Gang Revamp

[Liam]

I'll split these into sections and detail which I'd reckon would be good for the balance and immersion of the server.

1. Gang Recruitment

Civilians on the server shouldn't be purely recruited into a gang based on their graft skills, fragging skills and or how much money they have. This is a roleplay server, the gangs should be meeting with potential candidates to join their gang, vetting them, making sure that they aren't an idiot fresh out of the Caravan at Sandy Shores.

Gangs should be recruiting based on their RP ability, NOTHING ELSE.

1b. RP Ability

As I said above, gangs should recruit people based on their RP Ability nothing else. I'm sure majority of us are sick to death of the people who have been here in the past and still currently are for gunfights with minimal RP. Implementing a server rule that circumvent current gangs and upcoming gangs recruiting people based on any skills other than RP, would certainly increase the roleplay within these gangs and the RP you get from interactions with these gangs.

1c. Personality

The whitelisted gang leaders should be vetting those that are being let into the gang, gang leads and their seniors should be vetting these individuals to see if their fit to join the gang that has a lot of privileges. It is fairly easy to determine if someone is fit for a gang or not, the amount of times I've witnessed some of the "hobos" or "baldies" up in pillbox that are constantly doing quite questionable things. 

2. Gang Wars

Gang wars should be brought up after weeks to months of RP, not just "GANG A" called you an idiot on Tweedle then you're at war the next day. Yous can do drive bys on their turf, tag their turf without it blasting out into a whole aids war that's constantly KOS on each others turfs, again ITS A ROLEPLAY SERVER! Create some interesting scenarios, watch some gang banger films and take inspiration or some shit.

You shouldn't be able to ally with another gang whilst you're at war for whatever circumstance.

You shouldn't be able to ally with another gang when you hated their guts and were slaughtering them 2 weeks before unless something significant has changed such as; new leadership.

Gang alliances for wars, shooting police, gruppe6, because a gang robbed one of your mates that weren't in colours shouldn't be a thing.

Gang wars should be fought on foot, not in cars unless its an armoured car. (Could bring back first person whilst trying to shooting).

Gang war rules need to be punishable unless significant amount of RP has been created to break them as too many people break these war rules for whatever reason which leads to false cases of RDM then use the excuse 'Its a war rule, not a server rule."

 

[Liam]

Liam no offense but it looks like i am speaking to a wall right now...

Yeah, and you're the wall

Don't take offence.

Have you not seen crime movies? If you think the only option is to war or be forced into a war, you've not seen enough.

 

[Bmav]

Just because another rival gang rolls up to your turf and fights you, doesn't mean it needs to turn into a full scale war?

- Set up a meeting

- Retaliate in colours

- Retaliate out of colours

- Negotiate them things

- etc

- Roleplay

Let me translate this simple by numbers of the suggestions you made.

1- Never seen a meeting go well and they usually end with someone shooting the other party (Church fight months ago and even meeting nowdays)

2- This leads to war.

3- This leads to war.

4- This means you will give them about 5 mil and a tweedle apology and afterwards someone will war you less than a week after because you are easy to fight.

5- don't know what you mean.

6- Roleplay ends up in you being shot.

Hopefully this explained

This is stuff you don't see happening but it does happen

@Liam

 

[Liam]

Let me translate this simple by numbers of the suggestions you made.

1- Never seen a meeting go well and they usually end with someone shooting the other party (Church fight months ago and even meeting nowdays)

2- This leads to war.

3- This leads to war.

4- This means you will give them about 5 mil and a tweedle apology and afterwards someone will war you less than a week after because you are easy to fight.

5- don't know what you mean.

6- Roleplay ends up in you being shot.

Hopefully this explained

Have you read Nuclears reply?

Well yes you are right, but for this what Liam suggested to work peoples mentalities need to change and work towards it, if mentality of people stays the same Liams suggestion wont work.

Just because another rival gang rolls up to your turf and fights you, doesn't mean it needs to turn into a full scale war?

- Set up a meeting

- Retaliate in colours

- Retaliate out of colours

- Negotiate them things

- etc

- Roleplay

What I said above, will only work if YOU, OTHER GANGS fix the stupid win mentality and stop with their shitty ego that they need to wage war on someone because they called their mother fat on Tweedle.

 

[Bmav]

Have you read Nuclears reply?

What I said above, will only work if YOU, OTHER GANGS fix the stupid win mentality and stop with their shitty ego that they need to wage war on someone because they called their mother fat on Tweedle.

This is easy to say mate but for that it has to be every single gang because otherwise even 1 gang can ruin it for every other gang like i mentioned thats why i say its something impossible or far-fetched to do if you ask me.

I would love for that to be the case but its just something i honestly can't see happening.

 

[Liam]

This is easy to say mate but for that it has to be every single gang because otherwise even 1 gang can ruin it for every other gang like i mentioned thats why i say its something impossible or far-fetched to do if you ask me.

I would love for that to be the case but its just something i honestly can't see happening.

You can be the change. You're currently at war with Ballas right now or yous are in a drive by gunfight or something. You and Ballas lead have the opportunity to turn this into such a huge RP scenario as in your lore yous are both at war in GTA.

Instead of teaming up at the first instance some of your boys/girls get nicked to kidnap G6 for a prison break when yous have been shooting each other an hour ago before.

For instance;

When Triads were first a thing, we used to beef marabunta for a couple of hours shooting each other, stabbing each other, kidnapping them and doing a whole RP scene (I don't believe we dumped them) then after the restart, we would be on okay terms and this would continue for however long. It was fun for those involved on both sides of the gangs. Use your imagination, watch some films, some TV shows.

 

[Bmav]

You can be the change. You're currently at war with Ballas right now or yous are in a drive by gunfight or something. You and Ballas lead have the opportunity to turn this into such a huge RP scenario as in your lore yous are both at war in GTA.

Instead of teaming up at the first instance some of your boys/girls get nicked to kidnap G6 when yous have been shooting each other an hour ago before.

For instance;

When Triads were first a thing, we used to beef marabunta for a couple of hours shooting each other, stabbing each other, kidnapping them and doing a whole RP scene (I don't believe we dumped them) then after the restart, we would be on okay terms and this would continue for however long. It was fun for those involved on both sides of the gangs. Use your imagination, watch some films, some TV shows.

But neither ballas or grove have complained on the current beef they are having, we are both sides having fun we started with kidnappings first and afterwards went into a meele war that was under the radar for a while until we escalated it into a gunfight war as for the end of the war its something we are working on but we can't just force it like you mention kinda if you know what i mean,

As for the teamming up for our boys in prison i honestly don't see an issue with thats literaly us trying to "end" the war per say but slowly basically that team up will be one of the reasons the war will end but again its something that cant be just forced.

And lets be honest if police got involved in the middle of 2 gangs in reality those gangs would ignore each other and most likely fight police together its just something that happens because both will fear the police more than each other and in most cases we have run away from police at the end of the gunfights like it should be and not team up to fight them in the middle of fighting each other.

The same happened when we were at war with vagos we teammed up in humane labs after realeasing our boys and ended the war like 2 or 3 days later.

 

[Liam]

As for the teamming up for our boys in prison i honestly don't see an issue with thats literaly us trying to "end" the war per say but slowly basically that team up will be one of the reasons the war will end but again its something that cant be just forced.

And lets be honest if police got involved in the middle of 2 gangs in reality those gangs would ignore each other and most likely fight police together its just something that happens because both will fear the police more than each other.

You teamed up to "end the war" but were back shooting each other the next day? It doesn't make sense in RP. You and Ballas are a criminal gang, you shouldn't be teaming up. You should've done it yourself and got your boys out then murdered the Ballas prisoners but it is what it is and in the past now so I wont comment further.

I don't believe they would ignore each other, in reality. Both gangs would run at the hearing of police sirens as they do in real life, TV Shows, Movies.

 

[Custard Cream *left*]

100% Agree with all aspects here, seen to many people here who had great RP being reduced to frag hungry kids not interested in RP. Past few days ive been UC in my Cop character ive witnessed conversations from most high profile gangs having conversations saying that they "Only join the server to kill people" And that is within RP. Back when i joined when the gang update just came out the RP was impeccable.  As was police RP but both have took a serious and drastic turn for the worse. Its not just the gangs a lot of senior members of the police who I wont name have a shit attitude and serious lacking if roleplay and the lesser ranks just follow suit. A community meeting needs to take place with all the seniors in the police, gangs and representing factions to come to some agreement in my opinion to change this attitude and roleplay completely cos as of late it feels no differently than certain arma servers were everyone are just trying to get "Frags" Instead of focusing on the heart of server which is RP. 

 

[Dazz]

When you see gangs posting frag montages on the forums just shows how bad the state of gangs are right now.

In my time on the forums I've not seen a gang post a frag montage, maybe the post has been deleted before I have seen it. Obviously gang members clip their kills and shit like that is sort of inevitable that things are always gonna be clipped but behind the scenes in gangs some great RP can occur, the amount of RP I have witnessed from gangs and funny times I have had in my gang since I joined have been great dont get me wrong it can always improve as their is always room for improvement in every aspect of life but for someone who does main a gang character I think people tend to dislike us because of past mistakes that are made and we are never really able to move on from due to the constant reminder from people in the RPUK community. You may think I'm being bias in saying that but I genuinely do see gangs taking part in high quality roleplay as previously said not all the time but I know a lot of us do our upmost to ensure that our scenarios are interesting.

 

[Isak]

"hobos" or "baldies"

HEY! Im a hobo and a baldie… I am truly offended…

 

[Howie]

Liam it looks like you've put a lot of effort into this post so thank you.

But I think you're looking at this from the wrong angle, you are looking at the symptoms and not the root causes... 

What we have at the moment is a race to be 'on top' due to the below:

1) Lore constraints. 
2) A complete even playing feild. 
3) A complete lack of criminal content.

Now why is the above an issue and how could it be addressed? 

1a) In a constantly evolving city with thousands of moving parts, gangs are static.

Example - by having it hard written that Ballas and Grove will always be enemies you inadvertently encourage a 'frag' mentality, if you are in Grove, the next war is always coming and it will nearly always be with Ballas.

That in and of itself isn't an issue, but what it creates is an issue.
People start to plan for the worst case scenario, a war. So what you see during peacetime is gang members grinding for cash, guns and ammo so when the inevitable war comes you can afford to come home from college/uni/work, login to the server at 8pm and spend 1-6hrs doing nothing but fight your rival gang, while doing anything you can to make sure your gangmates (or in some cases the rival gangmates) don't lose what they have spent hours upon hours 'grinding' for. 

You may or may not see an problem with that, but I really do believe if you delete (not retcon, it's still in the gangmembers collective memories) the lore and allow relationships to evolve independently you will see a more vibrant, unique and RP focused gang side to the server as people come and go and rosters change.

2a) Gangs on paper are completely equal and good, that sounds fair. But again I think there is an unintended side affect, it hinders an organic and fluid gang environment, that does nothig to promote unique, innovative or creative RP beyond some poor accents.

If you really want to see RP over everything thing else, gangs must be asymmetrically balanced so that inter-gang relations become more important. What I would like to see, is the gang benefits split so no gang can be self reliant.

Example - Imagine if there were only 3 gangs in the server - Ballas, Grove & Vagos. 
Vagos have access to Gus, but no sell area or Lost/Firm deals.
Grove have a sell area, but no Gus or Lost/Firm deals. 
Ballas have Lost/Firm deals, but no sell area or access to Gus.

In this imaginary server I see a war between Vagos and Grove having an actual, serious impact. It would efficiently shut down the servers drug market, hurting the overall economy. 

*Sure this scenario isn't perfect as Ballas are left out in the cold. I just hope you can see were I'm coming from and build upon it. 

3a) This is harder, I fully expect the good old 'there are a million things to do' reply to be thrown at me on this one. 

Before you do though, ask yourself what have gangs done for the past, lets say 3 months? 

-Gus runs
-Coke cutting
-Drug selling
-Robbed police
-Robbed taxi drivers
-Gang wars

Three of these involve no RP, it's solo content.

The other three are most efficiently done quickly, which results in minimal RP. Yes, they can be done less efficiently, but if you really expect people to consistently make that conscious choice you are setting yourself up for failure (or the gang RP we currently have. 

*I want to note here, this is not a dig at the Dev/Staff teams. I understand how much work you put in for people like me to come in and have thousands of hours of fun for free - I also get the feeling the Dev team may not want to provide us with content, because you see the pace at which we burn through it or just straight up complain that it's bad or we would rather have x,y or z instead. But I assure you that is the vocal minority, not the majority. 

 

[adaco]

I don't know about ya'll but this guy spittin hella fax

 

[JackJohnson]

Holy shit this was a good read - majority of points I’ve read on here makes a lot of sense and are really good, from both people with cop mains and crim mains, it reads to me like most people want the same thing. Unfortunately there will always be those people that want to run and gun all day long. 
 

Now I will say - my civ/crim character has no more than dipped his toe (so maybe expect an infant view on it compared to your experienced crim RPers) into all of the content available, YES I SAID ALL OF THE CONTENT, I constantly see people on these forums saying there is none or very little criminal activity to do, however I feel a lot of people are forgetting the things that are taken for granted; 

-Weapons manufacturing 

-Gus runs 

-General drug manufacturing

-Whitelisted gangs (which should be recognised as a privilege) 

-Armoured cars 

-The big bank 

-Dodgy doctor 

-Lifeinvader 

Now, the above is only a SMALL selection of the things that have been created/imported/set up etc.. for criminals - there is a lot more, some I won’t mention for metagaming reasons, others I won’t mention simply because I don’t know enough about them however I think some of the best things I’ve seen from criminal gangs is the things they’ve created from nothing within RP - the dev team can only do so much to provide the tools needed, however the players are expected to use them properly, fairly and with a focus on RP. 
 

Something I have been thinking about the past few days, that @Liamtouched on earlier - why are gangs killing each other 1 hour then the very next hour they are teaming up against the Police, to get people out of prison, to fight another gang etc… do you think a real gangster IRL would be ok fighting alongside someone who potentially killed his brother/best friend/gang leader etc… the very same day? To me that makes no sense at all. To me, any gangster that has just seen his brother (or whoever) being murdered by a rival gang would hold a deep desire for revenge surely? 
 

Just a quick thought - but for serious RP, if x amount of gangs are at war and want to bring an end to it, why does the solution need to be them becoming allies? Surely if for example, 4 gangs are involved, their members are being gunned down constantly and they want it to end - 4 gang leads met somewhere mutual and come to an agreement. If 1 gang violates whatever the agreement is at any point, then they instantly have the 3 after them for breaching the agreement? This then means those 4 gangs get back to day-to-day life without a war going on, but doesn’t mean they need to ally themselves with each other.

MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION - follow the agreement or else

I am in no way at all saying this is the holy grail, the solution to all fights, just a small example of a better RP opportunity than what we are seeing of recent. 

No doubt there will be a few people that disagree, so let me know what you think

ps - my main is my cop, I have limited knowledge of the inner workings of gang life on RPUK as my crim character is just starting out so I may very well be missing something - I just think wars are becoming an easy (but expensive) option lately. 

 

[Dazz]

Both gangs would run at the hearing of police sirens as they do in real life, TV Shows, Movies.

I have done this personally and get moaned at for doing it because apparently it is not realistic to run away from police when they are chasing you. Also this "teaming up" has only happened on one occasion any other time we have fled the scene to ensure we are not being arrested whilst in an area marked as dangerous for one another. We can't base all our RP off of movies as then nothing becomes genuine and is all somewhat scripted, taking inspiration is one thing I'm all for as it can develop your character and scenarios but at the same time its knowing when to draw the line and as a lot of us have stated most people don't give genuinely good RP a chance as their main goal is their financial status.

Personally I enjoy a good police chase, good police interview, a conversation between police and myself in the cells/car/interrogation room I think this can make for good RP and enjoyable RP on both sides, I have stated to you before in a conversation prior to this thread I personally dont mind getting caught losing things and going to prison, crime is no fun without consequence that being said why should we be expected to give up as soon as we see police, I have been in foot chases lately and have been called on in OOC for NVL for running away from armed police when my thought process has been "I understand the precautions taken due to other armed members of my gang or another but I personally have presented no threat meaning I should not be shot for just running".

I feel like as a gang member the worst is always thought of us in scenarios from a lot of people mainly feds as they are the people who have to deal with us on a regular basis and see the thick and thin of the shit we do I get that we can be dicks and take the piss at times but all a lot of us if not all of us are after is to have a bit of a laugh with you or instead of that high quality RP not just snide remarks and to be ignored whilst in a car as that's not fun for either party. I can only speak for myself in my posts and  people who may agree with me but I think as a whole the dynamic between crims and cops should change in a way to make the relationship that is had between officers and crims less toxic as its always one side taking the piss out the other or people getting injured/kill with little to no RP behind it.

I'm not asking for us all to be buddy buddy with each other but there's a line crossed by countless individuals (myself included) that from time to time throw RP out the window and are just toxic cunts because we think that the situation we have been placed in is shit but we aren't helping by making our snide remarks or insulting people if anything we are making the situation worse than it already is therefore lowering the bar of RP in the server.

 

[Mark]

I have read through this and I have personally all my experience been on the gang side of things,

I genuinely feel like this server isn't meeting the RP standard in general except from the NHS that actually provide good roleplay, the only times I have personally seen good RP from police is when Bowen arrested me on his police character and went along with the RP very well where I had just logged on and Triads were being raided, I had been tear gassed and Bowen approached me arrested me and then asked questions and then searched me, I was put into a police van at the front and the officer in the van was just not attempting to roleplay it out, when we started moving I asked Bowen "Hey can I have my seatbelt on? I am cuffed I can't put it on myself" and he went out of the way to roleplay it out, not many cops do this or provide roleplay within the cells/escorting.

In my opinion it's not just gangs that need to improve the RP, I have seen the bad RP given to cops and I've seen the same energy given back, I personally whenever arrested/pulled over I try to provide great RP wherever possible however sometimes when I try to provide good RP the cops either cannot be bothered or just assume because I am a gang member I am going to whip out a knife and just start stabbing or shooting.

1. Gang Recruitment

Civilians on the server shouldn't be purely recruited into a gang based on their graft skills, fragging skills and or how much money they have. This is a roleplay server, the gangs should be meeting with potential candidates to join their gang, vetting them, making sure that they aren't an idiot fresh out of the Caravan at Sandy Shores.

Gangs should be recruiting based on their RP ability, NOTHING ELSE.

With roleplay ability it's hard to roleplay out as a gang in my opinion when police don't think very highly of gangs because of a few people who ruin the experience, I understand that police do not want to take any chances of being held up at gunpoint with awful roleplay but there are many of us that do roleplay.

With the graft skills, fragging skills and money I have to break this down.

1. Grafting Skills

This server like it or not is built around grafting, if you don't graft nothing gets done, it's easy for police to roll around with stuff they already have but with gangs we have to mine/smelt to get resources to make our weapons/equipment to do what we do, we can't just sit around and talk all the time otherwise it's just time wasted and this is how it is.

2. Fragging Skills

In a gang you need the shooters/fighters otherwise how else are you going to fight and protect your gang?

I do however 100% agree that sometimes the top fraggers do not have the best RP, I have seen someone in the server legit have the best shot but they blurt out rules and "I am going to roleplay this out" while in the server and they get banned for it, I do agree more roleplay should be incorporated into gangs however with standards so low from police and nothing to roleplay with it's sort of a dead end.

3. Money

In my opinion this server is basically police vs criminals 24/7 and there are no proper RP jobs, you may argue and say "Mechanics! Taxi!" but that's not RP, whenever I ask for a mechanic to create some RP they come up to me either rob me or just say while repairing "1K to ____" same with Taxi jobs, you have a big chance of being robbed with no roleplay, whenever I am clocked on as taxi driver I always try to make conversation and roleplay out scenarios but people are genuinely more interested in getting somewhere quick and earn money.

No matter what you do on this server it's all going to be about money, it's all going to be about who has the most money, you need money to get somewhere in this server, you can't sit somewhere with someone and roleplay out something while earning money unless it's the £35 you get from salary.

1b. RP Ability

As I said above, gangs should recruit people based on their RP Ability nothing else. I'm sure majority of us are sick to death of the people who have been here in the past and still currently are for gunfights with minimal RP. Implementing a server rule that circumvent current gangs and upcoming gangs recruiting people based on any skills other than RP, would certainly increase the roleplay within these gangs and the RP you get from interactions with these gangs.

I agree with the minimal RP side of things, I genuinely sometimes think people just want to log on and start shooting for no reason or create a small reason to do so, I genuinely feel like sometimes in this server it's constant war this, shoot this and dump this guy.

This server is hardly roleplay.co.uk it's basically GTA Online with some rules and a food bar, I admit that I have messed up a bunch of times with roleplay, I mean I was warned for exploiting and I could've roleplayed that out so much better it's just I didn't think the others wanted to roleplay it out, again roleplay standards on this server are so low it's second nature to just avoid it or try to get it over with, it's rare you get good roleplay.

1c. Personality

The whitelisted gang leaders should be vetting those that are being let into the gang, gang leads and their seniors should be vetting these individuals to see if their fit to join the gang that has a lot of privileges. It is fairly easy to determine if someone is fit for a gang or not, the amount of times I've witnessed some of the "hobos" or "baldies" up in pillbox that are constantly doing quite questionable things. 

I cannot personally comment on this because I am not a higher up/gang leader myself however the only time I have seen stuff like this is with non-whitelisted gangs that have just joined the server and want to cause mayhem to get recognised and have attention on them.

However I have not witnessed this happening so again I don't think I could comment an actual opinion on this.

2. Gang Wars

Gang wars should be brought up after weeks to months of RP, not just "GANG A" called you an idiot on Tweedle then you're at war the next day. Yous can do drive bys on their turf, tag their turf without it blasting out into a whole aids war that's constantly KOS on each others turfs, again ITS A ROLEPLAY SERVER! Create some interesting scenarios, watch some gang banger films and take inspiration or some shit.

Ballas and Grove I feel like is a really good natural war, in the lore it states Grove and Ballas never got along as gangs, we keep it fair and fun and we're not doing it to rob/dump each other we are genuinely doing it for the roleplay of it all and the fun of it.

I do agree with the tweedle beef causing a gang war, I feel like there should be roleplay that leads up to it, lets take Triads vs Hustlers, at the start it was the mini things, someone called a Triad a "slag" and it was said to be a Hustler so they come up to Hustler turf and it was roleplayed out, no gunfights whatsoever just genuine speaking and resolving the issue, then Hustlers started attempting to rob people that were Triads which ticked off Triads more as they had been lenient with them, I think you get the point that wars should happen from not just one thing but with multiple reasons and roleplay happening to make it escalate not just on tweedle "fuck ________" and then pull up start a war.

 ​

Personal overview​

I genuinely think people are bored, there isn't really much to do on the server anymore other than graft for money to buy a vehicle to show off for a week or two, there isn't people on here willing to create roleplay, it's a mixture between people who want great roleplay and there's people on here that just want to fight with minimal roleplay.

I personally see this server as a PVP server with some rules set in place, you have a bank and a food bar, I genuinely do want to roleplay, I want my character to go places in RPUK but I feel like at the moment the server isn't RP based anymore it's more of "You have 10 mil? Okay you have this and that", money >>>> RP on this server and this is just my experience.

I wouldn't class everyone under Gangs because in gangs you have people that genuinely roleplay stuff out and then you have others that bring the gang reputation down.

This is just my opinion feel free to comment whether you agree or disagree I am happy to explain in further detail if asked to.

 

[Ade]

The twat factor is very strong in the gangs at the moment. I'm seeing it on the server and in the report section equally.  

Bmav you're arguing at the mo in this thread for how things are currently. You are not seeing it for how it could or should be. You can be an agent of change like many others.

Everyone in this thread can. Its raised some solid points and I genuinely do think there is a serious amount of single braincelled gang members running rampant right now that need to wake the fuck up or fuck off.

Liam nailed it. That's all I can say. I agreed with all points.

 Stop being fixated with the present and think about the future. That's meant for everyone. 

I'm tired of idiots and children who's every interaction is "oi big man, who are you" or "have you paid your tax"

Let's try and improve from this and it might actually be fun. 

To add one point I think should be rule for the gangs. If you're gonna tax people do it IN COLOURS. Don't think I need to explain why. 

 

[JB_]

The only way any of this works @Liamis if every single gang lead/member changes mentality at the exact same time. Its an ego server at this point. One gang could provide the highest quality RP in the server but all it takes is the opp gang to have a lower standard, have the mentality that they need to be on top and its all over. They'll be down in super cars teaching them a lesson.
Imagine if we got Vagos to be strictly "in character" - Everyone had low riders, we sold drugs on our own turf on corners, did selling to civ characters etc and didn't let people push us around. How long would that last before someone got upset and we had rumpos on turf and bulletproof backed cars carrying special carbines? EVERYTHING would have to change at once and I think the only way for this to happen is for management to one by one work along side each gang/lead, explain what they want from them and how they want to see them behave and then take it from there. Explain to each gang that if they refuse to follow the blueprint outlined for them they can be pulled/banned for it.

 

[Liam]

The only way any of this works @Liamis if every single gang lead/member changes mentality at the exact same time. Its an ego server at this point. One gang could provide the highest quality RP in the server but all it takes is the opp gang to have a lower standard, have the mentality that they need to be on top and its all over. They'll be down in super cars teaching them a lesson.
Imagine if we got Vagos to be strictly "in character" - Everyone had low riders, we sold drugs on our own turf on corners, did selling to civ characters etc and didn't let people push us around. How long would that last before someone got upset and we had rumpos on turf and bulletproof backed cars carrying special carbines? EVERYTHING would have to change at once and I think the only way for this to happen is for management to one by one work along side each gang/lead, explain what they want from them and how they want to see them behave and then take it from there. Explain to each gang that if they refuse to follow the blueprint outlined for them they can be pulled/banned for it.

Ngl, I miss when Vagos would drive around in Low Riders and use an accent, same with other gangs it just kind of dwindled out and I don't blame them, some of the accents would be hard to keep doing over time.

Everything else that you've said I agree with, gangs need to come to realisation if they're here for roleplay or a gunfight. Same with Police.

I have read through this and I have personally all my experience been on the gang side of things,

I genuinely feel like this server isn't meeting the RP standard in general except from the NHS that actually provide good roleplay, the only times I have personally seen good RP from police is when Bowen arrested me on his police character and went along with the RP very well where I had just logged on and Triads were being raided, I had been tear gassed and Bowen approached me arrested me and then asked questions and then searched me, I was put into a police van at the front and the officer in the van was just not attempting to roleplay it out, when we started moving I asked Bowen "Hey can I have my seatbelt on? I am cuffed I can't put it on myself" and he went out of the way to roleplay it out, not many cops do this or provide roleplay within the cells/escorting.

+1 RP as a whole has dropped from Gangs, Police, Normal Civs. NHS is only really where the high quality is really at. However, you do get some good apples in gangs, police, normal civs. RPUK is a huge server, its public and got 301 players it'll be really hard to regulate everyone to be a high quality roleplayer but we can start with gangs that have been put there and same with Police.

With roleplay ability it's hard to roleplay out as a gang in my opinion when police don't think very highly of gangs because of a few people who ruin the experience, I understand that police do not want to take any chances of being held up at gunpoint with awful roleplay but there are many of us that do roleplay.

Police used to think highly of gangs, it was a new feature "The gang update" we were all looking forward to it, we had people in low riders doing accents based on their gang but it soon turned into 'Lets farm cops as vending machines at 3am with no regard of how fun it'll be for them, only that I'll have 10 guns by tomorrow that I can sell'

1. Grafting Skills

This server like it or not is built around grafting, if you don't graft nothing gets done, it's easy for police to roll around with stuff they already have but with gangs we have to mine/smelt to get resources to make our weapons/equipment to do what we do, we can't just sit around and talk all the time otherwise it's just time wasted and this is how it is.

That is true, you need certain stuff to craft certain stuff (left it out due to metagaming, find out in RP) but gangs shouldn't be recruiting people into gangs because they sit in the mine for 8 hours a day. I have been in three gangs - Grove, Triads, Ballas and I have heard of others experiences in gangs and seen it for myself. Not ALL but some gangs have recruited people based purely on how much money they have, how good they are at frags, how well they can graft but their RP has been extremely minimal and they are no longer here, I wonder why?

In my opinion this server is basically police vs criminals 24/7 and there are no proper RP jobs, you may argue and say "Mechanics! Taxi!" but that's not RP, whenever I ask for a mechanic to create some RP they come up to me either rob me or just say while repairing "1K to ____" same with Taxi jobs, you have a big chance of being robbed with no roleplay, whenever I am clocked on as taxi driver I always try to make conversation and roleplay out scenarios but people are genuinely more interested in getting somewhere quick and earn money.

Yeah, I agree the only legal job you can really do to make money is Mechanics and Taxis and a lot of them don't RP or down right refuse to. I was chasing a taxi who ran a red light and he failed to stop then began driving in circles shouting to me "Just leave me alone, I just want to my taxi job" instead of just pulling over and roleplaying with me, he would've probably got a ticket and sent on his way.

Ballas and Grove I feel like is a really good natural war, in the lore it states Grove and Ballas never got along as gangs, we keep it fair and fun and we're not doing it to rob/dump each other we are genuinely doing it for the roleplay of it all and the fun of it.

I don't mind Ballas and Grove war since their lore is that they are at war, but it doesn't need to be constant as I stated before when I was in the Triads and we would beef Marabunta as they were our lore enemy, we would beef them for 4 hours with drive bys, kidnappings then after the restart we'd go back to what we were doing and in a few days they would attack us then go back to normal. It felt like a long standing war, but it wasn't a war that resulted in war rules being broken, mass reports going up because we were salty that Marabunta Ricardo Salvador or Joshua Cortez shot me and I wanted him banned.

I genuinely think people are bored, there isn't really much to do on the server anymore other than graft for money to buy a vehicle to show off for a week or two, there isn't people on here willing to create roleplay, it's a mixture between people who want great roleplay and there's people on here that just want to fight with minimal roleplay.

I personally see this server as a PVP server with some rules set in place, you have a bank and a food bar, I genuinely do want to roleplay, I want my character to go places in RPUK but I feel like at the moment the server isn't RP based anymore it's more of "You have 10 mil? Okay you have this and that", money >>>> RP on this server and this is just my experience.

I wouldn't class everyone under Gangs because in gangs you have people that genuinely roleplay stuff out and then you have others that bring the gang reputation down.

This is just my opinion feel free to comment whether you agree or disagree I am happy to explain in further detail if asked to.

People are bored, I understand where they are coming from. Implementing Fleeca Banks and Humane Lab robberies, isn't going to solve them being bold IMO. I've watched a few clips of NoPixel on Twitch and you see randoms and gangs getting fun out of roleplaying, not just being spoon fed features that the devs have implemented. Sure, they help with your roleplay if you wanted to do a roleplay bank.

The twat factor is very strong in the gangs at the moment. I'm seeing it on the server and in the report section equally.  

Bmav you're arguing at the mo in this thread for how things are currently. You are not seeing it for how it could or should be. You can be an agent of change like many others.

Everyone in this thread can. Its raised some solid points and I genuinely do think there is a serious amount of single braincelled gang members running rampant right now that need to wake the fuck up or fuck off.

Liam nailed it. That's all I can say. I agreed with all points.

 Stop being fixated with the present and think about the future. That's meant for everyone. 

I'm tired of idiots and children who's every interaction is "oi big man, who are you" or "have you paid your tax"

Let's try and improve from this and it might actually be fun. 

To add one point I think should be rule for the gangs. If you're gonna tax people do it IN COLOURS. Don't think I need to explain why. 

+1 fully agree with your comment

 

[assgoggles]

I agree with pretty much all of this. Gang wars with how they go currently are shit, people bring their ego in game and due to that tweedle beef starts and people take it seriously to where people then go kill each other. I personally think Tweedle beef between gangs is cringe anyway as your supposed to be RPing as a gangster and not some keyboard warrior at secondary school, however I do also sometimes find it quite funny with some of the photos and comedy that comes of it. I think for wars to start for better reasons gang members need to lose their ego and actually want to RP rather than just find any small reason to shoot, kill, doctor, dump. But in defence of that I can understand why it happens, as a gang member I am struggling to find things to do in regards to having good RP with others, I think the server needs to have more things to do and open up more opportunities for gangs (and everyone else) to have good RP situations with others as right now it is pretty dry.

I do believe the attitude and RP of gangs needs a huge rethink, from what it seems at the moment gangs come across as some social group who just chill out together. From my understanding we are supposed to be hardcore gang members who are fighting for drugs, turf and guns so when things like gangs buddying up (Tragos for instance) I personally don't think that makes sense in a RP perspective, I get if you were to have similar objectives at a point in time so you might mutually benefit each other but to become some oversized gang who hang around all the time and go in each others colours seems very odd from and RP standpoint of being a gangster and I do agree gang "alliances" such as Tragos or Trallas shouldn't be allowed I'd say personally that its poor RP especially in wars.

However with all that being said I do feel like police have a role to play in this gang revamp idea. Too often I see police rolling past and through gang turfs on their own thinking there is no repercussions and nothing will happen, regardless of this new police ability to be robbed less or not I feel that police should try treat gangs and their turfs as something to be feared. As a hustler I see it too often where either cops pull up on to our turf by themselves and expect nothing to happen or 2 of them will come into the club and start partying. Personally if I was a cop the last thing I'd do is to go violent gang's turf by myself, you'd instantly be putting yourself in so much danger and risking your life, let alone to even come inside the club and party by yourselves.

Overall I agree that gangs need to change, however I don't just think its down to gangs to make it happen there is a lot of other factors involved in changing the RP for the better and I think it should come from everyone on the server. 



 

 

[Lunar]

Current State of Gangs and Gang Beef Leading To Wars

Gangs in the city have been told time and time again to improve and have been given some options and direction in the past on how to do this. What amazes me is the way that after a few weeks of the water settling another war pops up with very poor RP to follow, people shooting and dumping and talking smack to each other.

From my own POV this has happened because gangs always try to 1 up each other in conflicts that quickly escalates to full scale war with very little RP.

Instead of gangs and individuals in the gang taking the small Ls they decide they want the other guy to take a bigger L. That is why wars have started from tweedled and escalated to a shit show, usually not even involving a full gang but one individual from a gang arguing or trash talking each other leading to a drive by or kidnapping, this is where that sort of RP should usually come to its end but in many cases this turns into a bigger conflict either because the victor continuing to trash talk to the person they have punished or even killed off or the loser continuing this arc as they don't want it to end with them losing. Eventually this leads to one or more other parties getting involved from the gangs and then you have the beginning of a war.

IMO gangs should have conflict almost all the time without it leading to war. Kidnappings, drive-bys, tagging others turfs, stabbings, these are things you could see gangs do IRL and you can easily replicate in RP. I would suggest playing through the GTA story and getting an idea about how the gangs in the game act and what actions they take towards each other as the story progresses.

Gangs are also less and less fearful of police, to the point where police can show up and make themselves known yet fights will continue and are not containable by police. If there are a lot of gunshots you can expect police to show up, if people hear the police coming they should react as fearful and start to run. In reality there is no way a gang member is going to stand their looping round a turf pointing a gun when they hear a police car coming.

Fear The Consequences of War In RP and Take The L

War should be something a gang really really does not want to start or be involved in, their fellow gang members could die in front of them and you would also be at risk of dying. Petty crimes like I mentioned above if someone is fully killed I don't think they should be able to continue on with that story or "Beef." It makes very little sense, if another gang member finds out about a member of their group being killed or even who it was, they could continue with a little revenge story but this RP should not involve the person that was killed taking part, it makes no sense.

I think that if wars and such were less likely to happen and people were able to do the things I have mentioned without the threat of the conflict never ending and only escalating, there would be more stuff for gangs to do solving the other issue that people have mentioned, beef would actually have a way to be resolved without it leading to a full on war.

I also think that during a war, the gang should lock their f6, stay in gang clothing, and opposing sides should only really try to kidnap the opposition slowly giving good RP throughout before then killing that member, not going and wiping them with a full on gunfight unless completely necessary and following good RP. This would bring a high level of police attention and in RP gangs should be fearful of the police force taking them down. Once someone is killed as a result of one of these gang wars they should take off their gang clothing and no longer take part in the war, they can still act as a gang member but if a gang fight were to happen with the gang that they are at war with, they should stay out of it and act as a bystander. This would mean wars come to an end and there will always be a victor. The final kill of a war should have a huge amount of effort put into it within RP.

If wars were to happen this way I would love to see an affect in RP. When there are no more members left to fight a gang war there could be a grace period where the gang members don't put the gang clothing on, for about 1 week. They could still do all the things a gang does but could not mention the gang or act out RP as that gang for a week before coming back. In this time they could still use the turf and all of the other things but don't call themselves a gang, just a group of friends. This would be amazing environmental RP for all the others in the city and act as a way to make gangs try to stay away from war as much as possible.

The less likely a gang is to go to war because of beef, the better RP you can have as a gang through beef and gang crime against other gangs. Also meaning that there is more to do as a gang member/criminal in the city.

What Would It Take For Changes To Happen

You can't please everyone when there are this many people that need to take part, if one gang does not follow this type of example then the others will soon also follow as one gang will be constantly winning and getting a bigger and bigger ego the others will soon have enough and will start to do the same.

I have an idea on implementing and starting this type of idea, you would need to have a clear instruction on how these RP systems would work, people would basically need an RP handbook given out when joining a gang and how gang conflict should be done to make it fun and fair for everyone. In the future this would not be as much of a requirement as people would then be able to lead by example, at the moment their is no example for a gang to follow.

Once this guide/handbook is at a level ready to be given out there would be a meeting scheduled for gangs and staff where staff and devs go over their expectations for gangs moving forward with good detail and ensuring that people understand how this change is going to be implemented. Follow-up meetings could also be an option to see how things are going and receiving feedback from the gangs about the changes.

Reward gangs for their improvements in RP and for people in gangs that set a good example on how gang RP should be done. Even something as small as a "Good RP from you [Name]" as a public message that people can see, will help people feel like they are giving good RP. This change of RP for gangs require all gangs to put effort into changing and I feel a good reward would be the implementation of the systems like the lost and firm have with their exclusive avenues to get items that others cant. Gangs do have a long way to go before this can happen but having that as a goal and having a set idea on how the gangs can get there will help them to improve.

Because any change will require all gangs to take part and provide good RP you can expect more gangs and individuals to take more Ls, some gangs will not want this and will want to always find a way to win, this leads to toxicity and leads to more gangs falling and losing that RP standard. For this issue I think there needs to be more of a connection between staff and gangs, having an OOC meeting in TS about progress and what has happened through the week would help to stub out this behavior leading to a better environment overall for the rest of the community. This would be a short meeting like the police have every week with staff and devs.

At the end of the day gangs are a huge part of the server and any changes expected by the gang, should be made aware to others in the community and feedback from any changes would help gauge how people are finding the changes, not only from a gangs POV but from everyone's POV.

This is my own idea and I don't expect everyone to agree with it. There does need to be a change but for that to happen people need to care and put effort in for that change to happen, it is easy to tell gangs to "do better" but what really needs to happen is for those same people to put effort in to help make those changes happen if they really do want things to change. If you have gone through this post and not read it and still expect gangs to change, you are a part of this problem too.