Getting Phone Records - Drones Ect, ect.

[SixtyTwoSixx]

Am I still the only one that thinks getting deleted messages that you sent a month prior is not a bit too strong for cops and stuff to have with the state the server is in, we literally cant hide anything from cops at all as criminals, I know people are gonna say "Well cops can do that in real life" yea that's true but there is also a thing called burner phones, Now they have drones a long with NPAS and NPAS 99 and an arsenal of weapons and literally cars that literally don't go under 120mph, I know the community is screaming for Banks and House robbery's, I literally don't want it for the fact is your always gonna be at a disadvantage and literally need to be Lewis Hamilton to outrun the police and everyone is afraid to use there own vehicle because of scrappage. now I'm not shitting on anyone or any dev's or staff members cause obviously everything takes time especially when you do it for free, but as criminals There is not much we can as criminal RP, Cant rob cops Guns Break, Cant Rob normal people cause you will get 720 month sentence, cant RP Life invader cause CT's with breach with Mk2's and give you 720 month sentence and ruin your evening for 2-3 hours, most of us not me cause I have loads of time I'm on hands come home from work after a long day and cant do some criminal stuff for the fact they might end up in jail for 3 hours and only be on the server for 20 minutes, any OCG's do anything There open to investigation and getting Wiped for any petty crimes they commit, Things need to change for criminals as whole Yea they need to RP better, but so does cops, Driving into gang turfs blasting music from there mic and annoying them is also a rule break and goes under G3.3 Hot Mic, But no one ever says anything. This is just my opinion and might not make a difference but better saying something than nothing. As I said nothing towards anyone just a humble opinion.

 

[William Antrim]

I think you have made a valid point but its a little bit generalised - do you have any specific examples of individual cases and can you provide any evidence of how youve tried to address the issue? 

I dont disagree with what you're saying but the root cause of the problem isnt necessarily sweeping wholesale changes to the system. Usually it can be dealt with by dealing with the individual at the time. If one person (be it police/criminal/other) is being a dick then you can usually sort it out with them I find. The only way to tackle the issue is to educate the individuals. I had an issue with a probationary constable the other day. He wanted to give me a maximum sentence/fine almost in the cells for having a knife in my pocket. He was trying to work out a way logically in his head about how to do it i think. I had to explain that sentencing guidelines are there for guidance, not a target to hit. When i calmly and reasonably explained the issue to him he ended up letting me go without a fine or a custodial sentence, purely because I was being reasonable. 

If you kick off at someone about something, their natural reaction is to be stubborn and go out of their way to fuck you over. If that person is a cop they have much more that they can do to fuck you over, I am certain you are aware of this. Be mindful of that. I am not saying kiss anyones arse but be aware of the consequences of your actions. From a judicial point of view yes you are right the police DO have a lot of powers, but there is also another body which sits behind them (not above) making sure their decisions are airtight. Any scrappage/seizure/etc is done with a huge threshold of evidence. These decisions are not taken lightly and whilst the majority do not see the light of day I can assure you that the integrity of the judicial system is upheld at all times. If these things happen there is a very good reason for it. 

Sentencing guidelines and guidance to individual officers is something that POLCOM needs to sort out in all honesty and isnt something I can or will comment on. Suffice to say I have managed to talk my way out of a few sentences just by being polite and reasonable even though I am guilty as hell. 

W

 

[Display]

do you have any specific examples of individual cases and can you provide any evidence of how youve tried to address the issue?

Recently I've got caught be corrupt on one of my characters which would be the cop one, during me being corrupt I've always deleted all calls and messages even if they didn't have anything related to corruption just to be safe, currently I'm suspended from the police and I've got told they had access to my messages from January first 2022 to 2 weeks ago or somewhere there. I'm not mad or bitching about it and I'm rp'ing my character as best as I can till my court case happens and when I become available. It was really shitty to see me being busted and don't get me wrong I didn't know how to be corrupt so I fucked myself over, but then again there wasn't burner phones or anything that couldn't be traced from Police or POLCOM.

 

[William Antrim]

Recently I've got caught be corrupt on one of my characters which would be the cop one, during me being corrupt I've always deleted all calls and messages even if they didn't have anything related to corruption just to be safe, currently I'm suspended from the police and I've got told they had access to my messages from January first 2022 to 2 weeks ago or somewhere there. I'm not mad or bitching about it and I'm rp'ing my character as best as I can till my court case happens and when I become available. It was really shitty to see me being busted and don't get me wrong I didn't know how to be corrupt so I fucked myself over, but then again there wasn't burner phones or anything that couldn't be traced from Police or POLCOM.

I understand but what would happen if they COULDNT access your records etc? If you deleted everything and it was gone forever how would the lawful officers be able to catch you in the act? You could use innumerable measures to stay hidden (logging off for example or just generally stonewalling any attempt to prove you did anything). There has to be a paper trail of some sort to allow the other players in the city to also have their RP with you. If you chose to be corrupt, albeit in your case badly, then you obviously have accepted there will be a "penalty" to your character. At the end of the day its meant to be fun for all sides so if its not fun then it can be changed and if it is fun then all good. 

When records get seized there is an intensely strict process to follow to ensure that there is no corruption/metagaming/shit show with the data. It is a HUGELY responsible position to be in, personally i steer clear of it so as not to influence the course of RP as its a lot of responsibility on the individual who does it and if it goes wrong it has potentially disastrous consequences. Luckily it hasnt ever happened yet due to the quality controls in place and so it is the fairest system possible, with multiple checks and balances to prevent any issues. 

Nevertheless I can give you my word that your data is as safe as it can be. 

 

[MickMacF]

I understand but what would happen if they COULDNT access your records etc? If you deleted everything and it was gone forever how would the lawful officers be able to catch you in the act?

So are you saying burner phones shouldn’t be a thing because it would be too hard to catch you?
Police have so many resources and assets compared to civs and there are many ways they could catch you even with a burner phone just a little extra work such as surveillance, spying, following the corrupt officer in that case above or even using the new police drone to follow people about lol. 
burner phones is a great idea gives a little extra for criminals to use and hardly makes it unrealistic. Still plenty of ways to catch people out

 

[Bmav]

Will be honest i don't really mind the phone messages because you can avoid them by just calling the person and its also a bit stupid people talking about crime on the messages but as for the drone thats a bit over the top if you ask me.

I also kinda disagree with the life invader fingerprints because reallisticly you would be wearing gloves.

Also getting an entire gang S47 for 2 members driving suspeciously looks like fun

 

[Kate Anderson]

I understand the issue completely, since THIS IS the balance of the server. And right now police is in their possibilities OP. Some points you have mentioned however need to be adressed

give you 720 month sentence

The sentence system seems a bit as a "I show you my big dick" messure, because it is hard to control how every single sentence is given and the balance relies on the person that plays the police character to not decide on circumstancial emotions. A consequence would be to audit reports and sentences given, which is a huge amount of work, but if this is a systemic problem, it should be looked into. 

Now they have drones

Drones are very powerful and we have them under restriction. They are only for CID and need a CID SGT+ auth to do so. I myself don't want to have the use of drones on a normal basis because they are too OP for my liking to have them casually deployed. 

thinks getting deleted messages that you sent a month prior is not a bit too strong for cops and stuff to have with the state the server is in

It is very strong yes, but as William stated, the opposite would be also very strong. Burner phones would be a possibility but on the other hand the availability is critical, then no one would use they normal phones anymore and we could just leave it here. To avoid incriminating messages, start calling each other, talk over radio, meet in person, same as IRL. The less you get seen in the public doing criminal stuff, the more likely you will be left alone. 

CID has developed a lot since I joined it last year. I would say it is as powerful in the capabilities as never before. But we are not many, there are maybe 5-6 active Detectives against hundreds of organised crime. 

cant RP Life invader

I'm with you on that, my opinion is there should always be the possibility to escape and have a chase, this is a game after all and chase is one of the most fun experiences. 

There is not much we can as criminal RP, Cant rob cops Guns Break,

I hear ya, I stopped playing criminal because of several reasons, one of them was the lack of content and the repetition of daily stuff you do. I would love to see more infrastructure for criminals, especially robbing properties/banks/shops plus money laundry / pawn shop mechanic. 

 

[Paru]

cant RP Life invader

In regards to this point, I must stress that IF the RP is good enough and some sort of fake document was shown to me via Google Docs then i'd be more than happy to leave the scene of Lifeinvader and let them carry on as normal, I have done this with Police before when making Hemp Fibres at the location, I show the Cops my fake rental agreement with the building owner give them some good RP and chit chat whilst I sit there with 2kg's+ of weed in my pocket making Hemp and yelling at the fake local workers  - It's not the cops fault that the RP is piss poor when it comes to situations like that, yes Police RP as of recent has been shit, I can 1000% agree, but others can't present shit RP as well, if they want better RP they need to lead by example, that's the only way forward imo

(Attached my fake rental agreement so you can understand the detail of it)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XherbsF8EterJjIaaBASttCMkbRrrHNqbzfoDIGVOIw/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Bmav]

In regards to this point, I must stress that IF the RP is good enough and some sort of fake document was shown to me via Google Docs then i'd be more than happy to leave the scene of Lifeinvader and let them carry on as normal, I have done this with Police before when making Hemp Fibres at the location, I show the Cops my fake rental agreement with the building owner give them some good RP and chit chat whilst I sit there with 2kg's+ of weed in my pocket making Hemp and yelling at the fake local workers  - It's not the cops fault that the RP is piss poor when it comes to situations like that, yes Police RP as of recent has been shit, I can 1000% agree, but others can't present shit RP as well, if they want better RP they need to lead by example, that's the only way forward imo

(Attached my fake rental agreement so you can understand the detail of it)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XherbsF8EterJjIaaBASttCMkbRrrHNqbzfoDIGVOIw/edit?usp=sharing

Everything that involves a hostage is considered "Shit RP" to every other cop Tommy fair enough with this Google Docs thing but I can tell you from experience that not even a google docs with documentation is gonna help you because already tried in the past at a bank and it still ended in a shootout regardless and when people start doing this "Google Docs meta" you are gonna see cops breaching because they are bored that crims are giving them the same RP this is always how it goes. There is only so many ways you can roleplay robbing something in a different way at the end it will all become dull to the average cop and they will just CBA and breach. (Not trying to put every cop in the same bag feel it unfair for others that actually RP really well and don't get noticed because of the bad apples same as crims)

 

[Paru]

Everything that involves a hostage is considered "Shit RP" to every other cop Tommy fair enough with this Google Docs thing but I can tell you from experience that not even a google docs with documentation is gonna help you because already tried in the past at a bank and it still ended in a shootout regardless and when people start doing this "Google Docs meta" you are gonna see cops breaching because they are bored that crims are giving them the same RP this is always how it goes. There is only so many ways you can roleplay robbing something in a different way at the end it will all become dull to the average cop and they will just CBA and breach. (Not trying to put every cop in the same bag feel it unfair for others that actually RP really well and don't get noticed because of the bad apples same as crims)

I shall echo something that was said to me previously by a staff member, if people are providing shit or low quality RP then report them, the staff team do take note on stuff like that, and if standards slip to the point the staff team get involved then Pol Com will soon be on everyone's ass about upping the quality of their RP or risk getting punished for it

 

[Bmav]

I shall echo something that was said to me previously by a staff member, if people are providing shit or low quality RP then report them, the staff team do take note on stuff like that, and if standards slip to the point the staff team get involved then Pol Com will soon be on everyone's ass about upping the quality of their RP or risk getting punished for it

I will be honest, I wish this was the case, but unfortunately even certain staff members are involved in this case and considering how the last court case went against a certain police member that ended up in prison and somehow managed to keep the job i wouldn't be surprised at anything anymore.

 

[Paru]

I will be honest, I wish this was the case, but unfortunately even certain staff members are involved in this case and considering how the last court case went against a certain police member that ended up in prison and somehow managed to keep the job i wouldn't be surprised at anything anymore.

That court case had some amazing RP in it, you can't deny that, and Pol Command made the decision to let PS Sharpe keep her job, that's all IC stuff tho, what i'm talking about is shit RP not RP that's ended awkwardly 

 

[George Harris]

I also kinda disagree with the life invader fingerprints because reallisticly you would be wearing gloves.

Wear gloves then...

 

[Custard Cream *left*]

Seems to me a change is happening and a good one at that. Coming from somehow who plays heavily as the police and as a criminal the past few months have been hell. Police and gangs giving barebones RP and non stop gunfights with also minimal RP. Destroying what I think the core of RPUK actually is a public HIGH quality roleplay server that was simply a step above the rest which I still believe is mostly true. Not one single person can argue from the police or a criminal/gang perspective that no one had an fear in the police. We were getting wiped in gunfights, laughed at when sentencing OCG members and letting the city run havoc. If you threatened to arrest someone you would have 10 hellions showing up 20 seconds later armed like a Mexican cartel and mowing you down.

Now dont get me wrong this still happens just not in the biggest capacity it was a few months ago. Recently from what ive seen a new "Fear" has been instilled which is needed. The police are a government entity that should have control over the city but lost it grip for a while. With more raids on OCG's such as the lost and all the police units working together in harmony for a change is making us strong again. CID have been working overdrive and theirs and firearms work combined with RPU Road crime have been decimating the gangs and making them think twice before committing something major because now everyone knows, you make to big a ripple and you will have your house surveyed then raided if deemed necessary, Your storage lockers will be found and all your weapons will be seized. RPU will be scrapping your best cars and people committing really heinous acts will be getting extended sentences.

Now all these things dont happen in hours or even overnight. The amount of effort that is put into for example a house raid warrant or an operational plan is mind blowing and isn't done lightly. But this sort of "Overpoweredness" Is kind of what is needed.

Im not saying all these things are great and there is still some much needed reviews and changes needed to take place but what yourself and alot of gangs are starting to realise is that the police should have control and that's what's starting to happen and personally I think its at a good place and without to much need to change, this is coming from someone who also plays crim and gets annoyed at the police.

I do agree however the lack of stuff to actually do that isnt already knocked down to a tee on how police operate like life invader and other stuff needs to change. I think alot of officers have just had enough being the little guy in the city and are now happy to actually get their control back. All that needs to be done is the level of rp from both sides needs upping. Like back when the gang update was first introduced. Back then no one was flashing guns around willy nilly and they wouldnt mess with the police like they were some discount asda security guards.

 

[SixtyTwoSixx]

I didn't mean any toxicity towards anyone remember keep it civil we are all adults. Me as a criminal use cars without license plates, cover my face and they minute they hear my voice run my invisible plate they said Frank LeTank Lost MC, even though I'm covered from head to toe , its just things like that, as for sentences there ridiculous But hey it is what it is That's down to other people, Change the prison System and make people stay away to serve time and change all the times. Bring in Better training for the police Better SOP's Staying Professional at all times, My character Jonny was very professional at the start I think anyone that knew him would say the same, but after months and months it gets disheartening when there's 20 other officers just taking the piss constantly but hey it is what it is, as i said from the start nothing towards anyone just voicing my opinion. I have great time for everyone on the server and out of the server. 

Edit: And yes its not all the police fault they do there best to police the server at most times and i seen it first hand, ConnorGreatt, Raymond, Barry, they all do a good job at what there giving, RP from Crim's dog water also at the best of times and really dont wanna be caught and will do anything included nearly banned because they have a gun on them.

 

[Custard Cream *left*]

I didn't mean any toxicity towards anyone remember keep it civil we are all adults. Me as a criminal use cars without license plates, cover my face and they minute they hear my voice run my invisible plate they said Frank LeTank Lost MC, even though I'm covered from head to toe , its just things like that, as for sentences there ridiculous But hey it is what it is That's down to other people, Change the prison System and make people stay away to serve time and change all the times. Bring in Better training for the police Better SOP's Staying Professional at all times, My character Jonny was very professional at the start I think anyone that knew him would say the same, but after months and months it gets disheartening when there's 20 other officers just taking the piss constantly but hey it is what it is, as i said from the start nothing towards anyone just voicing my opinion. I have great time for everyone on the server and out of the server. 

Edit: And yes its not all the police fault they do there best to police the server at most times and i seen it first hand, ConnorGreatt, Raymond, Barry, they all do a good job at what there giving, RP from Crim's dog water also at the best of times and really dont wanna be caught and will do anything included nearly banned because they have a gun on them.

Ill agree heavily on the fact there is alot of police in the server that lack professionalism. Driving round with soundboards on, Tasering each other in front of civs and giving people a shite attitude. This has become the norm for more seasoned officers that have been around a while and lost their passion for fun and realistic policing. I get its a game but if your gonna play such a powerful role on the server at least give the common decency of playing it properly so other people actually see you as a police officer.

And im not sure but im pretty sure the identification of yourself by your voice isn't grounds for arrest or identification and should be bringing that up in game through the proper channels. 

My biggest pet hate is that rules and procedures are not followed by alot of senior officers anymore. All that seems to happen is people get their SGT stripes and think they can do what they like. I.E Breaching Avant Guard. Not actually being on the TS radio. Tasering and punching fellow officers. But if these things are done by anyone else they get a warning point and a "Telling off".  As much more powerful the police has become to the point I feel like I have the power of a real police officer, to many people are not doing it correctly and just being another low RP, shite attitude giving gang with free guns.

 

[Aiden Brassard]

In regards to this point, I must stress that IF the RP is good enough and some sort of fake document was shown to me via Google Docs then i'd be more than happy to leave the scene of Lifeinvader and let them carry on as normal, I have done this with Police before when making Hemp Fibres at the location, I show the Cops my fake rental agreement with the building owner give them some good RP and chit chat whilst I sit there with 2kg's+ of weed in my pocket making Hemp and yelling at the fake local workers  - It's not the cops fault that the RP is piss poor when it comes to situations like that, yes Police RP as of recent has been shit, I can 1000% agree, but others can't present shit RP as well, if they want better RP they need to lead by example, that's the only way forward imo

(Attached my fake rental agreement so you can understand the detail of it)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XherbsF8EterJjIaaBASttCMkbRrrHNqbzfoDIGVOIw/edit?usp=sharing

This ^, extremely valid point. I'm not exactly sure if it was you Tommy but I remember forging a document to allow us entry to the big bank offices for 'renovation'. To which the police ended up leaving us to our own to make our way in. If the roleplay is good enough with situations like lifeinvader and big bank, and depending on who the officer is of course then the RP can go very well.

Burner phones would be a cool thing to have, but would not do much in terms of securing yourself, all it would take would be a little extra time to figure it out.

I didn't mean any toxicity towards anyone remember keep it civil we are all adults. Me as a criminal use cars without license plates, cover my face and they minute they hear my voice run my invisible plate they said Frank LeTank Lost MC, even though I'm covered from head to toe , its just things like that, as for sentences there ridiculous But hey it is what it is That's down to other people, Change the prison System and make people stay away to serve time and change all the times. Bring in Better training for the police Better SOP's Staying Professional at all times, My character Jonny was very professional at the start I think anyone that knew him would say the same, but after months and months it gets disheartening when there's 20 other officers just taking the piss constantly but hey it is what it is, as i said from the start nothing towards anyone just voicing my opinion. I have great time for everyone on the server and out of the server. 

Edit: And yes its not all the police fault they do there best to police the server at most times and i seen it first hand, ConnorGreatt, Raymond, Barry, they all do a good job at what there giving, RP from Crim's dog water also at the best of times and really dont wanna be caught and will do anything included nearly banned because they have a gun on them.

The sentence part is quite valid I think personally, although my character is quite criminally based (although I have fully stopped and gone legal) I was told if I had drugs on me or was caught selling, it would be instant 1440 months, I have no issue with it, it just seems quite harsh to be given that when that was also the same charge I was given for shooting someone in the head, and fleeing for 10mins.

One major change I think needs to happen like Frank said is roleplay on the crim side too, it seems that the forum posts are very based around police RP, where crims (not everyone of course) will bring across some terrible RP, then an officer do something questionable or not the best (again, not everyone) and then the whining / complaints come in, of course ideally everyone should be trying to bring across roleplay that is fun for everyone, but in order for it to truly work it needs to be a collective act.

 

[Paru]

This ^, extremely valid point. I'm not exactly sure if it was you Tommy but I remember forging a document to allow us entry to the big bank offices for 'renovation'. To which the police ended up leaving us to our own to make our way in. If the roleplay is good enough with situations like lifeinvader and big bank, and depending on who the officer is of course then the RP can go very well.

This was indeed my old cop character Tommy Anderson, the "builders" provided us documentation from Pacific Bank LTD and due to how authentic it looked we left the builders alone to do their thing and only questioned them about their work

 

[iSky0]

Wear gloves then...

As criminals you cant put gloves on or remove them, unless it has changed since i last checked, only if clocked on as police

If gloves are put on from a clothing store, does it not leave fingerprint? if so then i think there should be a way like the police to remove gloves as there is to remove mask/hat etc (unless it changed since i last checked)

Me as a criminal use cars without license plates, cover my face and they minute they hear my voice run my invisible plate they said Frank LeTank Lost MC, even though I'm covered from head to toe , its just things like that

If there was more judges around and more solicitors around it would be fun to have the ability to do a bench trial where you can say that was not you, and the courts i believe will believe you as there has to be a license plate or means of identification other than voice, however i dont know about UK bench trials or if they are a thing. As it stands you would need to put up with an officer claiming that it is you and appeal, which is too much work imo yes but thats a way to stop police from identifying how they want, and make them work more on identifying better.