happened you weren't quite happy with? Because if not, did you ever play as a criminal for a longer period of time? It sometimes helps to see both sides and get some insight and also actually feel and see how it is for the people that you are making these suggestions for.

Ofc that is just me assuming you never played as a Criminal for an extended period of time. If you did, that's my bad. 

Sorry if I sound rude, that is not my intention. I am just trying to understand why you would suggest something that, in my own opinion, would put other people so heavily under a disadvantage and dictate their Roleplay quite heavily. You said yourself that you don't enjoy playing as cop much anymore but do you think that the game will be more enjoyable for you by making it less enjoyable for others? 

 

[Paru]

I understand that in the past you took situations that didn't quite go as you'd hoped to heart and that at times it affected you so negatively that you had to walk away from the PC but I think, as the feedback of the community shows, you're quite alone on this one. 

It's not a fair suggestion if I am being quite honest, forcing gangs to wear their colours during fights doesn't really add to roleplay in many ways, such as making it so unreasonably easy to gather information for cops.

I don't intend to insult you but when you suggest these kind of things, is it in the heat of the moment because something happened you weren't quite happy with? Because if not, did you ever play as a criminal for a longer period of time? It sometimes helps to see both sides and get some insight and also actually feel and see how it is for the people that you are making these suggestions for.

Ofc that is just me assuming you never played as a Criminal for an extended period of time. If you did, that's my bad. 

Sorry if I sound rude, that is not my intention. I am just trying to understand why you would suggest something that, in my own opinion, would put other people so heavily under a disadvantage and dictate their Roleplay quite heavily. You said yourself that you don't enjoy playing as cop much anymore but do you think that the game will be more enjoyable for you by making it less enjoyable for others? 

I've had a crim/civ character for just under a year at this point, I can see both sides of it, I can also see a mass amount of toxicity from the gangs in massive situations like the aforementioned, the same applies to a situation occurred in Grapeseed previously involving 4-5 gangs in a large scale gunfight, the cops can see it as RDM and have previously reported it as such, i'm all for balance honestly, but where is the line drawn? Blacked out cars with people wearing all black clothing doing drivebys on cops 24/7 is ridiculous

 

[Steph]

I've had a crim/civ character for just under a year at this point, I can see both sides of it, I can also see a mass amount of toxicity from the gangs in massive situations like the aforementioned, the same applies to a situation occurred in Grapeseed previously involving 4-5 gangs in a large scale gunfight, the cops can see it as RDM and have previously reported it as such, i'm all for balance honestly, but where is the line drawn? Blacked out cars with people wearing all black clothing doing drivebys on cops 24/7 is ridiculous

I genuinely think that toxicity is an issue on both sides, if you are being a toxic person is not decided by being a criminal or a fed but merely by the fact if you're a dickhead. But I feel that maybe it's not quite as noticeable as a fed because realistically there isn't really a reason for feds to be toxic of eachother. I honestly can't tell because I never played much as a fed myself so I can't really comment. 

I understand what you mean by "where is the line drawn?" but as someone who played as a criminal himself you surely must see that us crims ask ourselves this question too.. I mean Feds know our house and car locations, they have drones, grenades, armoured vehicles and much more. Meanwhile us criminals have to work hard for the things we have and if we lose them it's even harder to get them back, especially when often we end up in prison for extended periods of time. 

But you know what? That's okay you win some, you lose some. I just think that whenever we get angry or frustrated with a game we should chill for a moment and remember that's all what it is, a game. 

 

[Paru]

I genuinely think that toxicity is an issue on both sides, if you are being a toxic person is not decided by being a criminal or a fed but merely by the fact if you're a dickhead. But I feel that maybe it's not quite as noticeable as a fed because realistically there isn't really a reason for feds to be toxic of eachother. I honestly can't tell because I never played much as a fed myself so I can't really comment. 

I understand what you mean by "where is the line drawn?" but as someone who played as a criminal himself you surely must see that us crims ask ourselves this question too.. I mean Feds know our house and car locations, they have drones, grenades, armoured vehicles and much more. Meanwhile us criminals have to work hard for the things we have and if we lose them it's even harder to get them back, especially when often we end up in prison for extended periods of time. 

But you know what? That's okay you win some, you lose some. I just think that whenever we get angry or frustrated with a game we should chill for a moment and remember that's all what it is, a game. 

I was completely fine with the prison situ tbh, it was fun and enjoyable despite the lack of Roleplay given to a few of us, the issue comes in when after that temporary alliance should've ended the cops then hours later get steam rolled by the same group of 20-30 people just because they want their friends out of prison, it's unrealistic imo and doesn't match closely to irl at all

 

[Zeus0x00]

the cops then hours later get steam rolled by the same group of 20-30 people just because they want their friends out of prison

So? You keep saying stuff without any justification for it. Why does it matter that you goy rolled later? We didn't just pull up and start shooting cops, we were taking hostages and only shot when shot at first.  If you hadn't started shooting at us then instead of a bunch of your officers getting downed we would've just taken the 3 hostages with no casualties. Instead you decided to just open fire on a heavily armed group while heavily outnumbered. Seems a bit like NVL but that's another issue for another day.

 

[DJ]

I'd be all for this if you didn't get fucked 2 days down the road anyway, no matter how many battles you win, you will always lose the war with the police. (Which isn't a bad thing)

Why make there job any easier to then have to lose hours/days/weeks worth of assets and time in jail, just think next time your laughing and putting someone in jail for the max sentence everytime, yeah your getting that W but your soon be complaining when there's no one to arrest anymore as no one is doing crime as no one can be bothered anymore.

Honestly seeing how much the mentally on the server has changed in the last year, from what makes a good situation to getting a W is really disappointing. That comes from both sides and something needs to change soon before it's either a wasteland server or it turns to a VR chat server as people don't want to do anything through fear of missing weeks of RP.

(My opinion and not of the staff team, obviously)

 

[Tokjat]

why would a gang make it easy for the police to start identifying then by what they are wearing when they hit the police this just seems to me that you want make it even easier for the police to get the win with out putting in the effort of doing a investigation as what your stating the gangs are better of handing them selfs in for a life sentence 

 

[Kate Anderson]

I think the police is heavily overpowered right now. I say that out of my perspective as CID command. I have not really played actively out on the streets the past 2 months. However I was following what is going on. I know how the server is from a criminal perspective, however I played crim almost 10-12months ago. Since then meta has changed. But the stuff to do has not. The cause of this suggestion is born out of a symptom from the current meta and the lack of content for criminals (infrastructural content). 

Perceptions are often heavily biased, because we see a partial image of what is happening. Therefore is imo a more thorough approach needed, than to limit the group's. With the visibilities of Gangs, I remember the Ballas Aztecas war last year, when it was hard to identify individual, since they were on foot and dressed completely the same. So me as Detective, I was struggling to pin point who is who (aztecas). I wasn't involved the past few days, so I am not possibly frustrated about the experience I could have had. 

Overall I can understand the frustration from police, getting shot If you panic. But I can understand the frustration from criminals, because what should they do, when police panics everyone and their mom turns up and the possible RP that would have followed is already destroyed. 

Eventually some changes like the one Anonymous Monkey suggested are in the works, hopefully it will bring some additions to the foundation of criminal life on the server.

 

[Ravenzzz]

Lowering the gang cap means you need to also implement a rule of max police units in one situation. You’re saying that it’s hard to handle a situation where 20 people shoot the police, however with the current mentality changing the cap will do nothing. I once saw 5 police cars chasing one singular taxi driver, probably because they ran a red light. 5 v 1, or possibly double or triple crewed officers meaning 10 v 1 or 15 v 1 max. Atm when anything happens any number of police officers can enter the situation, but it’s suggested that only 15 people in a gang can do anything at once ? That’s the max amount, what if there are people who are busy irl and are not in the server? Then it’s down to 10 people, 9/8/7, and police can just radio in “All units to X location”. 
 

Wearing colors on the server is a unique thing. Not many servers have colored based gangs that all revolve around colors. That’s why there’s a concept of “in/ out of colors”. That’s also true for “undercover cops” and CID where they blend in with the people and go “blacked out”. Being blacked out is for the purpose of being unidentifiable. You wear no colors/ colors different from your own to bit get spotted. Unfortunately there should be no rule that forces people to wear color, because of how the server works. Police can wear normal clothing, no one can identify them as police, and when something happens they pop on a cap that says police and radio in for additional units, the person committing the crime is now fucked. Even for gangs during a gang war, if you kill someone out of colors it is not RDM because at the end of the day you are X person role playing killing Y person, which is in line with server rules.

As I’ve said in a previous rules change post,  it really isn’t the rules that need changing. It’s the mentality of the community. If that stays the same, change the rules all you want. You’re dealing with the same people doing the same things. Nothing will change. 

 

[Snuffles]

Putting a limit on gangs and forcing them to wear gang clothing wouldn't help anything. With the current tools and equipment police have at their disposal, it's not impossible to get "revenge". 

Take a look at Vagos. They had actively been shooting at police, and some extend anything that moved and had a pulse, however, police eventually won the situation, since they ended up getting life in prison. 
Or, you could take a look at any gang who's shot at police. Police will eventually get "revenge" from said incident(s). 

Instead of seeing every gunfight you loose as a "something needs to change", then continue the roleplay and start investigating who was involved, and get the evidence needed to get them imprisoned, etc.  

 

[Paru]

Having read through the various comments (Including the obvious drama inciting attempts) I can see both sides of the argument, I do think implementing something that @DevilWalkrecently suggested may actually solve a lot of the issues that both sides have, this specific suggestion - 

 

[Robbie]

Having read through the various comments (Including the obvious drama inciting attempts) I can see both sides of the argument, I do think implementing something that @DevilWalkrecently suggested may actually solve a lot of the issues that both sides have, this specific suggestion - 

I massively disagree. You implement that you are limiting peoples experiences, people's roleplay etc. What about the other people in said group who would have to miss out because there is 7 of them instead of 6 for example. Personally I just think people need to learn how to take a loss, roleplay isn't all about winning and that is the problem at the moment people can't take a loss and they have to win situations so they provide crap, borderline RP which then escalates into more people going down that path. That is the current major issue in my opinion and that's what everyone needs to look at fixing. 

 

[SixtyTwoSixx]

Having read through the various comments (Including the obvious drama inciting attempts) I can see both sides of the argument, I do think implementing something that @DevilWalkrecently suggested may actually solve a lot of the issues that both sides have, this specific suggestion - 

Pissing against the wind here Tommy unfort Just gonna have to call in Multiple gangs everytime and cause a shit show for zero reason, gangs that have 25 members can also break into teams of 4 and 6 buts thats not RP apparently either so it is what it is, Just stay turning the server into WW3 everytime a situation happens good times

 

[Rouble]

What happened last night was great RP, I was there before anything went down when I was taken hostage. It was great, to say that there was little to no RP is disrespectful, I was RP'ed with very well with Mason and it was very good, even during the end when it all died down, there was still good RP happening. I don't think there was anything wrong with what happened last night. I've said this before and I'll say it again, I do not understand why police care so much about losing a situation, everything is provided for you (as for me on G6). Police need to give more chance for criminals to try and win a situation because they have so much more at stake, this is a game, let people have their fun and win sometimes.

 

[Ron]

"Lower gang caps to 15" No, Police don't even have a cap for how many can be on at a time 25 is a good number and it should honestly stay at that, police already have an advantage like free gear, firearms units etc. "enforce gangs to wear gang clothing during major shootouts" I somewhat agree with this as it is hard to know who to shoot in certain situations and can cause issues. You go on about 5-6 gangs allying but I think that numbers just made up and in your head as there is barely 6 gangs on the server.

 

[Archie]

We have implemented new changes regarding groups and rules.