- Location
- Taxi Auto Centre
I don't see why not though? If a group has better "shooters" and are more capable at war, why cant they threaten more established gangs?
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15 member gangs discussion
- Thread starter IAaronI
- Start date
Ollie Just
Active member
Arguably and seen before they could. However would you argue its fair for a few weeks/months gang come along with access to guns and drugs to stream role a group that has been here for years. I see how its possible where ex gang members form and is easily possible, however i feel there needs to be some sort of challenge/ risk with fighting a more established gang. Arguably also i see WL gangs as a source to supply no WL gangs in means of guns and drugs. But i still believe that yes a non WL gangs who have a better capability at war should be given the chance to “win” i just believe there needs to be a “risk” or actual weighing up before it happens. Perhaps this 15 cap is what will do it.
One thing id also like to throw out is that this was imposed to stop groups forming simply to “frag” however im wondering if others would agree - wouldnt the smaller groups prioritise “shooters” in essence as they are likely going to need them due to low numbers. I believe the 25 cap allowed a diversity where stronger roleplayers were involved whilst others flourished within the group. This is not to say theres shooters and roleplayers , but i think this change may have a counteractive consequence if not used correctly.
norskov23
Member
- Location
- Copenhagen
The decrease in tablet size is in my opinion the wrong way to add risk to fighting a established gang. Newer gangs will struggle significantly with putting up a fight against established gangs and i don't think that's the right way to do things.
The tablet size immediately makes non-whitelisted gangs objectively weaker than whitelisted gangs. Right. And maybe this will drive non-whitelisted gangs away from beefing and getting into fights but we won't know until things have actually been tested for a while. But maybe we should consider the fact that a lot of non-whitelisted gangs already don't want to beef and in a lot of situations are getting beefs and wars forced on them by whitelisted gangs? And when these beefs get forced on you, especially with the tablet size reduction, majority of the time it's a complete steamroll and the non-whitelisted gang is forced to pay up or give some sleezy apology on Tweedle only for other peoples amusement, and just like that the gang has been ridiculed and chances of them actually making the cut as a whitelisted gang is so, so small. At the end of the day this is the kind of stuff non-whitelisted gangs have to put up with. You will rarely find non-whitelisted gangs worrying about their quality of roleplay, it's almost always a different, whitelisted gang, thats forcing them into corners for a quick paycheck or an ego boost.
In my opinion, the solution to adding risk to fighting should be business-related and not tablet-related. This is fairly logical in my opinion but not at all considered in city when gangs get into beef with each other. If a non-whitelisted gang is in close cooperation with a whitelisted gang say for drug supplying (which would be more relevant if drugs were buffed, take the hint devs), they wouldn't want to beef each other as it wouldn't be in the interest of both parties and would by no means benefit each other. That way gangs would actually try to solve the problem instead of meeting it with war cars and guns.
- Location
- The Netherlands
So if all these whitelisted groups are breaking rules and are not here to roleplay, why is no one reporting them?
Stavik
Do not go gentle into that good night
Management
Staff Team
Legendary Donator
Los Santos Police Command
Gruppe 6
Los Santos Rangers
- Location
- Norway
If the drugs where buffed, take the hint devs?
Expand the narrow vision on «just cocaine» and explore other avenues. Drugs are being looked at from a few different angles and have both great feedback from players doing it and a good dataset returned from values set.
Maybe try and ROLEPLAY your way into the good books of a whitelisted gang to try these things.
AIan
Active member
I see a lot of negative comments against this change, although it is actually a good change where the non-whitelisted gang has to prove themselves that they are here not to frag but to roleplay.
but what they do nowadays is mass recruit shooters from different WL gangs into a non-whitelisted gang and then they go straight into wars. "This is not how it works"
In the past 6 months, I've seen more than 5 non whitelisted gangs, none of them lasted even 2 months in the city, and ended up either disbanded or banned, I wonder why?
but what they do nowadays is mass recruit shooters from different WL gangs into a non-whitelisted gang and then they go straight into wars. "This is not how it works"
In the past 6 months, I've seen more than 5 non whitelisted gangs, none of them lasted even 2 months in the city, and ended up either disbanded or banned, I wonder why?
Bmav
Well-known member
- Location
- Grove Street
To be honest seeing all the drugs work is really good there is bits and bobs that need tweaking mostly price based atleast in my opinion, i think there is one drug specifically that you can't technacly obtain unless you search stuff in bins for an item but besides that everything else is craftable and its only like testing to get it to the sweet spot. I think the biggest issue is really gauging the time it takes to craft a drug the way i see it is for example coke will take you about 20-30 mins to collect the package and about 40 mins to cut the 1000 unrefined and gets you average 80k-100k an hour per 100 cut coke (currently with the buff they got) which is a good balance but the other drugs like Meth, ecstasy, heroin, LSD are still far behind, reason being they all require police risk by robbing a pharmacy which will end up being a highly contested point of interest between crims not to mention the benchs themselves could be prone to robberies which is all good and in RP but the risk reward is still to high for the return for those drugs specifically but as for coke and weed i think they are in the sweet spot atleast in my opinion. The time to craft these drugs is also basically the same as the cocaine process maybe a bit more if you were to produce same amount as the packages give you (even though i heard these changed on what you get from them now).
Hope my message doesn't get confusing, i just like to test stuff and explore the map so i like to do the stuff that takes time to do just for the sake of knowing how to do it.
Stavik
Do not go gentle into that good night
Management
Staff Team
Legendary Donator
Los Santos Police Command
Gruppe 6
Los Santos Rangers
- Location
- Norway
Wich one do you think is not obtainable?
Bmav
Well-known member
- Location
- Grove Street
Ecstasy the pill press you can't really get it unless you search bins from my understanding atleast.
(Either that or i didnt do enough research on it)
Stavik
Do not go gentle into that good night
Management
Staff Team
Legendary Donator
Los Santos Police Command
Gruppe 6
Los Santos Rangers
- Location
- Norway
You can
Everything else you mentioned is valid but a numbers game. We are exploring a rather dusted down part of everything so as i have been open about with the gang leads, we lowball it on purpose.
But working on it!
Ollie Just
Active member
I didn't think of this side and I fully agree. Arguably this cap is a harsh and significant difference between Non-WL and WL. Therefore i would advocate for soemthing like this "In my opinion, the solution to adding risk to fighting should be business-related and not tablet-related" - I also stated this idea in another forum titled "Current state of whitelisted gangs/ groups". During my small time in a Non-WL gang every war we came across was caused by the other party (less i am mistaken however im sure i am not) and i can see where your concerns are where WL gangs will crush the smaller ones - especially in a system known for groups to come and go after a few months. Therefore i would advocate for a serious reconsideration/ discussion of the possible consequences. However i do believe this change tackled the fear of "frag groups". However, since i haven't been around for 10 months, i cannot comment on whether "a lot of non-whitelisted gangs already don't want to beef" but i can see this being very believable as non-WL are simply trying to survive whilst conflict can shut down the entire group within a week.
- Location
- Taxi Auto Centre
I'm looking through this post and constantly seeing things about non whitelisted groups starting beef or disbanding and even a shout about them getting banned, but do you not think it's time for whitelisted groups to take some responsibility?
It takes two to tango, stop shifting the blame on newer groups for wars when it's almost always a white listed group in the war with them.
It's hard to keep a group alive and motivated. The first month or two are obviously going to be difficult, sometimes it works and sometimes it just doesn't, but at least they gave it a go and actually attempted to create some RP by starting something fresh instead of just sitting back in an already established and whitelisted group doing nothing.
As for them being banned, some of the newer non-whitelisted groups might have only joined the server recently or switched from a civ to "gangster" type character and are looking to have fun and try something new, for most it will be their first WAR / conflict so they are bound to mess up now and again, possibly shooting before they were meant to causing them to RDM because they were slightly nervous or "jumpy". Give them a chance. Tell them what they did wrong and allow them to carry on without having them banned for a month or two.
Lets take NSC for example, they came back and were around for a few months, they had some fights and conflict but overall were doing okay... but then, people started LOSING wars to them so what happens?... REPORT REPORT REPORT, now they are all gone, NSC are no more, there's 10/15 or so less people on the server, one less group all because people couldn't take an L and move on.
It takes two to tango, stop shifting the blame on newer groups for wars when it's almost always a white listed group in the war with them.
It's hard to keep a group alive and motivated. The first month or two are obviously going to be difficult, sometimes it works and sometimes it just doesn't, but at least they gave it a go and actually attempted to create some RP by starting something fresh instead of just sitting back in an already established and whitelisted group doing nothing.
As for them being banned, some of the newer non-whitelisted groups might have only joined the server recently or switched from a civ to "gangster" type character and are looking to have fun and try something new, for most it will be their first WAR / conflict so they are bound to mess up now and again, possibly shooting before they were meant to causing them to RDM because they were slightly nervous or "jumpy". Give them a chance. Tell them what they did wrong and allow them to carry on without having them banned for a month or two.
Lets take NSC for example, they came back and were around for a few months, they had some fights and conflict but overall were doing okay... but then, people started LOSING wars to them so what happens?... REPORT REPORT REPORT, now they are all gone, NSC are no more, there's 10/15 or so less people on the server, one less group all because people couldn't take an L and move on.
Tobes
Active member
- Location
- United Kingdom
I am in an affiliated group and have been in the city for a number of years yet I think this change is rubbish. I stand with the mandem and the rights of all the unaffiliated groups. This has personal made me reconsider spending any more time on RP UK. The server has a high pop of 250 these days and needs people and this change is not helping. Some of the whitelisted gangs are run by sycsophenic cringe lords and should have already been replaced a long time ago, I would never force anyone to join some of these washed groups for the sake of having 25 man numbers, I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemies. Other groups are dying and to be honest RP communities on any other game would have rolled with the flow and killed off the old and brought in the new but we have not.... If a gang gets curved stomped in PvP and they nothing else to bring to the table like a service or a deal then that's not anyone else fault but theirs that they have no relevancy, how are you not ready for attrition war to some extent after 2-3 years and subsequently just getting bullied that's actually jokes. I personally blame their leaders for running their gangs like it's north Korea or something, only thinking about themselves and not setting up their group 1st. These are the same people that rinsed bins when it was like 300k an hour for the 1st day and they did fuck all with their free wins. I have personally been doing nothing short of supplying the city with the things they need to have fun for two years now from miners & co to replacing farther's services to supplying nobles. I can tell you this change is propping up a bunch of failure no bodies. I would also like a staff to member to justify this decision without just point to one particular niche instance as I would have expected this decision to be one of the most lengthy discussed decision in the servers history. I may end up bringing this to the suggestion board to have it changed if no one else does.
Apologies for my harsh words but my intention is to call out and criticise this. Thank you for reading this.
Apologies for my harsh words but my intention is to call out and criticise this. Thank you for reading this.
- Location
- United Kingdom | Yorkshire
It's the same as anything you should work towards be able to recruit more people and get more things, if people start businesses it's the same for them. When we opened Flywheels we was not allowed just to buy mechanic kits and Repair kits we had to prove ourself that we was going to be around. then you earn things as your RP keeps going and prove your here to RP which we did and why we are in the position we are in. NON WL gangs shouldn't get everything gangs have. of course you should have less numbers than WL gangs your a non listed and should be smaller
Ollie Just
Active member
I agree that Non-WL gangs shouldnt have (in some sense) the same things WL gangs have otherwise the only thing separating them is a real turf and clothes, gus and possibly easier access to guns (which i think is still adequate), however many believe this gang cap may not be the way to go about it and exacerbates this separation.
- Location
- Viva Las Yorkshire
I'm well aware of that & the fact of having to prove yourself which is exactly what we're trying to do with S18. I completely agree that Non-WL gangs/groups shouldn't get everything WL gangs/groups have.
I'm stating that this hinders the working groups/businesses of the city but as I said in my original post, I understand why this was done in the first place & this is something we're actively working towards as a group. This just gives us yet another incentive to attempt to get WL & prove ourselves. I don't think anyone is expecting non-WL groups/gangs to just be handed everything on a silver plater. They simply need to work towards it.
The 15 member limit is there for a reason now. Working your way for more is totally justifiable & gives everyone a clear path of what they would gain should they be WL.
- Location
- United Kingdom | Yorkshire
I understand mate as i own Flywheels and we have done SO many events and constantly around to be told what i told you but that's just the way the city is, Unfortunately because we are not official Shops/Gangs, we are meant be hindered as we do and i know you to provide RP, so when we do get it they know we are to be trusted with it and not going to just disappear or go inactive, as some business and gangs do.
As you know from your time spent at Flywheels in your early days, Flywheels staff are amazing and without them we would not be where we are, the RP they provide in their services and when meet people is earning us things, The best advice i can give is just carry on what your doing, it will be noticed and is being noticed
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
given how gangs currently are (more factions within WL gangs as there are those who can RP) this is definitely a step in the right direction.
Show you can RP and be rewarded. Unfortunately, it may be too late for some of the larger gangs but making new gangs prove themselves and show they can RP rather than just ram people and shoot after 4 words is a good idea finally.
I personally believe "gangs" need a major crackdown from staff (in terms of restricting the ones who really can't RP and rewarding those who can (ie take away things from the ones recruiting people who can't RP and give them to gangs prioritising RP))
Show you can RP and be rewarded. Unfortunately, it may be too late for some of the larger gangs but making new gangs prove themselves and show they can RP rather than just ram people and shoot after 4 words is a good idea finally.
I personally believe "gangs" need a major crackdown from staff (in terms of restricting the ones who really can't RP and rewarding those who can (ie take away things from the ones recruiting people who can't RP and give them to gangs prioritising RP))
Valianted
Active member
- Location
- hospickle
ur having a laugh innit