Tourist Man
Member
I'm just laughing ''HAHA'' -.'
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ATWA Doing RDM?
- Thread starter dragonfly
- Start date
TinyBigJacko
Management
Management
Dev Team
Los Santos Police Command
Los Santos NHS
Los Santos Firefighter
Gruppe 6
Judge
- Location
- Vinewood Casino Management Office
I'm struggling with this. Bigtime.
The issues are (for me) - cops are engaging themselves in situations where they are exposed, or in close-quarters, with a known rebel group, and getting shot for their troubles. In itself, that isn't automatically RDM. It depends on the pretext.
The ATWA group seem to have about three guys who speak English (or even speak at all) which makes life VERY difficult, because clearly any VERBAL Roleplay is going to be pretty limited or non-existent. I would shy away from demanding that all players must physically speak English, though this is the primary language on this server (I would sooner enforce a law that said nobody can roleplay with text-only, before I enforced a language rule... I'd rather someone grunted a 'No' than texted it, anytime, even if that's all they said!).
If I'm really honest, I'm getting sick of this whole 'encounter-RDM' calling that's going on. In my book, the RDMs that I am most concerned about stopping are the random nutjobs who surf up on the server on a Friday night (or whenever), out of the blue, and who haven't read any rules, and just go about splatting people with quadbikes or picking off the residents of Kavala endlessly. These are truly not roleplaying (even though if challenged they will usually come up with some lame backstory like "I'm a mental patient" or "My wife just left me so I'm going Columbine on the town" - none of which are acceptable, and will not prevent them getting banned).
But what I'm seeing in this video are a lot of detailed, long-running engagements, in which the 'Roleplay' has been previously set up or established by previous encounters with this gang of rebels. I'm hearing a lot of cop-chat on TS, but not *that* much seemingly directed in-game via VON (I expect some is there, but I really haven't got the time to do audio-forensics to the point of picking apart the whole damned video and analysing exactly who said what to whom and when - life is too fucking short). Similarly, there is little or no talking on the part of ATWA crew, but a lot of the time, it's possibly because they are quite far away, or in vehicles, or the recording cops are, and so on.
I think we pretty much have to accept that the gang will virtually always refuse to be taken into custody, and will protect (with lethal force) any of their members who are caught. This puts the cops in a very tricky situation, because they have rules which disallow them from simply shooting on sight. To be fair, the ATWA crew should have a similar rule - no shoot-to-kill on first shot, no kill-on-sight, and start TALKING (even if it is just simple phrases like "we no surrender" or "we kill you all - thirty seconds leave"). At least then the cops have some clue whether the encounter is going to go to lethal force soon.
It's always difficult to resolve this kind of thing, because what with the language difficulties, and the inability for cops to speak in menus, and the speed with which these kinds of encounter unravel into mayhem, it's impossible to come up with a solid ruleset that will always work. If one side is barred from shooting immediately, and the other isn't, it's going to be pretty one-sided and pisspoor. If one side plays fair and doesn't engage or elevate to lethal force without warning, and the other side remains silent and just opens up with headshots, it's going to get old very fast.
The point is, it's about giving SPACE for roleplay. I am concerned that the ATWA crew (for whatever reason) are too quick to open up and are simply not talking. However, I am also concerned that the cops - who KNOW the ATWA crew are mostly foreigners and prone to trigger-happiness - are putting themselves in serious harm's way a lot of times, by dint of their own engagement strategies.
Neither side is wholly right, nor wholly wrong... but both sides have the CHOICE to make this better. It is impossible for the admins to call this one, or to make perfect rules. I could just ban people who don't talk. Would that help? Maybe, but it wouldn't really be fair, if they didn't speak good English or were frightened to use VON. I could just ban foreigners whose English is poor. Would that make us popular? No, and I'd lose a lot of new friends to boot. I could just give the cops carte-blanche to engage in 'KNOWN PROBLEM' groups (like ATWA) without a word of roleplay themselves, and have the cops just act like an execution-squad when they meet these groups. Would that solve anything? Doubtful, because it'd just turn into an all-out war, and others would very likely be caught in the crossfire, and it would escalate into other groups.
So. What can I do?
I'm going to warn both sides to sort this out for themselves, fast, and stop bitching like babies about each other's tactics and approach. ATWA - learn to speak - even simple responses. It's pretty fucking obvious that certain 'pat-phrases' like "WE NO SURRENDER" or "WE GIVE UP" would sometimes help indicate your intentions, and MIGHT save a lot of bother. Please at least TRY to speak -at ALL levels of your gang, or you're going to continually create problems for people (and admins)... and I won't like that.
COPS, on the other hand. Use your fucking loaf. If you go charging into a bunch of rebels with a hunter, or start encircling them with vehicles, or shooting on their escaping cars, the outcome is already roleplayed, whatever it might turn out to be. If you want to entrap the gang and take them into custody, you HAVE to watch your backs better. You WILL have to ensure you've established communications with them to find out whether they will comply or attack, and you'll have to do this from a secure position before you expose yourself. Yes, it slows everything down, and they might try to escape, but if they do, then you're safe enough to engage - they're 'roleplaying' by attempting to escape, so bugger any three-minute rules, you have good reason to tase, use stingers, box-in, even go lethal, if they pose a grave danger to innocent civilians, in order to stop them, and they can't really complain.
But please... all of you, STOP WHINING. It's boring me to tears, and you can resolve this yourselves. It's not 'random deathmatching'. It's deathmatching, sure - but because you ALL know the backstory and the setup, it's NOT RANDOM. If you want the RP to improve, you'll HAVE to do it by agreement. If they (ATWA) will not verbally roleplay, then clearly, they'll be responded-to by dint of their ACTIONS. I know as cops you can't just walk away and leave them to whatever mayhem they're about to commit (or shouldn't, at least), but keep your expectations real. If they are not talking, assume they are hostile, and clean the scum off the streets in as safe and professional way as possible. You shouldn't get any complaints from them... they can't talk, after all. Ahem!
The issues are (for me) - cops are engaging themselves in situations where they are exposed, or in close-quarters, with a known rebel group, and getting shot for their troubles. In itself, that isn't automatically RDM. It depends on the pretext.
The ATWA group seem to have about three guys who speak English (or even speak at all) which makes life VERY difficult, because clearly any VERBAL Roleplay is going to be pretty limited or non-existent. I would shy away from demanding that all players must physically speak English, though this is the primary language on this server (I would sooner enforce a law that said nobody can roleplay with text-only, before I enforced a language rule... I'd rather someone grunted a 'No' than texted it, anytime, even if that's all they said!).
If I'm really honest, I'm getting sick of this whole 'encounter-RDM' calling that's going on. In my book, the RDMs that I am most concerned about stopping are the random nutjobs who surf up on the server on a Friday night (or whenever), out of the blue, and who haven't read any rules, and just go about splatting people with quadbikes or picking off the residents of Kavala endlessly. These are truly not roleplaying (even though if challenged they will usually come up with some lame backstory like "I'm a mental patient" or "My wife just left me so I'm going Columbine on the town" - none of which are acceptable, and will not prevent them getting banned).
But what I'm seeing in this video are a lot of detailed, long-running engagements, in which the 'Roleplay' has been previously set up or established by previous encounters with this gang of rebels. I'm hearing a lot of cop-chat on TS, but not *that* much seemingly directed in-game via VON (I expect some is there, but I really haven't got the time to do audio-forensics to the point of picking apart the whole damned video and analysing exactly who said what to whom and when - life is too fucking short). Similarly, there is little or no talking on the part of ATWA crew, but a lot of the time, it's possibly because they are quite far away, or in vehicles, or the recording cops are, and so on.
I think we pretty much have to accept that the gang will virtually always refuse to be taken into custody, and will protect (with lethal force) any of their members who are caught. This puts the cops in a very tricky situation, because they have rules which disallow them from simply shooting on sight. To be fair, the ATWA crew should have a similar rule - no shoot-to-kill on first shot, no kill-on-sight, and start TALKING (even if it is just simple phrases like "we no surrender" or "we kill you all - thirty seconds leave"). At least then the cops have some clue whether the encounter is going to go to lethal force soon.
It's always difficult to resolve this kind of thing, because what with the language difficulties, and the inability for cops to speak in menus, and the speed with which these kinds of encounter unravel into mayhem, it's impossible to come up with a solid ruleset that will always work. If one side is barred from shooting immediately, and the other isn't, it's going to be pretty one-sided and pisspoor. If one side plays fair and doesn't engage or elevate to lethal force without warning, and the other side remains silent and just opens up with headshots, it's going to get old very fast.
The point is, it's about giving SPACE for roleplay. I am concerned that the ATWA crew (for whatever reason) are too quick to open up and are simply not talking. However, I am also concerned that the cops - who KNOW the ATWA crew are mostly foreigners and prone to trigger-happiness - are putting themselves in serious harm's way a lot of times, by dint of their own engagement strategies.
Neither side is wholly right, nor wholly wrong... but both sides have the CHOICE to make this better. It is impossible for the admins to call this one, or to make perfect rules. I could just ban people who don't talk. Would that help? Maybe, but it wouldn't really be fair, if they didn't speak good English or were frightened to use VON. I could just ban foreigners whose English is poor. Would that make us popular? No, and I'd lose a lot of new friends to boot. I could just give the cops carte-blanche to engage in 'KNOWN PROBLEM' groups (like ATWA) without a word of roleplay themselves, and have the cops just act like an execution-squad when they meet these groups. Would that solve anything? Doubtful, because it'd just turn into an all-out war, and others would very likely be caught in the crossfire, and it would escalate into other groups.
So. What can I do?
I'm going to warn both sides to sort this out for themselves, fast, and stop bitching like babies about each other's tactics and approach. ATWA - learn to speak - even simple responses. It's pretty fucking obvious that certain 'pat-phrases' like "WE NO SURRENDER" or "WE GIVE UP" would sometimes help indicate your intentions, and MIGHT save a lot of bother. Please at least TRY to speak -at ALL levels of your gang, or you're going to continually create problems for people (and admins)... and I won't like that.
COPS, on the other hand. Use your fucking loaf. If you go charging into a bunch of rebels with a hunter, or start encircling them with vehicles, or shooting on their escaping cars, the outcome is already roleplayed, whatever it might turn out to be. If you want to entrap the gang and take them into custody, you HAVE to watch your backs better. You WILL have to ensure you've established communications with them to find out whether they will comply or attack, and you'll have to do this from a secure position before you expose yourself. Yes, it slows everything down, and they might try to escape, but if they do, then you're safe enough to engage - they're 'roleplaying' by attempting to escape, so bugger any three-minute rules, you have good reason to tase, use stingers, box-in, even go lethal, if they pose a grave danger to innocent civilians, in order to stop them, and they can't really complain.
But please... all of you, STOP WHINING. It's boring me to tears, and you can resolve this yourselves. It's not 'random deathmatching'. It's deathmatching, sure - but because you ALL know the backstory and the setup, it's NOT RANDOM. If you want the RP to improve, you'll HAVE to do it by agreement. If they (ATWA) will not verbally roleplay, then clearly, they'll be responded-to by dint of their ACTIONS. I know as cops you can't just walk away and leave them to whatever mayhem they're about to commit (or shouldn't, at least), but keep your expectations real. If they are not talking, assume they are hostile, and clean the scum off the streets in as safe and professional way as possible. You shouldn't get any complaints from them... they can't talk, after all. Ahem!
dragonfly
Well-known member
Its so shame that I lead ATWA is almost every member is can't speak English.. Yea I knew how that feel. But I almost be on the command of my crew. In the video, I never be there.. If I was there, the situations are can be different then this.. I almost bored for the police capturing thing is not allowed.. I'm bored for the firing and killing.. Thats because of for several days I was at Kaval and doing suicide RP on the roofs of buildings =))I'm struggling with this. Bigtime.
The issues are (for me) - cops are engaging themselves in situations where they are exposed, or in close-quarters, with a known rebel group, and getting shot for their troubles. In itself, that isn't automatically RDM. It depends on the pretext.
The ATWA group seem to have about three guys who speak English (or even speak at all) which makes life VERY difficult, because clearly any VERBAL Roleplay is going to be pretty limited or non-existent. I would shy away from demanding that all players must physically speak English, though this is the primary language on this server (I would sooner enforce a law that said nobody can roleplay with text-only, before I enforced a language rule... I'd rather someone grunted a 'No' than texted it, anytime, even if that's all they said!).
If I'm really honest, I'm getting sick of this whole 'encounter-RDM' calling that's going on. In my book, the RDMs that I am most concerned about stopping are the random nutjobs who surf up on the server on a Friday night (or whenever), out of the blue, and who haven't read any rules, and just go about splatting people with quadbikes or picking off the residents of Kavala endlessly. These are truly not roleplaying (even though if challenged they will usually come up with some lame backstory like "I'm a mental patient" or "My wife just left me so I'm going Columbine on the town" - none of which are acceptable, and will not prevent them getting banned).
But what I'm seeing in this video are a lot of detailed, long-running engagements, in which the 'Roleplay' has been previously set up or established by previous encounters with this gang of rebels. I'm hearing a lot of cop-chat on TS, but not *that* much seemingly directed in-game via VON (I expect some is there, but I really haven't got the time to do audio-forensics to the point of picking apart the whole damned video and analysing exactly who said what to whom and when - life is too fucking short). Similarly, there is little or no talking on the part of ATWA crew, but a lot of the time, it's possibly because they are quite far away, or in vehicles, or the recording cops are, and so on.
I think we pretty much have to accept that the gang will virtually always refuse to be taken into custody, and will protect (with lethal force) any of their members who are caught. This puts the cops in a very tricky situation, because they have rules which disallow them from simply shooting on sight. To be fair, the ATWA crew should have a similar rule - no shoot-to-kill on first shot, no kill-on-sight, and start TALKING (even if it is just simple phrases like "we no surrender" or "we kill you all - thirty seconds leave"). At least then the cops have some clue whether the encounter is going to go to lethal force soon.
It's always difficult to resolve this kind of thing, because what with the language difficulties, and the inability for cops to speak in menus, and the speed with which these kinds of encounter unravel into mayhem, it's impossible to come up with a solid ruleset that will always work. If one side is barred from shooting immediately, and the other isn't, it's going to be pretty one-sided and pisspoor. If one side plays fair and doesn't engage or elevate to lethal force without warning, and the other side remains silent and just opens up with headshots, it's going to get old very fast.
The point is, it's about giving SPACE for roleplay. I am concerned that the ATWA crew (for whatever reason) are too quick to open up and are simply not talking. However, I am also concerned that the cops - who KNOW the ATWA crew are mostly foreigners and prone to trigger-happiness - are putting themselves in serious harm's way a lot of times, by dint of their own engagement strategies.
Neither side is wholly right, nor wholly wrong... but both sides have the CHOICE to make this better. It is impossible for the admins to call this one, or to make perfect rules. I could just ban people who don't talk. Would that help? Maybe, but it wouldn't really be fair, if they didn't speak good English or were frightened to use VON. I could just ban foreigners whose English is poor. Would that make us popular? No, and I'd lose a lot of new friends to boot. I could just give the cops carte-blanche to engage in 'KNOWN PROBLEM' groups (like ATWA) without a word of roleplay themselves, and have the cops just act like an execution-squad when they meet these groups. Would that solve anything? Doubtful, because it'd just turn into an all-out war, and others would very likely be caught in the crossfire, and it would escalate into other groups.
So. What can I do?
I'm going to warn both sides to sort this out for themselves, fast, and stop bitching like babies about each other's tactics and approach. ATWA - learn to speak - even simple responses. It's pretty fucking obvious that certain 'pat-phrases' like "WE NO SURRENDER" or "WE GIVE UP" would sometimes help indicate your intentions, and MIGHT save a lot of bother. Please at least TRY to speak -at ALL levels of your gang, or you're going to continually create problems for people (and admins)... and I won't like that.
COPS, on the other hand. Use your fucking loaf. If you go charging into a bunch of rebels with a hunter, or start encircling them with vehicles, or shooting on their escaping cars, the outcome is already roleplayed, whatever it might turn out to be. If you want to entrap the gang and take them into custody, you HAVE to watch your backs better. You WILL have to ensure you've established communications with them to find out whether they will comply or attack, and you'll have to do this from a secure position before you expose yourself. Yes, it slows everything down, and they might try to escape, but if they do, then you're safe enough to engage - they're 'roleplaying' by attempting to escape, so bugger any three-minute rules, you have good reason to tase, use stingers, box-in, even go lethal, if they pose a grave danger to innocent civilians, in order to stop them, and they can't really complain.
But please... all of you, STOP WHINING. It's boring me to tears, and you can resolve this yourselves. It's not 'random deathmatching'. It's deathmatching, sure - but because you ALL know the backstory and the setup, it's NOT RANDOM. If you want the RP to improve, you'll HAVE to do it by agreement. If they (ATWA) will not verbally roleplay, then clearly, they'll be responded-to by dint of their ACTIONS. I know as cops you can't just walk away and leave them to whatever mayhem they're about to commit (or shouldn't, at least), but keep your expectations real. If they are not talking, assume they are hostile, and clean the scum off the streets in as safe and professional way as possible. You shouldn't get any complaints from them... they can't talk, after all. Ahem!
They really enjoy when I do RP.. They bored about this shit too. Anyway, If me and my crew disturbed anyone, I apoligize. Sorry..
Liridon
Active member
- Location
- Sweden
The roleplay from the cop in the vehicle @ 1:25 is so poor it's unbelievable. When you see 4 rebels aiming at you, you don't stop the vehicle and watch them (record them), you move to safety and get backup for a arrest. This is such a pointless video..
That guy is a DI, he should know better than this.
That guy is a DI, he should know better than this.
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