Just A Few Suggestions

[crazycattxo]

Hey everyone! I posted a suggestion a while back, and after taking a short break, I’m back and wanted to share some of my thoughts again, plus a few new suggestions. I’ve definitely noticed some changes around the City, but honestly, not all of them have been for the better. The development updates have been awesome, no doubt, but there’s still this sense that things feel kind of divided when it comes to who gets what. Some groups or businesses seem to have more advantages than others. It’s also a little frustrating seeing so many people wanting to buy businesses around the city to bring more RP into the mix, especially buildings which aren't really opened or say a new business but getting told it’s not really an option. It feels like only one or two businesses get all the attention, while others don’t get the same opportunities or focus. And this extends to groups too. I know some might disagree, but everyone’s entitled to their opinion, right? I just wish the average person had more chances, and it wasn’t always the popular groups, individuals, or businesses that get the best of everything.

Here's some suggestions I'd love to see, to maybe try and stop this feeling of a divide.

More support for the average civilians
I feel there definitely needs to be more civ jobs, there's a total of about 4 jobs you can do. Perhaps a building job, or some interactive heists a few friends can do to pass the time. Of course with a cooldown. More support for character driven jobs, it's a roleplay server that relies on peer to peer interactions yet when people create peer to peer interactive jobs they get pushed back. I'm not talking about like "jobs" like bins, mechanic, delivery drivers I'm thinking more like support for opening businesses. It feels like we all get told no, because the highlight wants to be kept on certain current businesses. I wish we could all be given the same opportunities.

Gangs
In my opinion groups/gangs/factions shouldn't be able to own more than 1 business per gang to give others a chance. {Yes, of course if they've been around a very long time it may be a bit different, as long as it is fair which at the moment in some cases it doesnt feel so } I also feel and I'm only using this as an example, every gang, group, faction, family should be limited to the same amount of things. Including compounds etc. I'm completely aware of the reasoning behind the Firm and the Lost, but it does feel like it's very favourited in some aspects and a lot of other groups, whether upcoming or currently around don't get as many opportunities. Theres a huge gap between whitelisted gangs/businesses then when people try to push to close that gap it gets denied. There's plenty of opportunities to open "roleplay" jobs with very little input from areas. This is things such as simple jobs like road repairs, dock work transportation, construction work but we are given no support to do these things. You either join the server to become police/nhs or gang. There's no support for people who just want to roleplay their own work. Or if there is we have to really prove, whereas if certain numbers want something it's put in without much hesitation.

I'm worried the City is just one that is very favourite orientated. It's upsetting because so many people have so many amazing ideas, and avenues they wish to explore in RP, but again. If they're not part of a well known business or group, or just individual in general it feels its never wanted or always denied. I just wish we could see more inclusivity, thats all.

 

[Bmav]

I agree, but this isn't a generalisation as such. This isn't legal members are better than gang members. I'm with you, I've seen some scuffed interactions with legal members but I've also seen scuffed interactions with gang members. This is about people who WANT to go to the legal route and earn money and being turned away the opportunity because of "competition" or just not getting the opportunity because a gang/faction with a near infinite resource of money can outbit absolutely anyone.

I mean i don't know how COC operate in terms of giving bussiness's nowdays but if its about the money then i agree with you owning a bussiness nowdays shouldn't be about the money in terms of choosing the next person to own it.

 

[MartinShipman11]

This is a different issue entirely, the server has never had a wipe so its normal things keep going up.

Yes, but that is STILL an issue. Small businesses suffer, because of that issue. It doesnt require a wipe to fix, it requires a fix of the fundamental structure of how the server and economy works.

The rangers own several businesses - at least one of which they were sold by someone in a faction for a lot less than it was worth, that's fact.

Yes, after we spent years pushing to have those things and were turned away because we were stepping on "other factions toes"

@Bmav is right, the gangs aren't the problem

I also don't hugely disagree with this, I'm not saying eradicate the gangs they shouldn't exist. Lets take The Lost right, they are primarily the ones who run guns into the city am I right? Why should it JUST be the lost who gets those privileges, think of the RP potential if ANOTHER gang is allowed to do that? My arguments of "favoured businesses" aren't exclusive to legal jobs, gangs can also benefit from it.

 

[JackJohnson]

Why should it JUST be the lost who gets those privileges

Simple answer, it’s isn’t.

 

[MartinShipman11]

Simple answer, it’s isn’t.

Oh sorry, you are right its The Lost and the server owned faction right? Then doesn't that prove my point of only "favoured" factions are allowed certain privileges?

 

[crazycattxo]

Simple answer, it’s isn’t.

I've been told ONLY the lost are allowed to do the gun deals and such, I agree it's to ensure the whole thing regarding it isn't mis-used and such, but why only the lost? I'm not arguing, i'm asking why it is that way?

 

[Donny]

Oh sorry, you are right its The Lost and the server owned faction right?

please stop metagaming

 

[JackJohnson]

I've been told ONLY the lost are allowed to do the gun deals and such, I agree it's to ensure the whole thing regarding it isn't mis-used and such, but why only the lost? I'm not arguing, i'm asking why it is that way?

You are wrong.

This isn't a topic about the Lost, and this isn't the place for that discussion, but your information is simply wrong.

 

[Astrid Belski]

This is true, there is a gap between gangs, factions and other players. The part you are missing is that those groups have also spent 3-4 years in most cases building that and have put the effort in to own the stuff they own. 1 group per gang is very unfair, gangs have up to 25 members, you want 1 business between them, but solo players to also be able to own one, theres no logic to it.

Yes, gangs and factions typically have more than solo players, but those groups have also put in years of effort and work to get to where they are, and in most cases deserve it, it's that simple. It's not favoured towards them, they've just been here longer, have done more work for it, have more connections in RP and are better suited to owning them. There is A LOT of businesses that are owned by solo players, players that deserve them and fair enough to them for it, but that doesn't mean the groups that have spent years building towards what they have now don't deserve it.

The player amount matters as well within those groups - the groups, factions, gangs etc... don't consist of one player, its up to 25 people (more for factions) you need to consider, why would they only be allowed to own one business?

Whilst I appreciate your side of the coin I've also lived through and played mine and speak from what we've experienced.

When we started the rangers we had absolutely nothing and relied fully on RP, no props no dev work nothing. And we used to do so for hours and hours. A lot of people either weren't here or can't remember when the rangers weren't an actual faction and only know them as what they are now.
We were told we weren't allowed to own a business when we were command because we had the faction now. This has quite clearly changed but the argument then was it wasn't fair for us to own one. And we accepted that because in a way - that argument made sense. Literally as soon as we left suddenly, this faction now owns 3 that I know of in RP.

One business can have multiple employees, do all 25 members need to own a business? Why can't they collectively own a business and all run it? Sure they pay is probably shocking but they have other means to make a LOT of money, there's no way that a 24/7 store would be a gangs sole income. And why can't civs own a business if they can prove in a business plan that outlines how many employees they have ready to go? Full civs who want to own a business would be more inclined to put their everything into their business and roleplay them. I can't talk on every civs behalf only my own and how me and my group would play and the other ordinary civs that we interact and spend time with.

Regarding foot traffic - this is why you need employees - So you can still RP when it's quiet between yourselves and be preset for when that traffic comes through. Not everyone's cup of tea I agree, but not everyone wants to play cops and robbers while making passive income from people fueling their cars. The easiest way to filter through who will run a business as a business in full RP terms is to comb over business proposals imo.

The ratio is completely off, no matter which side of the fence you sit and it would be silly to suggest otherwise. The original point of this post was that normal everyday civs who want to RP should have more opportunities and more quality of life added for them so that they aren't subjected to the mindless tedious repetitiveness of being forced to grind a job that has little to no RP interaction just so they can pay their rent and buy a smoothie while other people can go to prison and make insane money from criminal activities while also making money through what should be a legally owned business.

Just my two cents as someone who's seen it for the last 4/5 years and played on both sides of the suggestion.

 

[crazycattxo]

please stop metagaming

What? We're discussing in a forum? Nobody's using this information in City. It's discussing things.

 

[JackJohnson]

Oh sorry, you are right its The Lost and the server owned faction right?

Still wrong, not the place for it and I'm not going to tell you on the forums, but the information you have is incorrect.

 

[crazycattxo]

And as my point stands, never any point suggesting anything. We always get denied or argued against. End of discussion.

 

[MartinShipman11]

Still wrong, not the place for it and I'm not going to tell you on the forums, but the information you have is incorrect.

So a suggestion on how to improve roleplay for everyone involved on a "suggestions" thread, isn't the right place for it?

 

[JackJohnson]

When we started the rangers we had absolutely nothing and relied fully on RP, no props no dev work nothing. And we used to do so for hours and hours. A lot of people either weren't here or can't remember when the rangers weren't an actual faction and only know them as what they are now.
We were told we weren't allowed to own a business when we were command because we had the faction now. This has quite clearly changed but the argument then was it wasn't fair for us to own one. And we accepted that because in a way - that argument made sense. Literally as soon as we left suddenly, this faction now owns 3 that I know of in RP.

Surely that's a good thing though? That the faction has progressed, and the servers standpoint has also, allowing them to follow through with the vision you had for it?

One business can have multiple employees, do all 25 members need to own a business? Why can't they collectively own a business and all run it? Sure they pay is probably shocking but they have other means to make a LOT of money, there's no way that a 24/7 store would be a gangs sole income. And why can't civs own a business if they can prove in a business plan that outlines how many employees they have ready to go? Full civs who want to own a business would be more inclined to put their everything into their business and roleplay them. I can't talk on every civs behalf only my own and how me and my group would play and the other ordinary civs that we interact and spend time with.

Regarding foot traffic - this is why you need employees - So you can still RP when it's quiet between yourselves and be preset for when that traffic comes through. Not everyone's cup of tea I agree, but not everyone wants to play cops and robbers while making passive income from people fueling their cars. The easiest way to filter through who will run a business as a business in full RP terms is to comb over business proposals imo.

The ratio is completely off, no matter which side of the fence you sit and it would be silly to suggest otherwise. The original point of this post was that normal everyday civs who want to RP should have more opportunities and more quality of life added for them so that they aren't subjected to the mindless tedious repetitiveness of being forced to grind a job that has little to no RP interaction just so they can pay their rent and buy a smoothie while other people can go to prison and make insane money from criminal activities while also making money through what should be a legally owned business.

Just my two cents as someone who's seen it for the last 4/5 years and played on both sides of the suggestion.

So I don't actually disagree with some of your points - however I don't think it's fair to restrict a group to owning one single business. Not every member needs to own one, and that isn't the case currently anyway - but when you've got 25 members, why should they all need to pursue one single idea or business? When it comes to gangs, I don't think there is any than own more than 3 businesses, that spread between 25 members I just don't personally think is unreasonable.
However, I do believe civs should own businesses as well - I've been trying to convince @Joe Scrub to buy a business for a long time, I even offered him the money for it (Not that he needs it ahaha). Absolutely, civilians should own businesses, but it shouldn't only be them. That's my opinion on it, if someone is capable of running a business then they should be able to.

 

[JackJohnson]

So a suggestion on how to improve roleplay for everyone involved on a "suggestions" thread, isn't the right place for it?

No sorry that's not what I meant, I meant this isn't the place to be sharing information that is 'secret' to a large section of the playerbase. Just doesn't serve any purpose spilling it here, that's all.

And as my point stands, never any point suggesting anything. We always get denied or argued against. End of discussion.

People are just sharing opposing points of view. That's why people are able to comment on suggestions surely?

 

[Stavik]

Time to be the unpopular guy

Yes, we are in need of more jobs. This brings diversity.
I am currently involved in the gangs/drug scene as they had been waiting for quite abit longer.

But yes more jobs are a thing. But do not forget what you can already do. Mechanic work can lead you to a mechanic place. Taxiing/Trucking can lead you to logistics work and more.
Mining and smelting, fishing and fishing for resturant leading to cooking. Harvesting of materials.

All of these can be a solid foundation IF you want to start a biz. I know its rich coming from the guy witha fucking warehouse.. but those who know my character well. I prefer the player over the NPC.
#FuckVendingMachines

@crazycattxo bringing up a discussion should never be an issue, but we have to remember we all have different ways of thinking and opinions. This is why discussing them makes a greater product in the end.
Please continue with this!

When it comes to the CoC aspect. What i want you guys to also think about is the development of a character, not the game. The character.

This person can be as legal as legal can be can be faced with some RP that challenges this stort and starts and downward spiral. Thats roleplay. The development of the character can make things look like one thing, but started completely different.

There are a bunch of stuff you guys dont know, but we do try and be fair in the CoC. But you only ever hear about it when we have to be unfair, cause people complain. What i can say, when CoC sells a biz, we prefer the common man/woman. But the hole to get accepted is small. So the more they put into it, the more we smile and find it a pleasure to give away.


If you want more direct answers to a concern, tag me in a reply here and il respond directly from how we advise CoC and more.

 

[crazycattxo]

No sorry that's not what I meant, I meant this isn't the place to be sharing information that is 'secret' to a large section of the playerbase. Just doesn't serve any purpose spilling it here, that's all.


People are just sharing opposing points of view. That's why people are able to comment on suggestions surely?

It feels though that certain people, if its ANYTHING that is arguing against their faction, or anything from well known players or anything. Always argue against. It is very unfair, and feels only certain people get listened to. It's been that way for ages.

 

[MartinShipman11]

No sorry that's not what I meant, I meant this isn't the place to be sharing information that is 'secret' to a large section of the playerbase. Just doesn't serve any purpose spilling it here, that's all.


People are just sharing opposing points of view. That's why people are able to comment on suggestions surely?

If a little old scrub who's been away from the server knows that information it isnt that secret. I think it does serve it's purpose here, as it highlights my point of favoured factions get the better privilages. But I want to reaffirm by saying I'm not saying give them to everyone, I'm just saying possibilites SHOULD be open to everyone to be considered instead of being shut down immedietly because it threatens other factions businesses. Should competition and roleplay be discouraged?

 

[Stavik]

If a little old scrub who's been away from the server knows that information it isnt that secret.

No point shoutinf it from the mountain tops cause it ruins the RP and how certain things are approached.

 

[Larry Bones]

People who put time and good roleplay into a start up business will eventually get what they deserve when the time comes, it has been seen many times before but more often than not start up businesses fall flat on their face when the people operating them get bored and don't want to do the roleplay anymore. The progression comes in drips and drabs with things like Tweedle Verification, A livery, clothing then ultimately your own MLO but people don't want to stick to it long enough to reap these rewards

As for "illegal" chars owning businesses from what I understood if they was out caught getting into shootouts and such CoC would take the business off them

 

[JackJohnson]

It feels though that certain people, if its ANYTHING that is arguing against their faction, or anything from well known players or anything. Always argue against. It is very unfair, and feels only certain people get listened to. It's been that way for ages.

I guess that's sort of true, but it's worth remember the people that will defend it (like me) are also the people that have spent a long time building and working on what groups, gangs and factions have and if we believe it's been doing correctly then yeah of course we are going to give our point of view on it.
You aren't exactly arguing against their faction or group, you are giving an opinion that's different to theirs, so they will give they opinion back, that's all it is.