(2.7) Baiting - Rule Clarification and change.

[.Jasonnn]

As it stands the rule below doesn't clarify what could and couldn't be classed as baiting! Today a discussion perked up within the Police channels about the likeliness of a rule change being added, however I have decided to come at this in a different direction instead of brining it up to faction commands etc!

(2.7) Baiting - Baiting for the sake of a gunfight is not roleplay. Examples: Flying over someone with a chopper waiting for warning shots to instantly shoot them back, robbing a service station with the intent of a gunfight, etc.

Add a few more examples:

Lockpicking for the sake of being initiated on.

Pinging redzones so people know you're there.

Driving around with MRAPs and Armed Vehicles for the sake of an initiation.

These changes may be little, however it has a big range from all factions and rebels as it's noticeable that the three things above will always spark a gunfight. I can imagine the frag kiddies will downvote and cry about this post, but id love to hear your responses and feedback for something like this. Thanks.  

 

[Gray]

Yeah I think this would be quite helpful as currently it is very vague

 

[Jolly]

When Staff review and action reports (in this case baiting) we don't just go off the examples provided. Every situation is different and it should be fairly obvious to seasoned players what is and is not 'baity' behaviour. It's brilliant to cite more common examples, but the worry is that more and more will follow until no one wants to do anything as they need to check the list of examples to see if their specific action is on it or not. And the more specific your examples, the higher the chances that people will interpret one harmless action as a rulebreak i.e if I'm driving around in an MRAP before an initation is made, does that count as baiting? That example and yourself might say yes and I may disagree. The reason there is an air of vagueness is so people feel like they aren't quite as restricted by all the rules we have. There is a clear enough line between baiting and not baiting. If you feel like you've been baited, you're more than welcome to make a report. Worst that can happen is that it gets denied.

 

[.Jasonnn]

Jolly. Driving around in an MRAP with the intent to be initiated on will be classed as baiting! I'm not saying just driving down the road idly is baiting, im saying that driving around Police/POS/Rebels etc with the MRAP, honking your horn and smoking will bring an initiation your way. Same for using an armed vehicle and shooting up into the air in an attempt to bait individuals to come over so you can rob them etc! My point is valid and as staff I think you of all people should understand this!

 

[Jolly]

Jolly. Driving around in an MRAP with the intent to be initiated on will be classed as baiting! I'm not saying just driving down the road idly is baiting, im saying that driving around Police/POS/Rebels etc with the MRAP, honking your horn and smoking will bring an initiation your way.

But do you see how in that sentence you're proving my point? If the example is 'Driving around with MRAPs and Armed Vehicles for the sake of an initiation.', then almost anyone driving in an MRAP could be classed as baiting if there is a situation. You've already had to further clarify that point to say 'driving around Police/POS/Rebels etc with the MRAP, honking your horn and smoking will bring an initiation your way' and when rules are becoming that specific, that's where things become less about 'creating a fluid RP experience bearing in mind some obvious rules' and more about 'if I do this very specific thing, will I be reported?'.

 

[.Jasonnn]

All rule suggestions have to be further developed, Jolly! It's how this server has gone to improve the rules weve had for the past 7 years! Anything said here will improve my initial suggestion like any other, so yes! If you go around, honking your horn and driving around them to provoke an initiation you will most likely be reported if this is clarified within the rules! And having short rules are the problem here, there isn't enough detail to go off meaning that people will be thinking on whether or not this is baiting, with clarifications in place it will stop this and people will have better RP experiences.

 

[Zeus]

i agree to be honest like when we are robbing a bank obviously its are your advantage to fire the first shot cause you can set up and all of that but like the isttuation today we were having a nice roleplaying bank having a good time we had no intent to even shoot even i when i was set up on an office had rubbers loaded incase and someone just comes up and starts lock picking a car an officer warns him to stop he does it again and again and again then drives off with it wanting us to chase him and stuff like it just gets to the point as police where you get so bored of gun fights that you just log off i mean i get for some people its fun but for others such as the police its getting boring..

thanks for reading what i have written 

have a great rest of your day

yours 

Zeus- 

 

[Nuclear]

Driving around with MRAPs and Armed Vehicles for the sake of an initiation.

So if I decide that I want to go on a joyride with my ifrit and a cop decides to pull me over all of a sudden I'm baiting?

The lockpicking one already falls under baiting even if its not written.

Above is my personal opinion

 

[Zeus]

Not really what we are trying to say as most of the time if your just mining your own business we aren't gonna do anything we are more on about driving past airport over and over to try get a cop to chase you driving through the middle of kav just to get cops to chase you or the worst when they set up and get you to drive after the they you just get shot out your car 

Thanks for taking the time to read this 

Hope you have an amazing day 

Zeus 

 

[Butch]

Pinging redzones so people know you're there.

Let´s just keep redzones away from this shall we? They are finally decent and nothing really needs to change other than a few suggestions for devs not rule changes.

Driving around with MRAPs and Armed Vehicles for the sake of an initiation.

Already falls under common sense / baiting. If you think someone did it report them, you can´t have rules that outline specifically what you can and can not do that just limits peoples fun. Staff can judge wheter or not it´s a rule break just fine.

 

[Nalurah]

Though I understand your point, I think adding more examples will make more people cry baiting when they are just rping. I can imagine many people will start crying baiting when their car is being lockpicked. I fear that something like that, though coming from a good place, will cause more harm than good.

 

[.Jasonnn]

So if I decide that I want to go on a joyride with my ifrit and a cop decides to pull me over all of a sudden I'm baiting?

I have already previously discussed this with Jolly within the responses before your own! However I'll say again,  no. Because you aren't driving around with the intent to gain an initiation, if you are specifically driving around individuals honking your horn, smoking them or shooting up into the air! Yes that would be baiting, however driving around would not. 

The lockpicking one already falls under baiting even if its not written.

Are you saying this from a staff prospective? Or your own? As with the amount of situations I've responded too where an individual has needlessly started to lockpick a vehicle, to then respond that they have friends and allies/ or other faction members in the area and nothing has ever been done about it. If that is the case, I guess I'll be reporting alot more.

Already falls under common sense / baiting. If you think someone did it report them, you can´t have rules that outline specifically what you can and can not do that just limits peoples fun. Staff can judge wheter or not it´s a rule break just fine.

Though I understand your point, I think adding more examples will make more people cry baiting when they are just rping. I can imagine many people will start crying baiting when their car is being lockpicked. I fear that something like that, though coming from a good place, will cause more harm than good.

All I'm saying is to add a few more examples on what could be classed as baiting ^^ As the current rule is pretty vague.

 

[Aethon]

You want to make it a rulebreak to drive mraps?

 

[Nuclear]

Are you saying this from a staff prospective? Or your own?

My own perspective, forgot to to add that bit, but yeah In general all of these things fall into that rule in my opinion already. Putting more examples, just causes more issues and rule play possibility.

All of the above, personal opinion

 

[.Jasonnn]

You want to make it a rulebreak to drive mraps?

I take it you've read nothing within this thread ^^

My own perspective, forgot to to add that bit, but yeah In general all of these things fall into that rule in my opinion already. Putting more examples, just causes more issues and rule play possibility.

All of the above, personal opinion

That's understandable! And I can see what you mean in regards to rule playing, however at the moment I still see the rule as pretty vague and being reported for something you didn't know could possibly be baiting is a bit shitty- and being banned for such could be a deal breaker for newbies on the server etc.

 

[Nuclear]

however at the moment I still see the rule as pretty vague and being reported for something you didn't know could possibly be baiting is a bit shitty- and being banned for such could be a deal breaker for newbies on the server etc.

As soon as you start setting the line people will play around it, i genuinly think the rule is fine as it is. It gives you an example to work with and then you apply common sense for other situations based of it. I think its all fairly common sense, all you got to do is think hmm will this trigger a negative response the would not have happend otherwise? Surely if the anwser is yes, lockpicking a vehicle infront of Police in order to get a chase and getting my tires shot so I can decamp and spray everyone with no roleplay falls under that. (examples)

and yes again personal opinion.

 

[.Jasonnn]

As soon as you start setting the line people will play around it, i genuinly think the rule is fine as it is. It gives you an example to work with and then you apply common sense for other situations based of it. I think its all fairly common sense, all you got to do is think hmm will this trigger a negative response from the person I'm doing this too? Surely if the anwser is yes, lockpicking a vehicle infront of Police in order to get a chase or getting my tires shot so I cna decamp and spray everyone with no roleplay falls under that. (examples)

and yes again personal opinion.

I completely agree with the fact it should be within common sense, however people will work around the rule like you've said, even if there were to be changes! That's why I think the rules should be less vague and just add a bit more detail, I doubt it'll be taken on and im not gonna cry if it doesn't! Just throwing in my 2ct ^^

 

[CodyLtd]

I love to lockpick specialist sporties, because I cannot get sporties myself, so I sadly have to downvote.

 

[.Jasonnn]

I love to lockpick specialist sporties, because I cannot get sporties myself, so I sadly have to downvote.

But when we ask you to stop yall say and I quote "If you knock me out friends and allies in the area will shoot you." ^^ Explain that for me.