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Cops abusing restraining.

Lakotiz

Banned
Lately there has been a lot of PCSO's restraining you straight away. An example could be when you have one of them pinned down and you tell them to drop their shit, and yet they just decide to restrain 2-3 guys within a few seconds, which is quite retarded and unrealistic.

So there should be some rules about when they can restrain you, make it a bit realistic please - Nobody can restrain 3 people in 2 seconds while they got guns pointed at them. If they're dealing with some RDM'er, sure restrain him straight away - But not the god damn people that are trying to get some roleplay going..

Or you could simply just add some kind of progression bar like with repairing cars or w/e so they won't be able restrain you instantly.

I don't know how many roleplay scenarios that has been ruined for me, because some cop thought it was realistic enough to restrain you while you're pointing a gun at him.

 
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Couldn't agree more.

I'd like to see the progress bar for non-tazed people, with a message broadcast to both players (the cop & the "victim") as a person with a LMG is unlikely to simply bend over and accept restrainment so easily. Tazed people sure, instant restrainment.

 
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I have witnessed this by a few people and it I being addressed, please try to remember guys it is a learning curve and while we are trying to get everyone to the same standard it takes time and patience. If you hear of this or witness it first hand give me a shout and we can get it sorted and offending officers trained and whipped.

SI ;) Maratek

 
I'd like to see the progress bar for non-tazed people, with a message broadcast to both players (the cop & the "victim") as a person with a LMG is unlikely to simply bend over and accept restrainment so easily. Tazed people sure, instant restrainment.
Yep, it's exactly something like that I have in my mind.

 
i do not support the idea of having a progress bar, because sometimes you need to insta restrain people, let's say trollers or rdm/vdm'ers. It is more a question of getting everyone to the quality of RP we need, and the skills we can't learn people by training sessions, needs to be learned ingame, by interacting with civilians, rebels and trolls.

 
Sadly, lack of time means I won't be able to codify any solution for this, and as Crazyone says, the cops will NEED an instant restraint for RDMers/VDMers or general nutjobs that they are trying to freeze so that admins (if they are online) can ban/kick them (or just put them somewhere out of the public's harm's way, if there are no admins on).

Try as I might, there is now way to automatically detect 'RDMer' versus 'Jay in a particularly good RP mood but excessively (and abnormally) quick today with his shoot-backs'.

So - this will *have* to be resolved by appropriate cop training, and whacking the new blood with truncheons in the mess-hall until they get the message. You're quite right, Lakotiz... they'd be dead if they tried to restrain 3 people in 2 seconds whilst under gunpoint.

However... (and this is the quid pro quo)...

The gangs/rebels/civilians also need to ensure that they don't insta-Kill any cop who happens to be within a country mile of them with a pair of handcuffs. Not accusing anyone involved in this thread, but there are a few people reading it who simply don't like being restrained, ever, and who will quite happily kill the cops as soon as look at them - and this is equally inappropriate.

Particularly, I'm hearing tales of 'I'm running drugs' being used as a blanket excuse to KOS cops lately, since we made it clear that defending your drug consignment was about the only 'server-non-bannable' way to get into a firefight with cops in a greenzone without prior admin approval. However, it's now turning into a general excuse, and in some cases, it's a complete lie. We know who the major culprits are, and we are beginning to log information that will enable us to prove - after the fact - whether you really were running drugs or not. Beware the ban-hammer! I will not tolerate RDM-disguised-as-drug-running, when in fact it's pure BS.

Emphasis should *always* be on roleplay first. Think 'realistic'. Then think 'allow for menus locking out speech', 'allow for slow typist', and 'allow a bit more for good grace'. This is not a game purely about earning money or shooting people - it's supposed to be about banter, rivalry, outwitting, escaping, jolly japes and wheezes. It's meant to be fun. KOS is not fun; neither is instant restraint without probable cause. Everything cuts both ways.

 
I have to admit that I do try and kill every cop that starts to persue me because I know for a fact when i try and role play my way out of a situation it will end with me being insta tazed and jailed or fined, it's got to the point where both parties have evolved into money driven scroungers with different rule changes and law changes.

Only way to settle this KOS and insta taze/restrain is for both civ-cop and rebel-cop to work together in the role play and stop caring about loosing money or making an arrest just for the bounty...

 
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Sometimes you rebels make my head hurt...

You are yet again attempting to limit the passive or otherwise non lethal ways we can otherwise take you out...Causing more role play when we take you to prison etc.

Fact of the matter is nerfing or otherwise making cops unable to restrain someone fast may limit roleplay and goes back to the thing ive said before, weld have to use lethal more, do you want that?

While I agree that restraining 3 people alone in 2 seconds can be considered unrealistic but on the other side, how the hell can a cop restrain 3 presumably armed people aiming their weapons at him not at least fill the said cop with lead before hand, it seems a little unrealistic that you cant press a trigger in my mind :D

 
If you are outnumbered and in a situation where there are multiple guys aiming weapons at you and you start restraining people, it's essentially power-game. Some serious role-play communities handle this with a /roll system, the players in any given situation roll dice and whoever has the higher number has the advantage and can move first, this eliminates power-game for the most part but this is perhaps too serious for an ArmA 3 community. 

 
Sometimes you rebels make my head hurt...

You are yet again attempting to limit the passive or otherwise non lethal ways we can otherwise take you out...Causing more role play when we take you to prison etc.

Fact of the matter is nerfing or otherwise making cops unable to restrain someone fast may limit roleplay and goes back to the thing ive said before, weld have to use lethal more, do you want that?

While I agree that restraining 3 people alone in 2 seconds can be considered unrealistic but on the other side, how the hell can a cop restrain 3 presumably armed people aiming their weapons at him not at least fill the said cop with lead before hand, it seems a little unrealistic that you cant press a trigger in my mind :D
Well in that 3 armed rebels scenario, I think the rebels would expect the cop to surrender and not flash about restraining, so wouldn't feel the need to shoot as the intimidation should be enough. People need to value their lives for this to become more common, both rebels and cops.

Saying that, I've never been restrained by Officer Jet Li myself. I must be lucky in the calibre of RPing cops I meet on Altis.

 
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Well in that 3 armed rebels scenario, I think the rebels would expect the cop to surrender and not flash about restraining, so wouldn't feel the need to shoot as the intimidation should be enough. People need to value their lives for this to become more common, both rebels and cops.

Saying that, I've never been restrained by Officer Jet Li myself. I must be lucky in the calibre of RPing cops I meet on Altis.
Indeed you would, but fact of the matter is that the cop cant fear his life e.g. Fear Roleplay, if the life is not in danger since he can commit to the action of restraining all three of you, there are no rules or advise against doing this, so in reality it can happen sadly, Although a cop shouldn't be alone really, even if his team gets under fire go out shooting ild say unless I was completely screwed.

EDIT: Also sometimes pure reaction/Insistint can take over sometimes resulting in them just spamming R or twitch firing which can happen allot.

 
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I have witnessed this by a few people and it I being addressed, please try to remember guys it is a learning curve and while we are trying to get everyone to the same standard it takes time and patience. If you hear of this or witness it first hand give me a shout and we can get it sorted and offending officers trained and whipped.

SI ;) Maratek
I've actually brought this issue up at that meeting we had recently. This was before the new drug dealer rules as I stated. In our instance the PCSO did it after the hostage situation was already established and moved around Athira,so we put him down like a rabid dog. Like I said before we asked for the PCSO and a higher ranking cop to come into our TS to explain what he did was wrong and he was praised by the higher ranking police officer and later on did it again immediately so we killed him and sought further reasons to kill him when encountered. I advise spreading the word to higher ranking officers as well so this behavior is also not encouraged.

 
i do not support the idea of having a progress bar, because sometimes you need to insta restrain people, let's say trollers or rdm/vdm'ers.
OK, that makes sense. Progress bar outside of green zones maybe? ;)

Indeed you would, but fact of the matter is that the cop cant fear his life e.g. Fear Roleplay, if the life is not in danger since he can commit to the action of restraining all three of you, there are no rules or advise against doing this, so in reality it can happen sadly, Although a cop shouldn't be alone really, even if his team gets under fire go out shooting ild say unless I was completely screwed.

EDIT: Also sometimes pure reaction/Insistint can take over sometimes resulting in them just spamming R or twitch firing which can happen allot.
3 armed rebels pointing big ass guns at him would constitute a life being in danger in my book. Just because you guys pay nothing for equipment doesn't mean you shouldn't fear your life. When I die, it barely scratches my bank balace, but if I'm surrounded by cops in an unwinnable situation I still lay down my arms and surrender.

I've been restrained by CSO Jet Li, nay, The fucking Flash more times than I can count, with him zig zagging at lightning speed towards me then he has the cheek to tell me he's done nothing wrong and tries to give me a ticket and get vehicles crushed. This actually happened when we had someone surrounded 3 to 1 and instead of just backing down he used this method to get us all. You try shooting someone at full sprint zig zagging around at point blank - there is a reason this is called TROLLING if we do it to anyone.

Luckily Maratek was on hand for a couple of incidents when it happened to me and sorted it out and calmed me down; but I no longer play nice with CSO's that do this, it's the most infuriating thing after being spam tazed and it drives my anger to Hulk levels.

As a side note; yes it should come down to RP like Ed has said, but unfortunatly the RP is still pretty lacking in game (not just on the cop side)

& TJ. You have a bit of a cheek saying rebels moan alot, think about this from our side and realise how stupid things like this is.

 
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I get that cops need this for all sorts of reasons and it's okay.  But this is becoming a common behavior that for all the others cases where it's not needed ends RP.

Indeed you would, but fact of the matter is that the cop cant fear his life e.g. Fear Roleplay, if the life is not in danger since he can commit to the action of restraining all three of you, there are no rules or advise against doing this, so in reality it can happen sadly, Although a cop shouldn't be alone really, even if his team gets under fire go out shooting ild say unless I was completely screwed.

EDIT: Also sometimes pure reaction/Insistint can take over sometimes resulting in them just spamming R or twitch firing which can happen allot.
I would like to see you in real life running towards three rebels pointing a gun at your face and telling you to drop on the ground and try to put them in handcuffs.

In the last two days I've been insta-restrained twice in a situation where the cop was 4v1 and 3v1.  What follows an insta-restrain is simple, it's not RP, it's just the cop death.

Unfortunately, if the cops keep doing this, the only thing it will bring will be rebels shooting cops on sight when they are getting too close to you.  But then you'll call that "RDM" of course.

The RP ends at insta-restraining.

 
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I get that cops need this for all sorts of reasons and it's okay.  But this is becoming a common behavior that for all the others cases where it's not needed ends RP.

I would like to see you in real life running towards three rebels pointing a gun at your face and telling you to drop on the ground and try to put them in handcuffs.

In the last two days I've been insta-restrained twice in a situation where the cop was 4v1 and 3v1.  What follows an insta-restrain is simple, it's not RP, it's just the cop death.

Unfortunately, if the cops keep doing this, the only thing it will bring will be rebels shooting cops on sight when they are getting too close to you.  But then you'll call that "RDM" of course.

The RP ends at insta-restraining.

You already shoot us on sight so really there isnt much difference rofl

 
As I said... there will be NO progress-bar on the restraining. Sorry.

I am considering another strategy, however. I have been for a few days, but I can't promise or give any timelines as to when it might materialise, or even if it will.

I'd like for 'registration checking' (of people) to be do-able WITHOUT restraint being necessary. IMHO, this would enable full identification of a person, plus licence-checking, plus wanted-status-checking all one in (progress-barred) hit. The person would not be required to stand still - just be the initial cursor-target; in this respect, the progress-bar would be different to vehicle-checking or repairing, which require the 'target' and the 'do-er' to stay within a range. It would be equivalent to a cop calling up the PNC on his radio, and receiving the response over his headset/earpiece. He could still run after a perp if needs be, without cancelling the check. Of course, if a perp runs away during a check he is still fair game, but the cop will be somewhat delayed in getting out his taser or aiming a shot if he has the registration-menu up still. But once free of that, he's got the scope to arrest the perp either by knockdown, tase or restraint, whichever is the most appropriate at the time, with little or no verbals... because the fecker is on the run, clearly. RP is established by now. Tasing *should* always be announced, but tbh, it's not always going to be prudent to do so, if Harry Hardnut is already half-way down the street and making like Usain Bolt.

The point of not requiring a restraint just for registration/licence checking is that it means the perp still has an opportunity to legitimately RP his way out of the situation. Ok, if the licences are going to come back bad, or show a wanted sheet as long as your arm, then it's going to be hard to RP out of it, and running MIGHT be a better option. But if your licences/wanted-status are currently clean (even if you have a lorry load of drugs or an illegal carbine in your bag) then there is much less chance of there being 'probable cause' for a full search. The perp MAY get away without being searched or restrained, if he plays his cards right. Obviously, if he is stroppy, rude, or in a very obvious hotspot with a very suspicious vehicle at a curious time of night, then perhaps he'll be searched under that rule, but at least he has an opportunity to play for time, choose his moment while the cop is distracted by the reg-check, and elect to follow a non-KOS strategy, and preserve both his life and the cop's.

I'd also like to introduce a 'request search' mode rather like the ticketing mode - the cops can ASK the civs (without being restrained) whether they'll submit to a search. If they answer yes on their menu, the search physically starts (in much the same way as it does now). If they move away mid-search, it fails, but they get made wanted for obstruction. If the cops moves away, it just fails, and has to be asked again. If the perp replies NO to a search request, the cop cannot ask again, but must decide whether he wishes to restrain the subject - i.e. he must have probable cause. The subject can then only be searched whilst in restraint, like it is now.

In essence, I want to see if we can avoid restraining people too quickly in the sequence. People in the UK are not routinely cuffed during PNC checks, and not even during searches, if they are polite and calm. Obviously if they are raving morons, they'll be cuffed pretty quickly at any stage, but at the moment in Altis, it is a requirement to restrain before any of the 'casual banter' involved in checking someone out can even start. I think this is the chief cause of raised temperatures and 'kill rather than be restrained' stances. I'd like to lose it, therefore.

 
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As I said... there will be NO progress-bar on the restraining. Sorry.

I am considering another strategy, however. I have been for a few days, but I can't promise or give any timelines as to when it might materialise, or even if it will.

I'd like for 'registration checking' (of people) to be do-able WITHOUT restraint being necessary. IMHO, this would enable full identification of a person, plus licence-checking, plus wanted-status-checking all one in (progress-barred) hit. The person would not be required to stand still - just be the initial cursor-target; in this respect, the progress-bar would be different to vehicle-checking or repairing, which require the 'target' and the 'do-er' to stay within a range. It would be equivalent to a cop calling up the PNC on his radio, and receiving the response over his headset/earpiece. He could still run after a perp if needs be, without cancelling the check. Of course, if a perp runs away during a check he is still fair game, but the cop will be somewhat delayed in getting out his taser or aiming a shot if he has the registration-menu up still. But once free of that, he's got the scope to arrest the perp either by knockdown, tase or restraint, whichever is the most appropriate at the time, with little or no verbals... because the fecker is on the run, clearly. RP is established by now. Tasing *should* always be announced, but tbh, it's not always going to be prudent to do so, if Harry Hardnut is already half-way down the street and making like Usain Bolt.

The point of not requiring a restraint just for registration/licence checking is that it means the perp still has an opportunity to legitimately RP his way out of the situation. Ok, if the licences are going to come back bad, or show a wanted sheet as long as your arm, then it's going to be hard to RP out of it, and running MIGHT be a better option. But if your licences/wanted-status are currently clean (even if you have a lorry load of drugs or an illegal carbine in your bag) then there is much less chance of there being 'probable cause' for a full search. The perp MAY get away without being searched or restrained, if he plays his cards right. Obviously, if he is stroppy, rude, or in a very obvious hotspot with a very suspicious vehicle at a curious time of night, then perhaps he'll be searched under that rule, but at least he has an opportunity to play for time, choose his moment while the cop is distracted by the reg-check, and elect to follow a non-KOS strategy, and preserve both his life and the cop's.

I'd also like to introduce a 'request search' mode rather like the ticketing mode - the cops can ASK the civs (without being restrained) whether they'll submit to a search. If they answer yes on their menu, the search physically starts (in much the same way as it does now). If they move away mid-search, it fails, but they get made wanted for obstruction. If the cops moves away, it just fails, and has to be asked again. If the perp replies NO to a search request, the cop cannot ask again, but must decide whether he wishes to restrain the subject - i.e. he must have probable cause. The subject can then only be searched whilst in restraint, like it is now.

In essence, I want to see if we can avoid restraining people too quickly in the sequence. People in the UK are not routinely cuffed during PNC checks, and not even during searches, if they are polite and calm. Obviously if they are raving morons, they'll be cuffed pretty quickly at any stage, but at the moment in Altis, it is a requirement to restrain before any of the 'casual banter' involved in checking someone out can even start. I think this is the chief cause of raised temperatures and 'kill rather than be restrained' stances. I'd like to lose it, therefore.
This might work half of the time. Which in my opinion is better than what we have now.

 
I have also experienced an incident of abuse with the restraint. Me and a friend had just delivered the last batch of cocaine, and we run straight into a PCSO. We communicate instead of opening fire but meanwhile he just circles us and restrains us in 2-3 seconds.
Felt lame.

 
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