Blasting charge & Cops

[Supermoosey]

It's fairly obvious they are breaking police rules, but rarely if ever are things done unless someone on the rebel side records an action they have no way of knowing is happening or not normal and bringing it to the PCC. So the problem is compounded and will continue to happen until proper training is implemented for it and people are really taught that running into the bank like that is stupid, still happens though.

Like I posted a few post above. If people are running like headless chicken into the compound to repair the vault, there is something wrong with it. They are breaking police rules.

Edit: I will repeat what I've said a few post above.

You're stating that running into the compound like 'headless chickens' only to repair the vault is wrong and is not against the rules. However they are breaking the police rule: "Valueing your life". They are also breaking a server rules:

10D) Police must keep a high level of role play at all times. Police are not admins so do not say "I am reporting you", there is a similar rule for civilians and other factions on the server.

I did say their wasn't a rule, thanks for reading that part, I'm saying, running in, with no regard for their life, with the sole intention of repairing the vault is in itself a fairly spiteful action that a lot of people encourage and needs to be cut out.

 

[Dylan]

See from reading through this there is a massive split in what can and can't be done and whether it is fair or not. I'm glad about what you say droge but not all the highers in the police agree if you check in accordance with the last police meeting (if minutes are still done question on vault) where it was stated it is allowed to be done. 

A few days ago I was told that it wad allowed by some police officers that said high ups in the police said it was allowed.

For this very reason is why I bring it to the admins, as 2 / 3 CSIs think it is OK to do. 

If it is bought to the PCC for value your life, yes I can imagine you would do something droge but the police officers response would be : 'we were told we can do it in the police meeting'... which then, imo isn't there fault.. is it really worth pccing it?

For this reason I would like to get wilco cardoso stwph or ciaran to overrule it as it is completely wrong and I'm glad you see that it is droge and respect you for what you are saying. I also think that Atleast 3/4s of the police force think it is wrong.

Also droge like I said I respect that you've posted what you have posted and I'm not trying to be a knob but the last bank op I was in it was apologised for by one of the high ranking officers, but as stated above nothing would have been said as, and I quote the officers in the liason room at the time "we've been told by CSI Fuel to lock the vault as fast as we can". 

Due to the fact it is a CSI saying it is why I am bringing this to the admins attention as this is a complete bs rule.

For rebels coming back to the bank... mhm if this has been over ruled then gg but imo neither cops nor rebels should be able to return til the gold transportation stage. 

Sorry for typos on phone **

Hi,

To my concern! When it come to a Bank Operation, the gunfight and all hostilities should come to a complete stop before evening repairing the Vault. Theres also a socalled 3 minute rule we are obligated to follow too, before anything would be repaired.

I have never witness the accusations your bringing up concerning a Robbery at the HM bank. Low and high Command are pretty strict when it comes to repairing the bank and make sure everyone attending the robbery follow orders. We Triple check to make sure the Firefight is over, before even touching our tools to repair the vault. 

I understand your frustration when this type of topic is brought up by a player playing as a Rebel.

Also I wouldnt mind increasing the timer like Droge said: 2 minutes or something, but thats a Admin choice to make and discuss.

I will also spread the word concerning this topic, with my fellow partners in the Police Department.

DSGT INFO

aga thanks for responding but I have clarified with an academy high ranking officer that there is no 3 min rule in the handbook for it.

 

[Droge Worst]

@DylanS

You're saying that I'm saying something, denying what is said in the police meeting, but that's not true. 

This is what said in the police meeting: 'It's okay to lock the vault if other police officers are still fighting outside of the bank, when other officers have the compound secure.' Acording to Bobmarley's post. 

I'm saying that if an officer is running into the bank whilst he knows that the bank is not clear or he knows that there are still rebels in the compound, it's breaking the police rule: "Valuing of life". 

So some of the statements you make in the post above are not valid. 

Also: if an CSI is saying: "Lock the vault ASAP", doesn't mean that officers have to run in like a headless chicken and only aim for the vault. Misinterpretations of orders do happen.

 

[Ben_Banned]

I don't even understand how you can justify it being "allowed" regardless of what any CSI says the CSI of the Police force is not an admin (Disregarding Neo) and therefore not above the server rules, nobody is.

If your CSI told you to go into the green zone and kill everyone you see would you? Probably not. 

It is basic common sense which rule this falls under. 

2D) Using known exploits such as looting dead bodies, any duplication of items, duplication of money, using the Anti-VDM script to regain full health, landing on the roof of drug processors, working with Bounty hunters to exploit money from the wanted system, using the ‘Flip Vehicle’ feature outside normal usage (Punishment is a permanent ban without appeal)

Even though locking up the vault isn't stated in there specifically there are a lot of things that aren't.

The vault has just been blown apart, forget repairing the vault you're going to need a new one, If you look at it this way it's rather silly.

A bank which was most probably built to be a bank and the vault was a major part of the construction and not something that has just been put in there, a vault containing over 30 Millions worth of gold is not going to be easily repaired after being blown up, you're going to have to go through construction, transferring the gold to a new vault and so on, you can't simply just blowtorch it back together.

We have 3 minute rules for Impounding and Scrapping why not the vault as well after 3 minutes that shots have been fired and it's confirmed that the area is clear the vault can be repaired.

It is already hard enough that the Police are allowed to return to the bank after their NLR and we're all on 1 life, we are on a timer we have to load the trucks and  get them out while we're still fighting with the Police all it takes is one officer to rush the building hide in the vault room and repair it, it takes 45 seconds, the last time the vault was locked on us in combat most of the Police involved in defending the bank just pulled out because they knew the vault had been locked.

This is a serious issue and it's happened 2 times out of the past 4 bank operations we've done.

 

[Lucas]

Let's be honest, you don't repair a vault when It gets blown up, you switch It out (and probably upgrade It to a new better one). So you have to transfer the gold to another safe place, then blow out the wall to be able to change the vault, and then put the gold into the new vault.. And I am pretty sure that does not take 30 seconds. But still this Is still a game, and there Is things that are not possible. So If we look at what I said before logically the police should not be able to lock the vault up in middle of combat.

 

[Busterguy]

As a rebel robbing the bank its your responsiblity to protect the vault. As cops its our job to secure it. So if you leave it unprotected then of course we are going to repair it.

Its not breaking rules, so untill a rule is made then the police will continue to do this.

 

[Zinder]

When i was at the bank yesterday this happend again i was rp me self as a reporter from the BBC news and was in the bank facility taking in action pictures for the "times of altis newspapper" 

shot were flying around 2 officers reparing the vault one off them were Kazza, cant say 100% if it was kazza that did it but he/she was the only one at the vault when i came in for a sneak peak as a reporter looking for some bars for my new camera equipment ( cost alot these days ) 

i dont wanna point out players but this is crap like majority here thinks aswell, hope we can find a solution for it 

good point @DylanS

 

[Frettie]

When i was at the bank yesterday this happend again i was rp me self as a reporter from the BBC news and was in the bank facility taking in action pictures for the "times of altis newspapper" 

shot were flying around 2 officers reparing the vault one off them were Kazza, cant say 100% if it was kazza that did it but he/she was the only one at the vault when i came in for a sneak peak as a reporter looking for some bars for my new camera equipment ( cost alot these days ) 

i dont wanna point out players but this is crap like majority here thinks aswell, hope we can find a solution for it 

good point @DylanS

Lets not start posting names on who has done what. You even say that you don't want to point out players, but you still did. Lets keep this topic to what it originally was clarifying if it is exploiting to fix the vault while in combat or it is allowed.

 

[Dylan]

As a rebel robbing the bank its your responsiblity to protect the vault. As cops its our job to secure it. So if you leave it unprotected then of course we are going to repair it.

Its not breaking rules, so untill a rule is made then the police will continue to do this.

I am saying this isn't fair and doing it when combat is on is exploiting and failing to value your life. 

Thankfully steph had passed this onto Mr cardoso so hopefully he stops this as zin said it happened again and it's startin to piss everyone off

I completely understand where you are coming from I think "Value your Life" applies to this situation perfectly. No person would ever run into a bank to repair a vault (Keep in mind that you oog can't just repair it with one click) while there is still Rebels inside of it. Especially because most of the time those people are heavily armed and IMO you COULD class this as fail RP. I will pass this Thread on to Mr. Cardoso / Wilco / Ciaran because I honestly think this is an issue. Because it is simply unfair and also kind of powergaming. 

To everyone else comenting on this: Make sure to keep the Thread clean. I do NOT want to see any sort of insults or anything like that. There will be a Warning Point issued if I witness that kind of behaviour. No GIF's. No Memes. Just constructive Feedback. Tyvm.

I know it's been a day or so but any update?

Thanks 

 

[Walt]

Surprised this is still an ongoing issue. Really needs an input from Admins immediately.

There is no way to justify this. We are not repairmen. We do not have blow torches. We do not carry spare materials to rebuild a vault. A vault requires technical elements as well I imagine. This is a serious RP server. 

On the other hand, I will say, although this is currently allowed, I have not seen it occurring and I can honestly say I know a lot of Police who wouldn't allow this to occur...

Regarding Supermooseys' comment on Rebels returning...it once again boils down to rules being overturned and not explained. I personally think this is a serious issue and one that needs fixing. Rule changes directly effect Roleplay and it's sad to see how so many rules are privy to different understandings. I mean...how does it work? People getting banned because stuff isn't fully explained...

It wasn't so long ago myself and Neo made a temp rule to cut the bank op into 2 sections and make it one life per section. once that was agreed I spoke to heads of gangs who agreed upon it and spread the word...and then it got overturned, but there was no public mention of it.

 

[Elakin]

I've been told in the last few days that there's nothing against rebels returning, it'd be nice if there's some clarity, as I think, that if Cops are allowed to return, it should be equal across the board.

When I was a cop I found that the vault wasn't under a 3 minute rule ridiculous and in my early days in the cops, enforced one without it being a rule, obviously after a while it was found out I was doing it and it was stopped, insta repair returned.

I really think an overhaul of the bank is needed from both sides, how police have to approach it and how the rebels can interact with it. Dylan is hitting the nail on the head with his point.

Whenever I mention the first part, I get the answer 'The police force is huge, and by returning, in RP, they're just ANOTHER officer as there will be hundreds of officers in each police constabulary'. This is fine, but who is anyone here to say that a rebel group/organisation doesn't have hundreds of members? or at least enough to send more to a bank (return when you die)? I also think it needs to be edited and straightened out in the rules as to whether or not either force, rebel or police, can return.

As for the repairing, I believe you should have to wait for combat to end. Who's going to sit then, place their little rubber bullet gun to the side, put on a faceguard and a blowtorch and sit there happily repairing a vault with armed rebels able to come in and blow your head off at any given moment? Disposing of the threat should be the priority, not welding a vault back together mid gunfight.

 

[Mycaelis]

I'm surprised there is so much debate about this.. I honestly thought the rule was simple, as Elakin said.

Once combat or RP (in this sense, combat is RP)...ends.

For a Cop, I think this means having to do a quick sweep of the building / checking windows.
Maybe even use direct to say the vault is being repaired, so if anyone has an issue they can shout something.
If everything looks clear, then lock / seal it up.

From a roleplay sense, once combat / RP ends, you can just play it out that you contacted the Vault Repair team who've moved in and secured / repaired the vault. 

 

[Dylan]

I'm surprised there is so much debate about this.. I honestly thought the rule was simple, as Elakin said.

Once combat or RP (in this sense, combat is RP)...ends.

Honestly from a cop perspective, I think this means having to do a quick sweep of the building / checking windows.
If everything looks clear, then lock / seal it up.

From a roleplay sense, once combat / RP ends, you can just play it out that you contacted the Vault Repair team who've moved in and secured / repaired the vault. 

Yes!  

Just waiting for an admin to probably say 3 mins after combat you can lock the vault... which yea is common sense 

 

[PeachMaster]

So after 2 pages and alot of words used, we have come to the conclusion: COMMON SENSE?

Yeah? Fine? Good for everybody?

Right, who's up for some peaches?!