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EU Referendum Poll
- Thread starter Wetsuit
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- oxfordshire
why are people wanting to leave. im here to stay in the EU I dont want my dad to get a work permit or have to be able to get a visa every time he enters the UK. ALso for me I will lose my dual nationally which means it would be harer for me to get a greek passport. I belive we have a slim chance of staying with the EU and get better control in what happens in Brussels. I also belive we can obtain better trade deals as well and also lower the VAT
this is all I have to say on this matter please be cilvil
From PC Timmy
this is all I have to say on this matter please be cilvil
From PC Timmy
Ex SI Phil
Well-known member
- Location
- London
Yeah I'm #VoteLeave too
Pimpmauser
The Original Pimp
- Location
- Nottingham
#VoteRemain it's got more benefits for me.
killerabbit
Well-known member
- Location
- Cumbria
Stronger together, yes there is work to do with the EU, but running away is not the solution
Samatlewis
Where are the Eggplants?
- Location
- Kent
#votein
as risky as the EU is it is and we are far stronger in it.
as risky as the EU is it is and we are far stronger in it.
#IDKWHATTOCHOOSE
Jessedabest
Member
I vote in
dzul
Well-known member
- Location
- Poland
As a Polish communist i'd rather have UK stay cause I'd hate to see divided Europe again,but as I've no vote on this lemme post this Polandball comic(relevant only to the binoculars part) http://imgur.com/SuT6w79
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Thesoldier
Banned
- Location
- Florida, USA
Like every other American, I still have no clue what's going on, even though Wilco explained it to me a billion times.
- Location
- Somewhere
Remain in. A united Europe is a stronger Europe.
Not perfect, far from. But like the Scottish referendum we'd be in more trouble than we are in at the moment.
Not perfect, far from. But like the Scottish referendum we'd be in more trouble than we are in at the moment.
Capt C
Well-known member
- Location
- Europe
Something that a colleague of mine wrote, and resounds with me greatly.
Before I start this mini-essay on something I care deeply about, I should start off by stating that I have the utmost respect for close friends on both sides of the debate, who have expressed nuanced visions of clear conviction. I apologise for the length of the ensuing essay, but a witty hashtag was not forthcoming, and I’m not nearly interesting enough to have a blog.
To those who are sceptical of the claims by both sides as to what may happen, I thought it might be an idea to consider what has happened in the past, partially because it's generally one of our best indicators, partially because this is also a debate about who we are as a country, and partially because I desperately want my degree to be relevant.
The history of Europe over the last few centuries has been one which has defined Britain, but one which Britain has also defined. The very existence of the union of England and Scotland was shaped by the Continent and simultaneous unions of other countries seeking to make themselves stronger in an increasingly globalised world. The importance of Europe in defining our Union continues, not only with regard to Scotland, but to the Good Friday Agreement and the defence and prosperity of the Falklands and Gibraltar. I could never sanction anything which would put in doubt the unity of the country I am really quite fond of. And that's the highest level of emotion any self-respecting Briton should confess in public.
While British foreign policy has changed beyond all recognition in the last few centuries, one fundamental tenet has remained. The balance of power in Europe must be maintained, and Britain is the guarantor of that balance.
Imagine a scenario where Britain has the power to lead in Europe, but throws that away because a branch of the Tory Party sees its links overseas as more important. It subsequently loses that influence and ability to capitalise on its worldwide influence, only to regain it when she recognised her power in Europe, and her power abroad, were intertwined. Welcome to Britain in the eighteenth century, and continues to be the case.
When Britain has shirked that role, chaos has ensued (see end of War of Spanish Succession, War of Polish Succession, 19th Century Prussian preponderance) and our greatest successes have been in guaranteeing that balance (early War of Spanish Succession, Seven Years' War, the Battle of Waterloo, the Concert of Europe etc etc ad infinitum) with our European allies. Britain is a nation that keeps her promise, perfidious Albion one that turned her back on Europe when she has called for help. Let there be no doubt that Europe, at a time of great global uncertainty, needs us now. I know which Britain is mine.
Sovereignty is about empowering the people. In an increasingly globalised world, the will of the people is best secured in strong membership of international institutions, through playing an active part in institutions which will shape regulations globally. Reduce your influence, and you reduce the power of your tick in the box. Britain has often led in Europe. We should do so again: it's what the electorate deserves.
We must take into account the vital role Britain plays in shaping European foreign policy (Operation Atalanta, Sophia, sanctions etc) aid initiatives and financial frameworks. The voting statistics often vaunted by the Leave campaign are misguided as they do not take into account the remarkable influence that Britain plays in the negotiation phase in which decisions are taken by consensus. When Britain has wanted to, she has secured key roles, defining policy on a European scale. We have the Presidency next year, and with it the opportunity to define the European agenda. It could be our chance to revitalise subsidiarity, and to make the cradle of Western democracy realise her creed.
Had Britain invested more in the initial stages of the Union we could have secured a union free of many of the issues which are often raised. I sincerely believe that, as the fifth largest economy in the world and the key military and diplomatic player in Europe we could still secure genuine reform in terms of accountability and subsidiarity, with greater respect for the tenets of Montesquieu. It will, however, require a new approach to European negotiations. I am convinced that it is Britain's duty to shape Europe in such a way that it will right its wrongs and meet the multitude of challenges it faces. Those who suspect otherwise must therefore also believe that we will have no luck in securing a decent trade deal, such is our supposed lack of influence. It is our influence in those institutions makes us valuable to our allies in America and in the Commonwealth, and stronger in the world.
On a slightly more personal note, I should also take a moment to state that I would not be here were it not for the freedom of movement. That may be seen as both a positive and a negative depending on your point of view, but I know that, as the son of an immigrant, I feel an incredible debt to this country. I doubt I’ll ever be able to pay it back, but I’ll try my best. And I know that is the approach of the vast majority of those who have come here, who are our nurses, our doctors, our carers, our teachers. Who contribute far more than they take back, and therefore help pay for our schools and our hospitals, and do so out of a feeling of gratitude.
This debate should bring out the best in us. It is one which defines our role in the world, and how we think we can contribute as a nation to our own well-being, and to that of the world. It is our duty to lift the standard of debate befitting the enormity of the decision.
I will be voting to remain, I have been and will be out campaigning to secure what I am convinced is the best future for this country and, indeed, the European Union. This is not a time for clicktivism. If you really care about Britain's future in Europe, volunteer in the next couple of days, get out the vote, challenge arguments, convince family members and friends. It's going to be, to quote a British hero who recognised the importance of European co-operation, the nearest run thing you ever saw in your life. Leave nothing on the field come June 23rd.
Before I start this mini-essay on something I care deeply about, I should start off by stating that I have the utmost respect for close friends on both sides of the debate, who have expressed nuanced visions of clear conviction. I apologise for the length of the ensuing essay, but a witty hashtag was not forthcoming, and I’m not nearly interesting enough to have a blog.
To those who are sceptical of the claims by both sides as to what may happen, I thought it might be an idea to consider what has happened in the past, partially because it's generally one of our best indicators, partially because this is also a debate about who we are as a country, and partially because I desperately want my degree to be relevant.
The history of Europe over the last few centuries has been one which has defined Britain, but one which Britain has also defined. The very existence of the union of England and Scotland was shaped by the Continent and simultaneous unions of other countries seeking to make themselves stronger in an increasingly globalised world. The importance of Europe in defining our Union continues, not only with regard to Scotland, but to the Good Friday Agreement and the defence and prosperity of the Falklands and Gibraltar. I could never sanction anything which would put in doubt the unity of the country I am really quite fond of. And that's the highest level of emotion any self-respecting Briton should confess in public.
While British foreign policy has changed beyond all recognition in the last few centuries, one fundamental tenet has remained. The balance of power in Europe must be maintained, and Britain is the guarantor of that balance.
Imagine a scenario where Britain has the power to lead in Europe, but throws that away because a branch of the Tory Party sees its links overseas as more important. It subsequently loses that influence and ability to capitalise on its worldwide influence, only to regain it when she recognised her power in Europe, and her power abroad, were intertwined. Welcome to Britain in the eighteenth century, and continues to be the case.
When Britain has shirked that role, chaos has ensued (see end of War of Spanish Succession, War of Polish Succession, 19th Century Prussian preponderance) and our greatest successes have been in guaranteeing that balance (early War of Spanish Succession, Seven Years' War, the Battle of Waterloo, the Concert of Europe etc etc ad infinitum) with our European allies. Britain is a nation that keeps her promise, perfidious Albion one that turned her back on Europe when she has called for help. Let there be no doubt that Europe, at a time of great global uncertainty, needs us now. I know which Britain is mine.
Sovereignty is about empowering the people. In an increasingly globalised world, the will of the people is best secured in strong membership of international institutions, through playing an active part in institutions which will shape regulations globally. Reduce your influence, and you reduce the power of your tick in the box. Britain has often led in Europe. We should do so again: it's what the electorate deserves.
We must take into account the vital role Britain plays in shaping European foreign policy (Operation Atalanta, Sophia, sanctions etc) aid initiatives and financial frameworks. The voting statistics often vaunted by the Leave campaign are misguided as they do not take into account the remarkable influence that Britain plays in the negotiation phase in which decisions are taken by consensus. When Britain has wanted to, she has secured key roles, defining policy on a European scale. We have the Presidency next year, and with it the opportunity to define the European agenda. It could be our chance to revitalise subsidiarity, and to make the cradle of Western democracy realise her creed.
Had Britain invested more in the initial stages of the Union we could have secured a union free of many of the issues which are often raised. I sincerely believe that, as the fifth largest economy in the world and the key military and diplomatic player in Europe we could still secure genuine reform in terms of accountability and subsidiarity, with greater respect for the tenets of Montesquieu. It will, however, require a new approach to European negotiations. I am convinced that it is Britain's duty to shape Europe in such a way that it will right its wrongs and meet the multitude of challenges it faces. Those who suspect otherwise must therefore also believe that we will have no luck in securing a decent trade deal, such is our supposed lack of influence. It is our influence in those institutions makes us valuable to our allies in America and in the Commonwealth, and stronger in the world.
On a slightly more personal note, I should also take a moment to state that I would not be here were it not for the freedom of movement. That may be seen as both a positive and a negative depending on your point of view, but I know that, as the son of an immigrant, I feel an incredible debt to this country. I doubt I’ll ever be able to pay it back, but I’ll try my best. And I know that is the approach of the vast majority of those who have come here, who are our nurses, our doctors, our carers, our teachers. Who contribute far more than they take back, and therefore help pay for our schools and our hospitals, and do so out of a feeling of gratitude.
This debate should bring out the best in us. It is one which defines our role in the world, and how we think we can contribute as a nation to our own well-being, and to that of the world. It is our duty to lift the standard of debate befitting the enormity of the decision.
I will be voting to remain, I have been and will be out campaigning to secure what I am convinced is the best future for this country and, indeed, the European Union. This is not a time for clicktivism. If you really care about Britain's future in Europe, volunteer in the next couple of days, get out the vote, challenge arguments, convince family members and friends. It's going to be, to quote a British hero who recognised the importance of European co-operation, the nearest run thing you ever saw in your life. Leave nothing on the field come June 23rd.
Last edited by a moderator:
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